NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[pinarello]

we have already the marketing doc by salsacz.

then there is the fund under administration of Rickyjames and Jl777

I will try to start a thread for other projects and bountys.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453935.new#new

[1714251191]

1714251191

[1714251191]

1714251191

[salsacz]

I don't understand how people still get excited over a new alt-coin that does not offer anything new. Apparently most people think "new" means simply switching the block time and hashing algo, and all of a sudden you have "innovation". Out of hundreds of cryptocurrencies, there are only a handful that actually offer anything new, and maxcoin is not one of them.

Although, I suppose if I had a huge collection of GPUs, I'd be excited to make $k's of cash every time a new coin came out so I could mine and dump immediately... a sobering reminder that most miners don't care if they are securing the network, only that they are lining their pockets.

Which does bring me to my point - we need to market to a slightly different demographic. Marketing to those already invest in PoW coins is an inefficient use of resources, because if they can't mine it, they are not interested. Of course there are always exceptions, but if the accusations of "nxt is pre-mined!" are any indicator, most of the complaints are in-fact from miners. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to convert those invested in bitcoin and clones (we should, and we already are with LTB), but they should not be our main focus.

We need to be attracting people who are actually interested in innovation and smart investments. This means our focus is not on the majority of the cryptocurrency crowd, but on tech and business oriented people (Forbes, IEEE, universities, etc). We just have to present NXT in a manner that is easy to understand and why it completely blows all other coins out of the water. Right now is not quite the right time, but when nexern releases his client (along with the AE), we should have a very simple to install client as well as be able to show off the power of decentralized exchanges. We should not market to raise the price of NXT, but market to recruit talent and smart investors that will contribute (and not just ride the wave) to the NXT ecosystem. The price will rise as a side effect of the cumulative contribution. NXT is the only cryptocurrency platform that allows an exponentially growing ecosystem due to BCNext's decentralized vision - the rest of the coins are limited to what their developers can put out - NXT is unlimited.

Cryptocurrency crowd + tech / money people + ?

Who is / should be our target audience? Please comment and discuss.

Just want to catch on the discussion we had this afternoon about features and target audience for nxt.

1. (Possible) Features:
- TF for instant transactions
- TF + punishment against 50% attacks (correct?)
- no bloated blockchain
- energy friendly crypto
- mobile friendly crypto
- easy to add new features
- many many TPS
- parallel blockchains
- blockchain shrinking
- decentralized exchange
- colored coins
- decentralized voting/opiniongrabber
- decentralized AM (data storage, link storage (eg torrents), encrypted messaging, ...)
- dividend payouts (all fees per block) for everyone instead of mining of the few with lots of power
- Turing capability
- smart contracts
- anonymous transactions
- SMS gateway

2.Today it was clear that the nxt community isn't sure yet, which features are the most important ones, which could be ignored in favor of other features (some exclude each other), and who the target audience is. Would it be easier if we knew plan 2 and 3 from BCNext? I don't know. But regardless of BCNext's plans, we should discuss this topic in the community: which is our target audience now, next months and in one year? Does this depend on the features we implement or does the features depend on the audience we want to tackle? The answer is clear (or is nxt just fundamental research?) That's why we should discuss this.

...

Business people, developers, entrepreneurs, academics, marketers, philosophers, etc. People who can see raw potential, and do something about it. It's not a matter of IQ, but the willingness of that person to actually positively contribute. And these efforts can be profitable, they just take more effort than sitting back and pointing your computer in a certain direction. For example, I'm not particularly smart, but I do have a few ideas that I am coordinating with a friend that hopefully will be of use when AE is implemented. I also volunteer to edit papers, articles, etc.

So basically what I am saying is that, in the short-run, we need to be focusing our marketing efforts on getting doers on-board. I think we can all agree that users right now can't do much with NXT, so marketing to the Average Joe at this time will only serve to temporarily increase the market value, but not add any real substance behind NXT. Of course, for people to make services, people have to use those services, so that's why I said we should not completely ignore this segment of the market. I don't know the ideal split of our marketing focus, but something like 75% towards doers and 25% towards users. Can you imagine if all the features on the list were completed right now? The price would be through the roof in an instant. That will be us in the future, but we need a strong community to get us there first.

My viewpoint is actually quite similar to jl777's, we should do everything because we can - we're decentralized. We just have to get more people on-board that are capable of doing these things in the first place. With all the bounties he is handing out (I lost count), we simply have to spread awareness to the correct demographics, and we'll have people interested in innovating. And the best part is that all this stuff can be developed in parallel to the main core development, so that's a huge advantage as well.

I agree, we need articles/theses/dissertations first. It would be fantastic, if you wrote a letter - an invitation to Nxt for those people -  academics, philosophers, developers, entrepreneurs... Sending the letter to 1.000 universities would be easy for me, I just need a letter

[Come-from-Beyond]

James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?

rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words

I've reached out to several Zerocoin members; Matthew Green, Ian Miers and Christina Garman.  All of which were personally referred to me by other Professors.  I did receive a response from Matthew about our initial algo review, but nothing more.  I'm not holding high hopes for getting help with Zerocoin from any of their core group.  We need to explore other options.  

The option I chose was to push forward on our own as fast as we can!

I can't recall keywords now, but AFAIK there is a way to validate encrypted transactions. U don't see who paid whom but u r able to check that coins r not created out of thin air. Such encrypted transactions require that at some step u reveal data of a particular transaction. Also u can't use multiplication of numbers (only 1 time is possible IIRC). Maybe it could be used for anonymization too? No need to "mix" coins, the goal is just to break the links between accounts.

[Anon136]

what version are we on?

[Come-from-Beyond]

what version are we on?

0.6.1

[fmiboy]

what version are we on?

0.6.1

[jl777]

James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?

rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words

I've reached out to several Zerocoin members; Matthew Green, Ian Miers and Christina Garman.  All of which were personally referred to me by other Professors.  I did receive a response from Matthew about our initial algo review, but nothing more.  I'm not holding high hopes for getting help with Zerocoin from any of their core group.  We need to explore other options.  

The option I chose was to push forward on our own as fast as we can!

We need to get someone on it asap.  Maybe we should have a bounty list somewhere, we need to post link to all open bounties easily.  The mixing solution will get at least 2Mil Nxt, that should be attractive to someone.

Just make a directed donation to NXTcommunityfund, specify NXTcash

klee has pledge 1 million NXT so far. Since I am working on NXTcash, I have to abstain from allocating any payouts to myself from any directed donations for NXTcash, somebody else will need to authorize my getting any part of NXTcommunityfund NXTcash donations.

James

P.S. Of course, anybody can make a directed donation to me whenever they want

[rickyjames]

Let's get this guy [Dr. Evil]on board, Klee is in charge of the infrastructure team, so perhaps Klee can get him on board and a good chunk of Nxt from unclaimed.

+1

Klee has been designated as the treasurer of the infrastructure team.  As treasurer he has no say on the committee's decisions of what projects to fund.  Also, the official membership of all the committees is currently an open slate.

I am a great believer in transparency, sunshine, accurate information, and inclusion.

The misunderstanding has motivated me to generate the following:  

 ********* BEGIN COMMITTEE ORGANIZATION THREAD SUMMARY THRU POST #143 (Feb 2 - Feb 7)  ************

What follows is a summary of organizational activity which has occurred during the first five days of the NXT Community Nominations To The Funding Committee (NCNTTFC) thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=445209.0 .   It was begun as a spinoff by the participants of the 1500+ page Ridiculously Long NXT Pub Crawl Thread (RLNPCT) at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.31800 (where all the kewl NXT kids hang out).

The motivation for the NCNTTFC thread is that there are currently 9M of unclaimed NXT left over from the Genesis Block that are currently under control of Come-from-Beyond.  He has stated he will destroy these unclaimed 9M NXT  funds on April 3 (by "sending them back to the Genesis Block") unless the NXT community organizes a community funding committee structure that can accept and use them for the betterment of NXT.

So far activity on this thread has had the following activity, in roughly chronological order.  If somebody thinks I have left out or misrepresented something of significance, let me know and I will come back and edit this post accordingly.

SUMMARY OF COMMITTEE MEMBER NOMINATIONS:

Jean_Luc was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture
Come_from_Beyond was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture (and later declined to serve)
Joefox was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture (later recommended by Landomata to the marketing  committee)    
rickyjames was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture (and later requested membership on the infrastructure committee)  
salsacz was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture (later recommended by Landomata to the marketing  committee)    
Nifty was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture  (later recommended by Landomata to the marketing  committee)    
Anon136 was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture (later recommended by Landomata for the tech / dev  committee)
Klee was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture
opticalcarrier was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture (later recommended by Landomata to the infrastructure committee)  
msin was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture  
pinarello was first nominated to a committee by Utopianfuture
Pouncer was first nominated to a committee by Landomata
Damelon was first nominated to a committee by Salsacz
Allwelder  was first nominated to a committee by Salsacz
Uniqueorn  was first nominated to a committee by Salsacz (later recommended by gs02xzz to the marketing  committee)  
VanBreuk was first nominated to a committee by Salsacz (and later declined to serve as unqualified)
EvilDave was first nominated to a committee by Salsacz (and later declined to serve unless truly needed)
Damelon was first nominated to a committee by Jack Needles
Passion_ltc was first nominated to a committee by Jack Needles
l8orre was first nominated to a committee by Jack Needles
jl777 was first nominated to a committee by Jack Needles (and later requested membership on the tech/dev  committee)  
buybitcoinscanada was first nominated by EvilDave (later recommended by gs02xzz to the marketing  committee)
brooklynbtc was first nominated by brooklynbtc (later recommended by Landomata to the marketing  committee)    
jefdiesel was first nominated by brooklynbtc
bitcoinpaul was first nominated by NxtChg.com (who later declined)
2Kool4Skewl was first nominated by LiQio
nexetrn was first nominated by fmiboy
smaragda was first nominated by Coinonaer  
landomata was first nominated by Coinonaer
PeercoinEnthusiast was first nominated by Coinonaer  (later recommended by gs02xzz to the marketing  committee)
Davetrouser was first nominated to a committee by Landomata (specifically, the tech / dev committee)
Wesleyh was first nominated to a committee by Landomata (specifically, the tech / dev committee)
laowai80 was first nominated to a committee by Landomata (specifically, the infrastructure committee)
ferment was first nominated to a committee by Landomata (specifically, the infrastructure committee)
Tai Zen was first nominated to a committee by Landomata (specifically, the marketing committee)
Utopianfuture was first nominated to a committee by Landomata (specifically, the marketing committee)
EmoneyRu was first nominated to a committee by EmoneyRu (specifically, the tech / dev committee)
mww was first nominated to a committee by rickyjames (specifically, the marketing committee)

Utopianfuture also received a vote of no confidence from Uniqueorn (because Uf is working on a clone)

SUMMARY OF COMMITTEE STRUCTURE PROPOSALS:

The structure for the proposed committee(s) themselves have evolved during discussion from:

a single group of 5 or 7 receiving all 9M unclaimed coins; to

two groups of 5 or 7 : marketing and development with a 6M / 3M split of unclaimed coins (assumed by NxtChg.com); to

three groups of 5 or 7: marketing / development / infrastructure with a proposed 5M / 3M / 1M of unclaimed funds (first proposed by James - jl777)

SUMMARY OF COMMITTEE TREASURER SELECTION:

Further discussion on committee structure / funding levels was shelved after the above consensus reached (primarily by no challenge to James' proposal except by Nxt.Chg).  Attention turned on selecting committee treasurers for the proposed so CfB could go ahead and transfer the unclaimed 9M NXT to them, as he has pledged to destroy them on April 3 if no accounts had been set up to receive them.  

These Treasurers will have no vote on committee decisions and will disburse finds as directed by their committees.  They exist as a safeguard to provide centralized accounting of a committee's expenditures.  They have been deemed high-trust individuals and will have sole access to their committee's funds.  Identification and verification of real-world identities has been proposed but not agree upon.

By general consensus the following committee treasurers have been selected.  Come-from-Beyond has expressed a willingness to transfer the outstanding 9M in unclaimed NXT to these individuals as soon as all committee treasury account numbers are available:

Fund: NXTmarketingfund
Treasurer: neer.g
Account: pending
Ledger: pending

Fund: NXTtechdevfund
Treasurer: Pouncer
Account: 10979837763882063
Ledger: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoE8nAOEMIa7dFFnWjRNYTM4RkhsN3dRRXFBaTBiaHc#gid=5

Fund: NXTinfrastructurefund
Treasurer: kLee
Account: 1218278327871973459
Ledger: pending

********* END COMMITTEE ORGANIZATION THREAD SUMMARY THRU POST #143 (Feb 2 - Feb 7)  ************

Above was a summary of historical activity.  What follows are my personal proposals and personal opinions based on where we are at so far in this committee organization process.

RICKYJAMES PROPOSAL 1 - All treasurers should prepare paper backup copies of their account passwords, place these in stamped postal envelopes addressed to other treasurers, and place these backup envelopes at a safe off-site location such as a bank deposit box.

Rationale: I implemented this voluntarily when designated as treasurer of the NXTcommunityfund, and my envelope is currently addressed to James / jl777.  This proposal is just plain and simple a good idea, because you never know when....

RICKYJAMES PROPOSAL 2 - The 610,019 NXT currently in NXT Marketing Account 2037401990853753795 should be voluntarily surrendered immediately by account owner (I think Salsacz) to neer.g, the Marketing Committee Treasurer.

Rationale:  NXT Marketing account transfers can be viewed at http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=2037401990853753795&offset=1&filter=1.  Spreadsheet documenting the transfers to and from this account is at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgAGADgnQcrtdHRrV3V3Z1lzOXVEMWtqdElUaEtqV1E#gid=15 .  They don't match, and in particular the spreadsheet does not meet GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles) standards.  

There have been 1,118,709 total NXT donated to the marketing account, yet it appears the spreadsheet only documents 1,012,710 NXT  being donated to NXT marketing - a difference of 105,999 NXT.  This difference between actual and recorded donations (almost a 10% shortfall) is unacceptable.  Organization of the spreadsheet only confuses rather than highlights where the NXT has gone.  Further disbursements from this account should not be made by people actively generating marketing materials and involved in marketing activities.   Auditing should be undertaken to determine where the 105,999 NXT unaccounted for by the spreadsheet has gone.

RICKYJAMES PROPOSAL 3 - Unclaimed 9M NXT should be divided equally between marketing / tech-development / infrastructure committees at 3M each

Rationale:  OK, I admit it, this is a personal plug for something I feel is important - bumping up the funding for NXT infrastructure.  In the discussion on the committee thread, this started at zero and was bumped up to 1M NXT by James to Nxt.Chg's surprise.  I think infrastructure is just as important and needs just as much funding as marketing /  further software development and here's why.  

(1) We already have a lot of newbies getting the shock of realization that PoS means low amounts of NXT aren't going to forge get-rich-quick amounts of NXT on cheap Raspberry Pis instead of expensive ASIC rigs.  
(2) Discussion on this thread is casting into doubt the ability of Raspberry Pi and smartphones to participate in NXT forging anyway as the transaction rate gets higher and the blockchain gets bigger.  
(3) We have voted to drop the NXT transaction fee by a factor of ten, which is supposed to be the main motivator and financial incentive to set up infrastructure nodes in the first place.  
(4) We are getting increasing reports from the Good Samaritans who went all-in on NXT during the December DDoS attacks and set up lots of VPNs that their expenses - especially bandwidth expenses - are WAY more than they had bargained for or can maintain as a personal commitment to NXT.  

All of these factor point towards a total rethink about what infrastructure is needed to support NXT and just how much it is going to keep it running FOREVER.  People are not being motivated by forging to add personal nodes to the network, and cheap nodes are looking more and more unlikely.  Both the infrastructure and the finances required to keep NXT going are going to end up being larger than we think now, only three months in with a tiny active network.  And yes, I admit I want to be on the infrastructure committee as a voting member and push for a 1000 TPS network (the original NXT spec!!!) if that is all possible alongside our main network.  That's more infrastructure expense, but if we succeed, it is EXACTLY what will make people sit up and notice NXT.  And send the price to the moon.


RICKYJAMES PROPOSAL 4 - Voters on funding committee nominations should not be limited to the endless Bitcointalk thread participants, but should instead be open to all nxtcoin.org forum members, with an active effort made to include them in these deliberations and consider them for committee seats.

Rationale:  This is in response to a proposal made several times by landomata in the "Funding Committee" thread :

"FINAL OPEN POLL TO PICK MEMBERS WILL TAKE PLACE ON NEXTCOIN.ORG & NXTCRYPTO.ORG.  YOU CAN SIGNUP ON EITHER NEXTCOIN or NXTCRYPTO before the poll start date BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE POSTED ON THE NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information THREAD BEFORE FEBRUARY 2nd.2014"

I (rickyjames) have a little heartburn with the implications of this, and think the committee seats (and votes for them) should be open to anybody that wants to try and get one.  The goal should be to get the people that are best for the job regardless of where they come from in the NXT community.  I believe we should not limit the pool of funding committee candidates to the relative handful of OCD ( ) people like me that endlessly surf the "Updated information" thread or as I call it,  the Ridiculously Long NXT Pub Crawl Thread (RLNPCT).  In particular I think we should allow others to join the committees in the future as new and brilliant people join NXT that haven't even heard of it yet.  We are not trying to set up an oligarchy; we want to be open to new people and new ideas as time goes on.

In that spirit, I am cross posting this post in the endless "updated info" thread, the 8-page-because-nobody-is-paying-arrention-to-it "committee nominations" thread, and a completely new post over on nxtcoin.org.  Just call me a pot-stirrer.  One who is a great believer in transparency, sunshine, accurate information, and inclusion.

And I am posting polls on my proposals above.  Please vote!!!

Rickyjames Proposal 1:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=454420

Rickyjames Proposal 2:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=454372

Rickyjames Proposal 3: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=454327

Rickyjames Proposal 4: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=454320

NXT continues to develop at an incredible pace.  If you've read this far, it's because you care about NXT.  Consider applying for a committee seat to help take it further.

NXT Community Nominations To The Funding Committee (NCNTTFC) thread :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=445209.0

[jl777]

James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?

rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words

I've reached out to several Zerocoin members; Matthew Green, Ian Miers and Christina Garman.  All of which were personally referred to me by other Professors.  I did receive a response from Matthew about our initial algo review, but nothing more.  I'm not holding high hopes for getting help with Zerocoin from any of their core group.  We need to explore other options.  

The option I chose was to push forward on our own as fast as we can!

I can't recall keywords now, but AFAIK there is a way to validate encrypted transactions. U don't see who paid whom but u r able to check that coins r not created out of thin air. Such encrypted transactions require that at some step u reveal data of a particular transaction. Also u can't use multiplication of numbers (only 1 time is possible IIRC). Maybe it could be used for anonymization too? No need to "mix" coins, the goal is just to break the links between accounts.

crosschain transactions and zeroknowledge payments

A lot of really cool tech functions revolve around very similar concepts. As soon as we solve how to implement any of these related projects, I feel that we will quickly solve the rest

[jl777]

I will present a proposal on NXT core change that will give NXT fundamentally more value and allow it to become platform for all types of new functionality. Like Internet protocol did.

First, I want to make sure I at least understand the current expected implementation of NXT VM (Turing scripts) as to what it is able to do. My understanding is that it will be able to access the "entire state of NXT blockchain", so aliases, AM, etc. anything that is in the blockchain, it can access. With the concept of externally pushing down into an AM any additional data needed, the input side for the NXT VM seems well covered.

It is the output side that I am concerned with. I believe as it stands now, it will be able to send NXT and save an AM. My proposal is based on this limitation. If this is all that NXT VM can do, it means that ANY OTHER side effect of NXT VM cannot be trustless nor decentralized.

For clarity, let's say "side effect" is to send and email. I choose this example as I assume it is possible to send an email using Java with little effort and jean-luc won't yell at me about making him do horrible things to the code. The NXT core email SMTP side effect, can generate a hash on the contents and recipient of the email and use that for TXID to be put into NXT email blockchain (or even main blockchain). The importance of something being in the blockchain is that it can be validated by all on the network. The importance of being implemented in the NXT core is that it is the only way for it to be able to be trusted.

So, using the above mechanism, any side effect that can be implemented into the NXT core can implement a decentralized and trustless solution that is controlled by the NXT VM script. However, one problem that I see is that there is no assurance that the NXT VM's output AM is going to be parsed properly and the NXT smtp invoked.

Without a way to assure a once and only once invocation of "side effect" that we can rely on being used, the power of NXT VM is limited to the self-enclosed NXT universe. On the other hand, if we can ensure that "side effects" that are supported by NXT core do in fact get executed, it opens up vast new possibilities. VAST!

I want to take it one step further by having a NXT-plugin architecture defined. There are just some things that even I wouldn't want shoved into the NXT core, let alone jean-luc! So, we need a way to ensure that such external plugins are executed once and only once (similar to double spend problem). I imagine that not all NXT nodes will have support for all external plugins, but as long as the NXT hubs (> 100 servers) can run these external plugins, then I believe it will work.

So, finally here is my attempt at utilizing TF for this as so far it has been pretty mechanical. Assuming that the vast majority of forging is done by NXT nodes with a full set of external plugins, then within a reasonable number of blocks, the plugin will get invoked. We can use TF to see how many blocks we need to wait for the first forged block that is on a node capable of executing the external plugin! This is SUPER useful, since otherwise we would need to try to invoke the plugin, wait for error and then retry. MUCH better if we minimized errors in the first place.

I hope this is close to what BCNext is looking for?

Generalizing, for any plugin functionality there needs to be a way to invoke it once and only once and a way to verify it on all other nodes. For hardcoded plugins, we avoid the whole verification process. If there is a way for the NXTcore to get a read only pointer to the memory space of the plugin code space, the NXT core can add a function to verify the hash of the code space to verify that it is still running an unmodified version since the published source code of that plugin. So, maybe we just need to memory map the plugin and find its code, hopefully not too hard to do. Verification that the plugin has not been modified goes a long way to preventing Evil Bob from changing the code that implements the plugin. If the plugin code cannot be changed and it is correlated to published source code, then maybe even skeptics can trust that the NXT plugins will always do what they are supposed to. [I avoid discussion of proper error handling within the plugin as that is specific to each plugin]

So, at the very least the hardcoded plugin will allow NXT VM to affect the world outside the NXT blockchain and this is the key to being able to implement DAC. If we can make NXT plugins secure and verifiable, then NXT will be the first platform that allows anybody to create new functionality that is decentralized and can operate without trust by simply defining a "side effect" and a way to verify the side effect was actually done. Combine this with Transparent Forging's ability to predict the future forging nodes, allows a subset of NXT infrastructure to perform the plugins work.

Needless to say, achieving the above will make NXT like the Internet was when the only thing you could do was email. Order of magnitude increase in the utility is probably a gross underestimate.

James

Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364218.msg5007726#msg5007726 will have more detailed discussion of this.

[pandaisftw]

I agree, we need articles/theses/dissertations first. It would be fantastic, if you wrote a letter - an invitation to Nxt for those people -  academics, philosophers, developers, entrepreneurs... Sending the letter to 1.000 universities would be easy for me, I just need a letter

This is a difficult task, because these people will be very intelligent as well as have limited time. So we need to present NXT in a few paragraphs that will convince even those who have no idea what cryptocurrencies are to take a look. It will need to highlight what problems NXT intends to solve, how NXT will solve them, and how the person who is reading the paper can make a meaningful contribution.

Additionally, it would have to look very "refined" (something we could print out on a pamphlet, for example) yet clearly indicate that this letter is from the NXT community as a whole.

Maybe Anon could help me with this

[chanc3r]

ind ourself that the POSSIBILITY of 1000TPS brings us to 1000TPS in a few years. If we now state "not possible", we lose one feature.

1000TPS will not even touch the sides in a few years, if NXT manages to get it right.

In the adoption of e-currency in emerging markets are light years ahead of western markets. I know its not crypto but the average citizen in the emerging market cares about the outcome not the technology and in this model crucially the bank or telco offering the service helps the person get the money back if it goes astray - when your income is $10 / day then you are very careful where you put your money.

There have until recently been just 2 african countries where this has taken off but from 2012 this phenomenon has been spreading to other countries where telco's or banks basically take away the FIAT and provide electronic tokens that can be used by dumb text phones, to move money electronically and instantly via and e-wallet and yes these phones will be around a long time. no PCs no smart phones - these countries are still toxic to these technologies.

The recent GSMA report I've seen shows at least 10 countries where adoption of this way of paying is following a hyperbolic or hockey stick trajectory. In one of these countries the transaction platform can perform around between 300-400tps and resides in Europe not Africa.

Over a day in one of the major African markets demand can go from 0tps to 500tps, this is with only around 15m active customers and the market is less than 30% penetrated in terms of retail transactions and this is only one country. Average transaction time is <10s with full confirmation (yes this includes shipping everything from Africa to Germany and back) and for small transactions the cost is ZERO.

This kind of stuff is now being trialled in India, and there the transaction volumes will be way higher than 1000tps if you break into the for retail space, but for retail unlike general P2P you need instant transactions - VISA fakes it (authorise and then clear later), the e-money platforms do it all realtime and currently the crypto currencies do not address the problem of the retailer. Although some posts from I think cfb about how to implement instant transactions is the first I've seen of a crypto solution to this problem and i would hang onto it even if its implemented later.

So I would plan for far higher than 1000tps, solve the accompanying block chain problem and make sure you can do instant transactions, unless you just want to nibble around the crumbs that VISA / Mastercard will drop - both of whom have bough e-money platform companies...

[jl777]

ind ourself that the POSSIBILITY of 1000TPS brings us to 1000TPS in a few years. If we now state "not possible", we lose one feature.

1000TPS will not even touch the sides in a few years, if NXT manages to get it right.

In the adoption of e-currency in emerging markets are light years ahead of western markets. I know its not crypto but the average citizen in the emerging market cares about the outcome not the technology and in this model crucially the bank or telco offering the service helps the person get the money back if it goes astray - when your income is $10 / day then you are very careful where you put your money.

There have until recently been just 2 african countries where this has taken off but from 2012 this phenomenon has been spreading to other countries where telco's or banks basically take away the FIAT and provide electronic tokens that can be used by dumb text phones, to move money electronically and instantly via and e-wallet and yes these phones will be around a long time. no PCs no smart phones - these countries are still toxic to these technologies.

The recent GSMA report I've seen shows at least 10 countries where adoption of this way of paying is following a hyperbolic or hockey stick trajectory. In one of these countries the transaction platform can perform around between 300-400tps and resides in Europe not Africa.

Over a day in one of the major African markets demand can go from 0tps to 500tps, this is with only around 15m active customers and the market is less than 30% penetrated in terms of retail transactions and this is only one country. Average transaction time is <10s with full confirmation (yes this includes shipping everything from Africa to Germany and back) and for small transactions the cost is ZERO.

This kind of stuff is now being trialled in India, and there the transaction volumes will be way higher than 1000tps if you break into the for retail space, but for retail unlike general P2P you need instant transactions - VISA fakes it (authorise and then clear later), the e-money platforms do it all realtime and currently the crypto currencies do not address the problem of the retailer. Although some posts from I think cfb about how to implement instant transactions is the first I've seen of a crypto solution to this problem and i would hang onto it even if its implemented later.

So I would plan for far higher than 1000tps, solve the accompanying block chain problem and make sure you can do instant transactions, unless you just want to nibble around the crumbs that VISA / Mastercard will drop - both of whom have bough e-money platform companies...

Using blockchain FIFO, we should only be bandwidth limited. Have not heard any objections to using FIFO for blockchain. That solves the giant HDD usage. binary format and adaptive max TPS will allow support of 1000TPS bursts with 100kbps.

this means in Belarus, bursts of 10000 TPS will not be a problem

James

P.S. Still waiting for feedback on blockchain FIFO, not sure why nobody does this.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I can't recall keywords now, but AFAIK there is a way to validate encrypted transactions. U don't see who paid whom but u r able to check that coins r not created out of thin air. Such encrypted transactions require that at some step u reveal data of a particular transaction. Also u can't use multiplication of numbers (only 1 time is possible IIRC). Maybe it could be used for anonymization too? No need to "mix" coins, the goal is just to break the links between accounts.

crosschain transactions and zeroknowledge payments

A lot of really cool tech functions revolve around very similar concepts. As soon as we solve how to implement any of these related projects, I feel that we will quickly solve the rest

No, that approach doesn't use Xchain transactions nor 0-knowledge.

[chanc3r]

Using blockchain FIFO, we should only be bandwidth limited. Have not heard any objections to using FIFO for blockchain. That solves the giant HDD usage. binary format and adaptive max TPS will allow support of 1000TPS bursts with 100kbps.

this means in Belarus, bursts of 10000 TPS will not be a problem

James

P.S. Still waiting for feedback on blockchain FIFO, not sure why nobody does this.

Just checked back for the previous post and this FIFO idea makes sense to me anyway. The high volume transaction systems I am talking about achieve this by DB partitioning - i.e. they keep the transactions they care about or are live in one partition and shove all the others elsewhere - this helps keep the processing speed high.

These systems can be viewed as centralised because typically multiple processing nodes are localised to a single database(block chain?) but in practice the transaction processors are all async and running in parallel sharing the DB(block chain) copy, the NXT equivalent is all transaction processors or forgers need a copy of the DB or block chain - its been highlighted in a number of posts this is not scaleable and needs fixing so FIFO or something like it to move block chain history off the transaction processors (forgers) will help.

[allwelder]

Although the Nxt Asset Exchange will be a useful addition I think that we are missing something that could be much more useful (and perhaps a "killer" addition) and that is "atomic cross-chain crypto-currency transfers" (some of you would recall I've already mentioned it).

As far as I can tell no-one has actually built such a system and also so far I can't even tell if such a transfer using TierNolan's approach (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading) has ever actually been tested (if anyone has a link that shows such a transaction having taken place then I'd be very interested to see it).

IMO this would really be a "game changer" as it could allow people to trade crypto's directly without an exchange and without risk (beyond having to wait for the "refund" problem that is necessary for TierNolan's solution in case the trade doesn't get finalised).

It wouldn't work fast enough to do "day trading" but for those not in a huge rush the promise of 100% secure transactions with only minimal blockchain fees would be pretty appealing.

What do you guys think?

this is much better than escrow.

[mcjavar]

What about securing the network by giving the nodes running with the full blockchain a higher forging chance motivating the owners to go on with the full blockchain?
Others, like the guys on a rasp or on a smartphone would use a "light" version of the blockchain (something like James proposed)

[chanc3r]

What about securing the network by giving the nodes running with the full blockchain a higher forging chance motivating the owners to go on with the full blockchain?
Others, like the guys on a rasp or on a smartphone would use a "light" version of the blockchain (something like James proposed)

If we start pruning someone needs to keep a full copy I guess so some kind of motivation would be needed to maintain this as a service to the network with associated bandwidth etc.

Phone clients should not need a block chain at all (unless someone really wants to burn battery and data bundles forging) when we have proper clients and should just access a public node with a full copy for any block chain needs.

[landomata]

ind ourself that the POSSIBILITY of 1000TPS brings us to 1000TPS in a few years. If we now state "not possible", we lose one feature.

1000TPS will not even touch the sides in a few years, if NXT manages to get it right.

In the adoption of e-currency in emerging markets are light years ahead of western markets. I know its not crypto but the average citizen in the emerging market cares about the outcome not the technology and in this model crucially the bank or telco offering the service helps the person get the money back if it goes astray - when your income is $10 / day then you are very careful where you put your money.

There have until recently been just 2 african countries where this has taken off but from 2012 this phenomenon has been spreading to other countries where telco's or banks basically take away the FIAT and provide electronic tokens that can be used by dumb text phones, to move money electronically and instantly via and e-wallet and yes these phones will be around a long time. no PCs no smart phones - these countries are still toxic to these technologies.

The recent GSMA report I've seen shows at least 10 countries where adoption of this way of paying is following a hyperbolic or hockey stick trajectory. In one of these countries the transaction platform can perform around between 300-400tps and resides in Europe not Africa.

Over a day in one of the major African markets demand can go from 0tps to 500tps, this is with only around 15m active customers and the market is less than 30% penetrated in terms of retail transactions and this is only one country. Average transaction time is <10s with full confirmation (yes this includes shipping everything from Africa to Germany and back) and for small transactions the cost is ZERO.

This kind of stuff is now being trialled in India, and there the transaction volumes will be way higher than 1000tps if you break into the for retail space, but for retail unlike general P2P you need instant transactions - VISA fakes it (authorise and then clear later), the e-money platforms do it all realtime and currently the crypto currencies do not address the problem of the retailer. Although some posts from I think cfb about how to implement instant transactions is the first I've seen of a crypto solution to this problem and i would hang onto it even if its implemented later.

So I would plan for far higher than 1000tps, solve the accompanying block chain problem and make sure you can do instant transactions, unless you just want to nibble around the crumbs that VISA / Mastercard will drop - both of whom have bough e-money platform companies...

Great analysis...because this is what is happening as we speak.

[Passion_ltc]

Because I moved to a new server NXTvote.com, nxtion.com and the AM Explorer on NXTarea.com wasn't functional for a few hours.

Now everything should work again.

If not: contact@nxtarea.com