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Author Topic: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement  (Read 381231 times)
skycoin
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September 13, 2015, 11:27:30 AM
 #2141

Development Update:

The exchange is in progress. As soon as the bitcoin/skycoin withdrawals/deposits are done, then it will take a few hours to get order book working.

I cannot wait for the order processing to be automated and to have some liquidity. Application developers will like this exchange and its API. It is very modular.

Windows Builds:

The maintainer for the windows build slipped their fingers and actually deleted the virtual machine for doing the builds. Figuring out a permanent solution for the window builds. Maybe cross compilation with cgo dependencies will work with go 1.5 finally. There is also now a candidate golang implementation of secp256k1 that we could try to get rid of the cgo dependency.

Meshnet:

I am simplified the mesh networking node. I realized that cryptographically signed peer-to-peer message replication is at a higher level than the base routing. I am now doing a dumb ATM type base layer with variable frame sizes and then moving all the logic into the control plane over something like XMPP. I found a stripped alternative to XMPP with everything torn out, that will be good for the router node control plane.

It is called ssmp and can do a million messages a second in benchmark and is very stripped down and has a golang implementation
- https://github.com/aerofs/ssmp
- https://github.com/aerofs/lipwig

It is basicly IRC or AIM/messenging. This is also the protocol that I am standardizing the exchange and miscellaneous skycoin RPCs over.

Networking architecture for the meshnet/dark is complicate and very difficult to get right.
- there are computers
- there is the node, the program/daemon running on the computer
- there is one or more networking interface (physical networking cards, wifi dongles)
- each interface has one or more connections to other nodes (routes)
- each route is transferring messages for one or more paths (multi-segment source to destination packet forwarding)
- within the routes there is a frame, which contains one or more messages
- within the frame there are messages

Then that is just the base layer. You have to do route discovery, announcing routes, path setup, message confirmation, payment settlement and other discrete tasks. That is just the base layer and there are networking layers we need to build up on top of that.

Its been almost two years of prototyping and  thinking of how to structure this and simplify it and what the requirements are and what the best way to implement this will be. I am very happy with result so far.

There are other issues like presenting it as a gui and letting users interact and control it and what the unit operations are for user interaction. That is going to be very important. Not everything can be automated and some things requires human judgement and the ability for people to fiddle with it.

The resulting networking stack is god tier.

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September 14, 2015, 10:55:35 PM
 #2142

Update:

I found a paper from 1989 from Xerox-PARC on epidemic algorithms for database replication, which outlines something very similar to the Skycoin consensus algorithm.

There are a lot of papers like this appearing arxiv.org/pdf/1502.00802.pdf

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September 16, 2015, 07:19:00 AM
 #2143

Update:

I found a paper from 1989 from Xerox-PARC on epidemic algorithms for database replication, which outlines something very similar to the Skycoin consensus algorithm.

There are a lot of papers like this appearing arxiv.org/pdf/1502.00802.pdf

thanks for the updates.

looking forward to the exchange platform.
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September 19, 2015, 01:07:41 PM
Last edit: September 19, 2015, 01:20:11 PM by skycoin
 #2144

Development Update:

I simplified the lowest level of the networking. I stripped everything out.
- The mesh network protocol is now so simple that it can be operated by hand, over paper, punch cards or carrier pidgeon if the internet is destroyed and humanity loses the ability to use electricity.
- the algorithm being used is scale invariant in time. It works over milliseconds, seconds, days, months, years, centuries. The key parameters between two links is the bandwidth/latency product (the bandwidth of the link in bits/second times the latency between when a message is sent and when the confirmation of receipt is received). That defines the buffer size (which is bounded and finite) for the connection between two nodes.
- The simpler, human readable version actually works better
- The network allows for directed, one way communication paths between nodes. It does not assume two way communication at the link layer.
- With a network with three layers of protocols, the message is guaranteed to get through eventually (even decades or centuries later) as long as the nodes do not end up on two disjoint subgraphs of the graph of transitive closure of the layer 1 connection graph.
- the routing can be done, by hand, by a human, using file cards and an double entry accounting table. The most difficult operation is keeping lists sorted for log N lookup.
- operating over punch cards is immune to the NSA
- If the internet goes down and there is no longer a blockchain, the system of debits and credits still functions by hand.
- Transactions can be still be processed and peer-to-peer replicated by hand if each node can do SHA256 and secp256k1 signature verification
- if the internet goes down and there is no electricity, transactions can still be processed by hand and it is guaranteed to be conflict free as long as each node in the network can agree on a hierarchical embedding.

The graph of nodes and communication pathways at link-layer is a directed graph
The graph of connections is a directed acrylic graph.
The graph of transactions is a directed bipartite graph, with each node A being transactions and node B being outputs. There is an arrow from A to B if transaction A creates output B (if output B is created by the execution of transaction A). There is an arrow from output B, if A is an input to transaction B.
If each node in the communication graph designates one or more other nodes as "superior" or "trusted" and that graph is hierarchical or at-least acyclic, then  there is a message passing algorithm on that graph, that uniquely determines a total or partial ordering of the transactions in less than log(n)^2 ticks,  in the depth of the graph, assuming each node broadcasts one message per tick.

We may not need a blockchain anymore and all the research and benchmarks we did may turn out to be pointless.

For a closed set of nodes, where every node in the network is known, we do not need a blockchain. The only purpose of the blockchain is to create a partial or total ordering of the transactions.

I am looking to see if there is a decentralized way of stably assigning each node in a directed graph an integer or hash, that would lead to a natural partial or total ordering of the nodes. This problem seems very similar to the secure decentralized coin flipping protocol. I am still doing research on this.

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September 20, 2015, 04:38:44 AM
 #2145

I enjoy every post here. A real treat...

I'm now a free man, travelling the Philippines.
As OP suggested, I abandoned the attempts to free others from their dogmatic reasoning, and just freed myself from the state's grab and monitoring.

Being in a western country, it's hard to grasp the essential need of a meshnet, bcs everyone has broadband...
But over here, things become clearer.
I surf through mobile internet. I brought a "no limit" monthly package.
After less than a day i received an SMS saying that I exceeded the allocated bandwidth, and in order to maintain quality service for everyone they are limiting my bandwidth to surfing only.
the result- i now have 20k/s... for all my devices (phones, laptops, and kids' tablet).

Apart from those living in the big3 cities here, all the people in this island are scattered along the beach, in what seems like one long long "street".
The distance from one 'house' (actually a hut) to the next is ~15m.
A meshnet here would be so valuable for development, information and communication.
~50% of people here have old smartphones running some Android version.
Practically no-one has computers at home.
Practically no-one knows what crypto/Bitcoin is.

I'm going to visit a new kids' youth-club today run by 2 European volunteers that live here. They just received 2 PCs running Win NT. No internet connection there  Sad

Only when one comes to these places, one can grasp the real leap in infrastructure of money, assets, communication and computation that crypto, meshnets, decentralized exchanges, distributed cloud and computing can bring.

Back home, no-one really understood my concern of privacy; no-one understood why to convert bank money to crypto; no-one really understood what good are crypto bcs they all have credit-cards. No-one really needed a decentralized-distributed computer bcs everyone had their own computer and as much storage and they wanted.

When things will become as easy as Plug-n-Play & priced off-the-shelf, these 3rd world regions will be the driver of growth and adoption.
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September 21, 2015, 03:39:57 PM
 #2146

Development Update:

We may not need a blockchain anymore and all the research and benchmarks we did may turn out to be pointless.

For a closed set of nodes, where every node in the network is known, we do not need a blockchain. The only purpose of the blockchain is to create a partial or total ordering of the transactions.

I am looking to see if there is a decentralized way of stably assigning each node in a directed graph an integer or hash, that would lead to a natural partial or total ordering of the nodes. This problem seems very similar to the secure decentralized coin flipping protocol. I am still doing research on this.

So basically we don´t need skycoins anymore?Huh


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September 22, 2015, 10:18:02 AM
 #2147

nothing to do with the project.
no one cares you~

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Momimaus
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September 22, 2015, 02:24:19 PM
 #2148


You deleted my post but I think everybody wants to know that:
Will there still be skycoins if you develop your projects without blockchains?
What happens to the money, the people participating in the IPO gave you?

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September 23, 2015, 02:56:54 AM
 #2149


You deleted my post but I think everybody wants to know that:
Will there still be skycoins if you develop your projects without blockchains?
What happens to the money, the people participating in the IPO gave you?


Id say there is still a 'state' of skycoins. Just that  the dependency  of consensus  isn't on the 'longest chain' and  therefor no  chain needed except  for history of transactions. I'm sure theyll explain when they make a decision.

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September 24, 2015, 10:48:05 AM
 #2150


You deleted my post but I think everybody wants to know that:
Will there still be skycoins if you develop your projects without blockchains?
What happens to the money, the people participating in the IPO gave you?


Id say there is still a 'state' of skycoins. Just that  the dependency  of consensus  isn't on the 'longest chain' and  therefor no  chain needed except  for history of transactions. I'm sure theyll explain when they make a decision.

Yes Smiley

The "balances" will exist and be exactly the same. I am not sure if we will make the switch. The blocks are still useful and everyone understands how they work. This just means that Bitcoin is not the final evolution and there are datastructures more powerful than the blockchain.

What the blockchain is is
- a series of blocks
- each block has a list of transactions in it

The blockchain together, contains the series of transactions since genesis.

What really matters, is that series of transactions. Not the blockchain. The blockchain is just one way of doing consensus over the transactions.
- you need to know if a transaction has been executed
- you need to make sure that two transactions cannot be executed that spend the same outputs (double spending)
- you need to make sure that once a transaction is executed, that it cannot later end up unexecuted (blockchain fork, 51% attack).

Those are the three properties that are required.

Skycoin makes an advancement over bitcoin, where the transactions spend outputs and create new outputs. The outputs are discrete objects in skycoin, where as they are attached to the transactions that created them in Bitcoin.

It appears to be possible to do consensus, directly on the transactions rather than the blocks containing the transactions. You would only want to do this, if you were processing hundreds of thousands of transactions per second or there is a reason for the added complexity. Otherwise consensus on the blocks is easier.

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September 25, 2015, 02:54:27 PM
 #2151

Update:

Time is short. Cannot do long update.

There are three major things and one of them is porting crypto to golang and that looks like it will be done soon. Then I can breath sigh of relief.

We are doing too much research and admin. I want to get back to coding.

Major major breakthrough on communications channels and how to do messaging between nodes on asymmetrical connections. Very simple, very powerful. I am just going to implement this and then everyone can look at it and see why the abstraction is so powerful. This is Xerox PARC level and a new mathematical foundation for networking.

Other news, have basic outline of marketing and adaption plan. Have theories about what propelled Bitcoin's early adaption and why it stopped.

Have to raise more money soon and other overhead/admin.

We will start organizing formal meetings with community and see what resources in the community we can organize for development.

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September 26, 2015, 08:32:34 AM
Last edit: July 04, 2017, 03:05:20 PM by skycoin
 #2152

Update:

There are some improvements coming up
- deprecation of the C secp256k1 library for golang version
- dependency vendoring. Means all dependencies of skycoin will be inside of the skycoin repo, for version 1.5. Improves security, makes it so that no one can insert a back door in an upstream library
- golang almost has deterministic builds working. This will be exciting. If two people build the binary from source on different machines, they get SHA256 identical binaries. This guarantees the absence of backdoors.
- Cross compilation. Windows, OSX, Linux and ARM builds, all from same machine. Automated. This will save a lot of time. Windows builds are the most frustrating part.
- This is major milestone in terms of pain and things I want to check off. We are still waiting for golang 1.5 for some of these features.

Once it is running on a formally verified L4 linux, on a raspberry pi or ARM processor, then we will have highest level of security hardening that is currently possible.

This is an absolute and very satisfactory grade of security. There are very few components. No buffer overflows attacks and the number of components is small enough that the security model is intuitive and simple.

One of the largest problems right now, that stops Bitcoin from capturing the largest flows of money is that Bitcoin is unknowable. After "Signature Malleability" and other incidents, there was always a persistent fear of sea monsters in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

Exchange/Liquidity:

We are getting a wrapper over gocoin, that will allow us to check balances for Bitcoin addresses and inject transactions. Skycoin can already generate Bitcoin addresses and public keys.

The second generation bootstraps upon the first, so the API is simpler and legacy system can be skipped completely. It took Bitcoin two years to get over this hurdle. This is one of the four major long term milestones we need to check off.

Marketing:

Coin adaption is a process of behavior change.

- information influences beliefs and values
- beliefs and values influence behavior

Human behavior changes according to the Hegelian dielectric. Discontent creates the need for change. “Only a crisis—actual or perceived––produces real change."

The background that drove Bitcoin was ideological. Bitcoin grew out of the same discontent as the occupy movement and it was destroyed when the community was taken over, infiltrated and diverted from ideological issues to issues of mere price and what the coin price was at today. That is when Bitcoin lost the ability to covert, motivate or interest members outside of the existing community.

Bitcoin died when the movement was diverted from issues of values and goals and aspiration, to mere greed. That is when Bitcoin become controllable, inert and aimless.

Every single person who represented the ideological, aspiration or liberatory aspect of Bitcoin has been arrested, alienateded, marginalized or otherwise systematically driven out of the community, while the banal and corrupt has been promoted in power and influence.

The Bitcoin community
- is divided by idle speculation
- has had the participatory aspect of the community eliminated by mining pool centralization
- has been cut up into vertically integrated corporate fiefdoms
- is falsely divided over "512 KB blocks or 1024 KB blocks" instead of unified behind the communities goals and aspirations
- the symbols and group unifying memes have all been scrubbed from /r/bitcoin and the major communities as policies

We need to figure out what the group process for Skycoin should be, to form a powerful and effective community.

- membership
- communication channels
- goals, values, aspirations, objectives, planning organization
- the nature of the participatory element
- resources

Survivable Organization Structures:

Survivable organizations need to be resistant against network deconstruction and need to have intelligence, planning, goals and must be able to deploy resources and capacities in pursuit of those goals.

For the Skycoin community that is
- personnel
- developers
- projects
- servers, networking, storage, facilities
- intelligence, planning, goal setting
- information sharing
- communication infrastructure (collaboration), standards

We need to find the most effective structure for accomplishing the project goals and for the benefit of the community.

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September 26, 2015, 09:34:30 AM
 #2153

Hi Skycoin,

Need some help - When you open a wallet file with text editor, how do you identify the "seed" part.
Please be as precise as possible.

Thanks
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September 30, 2015, 11:59:43 AM
 #2154

Hi Skycoin,

Need some help - When you open a wallet file with text editor, how do you identify the "seed" part.
Please be as precise as possible.

Thanks

1. Open up with text editor
2. Look for "seed" : "asgsgags",
3. The thing in between the " " is the seed
4. If you do "load wallet" with that seed, then you should get get same address/private key. It will generate the whole wallet.

You should also write down the private key, if you are paranoid.

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September 30, 2015, 12:24:29 PM
Last edit: September 30, 2015, 12:36:33 PM by toThemJoy
 #2155

I vote that we rename Skycoin to Conspiracy Coin Wink
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September 30, 2015, 12:32:52 PM
 #2156

ico seems hard to do make it more simple
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September 30, 2015, 01:32:57 PM
Last edit: September 30, 2015, 01:44:18 PM by digi123
 #2157

I vote that we rename Skycoin to Conspiracy Coin Wink

Hi Skycoin, thanks for help but in the early wallets I have there is no seed in them. I have new wallets as well and can see the seed. So for some reason not sure why there is just no seed. Unless there's something else that can be done maybe I should just scrap it and start again and re apply for coins again. What do you think?

It does contain an "id" and I can't find an "id" in the new wallet files, however the "id" : "contained numbers and letters" are overall shorter than the seed in newer wallet file. The "id" is also referenced twice at the beginning and at the end of file information.



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September 30, 2015, 05:05:58 PM
 #2158

I vote that we rename Skycoin to Conspiracy Coin Wink

Hi Skycoin, thanks for help but in the early wallets I have there is no seed in them. I have new wallets as well and can see the seed. So for some reason not sure why there is just no seed. Unless there's something else that can be done maybe I should just scrap it and start again and re apply for coins again. What do you think?

It does contain an "id" and I can't find an "id" in the new wallet files, however the "id" : "contained numbers and letters" are overall shorter than the seed in newer wallet file. The "id" is also referenced twice at the beginning and at the end of file information.


Create a new wallet. Then send the coins to the new wallet.

You must have had a really early wallet. The first wallets did not have seeds.

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September 30, 2015, 06:40:39 PM
 #2159

The windows wallet not working for me am i the only one ?
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October 01, 2015, 07:32:10 AM
 #2160

I vote that we rename Skycoin to Conspiracy Coin Wink

Hi Skycoin, thanks for help but in the early wallets I have there is no seed in them. I have new wallets as well and can see the seed. So for some reason not sure why there is just no seed. Unless there's something else that can be done maybe I should just scrap it and start again and re apply for coins again. What do you think?

It does contain an "id" and I can't find an "id" in the new wallet files, however the "id" : "contained numbers and letters" are overall shorter than the seed in newer wallet file. The "id" is also referenced twice at the beginning and at the end of file information.


Create a new wallet. Then send the coins to the new wallet.

You must have had a really early wallet. The first wallets did not have seeds.

The coins you have sent me were to this old wallet address that I am unable to get working. I have not been able to receive them because skycoin wont run with this old wallet. So I have no coins to send anywhere. You will have to re send them.
This is becoming one problem after another with no end in sight.

Maybe we start all over again and I will re apply for some more coins.




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