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Author Topic: Trust No One  (Read 143096 times)
mark342
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April 08, 2013, 01:22:53 AM
 #1901

Great write-up.  Thanks!
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Unlike traditional banking where clients have only a few account numbers, with Bitcoin people can create an unlimited number of accounts (addresses). This can be used to easily track payments, and it improves anonymity.
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Manein
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April 08, 2013, 03:09:57 AM
 #1902

I wont
Zerial
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April 08, 2013, 10:56:36 AM
 #1903

I have used my Dremel multitool™ to make two small metal plates Cool I've hidden inside worthless things in my house. They contain the info on my "thick" wallet which is offline. No fire will kill that data!

At the same time, I have a small mnemonic rule (like the old always deduce 1 from the numbers), that I put my account number through.

I feel 100% safe with my bitcoins! Grin
tobobit
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April 08, 2013, 10:57:01 AM
 #1904

sometimes I don't trust myself
VishwaJay
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April 08, 2013, 11:15:05 AM
 #1905

One of the best things about the Bitcoin is that it gives all the responsibility over to the individual, for better or worse, the most secure way to store your bitcoins is NOT using online wallets

I like the individual responsibility, but ultimately the security boils down to the software used. While I agree in principle that "online wallets" should not be inherently trusted, there is trust built over time for anything that doesn't get violated on a regular basis. We want to feel secure, and we want to believe in unicornfairies, but in reality the only security we have is when we ourselves simply stop worrying so much about who to trust and worry more about why we should or shouldn't trust them.

Lots of people trust me who have no reason to, simply for the fact that I'm clergy. But ask the children who have been molested how much they trust a clergy person, and you'll see a lot of reasons why not to do it. But ultimately, the chances of this happening are low (most people become clergy for the sake of helping others, rather than for any kind of power trip, generally speaking), and so trust is issued, whether or not it's wise to do so.

I think some of the advice given here is good as general guidelines. But the unconfirmed amount can show in your wallet very quickly, and it doesn't honestly take that long to confirm. If we treat BTC as an investment currency instead of a day-to-day transaction currency (something that businesses can use with other businesses and with investors, etc., instead of something we should spend at the store to buy groceries), then the power of it makes a lot more sense in that context.

You build trust by making transactions. You don't start with it.

My opinions represent only my own views... most of the time. Sometimes I argue because I can.
OversightNL
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April 08, 2013, 11:23:13 AM
 #1906

Trust in yourself Smiley
Keimoasd
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April 08, 2013, 11:55:04 AM
 #1907

I have never trusted no one.
tomnavratil
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April 08, 2013, 12:16:30 PM
 #1908

what is the best way to purchase bitcoins?

if i send $ to mt gox can it remain in mt gox as $, or does it automaticaly get converted to bitcoins?

Hi, that's what I'm doing. The $ at MtGox won't be transferred automatically but you will have them in your wallet and then you choose how you get bitcoins and how much through them  Smiley.
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April 08, 2013, 12:22:56 PM
 #1909

Good advise. THX!

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April 08, 2013, 01:09:19 PM
 #1910

Good
rottenchris
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April 08, 2013, 02:00:00 PM
 #1911

Great advise!
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April 08, 2013, 03:18:35 PM
 #1912

Thanks for the heads up!
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April 08, 2013, 03:57:33 PM
 #1913

so much help.
dorei
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April 08, 2013, 06:09:01 PM
 #1914

Being a paranoid doesn't mean that they are not really after your coins  Cool

In Satoshi we trust
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April 08, 2013, 09:39:29 PM
 #1915

Thanks.
Testarossa
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April 09, 2013, 12:20:06 AM
 #1916

1st thing they learn you if you study economics: trust noone with you're money
2nd thing they learn you if you study economics: the market has no ethics



Seriously. Don't trust the exchanges, don't trust online wallet services, don't trust your anti-virus software, and don't trust anybody online.

If you absolutely must trust someone with your bitcoins, for the love, choose carefully!

  • Do you know their full name?
  • Do you know where they are located?
  • Have they demonstrated trustworthiness in the past?
  • Are they asking you to trust them? (red flag)
  • Do they have insurance?

Insurance? Impossible, you say. Not so!

When I needed people to trust me to hold bitcoins for a contest, I deposited 50 bitcoins as a bond with a well-respected forum member, so that even if I did something stupid and lost people's money, they would still be reimbursed. You can read about it here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10008.0

Consider carefully who you will trust. With bitcoins, elaborate scams may be profitable. For instance, someone may develop trust for their user name over many months with small transactions on this forum, then take advantage of that trust to make off with a lot of money. Such a scam would only be worth doing on this forum. No other forum in the world would be worth the effort.

If you want someone to hold your bitcoins for you, there are NO online services that have the transparency and security to make me comfortable using them for storing bitcoins for more than a short time in small amounts. The only way to do it is like I did - choose someone whom you believe to be trustworthy, and approach them. If they approach you, or in any way say or insinuate that they are a trustworthy person to hold your coins, STAY AWAY.

If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.

If you want to store your bitcoins with maximum security, there are lots of resources about how to do it, such as this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet

Here's my summary:

1. Put all your coins in a new wallet that has never connected to the network
2. Encrypt that wallet with the maximum security you can find, using the most secure password you can keep track of
3. Delete the plaintext wallet, and distribute the encrypted wallet to every piece of physical media you own, store it online, and send it to several people you trust

Don't think you can generate and remember a secure enough password? Create a super-long password, and store clues to help you remember it. For instance, your password clue file might say:

My standard password + My throwaway password (backwards, all caps) + &#$%@ + First two sentences of first paragraph of page 19 of my favorite book (include all capitalization and punctuation) + My wife's mother's middle name + My son's favorite superhero + My favorite number times 8734 + food my wife hates (backwards, all caps) + 9-digit number stored with my paper will + 10-character password stored in my safety deposit box + . . . .

You can go on in this way to create as long a password as you want. Store this password clue file with your encrypted wallet, and optionally encrypt both with a simple standard password to keep out snoopers.

In this way, not only can you recover your coins from your "savings account" at a later date, if you get hit by a chicken truck tomorrow and die, your loved ones can probably piece together your password and recover the coins too (better make sure you trust them, and that between them they have or can get the answers to those clues).

I recommend that you practice your wallet encryption and recovery a few times with a small number of coins, until you are very comfortable with the process before you try it with the bulk of your savings.

And remember, this is how most bitcoins services get started:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgm4poF3JWE/TgsHwby-BlI/AAAAAAAADwQ/twan94HT6p4/020.jpg

Comic from: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=13903.0
GoldBitco.in
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April 09, 2013, 12:28:51 AM
 #1917

Solid advice.  Thanks!

GoldBitco.in - Buy Gold & Silver with Bitcoin  - www.goldbitco.in (http://www.goldbitco.in/store)
nfurno
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April 09, 2013, 01:10:14 AM
 #1918

Seriously. Don't trust the exchanges, don't trust online wallet services, don't trust your anti-virus software, and don't trust anybody online.

If you absolutely must trust someone with your bitcoins, for the love, choose carefully!

  • Do you know their full name?
  • Do you know where they are located?
  • Have they demonstrated trustworthiness in the past?
  • Are they asking you to trust them? (red flag)
  • Do they have insurance?

Insurance? Impossible, you say. Not so!

When I needed people to trust me to hold bitcoins for a contest, I deposited 50 bitcoins as a bond with a well-respected forum member, so that even if I did something stupid and lost people's money, they would still be reimbursed. You can read about it here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10008.0

Consider carefully who you will trust. With bitcoins, elaborate scams may be profitable. For instance, someone may develop trust for their user name over many months with small transactions on this forum, then take advantage of that trust to make off with a lot of money. Such a scam would only be worth doing on this forum. No other forum in the world would be worth the effort.

If you want someone to hold your bitcoins for you, there are NO online services that have the transparency and security to make me comfortable using them for storing bitcoins for more than a short time in small amounts. The only way to do it is like I did - choose someone whom you believe to be trustworthy, and approach them. If they approach you, or in any way say or insinuate that they are a trustworthy person to hold your coins, STAY AWAY.

If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.

If you want to store your bitcoins with maximum security, there are lots of resources about how to do it, such as this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet

Here's my summary:

1. Put all your coins in a new wallet that has never connected to the network
2. Encrypt that wallet with the maximum security you can find, using the most secure password you can keep track of
3. Delete the plaintext wallet, and distribute the encrypted wallet to every piece of physical media you own, store it online, and send it to several people you trust

Don't think you can generate and remember a secure enough password? Create a super-long password, and store clues to help you remember it. For instance, your password clue file might say:

My standard password + My throwaway password (backwards, all caps) + &#$%@ + First two sentences of first paragraph of page 19 of my favorite book (include all capitalization and punctuation) + My wife's mother's middle name + My son's favorite superhero + My favorite number times 8734 + food my wife hates (backwards, all caps) + 9-digit number stored with my paper will + 10-character password stored in my safety deposit box + . . . .

You can go on in this way to create as long a password as you want. Store this password clue file with your encrypted wallet, and optionally encrypt both with a simple standard password to keep out snoopers.

In this way, not only can you recover your coins from your "savings account" at a later date, if you get hit by a chicken truck tomorrow and die, your loved ones can probably piece together your password and recover the coins too (better make sure you trust them, and that between them they have or can get the answers to those clues).

I recommend that you practice your wallet encryption and recovery a few times with a small number of coins, until you are very comfortable with the process before you try it with the bulk of your savings.

And remember, this is how most bitcoins services get started:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgm4poF3JWE/TgsHwby-BlI/AAAAAAAADwQ/twan94HT6p4/020.jpg

Comic from: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=13903.0

Totally agree, never send btc you can't stand to lose.
ruecanonrails
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April 09, 2013, 01:33:36 AM
 #1919

The truth is out there.

Trust no one.


Thought this would have been somewhat common knowledge, read into everything you do. Don't keep your money in banks, keep it under you mattress protected it with your shotgun.
ventrabit
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April 09, 2013, 03:02:40 AM
 #1920

I get it but you need to have some trust when a noob otherwise one would just sit and wonder.

The best way to learn is to play and to play you must trust. If you don't want to call it trust call it a gamble.

Example: I don't trust you at blah.com but I will take a gamble and hopefully develop trust and get to know you/system.

BUT the rule with gambling is the same as investing is do not gamble/invest more than you can afford to lose.

I've trusted/gambled for 18 months and wow am I happy I did.
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