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Author Topic: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement  (Read 381231 times)
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July 07, 2015, 11:51:31 AM
 #2041

was this a scam??
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July 07, 2015, 12:20:14 PM
 #2042

was this a scam??

Since I have inspired your nick :-))) please let me answer. It is not a scam, but it is very possible that the project goes nowhere and your money is gone in the sense of that you have no tangible ROI on your investment.

You have to see this as you have crowfunded a great project instead of you invested in a coin. Crowfund and support great techs and super talented developers is a noble thing, I think that's what we do here, and it is very common that the project of super talented developers isn't materialize.




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July 08, 2015, 03:44:15 PM
 #2043

@skycoin

Sine I know you are interested in hardware level security, I just wanted to point out this

http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/ARM/sama5.aspx?tab=overview

These type of MCUs were rare even last year, but fortunately more and more MCUs on the market with the proper security what this chip offer as well.
 
So called security experts are worried about software vulnerabilities, but as you quite rightly pointed out here several times in this thread, the most dangerous security vulnerabilities come from hardware hacks, and the only solution for that is Trust Zone. The secure boot, securing and locking the RAM is the only solution against attack on the hardware.

Apart from Trust Zone this MCU comes with built in crypto, but not only symmetric, also asymmetric crypty chip - the perfect candidate for a superduper safe wallet.

Lately I support the GadgetCoin guys at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854280.0

They are rolling out a device based on this secure chip. Why don't you team up with them and create a super safe wallet based on this chip and utilizing the ARM Trust Zone infrastructure?



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July 08, 2015, 10:07:51 PM
 #2044

Do you have any release data for the project?

I am really keen to see this comes to fruition and just can't wait :-)))

Its already been released and running for two years now. There is a link somewhere to the builds.

The only thing left is hacking together the consensus server and then its "done" as Litecoin or Bitcoin. Or Ripple.

Update:

Short update. Longer update to follow.

Server has been down for over a week. Bitmessage has not worked since the 2nd. Getting this fixed.

I am dealing with great firewall issues. Ubuntu wont update. Website load or do not load. Pings to baidu are over 50 seconds sometimes for no reason. stunnel + openvpn give me 22 ms pings and then they go to 30 seconds to 50 seconds. Packet loss rates over 20% to 50% at random.

Ubuntu refuses to update some parts of the day because of DNS poisoning. When connection is established and it works, the download speed is 200 KB/s and drops to 5 KB/s once the gfw starts throttling it.

Whole parts of the internet around Singapore are considered inside the firewall and null routed or unreachable at random. China is blocking not only traffic in China, but traffic that transits through China (which seems to change minute by minute at random). uTox will not connect or was connected and disconnecting once every minute. UDP is being blocked as soon as tox establishes connection, dropping and then reconnecting when block ends. Gmail does not work. Google Play does not work. OpenVPN does not work so connecting to corporate intranet is impossible. Connecting to IPv6 servers is impossible. Nothing works. The whole internet is broken.

The Chinese internet is like driving through Libya.

In China, half the messages being sent out for IPO are not being received. Now I know why.

When I SSH into a server, it is fast and then either drops or slows to hell or if I am lucky gets throttled down to 20 KB/s and transfers that used to take seconds take days.

Google Chrome trying to autoupdate or access gmail, sending out a DNS request can trigger the other UDP connections and SSH session for every person on your router to slow down, disconnect or timeout. There are TCP reset packets being injected into streams for no reason.

Its like driving 60 miles per hour over a dirt road covered in bomb craters.

I have wasted a larger percentage of my life over past week waiting or trying to get basic internet applications working than ever.

I am going to try MPLS or cisco netsec tomorrow because they cannot/do not block those. I have no idea why the Chinese government paid Cisco for the hardware for intentionally making the Chinese internet worse than Africa. The only VPN software that works in China is Cisco IPsec, which was designed by an NSA standards committee to allow the US to spy on foreign corporations. All of the secure VPN protocols are blocked.

They are not blocking political sites. They could have just dns nulled and ip blocked CNN. This is not even "censorship", this is harassment. They are blocking the ubuntu update servers, ssh connections and corporate VPNs (except for Ciscos). The company that sold the government the hardware is terrorizing every corporation in China into buying and installing its shitty NSA backdoor unless they want their ssh connections to drop at random.

The wikileaks cables had instance of the US bribing people to install equipment like this in their countries. In China the government forces you to back door your network for a foreign power, if you want to use the internet or access github.

I literally had scripts that would pull things from github and the scripts went through on two virtual machine and two the of the repos failed on a third virtual machine. It is impossible to automate anything because you dont know if pulling a repo from github will get throttled to 2 KB/s and take a week or if the connection will just drop and it will fail.

"go get" is broken, because the packages are on google servers. The DNS request may fail, or the connection may fail, or it may go through and then fail from an injected reset packet, or it may go through and download quickly then go to 5 KB/s and take a week because throttling kicks in and some packages are blocked.

If you try to "go get" any module that pulls in a module that pulls in a module that pulls in the golang two-fish module, it fails with a cryptic error message and the whole installation script fails. Devops automation inside of the firewall is impossible because packages and software repositories cannot be accessed reliably.

HTTP connection are a crap shot and you just sit there hitting reload until the package shows up. If the page loads slowly, its throttled, so you just keep hitting reload until you get an unthrottled HTTPS connection and the page loads.

When searching for  error message I constantly get ERR_CONNECTION_RESET, ERR_SOCKET_NOT_CONNECTED and have to reload page thirty times until it goes through.

The Chinese government forces all its corporations and every major computer installation to install Cisco hardware, just to use the internet without connections to github dropping. They are blocking open source software like OpenVPN and the internet wont even function without Cisco MPLS and ipsec.

This is not "Censorship" which would be blocking political material. The only explanation that I have for this, is that the governments employees running the program are corrupt and being bribed by Cisco or the US government. Cisco has been caught putting backdoor access, secret remote administration accounts in all of their VOIP hardware and other devices. When you lock yourself out of the device you just call support and they have database and can remote access the device. These are called "customer support backdoors". RSA security had similar back doors in all of the keyfobs used to secure servers with two-factor authentication. Cisco was also caught shipping hardware backdoors to foreign countries. The wikileaks cables show countries getting bribed into installing backdoored equipment.

In the US, this type of blocking was never tried, even when commercial interests like the MPAA/RIAA pushed for it. The government was concerned that it would spark a crypto war and force communications underground. It makes it more difficult to perform surveillance and identify protest leaders and dissents, while having no benefit.

That is exactly what we are seeing in China now.

The VPN slow downs still let you visit the New York Times, twitter and text content. They just block github repos and make doing work impossible. No one inside or outside of China has any rational explanation that holds up to scrutiny.

Another reason, could be the way the Chinese internet is structured. In other nations, the internet is decentralized and companies are peered with each other in a decentralized network. In China there are four state owned backbone companies and lower level service providers are forced to buy bandwidth from the state owned providers. They are only allowed to rent bandwidth, not own the lines and not peer in a way that would allow competition for transit.

Quote
However, different from most of the non-Chinese Internet, the Chinese government owns and controls the access routes to the
Internet, and only allows private enterprises and individuals the rental of bandwidth from state-owned entities (Herold, 2011).

This allows the state to exercise a far greater level of control over the Internet in China than elsewhere, especially in combination with the few and closely monitored connections between the Chinese and the non-Chinese Internet (see e.g. Fallows, 2008), which mean that "China is not on the Internet, it's basically an intranet" (Sherman So as quoted in Fong, 2009). The vast majority of Chinese Internet users do not access the Internet outside China (Roberts, 2011), as it is plagued – from their perspective – with frequent time-outs, very slow speeds, and content in languages other than Chinese.

China may be dropping ssh connections and vpns, just because the state telcoms are cheap, have no incentive for providing good service and are not paid for carrying traffic out of China. They are only being paid by the people at the lower tiers, who are renting transit from them, but do not get paid anything for overseas data.

They appear to just be dropping traffic and packets at random. They may be dropping packets and terminating TCP connections to avoid having to pay for international bandwidth. Also the backbone providers are in competition and refuse to peer with each other for over-seas transit, driving up cost and duplication.

The traffic blocking appears to be centered on reducing bandwidth usage and stopping people from browsing Youtube, netflix and high bandwidth applications. Chat, twitter, gmail and political content is all accessible. Cloud file syncing, sftp, high bandwidth ssh, bitmessage, peer-to-peer, github, bitmessage is the only thing that has problems.

I think the "great firewall" and packet inspection hardware has more to do with cheap ISPs trying to save money by providing African speeds for overseas traffic when they would otherwise have to pay for peerage because of asymmetrical bandwidth patterns. All of the encrypted communications protocols still work.

The choice to ban openvpn while supporting ipsec, suggests desire to ration limited bandwidth to business users. I am not even sure this is "censorship" as much as it is an attempt at not upgrading or paying for traffic leaving country. The fact that github works one minute and stops working or is blocked or dropped at another, suggests this is aggressive traffic filtering and shaping.

Anyways, this is very frustrating experience. Dealing with the firewall made me aware of new types of software unreliability I had never experienced before. Getting work done is almost impossible until I get this resolved.

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July 08, 2015, 10:14:04 PM
 #2045

Update Shirt:

- Dealing with firewall issues. Its really bad. Bitmessage has not worked in seven days and very frustrating.
- Network is down. Fixing that
- Implementing exchange (this is now high priority)
- Getting consensus from paper to working in golang
- Buying computer equipment
- Hiring people

There is a major issue with China/The Firewall/Bitmessage. Over half the ipo orders never went out. The messages were never sent or were not confirmed. Its not reliable.

I am covered in bug bites and havent slept in a while, so enough vacation and getting back to work now.

Also, this is a good example of a VPN in golang
- https://github.com/bigeagle/gohop


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July 08, 2015, 10:36:29 PM
Last edit: July 08, 2015, 10:47:18 PM by skycoin
 #2046

Well people have coins and people have wallets, I guess we could start trading even now.

Perhaps we could start asking some of the exchanges to list Skycoin, although I'm not sure how mature the wallet is (no encryption for example), and it not being a direct Bitcoin fork would require some dedication and extreme care from the exchange to implement it.

I tried to do bitmessage for IPO. It has had a lot of problems. Most of the users are in China and I tested it and I was getting similar problems to what I experienced with transaction propagation for Skycoin through China. Messages dont propagate sometimes and its frustrating.

I will do website, send out codes for the people on Bitmessage. That is best solution probably. Then have an exchange.

Skycoin can hold bitcoin in the wallet. Its the same crypto and there is bitcoin address and private key generation functions in the codebase. I have used them and they work. So it would be good to have a "send bitcoin" button that sells skycoin at current exchange rate and makes a Bitcoin payment.

There are dozens of small things like that. We are trying to hire developers to go through and do them. scrum style, small, isolated, limited scope improvements that are highly specific.

I procrastinate when cleaning up code up or having to grind through features and am better at writing new things. I also burnt out and needed vacation. It slowed down project a lot, waiting this late to hire more people who can focus on details and improvements full time.

The good news is software developers are about $2000/month here.

So the three simple goals are
- make it easier to use (easier than bitcoin)
- get consensus implemented in golang (simple)
- get exchange like litecoin had in beginning (lib-bitcoin bindings and some work)

Once those are done, then its blue sky projects. The networking aspect of project is designed, ready and I want to work on that, but should make sure the above three things are in progress before going off on tangent.

Right now, I am still trying to get through the firewall and confirm that BItmessage is working. I have not received any messages in seven days. The connection to network keeps dropping. Even with VPN, I only get 8 MB downloaded each time I open bitmessge. It goes at 500 KB/s, then connection drop until its zero and it just stops.

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July 09, 2015, 05:01:43 AM
 #2047

@skycoin

Sine I know you are interested in hardware level security, I just wanted to point out this

http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/ARM/sama5.aspx?tab=overview

These type of MCUs were rare even last year, but fortunately more and more MCUs on the market with the proper security what this chip offer as well.
 
So called security experts are worried about software vulnerabilities, but as you quite rightly pointed out here several times in this thread, the most dangerous security vulnerabilities come from hardware hacks, and the only solution for that is Trust Zone. The secure boot, securing and locking the RAM is the only solution against attack on the hardware.

Apart from Trust Zone this MCU comes with built in crypto, but not only symmetric, also asymmetric crypty chip - the perfect candidate for a superduper safe wallet.

Lately I support the GadgetCoin guys at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854280.0

They are rolling out a device based on this secure chip. Why don't you team up with them and create a super safe wallet based on this chip and utilizing the ARM Trust Zone infrastructure?





GadgetCoin is a very promising project as XTC, if skycoin can make a partnership with them, it's very cool, it's a win-win way.

Sirx: SQyHJdSRPk5WyvQ5rJpwDUHrLVSvK2ffFa
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July 09, 2015, 10:50:32 PM
 #2048

Well people have coins and people have wallets, I guess we could start trading even now.

Perhaps we could start asking some of the exchanges to list Skycoin, although I'm not sure how mature the wallet is (no encryption for example), and it not being a direct Bitcoin fork would require some dedication and extreme care from the exchange to implement it.

I tried to do bitmessage for IPO. It has had a lot of problems. Most of the users are in China and I tested it and I was getting similar problems to what I experienced with transaction propagation for Skycoin through China. Messages dont propagate sometimes and its frustrating.

I will do website, send out codes for the people on Bitmessage. That is best solution probably. Then have an exchange.

Skycoin can hold bitcoin in the wallet. Its the same crypto and there is bitcoin address and private key generation functions in the codebase. I have used them and they work. So it would be good to have a "send bitcoin" button that sells skycoin at current exchange rate and makes a Bitcoin payment.

There are dozens of small things like that. We are trying to hire developers to go through and do them. scrum style, small, isolated, limited scope improvements that are highly specific.

I procrastinate when cleaning up code up or having to grind through features and am better at writing new things. I also burnt out and needed vacation. It slowed down project a lot, waiting this late to hire more people who can focus on details and improvements full time.

The good news is software developers are about $2000/month here.

So the three simple goals are
- make it easier to use (easier than bitcoin)
- get consensus implemented in golang (simple)
- get exchange like litecoin had in beginning (lib-bitcoin bindings and some work)

Once those are done, then its blue sky projects. The networking aspect of project is designed, ready and I want to work on that, but should make sure the above three things are in progress before going off on tangent.

Right now, I am still trying to get through the firewall and confirm that BItmessage is working. I have not received any messages in seven days. The connection to network keeps dropping. Even with VPN, I only get 8 MB downloaded each time I open bitmessge. It goes at 500 KB/s, then connection drop until its zero and it just stops.

Will you disclose how much you have collected from the IPO?

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July 15, 2015, 12:26:33 AM
Last edit: April 06, 2016, 10:46:26 AM by skycoin
 #2049

The guy who often writes long long posts with also the *skycoin* account is now in china for over 3 weeks,
and frustrated by problems on internet connection through GFW.

He has suspended all the work on the skycoin project since he arrived at china.

Hope he will come back soon with the GFW problem resolved.

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July 15, 2015, 02:40:03 AM
 #2050

Don't let him do more of those conspiracy theorists posts.

That just makes you all look like a bunch of conspiracy foil hat wearers.

Just post what you are doing, the tech looks interesting but those posts, damn wow.
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July 15, 2015, 07:50:08 AM
 #2051

I have found the "conspiracy posts" very informative. I have suspected such activity all along and the Snowden revelations confirmed a lot of it. The details on hardware vulnerabilities mentioned were especially enlightening. As Bitcoin becomes increasingly mainstreamed and co-opted by the existing financial system, the idealists who were the early adopters will be looking to transfer their value and migrate to other blockchains. Skycoin is a prime candidate for this if it succeeds in meeting its objectives.

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July 15, 2015, 02:19:43 PM
 #2052

Don't let him do more of those conspiracy theorists posts.

That just makes you all look like a bunch of conspiracy foil hat wearers.

Just post what you are doing, the tech looks interesting but those posts, damn wow.

Yeap, tired of conspiracy

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July 16, 2015, 10:22:09 AM
 #2053

50ent_rapper .. these bullshit conspiracy stories are just jokes or have the function to cover up the real conspiracies
seriously how naive you are
you find xkeyscore is just a children toy?
hacking team is just a webdesign company?
US want to bring peace and democracy?
it's absolutely necessary to enlighten the truth going on
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July 16, 2015, 10:40:28 AM
 #2054

windows binary of the skycoin wallet is available again.

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July 16, 2015, 11:06:51 AM
Last edit: July 16, 2015, 11:21:27 AM by altcoinUK
 #2055

windows binary of the skycoin wallet is available again.

What about my question at the previous page regarding the funds you collected? At least are you going to disclose how much you collected total from the ICO/IPO, so we would know where the project is never mind plans regarding how you would use the collected fund. I hope it is not unreasonable to ask this. However impressive your technical skill is and regardless how entertaining your post are because they are quality and entertaining materials, some report on the collected funds should be the part of the business as well, isn't it?


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July 16, 2015, 12:02:15 PM
 #2056

windows binary of the skycoin wallet is available again.

What about my question at the previous page regarding the funds you collected? At least are you going to disclose how much you collected total from the ICO/IPO, so we would know where the project is never mind plans regarding how you would use the collected fund. I hope it is not unreasonable to ask this. However impressive your technical skill is and regardless how entertaining your post are because they are quality and entertaining materials, some report on the collected funds should be the part of the business as well, isn't it?




Wait for the guy always writing long long posts :-)

I am the guy developing the consensus algorithm, so I post the phase II consensus paper,
and the windows binary is also built by me, so I post the update on it.
I don't touch the fund thing.

So, be patient until he shows up.

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July 16, 2015, 12:27:41 PM
 #2057

windows binary of the skycoin wallet is available again.

What about my question at the previous page regarding the funds you collected? At least are you going to disclose how much you collected total from the ICO/IPO, so we would know where the project is never mind plans regarding how you would use the collected fund. I hope it is not unreasonable to ask this. However impressive your technical skill is and regardless how entertaining your post are because they are quality and entertaining materials, some report on the collected funds should be the part of the business as well, isn't it?




Wait for the guy always writing long long posts :-)

I am the guy developing the consensus algorithm, so I post the phase II consensus paper,
and the windows binary is also built by me, so I post the update on it.
I don't touch the fund thing.

So, be patient until he shows up.

Guys, I am a big fun of your tech and a long time supporter of yours, and I would really be happy to see your technology will be available for the digital currency community that's why I am supporting you, but this is getting confusing.

Right now there are two guys.

The guy with the money is somewhere else, all we know he is certainly not here to update the community.

The guy who knows nothing about the money is here, telling us that he is not the main guy even he is having full access to the skycoin nick and account.

In the meantime, - when you are having this rather amateurish operation in place in which apparently random guys handling random things in random order -  you are concerned about large scale political, philosophical and macro economical issues and having the ambition to change the world's internet infrastructure just to mention one item from your long TODO list. I mean, if you are handling the operation like this and if so far you have not felt it is important to update the community regarding to the handling of the collected funds, so if you are not handling basic tasks properly then how this project will be exactly completed?

Being familiar with hardware and low level software design I was a getting a bit concerned when skycoin was banging on the hardware issues without considering basic design principles such as for instance using Trust Zone to secure hardware, and I was wondering why he was talking about topics which he has no idea whatsoever, but now I am concerned about the whole operation and the future of the project. How it's going to be completed handling things like this?


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July 17, 2015, 08:58:57 PM
 #2058

Update:

It is Friday night and I am chained to the computer fixing all the things.

I have spent the last week probing the Chinese firewall. Rather long post about this.

I VPN is working now. I had to tunnel through server in China that is on a business line and then tunnel out over business line to another country. I now have 8 MB/s out of country reliably. To get good speed out of the country, you need a multi-hop VPN or a MPLS installation.

The Skycoin network is back up. I did some diagnostics. Blockchain download is 2 seconds and 20 blocks every 300 ms, in USA and France. In China twenty blocks are downloaded and then the connection drops or slows down.

A few Skycoin nodes were added in Singapore to improve performance and avoid stalled transactions. In France over VPN transactions are announced and echoed by six servers. In China that number is two. Will add a server in Tokyo also. Connections to Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo are less throttled and less likely to have connection dropped/blocked than traffic going to Europe and USA.

The Chinese internet is completely screwed up. Using http://ping.chinaz.com/ you can show that Beijing to Singapore goes through very fast, but on China Telecom, Shanghai to Singapore traffic is just dropped or times out completely.

When server blocks, Skycoin blacklists the IP for an hour. Networking and the peer-list handling needs to be completely redesigned, to allow users to add preferred peers through the interface and to use exponential backoff and to only share peers they have succeed in establishing an incoming connection to and which have been active recently.

There is bug in windows client, where the blockchain is not saving on close. Fixing this. There was an earlier fix for this, that added periodic saving of the blockchain to disc and not just on close, but the commit was lost.

I setup shadowsocks server in Singapore and used it as SOCKS5 proxy for bitmessage. I have received IPO message confirmations for bitmessages sent out three months ago! Before, only half of the the messages being sent out, were being confirmed. Now only 1/4th of the IPO bitmessages are unconfirmed. Singapore and Tokyo seem to be only bridge between China and rest of world for Bitmessage.

Running bitmessage through Singapore seems to allow Bitmessage to work reliably for receiving/sending to China. I am trying to get incoming connections to work over bitmessage with SOCK5 proxy, but not sure if that is possible.

Chinese Firewall:

The Chinese "firewall" is not actually about censorship. China Telecom has to pay for overseas traffic, but does not receive any money for it, so they do everything they can to just drop packets for overseas traffic. If they detect you accessing Youtube, they drop your packets. If they detect you downloading a PDF from overseas, they drop your packets. If they detect you using bitorrent to overseas, they drop your packets. If they detect you making DNS requests for overseas website, they will do DNS injection/poisoning attack on your request to stop you from getting IP address of the server before the connection attempt is even established. They put all the residential traffic overseas onto a very thin, over subscribed pipe and indiscriminately drop traffic.

If you are foreigner or government official you pay them 50 to 200 yuan per month and they give you "VIP internet" and put "VIP" in front of your username and they stop dropping your packets. Your overseas bandwidth goes from 4 kB/s to 800 kB/s, The packet drop rate is just congestion and an ISP dropping unprofitable traffic. Business and premium users are on a different line and get over  20 Mb/s and their packets are not dropped.

This seems to be part of a China Telecom bussiness strategy. If you want to get access to China Telecom users, you have to pay China Telecom to co-locate your servers on their backbone. Or they will drop your traffic. They are even trying to cut peering connections and degrade traffic, the same way that Comcast degraded Netflix performance by cutting cables, to force Netflix to pay Comcast for access to its subscribers.

The most difficult part about circumventing the "firewall" is the VPN TUN adapter and I have the golang code for that now. More on this later.

Bitmessage Problems:

I was getting this problem before, but with bitmessage from Singapore server through SOCKS5 proxy, it seems to have gone away. All of the messages should be replicated peer-to-peer between all bitmessage nodes. The messages should arrive as long as there is a single connection out of China and yet we dont see that. People are reporting that messages take days to arrive.



In Skycoin, when operating in peer-to-peer mode, when the firewall blocks a connection to an overseas skycoin node it is a time out and the peer gets banned for 60 minutes. All of the Chinese peers end up with only Chinese peers and it fails. Bitmessage keeps a list of 8 peers and the peers overseas get throttled or fall out until only peers on the intranet are left.

When I connected bitmessage through the singapore SOCK5 proxy, messages started confirming that had not confirmed in months. The internet is just broken. I dont understand how this is even possible.

Right now, only China is firewalled and ran as an intranet. There is the Chinese internet and then real internet (the global internet). Soon there will be the Brazillian internet, the Russian internet, the Chinese internet and there may not be a global internet anymore. The network fragmentation and internet balkanization appears to be accelerating.

IPO:

0.5% or 500,000 out of 10,000,000 coins have been distributed. I think the issues with Bitmessage for Chinese users are almost resolved. Messages are coming in, within a few minutes now.

2% distribution before floating the price on an exchange is good target, but may be as high as 4% depending on how much money we end up spending.

coinspeed
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July 19, 2015, 08:22:05 AM
 #2059

Hi Skycoin, 500k is actually 5% of 10m.  Wink

bubbletea789
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July 19, 2015, 10:58:33 AM
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Hi Skycoin, 500k is actually 5% of 10m.  Wink
i think he meant to say 500k being 0.5% of 100,000,000 (which is total skycoin supply).
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