NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[opticalcarrier]

james, just chill man.  please.  you have lots of good ideas, unfortunately, just as you cannot implement them all yourself, neither can the most of us.  I dont know about you guys but NXT is one of my 'hobbies' - they are supposed to be fun.  If it gets to the point where its not, then maybe you do need to reevaluate though.  chill dude, and try to get some perspective here.  yes there is lots to do but there is lots of time.  just deal with the decentralized nature of the beast.

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[bidji29]

yeah jl777, this thread is too big and too fast to be able to efficiently concentrate on your big wall of text.
They are valuable but probably not posted on the good place.


I think this thread is cool to read and I like to read it. And i would like it to stay as the a common thread.
But honestly, it's not the best place to make NXT move forward.
Here, everything is diluted, so we are talking more lightly. But very serious talk that need lot of brainpower have to take place elsewhere

[salsacz]

Ricky: It is 37 days since McJavar collected 15k Nxt to the Berlin conf so I was hoping he will organize at least something. He did nothing and decided he probably won't go there, so he is sitting on his 15k now. There will be 4 guys - bitventurer lorrie and me + admiral.fu, but he will also be attending sessions. Other stuff is on nextcoin and in 3 hours I am leaving to Prague so good night now

[ferment]

node17.nxtbase.com      node17.nxtbase.com      7'000      96 B      453 B      NRS (0.4.9e) @ 22k

Did this person leave nxt in the closet and only coming back in one years time to see the price change?  

That one had a config hang up. Fixed and all nodes upgrading to 0.6.2.

[Zahlen]

By the way, the community has made it loud and clear that it does NOT want my ideas unless I have a totally vetted and complete solution. Since I was posting ideas to help get them vetted and complete, that means I do not see how I can directly help the NXT community at this point. It seems there is no perceived value in coming up with ideas, even ones that allow us to compete effectively with etherium, and no perceived value in being a project manager.

Hey man, don't become discouraged.

You generate a lot of ideas.  My suggestion is to keep a personal journal of your ideas.  As they become more fleshed out, post about one of the more mature ideas here or in the wiki.  This will allow people to concentrate on a single strong idea at a time rather than be overwhelmed with many vaguely defined ideas at once.

You do good work, and if you keep the focus narrow I think people will be more willing to contribute with you.

Yeah. The community HASN'T made it loud and clear that they don't want your ideas. It's the information overload that they don't want. You generate a lot of information, which is a good thing, it just needs to be better managed. We also all need better tools to help us manage that, the wiki could be such a tool, until salsa finishes his platform.

[Bitventurer]

updates from mastercoin: http://blog.mastercoin.org/2014/02/06/development-update-5-ready-set-dex-and-innovative-bounties/

[^[GS]^]

Maybe there is hope for the raspberry owners after all... let's see what they report.

whats the point if no API for forging?

But you can still unlock your account from the browser and forge, right? And when we decide to remove the web interface, I will add an unlock account API, and also I hope somebody comes up with an alternative web interface by that time too.

There API to forge, only that it is not known.

0.7.2 is more acceptable!


there are any complications known if used in VPS?

[lophie]

But the whole point is isolation of private keys!. Ok I will just give away my implementation idea here to explain, So basically the exchange market is 100% cold because it doesn't even hold pre-generated address pool to assign to users. It only holds a single master public key. Whenever a user asks for thier deposit address a single invocation of addrGen(MPubK, userid) would always generate instantly the same address (Note that there is no private keys involved here!), On the secure super duper server that does not directly communicate to the exchange the coins can be spent by addrPrivGen(MPrivk, userid) <-(Not that addrPrivGen takes significantly more time since you actually have to generate from 1 up to userid number of private keys, but that private key will be able to spend the coins in that address).

The dangers of exposing MPK are only limited to expose all possible public keys in the sequence.

Note that this idea is DONE bitcoin side... with oh many new ideas coming this way

Ahhh, so u want it for cold wallet, now everything is clear. (you should have started, that user won't have access to priv key )

But As I've written:

I was thinking more about it, and it wouldn't be as straightforward as I thought, mainly because curve25519 is not bijective.
(But it would still be partially doable...)

Funny thing, I was thinking about making escrow for NXT, but haven't thought about MPK

I need to think about it, but I think that on super-duper secure server, you'd have to do check first, as there's chance, that addrGen(MPubK, userid) would generate key, that does NOT have corresponding private key... (curve25519(priv, basepoint)-> public is not surjective)

Yes I think now we are thinking about the same thing! Of course we will do alot of sampling but in BIP0032 there was math reasoning behind this and G. Maxwell actually to an extend, understood the mathimaticts behind it and why it work. I am way not there but I am learning everyday. Since you guys were discussing the curve I thought you can make this happen. This is the biggest sitback I have finishing up the exchange because I do not want a security breach. Basically even for a far fetched super hacker that would break into the server, There is really nothing to steal and it is damn hard to forge withdraw requests! Sanity tests, consistency test and dead man switches are all over the place. Call me paranoid but this is crypto, I would rather NOT deliver rather than a half baked product.

Also now imagine the decentralized exchanges are done and in the wild. You CANNOT automate and decentralize the gateway PERIOD, not compatible chains so that wont happen! Don't get me started  on if the gateway was for fiat!. MPK functionalities can greatly simplify an implementation for a gateway for deposits and withdrawals. When you make it faster and simpler you make the learning curve, maintaining and running a gateway or an asset exchange easier which will promote usage. Imagine a trusted Joe Nix Coiner opening something as big as havelockinvestments over a SINGLE low end desktop running in his living room! add tor, bitmesssage and other communication tools and you basically create a fully functional decentralized exchange plus gateway code that ANYONE can start and operate.

I know that is a bit far fetched broader picture but from here I see an MPK like feature playing a major rule in a good efficient implementation in many many applications. I am seriously willing to pay and I know you guys will get a kick working on something like this, So it is a win-win, and another win for all of us.

[Zahlen]

Super

big

ass

quote

pyramid.

Thanks for the comments everyone. But instead of having everyone else scroll past this o(n^2) collection of quote pyraminds (from original post, through each reply) to get through the thread, we could have an O(n) discussion in the wiki Discussion page instead.  

I've moved the convo over and added my reply: http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Proposals . See how much cleaner this is than ever-growing quote pyramids? Take a look at this and this for some idea of how a longer convo can look like and be managed.

Wikipedians have been used to (semi-)decentralized organization and article editing for years now. We could borrow the methods they use.


We can use this main thread to link to discussions we've started. The wiki has a Watchlist feature (similar to forum watchlists) to help you keep track of what's been changed (including replies to your own comments). Click the star on a page to add it to your watchlist.

James, and everyone, how does this approach sound? Shall we give it a try?


EDIT:

After that, http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/List_of_Proposals was created with the idea that maybe this could be the hub for all (your) ideas.

I didn't create it in response to James' ideas specifically, it was in response to the general mess this thread has become (c.f. the quote pyramid above that you yourself contributed to!). If you check the List of Bounties and Proposal's page history, I created it many days ago. I already had the hub in mind. I've been trying, desperately, for the past week+, to get people to try other communication methods (like diaspora*). It's exhausting...

[rickyjames]

updates from mastercoin: http://blog.mastercoin.org/2014/02/06/development-update-5-ready-set-dex-and-innovative-bounties/

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.  It would go a long way to boosting NXT acceptance, adoption, and exchange price.

So...what would it take to do better at our public relations face to the public?  What is the next major milestone we could announce to the world?  

[rickyjames]

Thanks for the comments everyone. But instead of having everyone else scroll past this o(n^2) collection of quote pyraminds (from original post, through each reply) to get through the thread, we could have an O(n) discussion in the wiki Discussion page instead.  

I've moved the convo over and added my reply: http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Proposals . See how much cleaner this is than ever-growing quote pyramids? Take a look at this and this for some idea of how a longer convo can look like and be managed.

Wikipedians have been used to (semi-)decentralized organization and article editing for years now. We could borrow the methods they use.

We can use this main thread to link to discussions we've started. The wiki has a Watchlist feature (similar to forum watchlists) to help you keep track of what's been changed (including replies to your own comments). Click the star on a page to add it to your watchlist.

James, and everyone, how does this approach sound? Shall we give it a try?

EDIT:

After that, http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/List_of_Proposals was created with the idea that maybe this could be the hub for all (your) ideas.

I didn't create it in response to James' ideas specifically, it was in response to the general mess this thread has become (c.f. the quote pyramid above that you yourself contributed to!). If you check the List of Bounties and Proposal's page history, I created it many days ago. I already had the hub in mind.  I've been trying, desperately, for the past week+, to get people to try other communication methods (like diaspora*). It's exhausting...

Zahlem, I want to give your idea a chance to work because it is a good idea.  So I am going to try and use it right here, right now. 

I want to understand how the blockchain works on a detailed level.  I want to write up an interface control document (ICD) for the structure of an NXT block.  How big is an NXT  block in bytes?  How many bytes are allocated to what function?  Are there variable sized blocks depending on what is in them?  If you, yes YOU,  are reading these words and know ANY information at all on how the NXT blocks are structured, make zahlen (and me!) a happy man by posting not on this thread, but at least one single sentence (or more!) on this wiki page:

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/How_block_generation_works

Thanks!!!

[salsacz]

updates from mastercoin: http://blog.mastercoin.org/2014/02/06/development-update-5-ready-set-dex-and-innovative-bounties/

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.  It would go a long way to boosting NXT acceptance, adoption, and exchange price.

So...what would it take to do better at our public relations face to the public?  What is the next major milestone we could announce to the world?  

cannot sleap, too much weed..

I asked for a letter so we could send it to universities and businessmen https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5007480#msg5007480

Then we are working on articles, some of them are still free:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=412243.msg5009460#msg5009460
- I am finishing the text "Decentralized internet and Nxt solutions", so I hope it will get some comments from the community and them we can send it to big mainstream media and get attention from guys like Kim Dotcom or Assagne. As was said, contact with Kim is possible, but we need to show him this text first

[CIYAM]

Relax.  Don't panic.  Stay calm and carry on.

I agree with this and hope you haven't taken my criticisms too heavily James. Understand that from a "software engineering" perspective the way you think is a bit like if you approached a "structural engineer" with the following:

1) I need a foundation for a house to be built made out of steel.
Engineer says no worries - let me work out how much steel we will need - how big is the house?

2) I think that the building will need a helipad - can we have a helipad that handles up to 4 helicopters at once?
Engineer says - "building" hang on a minute I thought you said "house" - we are going to need a *lot* of steel - you don't want to use concrete also?

3) I think that the building needs to be a floating structure that will be placed into international waters - no problem with making it float?
Engineer says - I am going for a beer.

[rickyjames]

updates from mastercoin: http://blog.mastercoin.org/2014/02/06/development-update-5-ready-set-dex-and-innovative-bounties/

what would it take to do better at our public relations face?  

cannot sleap, too much weed..
- I am finishing the text "Decentralized internet and Nxt solutions", so I hope it will get some comments from the community and them we can send it to big mainstream media and get attention from guys like Kim Dotcom or Assagne. As was said, contact with Kim is possible, but we need to show him this text first

Somehow, when I asked the question of how to do better at our public relations face, I didn't think the answer would be too much weed, Kim Dotcom and Julian Assagne.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

[rickyjames]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

I understand the difference between leaders and spokespeople.  I think NXT needs spokespeople.  Preferably cute females.  Or old guys willing to make a fool of themselves in front of a crowd at the Texas Bitcoin Conference.  But with so much of the NXT Secret Plan still under wraps, it's really hard for spokespeople to know just what to say...

[2Kool4Skewl]

I see what you mean. Commodity-backed money. Hmm, will history repeat itself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6LWqgohO4E

The money should be backed by commodity and not the way is now.
The commodity is limited, planet earth is limited resources on the planet are limited
there is no space for infinite growth in economy.
Now the money is not backed by anything or only by empty promises in future.

+1

Debt as money = biggest scam on earth

[salsacz]

Sent about 20 emails/tweets to the attendants of the conf to have a talk/interview, we have business cards, thirts, flyers and probably will have stickers too. I hope it's worth of all that time spent on such things

[Voluntold]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

I understand the difference between leaders and spokespeople.  I think NXT needs spokespeople.  Preferably cute females.  Or old guys willing to make a fool of themselves in front of a crowd at the Texas Bitcoin Conference.  But with so much of the NXT Secret Plan still under wraps, it's really hard for spokespeople to know just what to say...

My wife is pretty hot. I might be able to get her to do some things. She has listened to me talk about Nxt enough that she knows just as much as I do.

[LiQio]

Too bad we don't have real world people mentioned in real world press releases like this.

Don't forget that we r decentralized. When u find such people - don't make them the leaders.

I understand the difference between leaders and spokespeople.  I think NXT needs spokespeople.  Preferably cute females.  Or old guys willing to make a fool of themselves in front of a crowd at the Texas Bitcoin Conference.  But with so much of the NXT Secret Plan still under wraps, it's really hard for spokespeople to know just what to say...

My wife is pretty hot. I might be able to get her to do some things. She has listened to me talk about Nxt enough that she knows just as much as I do.

  now it's getting interesting