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Author Topic: bitcoin-trader.biz  (Read 203880 times)
ranlo
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May 19, 2014, 05:17:26 PM
 #601

Some people here don't even know what a ponzi actually is. I'm going to put it simply to avoid stupid arguments, Ponzi scemes do not generate real profit; You are paid with the money of other people.

This is right on. The site says that it generates money through trading. Earning 1% in an entire day is MORE than possible. Assuming you can pull 0.25% in a single trade, that's only 4 trades. If you can pull 1% in a trade, that's even more. This is completely doable. Some days they pay out under 1% as well, so they aren't always making that much.

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May 19, 2014, 06:01:16 PM
Last edit: May 19, 2014, 06:26:42 PM by alani123
 #602

I see many people falling for the lies this website is trying to sell. In fact, if altcoin trading is done correctly, you'll earn much much more than just ~1.5% a day. Here's me doing daytrading for example


But that's a whole other subject. Let's not talk about it right now.

I actually came here to warn people. All evidence we have until now shows that bitcoin-trader is nothing more than a hyip. Want me to break that down for you? Sure.

1. No solid evidence of real profit generated from their services. Trading is a common legend among most hyips. They only claim to be generating profit from a mining pool and trading. CLAIM

2. Why do you think they would lock your money into their website? This is a common practise to make hyips live longer. They surely wouldn't want you to get in and leave with some profits after two days or so. If they were having an actual profit they would allow you to withdraw your full principal (sell your stocks etc.) at any time. Surely they wouldn't want that since deposited founds are used to pay earlier "investors".

3. They're advesrtised as as a hyip for christs sake!! http://allmonitors.net/hyip/bitcoin-trader.biz One of the most popular hyip monitor has a listing exlusively for them. Why would they pay to be advertised as a HYIP if they are not one? Does that make sense to you?

Edit1: In their about page (https://bitcoin-trader.biz/about.php) you can see in the Website References section that they're linking to http://www.shadowscripts.com/ . A company specializing on selling and programing hyip scripts. Well guess why...

Can you see what's happening with btc arbs right now? Same thing is going to happen here as well. All hyips fall eventually. They will run away with people's money again and there'll be nothing to do about it.

Take care before it's too late.

..Stake.com..   ▄████████████████████████████████████▄
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May 19, 2014, 06:13:22 PM
 #603

1. No solid evidence of real profit generated from their services. Trading is a common legend among most hyips. They only claim to be generating profit from a mining pool and trading. CLAIM

How do you suggest they prove their activity? I can ask.

2. Why do you think they would lock your money into their website? This is a common practise to make hyips live longer. They surely wouldn't want you to get in and leave with some profits after two days or so. If they were having an actual profit they would allow you to withdraw your full principal (sell your stocks etc.) at any time. Surely they wouldn't want that since deposited founds are used to pay easlier investors.

While it doesn't prove legitimity locking down funds is a common practice done by banks when giving revenues on borrowed money. And they usually lock you down for a year minimum.

3. They're advesrtised as as a hyip for christs sake!! http://allmonitors.net/hyip/bitcoin-trader.biz One of the most popular hyip monitor has a listing exlusively for them. Why would they pay to be advertised as a HYIP if they are not one? Does that make sense to you?

They are NOT paying to be listed there. Or at least they are paying no more.
Check this: https://bitcoin-trader.biz/contact.php. "We are not getting acquainted with any HYIP related service"

Can you see what's happening with btc arbs right now? Same thing is going to happen here as well. All hyips fall eventually. They will run away with people's money again and there'll be nothing to do about it.

Hard to compare them IMHO, btc arbs was a ponzi and a really bad job at doing one. The same goes for Rockwell Partners and their cocktail parties in Geneva.

Take care before it's too late.

I did, from the start Smiley
I am withdrawing money daily as it was my original plan.

Thanks for your advice though, very welcome!  Smiley

Loan request: "I need 7 BTC because We hired an archaelogist and asked him: Is there a treasure? And he said yes!"
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May 19, 2014, 07:34:44 PM
 #604

I see many people falling for the lies this website is trying to sell. In fact, if altcoin trading is done correctly, you'll earn much much more than just ~1.5% a day. Here's me doing daytrading for example


But that's a whole other subject. Let's not talk about it right now.

I actually came here to warn people. All evidence we have until now shows that bitcoin-trader is nothing more than a hyip. Want me to break that down for you? Sure.

1. No solid evidence of real profit generated from their services. Trading is a common legend among most hyips. They only claim to be generating profit from a mining pool and trading. CLAIM

2. Why do you think they would lock your money into their website? This is a common practise to make hyips live longer. They surely wouldn't want you to get in and leave with some profits after two days or so. If they were having an actual profit they would allow you to withdraw your full principal (sell your stocks etc.) at any time. Surely they wouldn't want that since deposited founds are used to pay earlier "investors".

3. They're advesrtised as as a hyip for christs sake!! http://allmonitors.net/hyip/bitcoin-trader.biz One of the most popular hyip monitor has a listing exlusively for them. Why would they pay to be advertised as a HYIP if they are not one? Does that make sense to you?

Edit1: In their about page (https://bitcoin-trader.biz/about.php) you can see in the Website References section that they're linking to http://www.shadowscripts.com/ . A company specializing on selling and programing hyip scripts. Well guess why...

Can you see what's happening with btc arbs right now? Same thing is going to happen here as well. All hyips fall eventually. They will run away with people's money again and there'll be nothing to do about it.

Take care before it's too late.

I get where you're coming from but it's really all speculation. It may be one, it may not be one. Making a claim that they are is out of line though, when there's no proof one way or the other.

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May 19, 2014, 08:26:29 PM
Last edit: May 19, 2014, 09:02:11 PM by wedgy2k
 #605

website is down error 522:connection timed out
A nice cloudflare screen displaying  Sad

Back up now

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May 19, 2014, 08:30:47 PM
 #606

website is down error 522:connection timed out
A nice cloudflare screen displaying  Sad
The website loads up fine for me.  Undecided

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May 20, 2014, 05:18:09 AM
 #607

website is down error 522:connection timed out
A nice cloudflare screen displaying  Sad

Back up now


Just-Dice and Casinobitco.in both reported that their sites were down as well due to Cloudflare issues. This is likely just part of it.

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May 20, 2014, 12:45:12 PM
 #608

fine with me as well

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May 20, 2014, 12:57:38 PM
 #609

the plot thickens...

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May 20, 2014, 04:22:21 PM
 #610

This is my first post on this forum, but I figured I'd share my experience for what it's worth. I invested $100 in February in trading shares. My 120-day period has expired, and my shares returned %107. I've cashed out my initial investment, +7% and re-invested my initial investment. I had absolutely zero problems doing so. Just to make this clear to the trolls, I've walked away with my initial investment plus 7% profit, and because of the large returns I am still able to keep my initial investment amount invested and making returns.

I also have no made a single dime from referrals, since I'm not comfortable referring my friends and family to something like this which is as yet unproven.

I understand the "it's too good to be true" line of thinking, but here are the reasons why I don't believe them to be a Ponzi scheme:

1) Everybody I've spoken to there uses their real name.
2) They warn people outright on their website that investing in Mining shares at this time will not be profitable.
3) They post trading results the same way when they have a loss day as when they have a profitable day. If it were a Ponzi, they'd simply claim to make a profit every day.
4) They actively avoid advertising on any HYIP websites, though according to them there have been members of this community who attempted to blackmail them into doing such advertising.
5) Their customer service people will address any question put to them, including the ones posted by certain trolls on this board.
6) Their strategy seems completely sound to me, and rather low in risk. It's an arbitrage trading strategy, and when such a strategy fails to be profitable, you simply quit the strategy and there's no reason why it should experience sudden massive losses.
7) Since I invested, their returns have been declining slowly, which is what you would expect to happen when running a successful arbitrage trading strategy.
Cool I invested at almost the peak of the BTC/USD market, and withdrew very near the bottom. If they were running any type of Ponzi scheme, that would have been the hardest type of transaction to perform, as they ended up paying me out 100% of my initial BTC investment, plus a significant amount extra due to the drop in BTC price during my 120 days.
9) They refuse automatic re-investment which to me indicates that they at least want you to think about what you're doing with your money. They advertise it as a Residual Income opportunity, and they act like it. A residual income opportunity wouldn't re-invest your earnings, because then it's not income.
10) The only people who have anything negative to say about this business are those on this board who proclaim to be "professionals" when it comes to HYIP (eg. Scam Artists) or promoting their own Ponzi schemes.

That said, obviously with any new company there will be risks involved. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.
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May 20, 2014, 04:48:00 PM
 #611

It's pretty obvius that this thread is bumped by sock accounts. The reply above me is obviusly fake.

Stay away from this! Those overly thankul fake testomorials come out right about when a hyip scam is about to end just so the one who runs the hyip can run away with more money.

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May 20, 2014, 05:40:52 PM
 #612

It's pretty obvius that this thread is bumped by sock accounts. The reply above me is obviusly fake.

Stay away from this! Those overly thankul fake testomorials come out right about when a hyip scam is about to end just so the one who runs the hyip can run away with more money.

You are obviously not part of BT and your post should be considered off topic by the mods! Anyway dude, we'll talk in six months and listen what you have to say then  Grin
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May 20, 2014, 06:06:36 PM
 #613

Take a look at the account of the person above me. His first and last post are in the same thread. (this one) It's so obvious accounts are created just to promote this. I feel sorry for bumpin this thread even with this reply. This scam is so cheap. It doesn't deserve anyone's attention.
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May 20, 2014, 06:48:35 PM
 #614

Take a look at the account of the person above me. His first and last post are in the same thread. (this one) It's so obvious accounts are created just to promote this. I feel sorry for bumpin this thread even with this reply. This scam is so cheap. It doesn't deserve anyone's attention.

You are wrong my friend - do your homework, but I don't mind, we have proof by now that a lot of trolls in this thread are paid by the competition or because they failed to extort money from this fine company.
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May 20, 2014, 09:57:36 PM
 #615

This is my first post on this forum, but I figured I'd share my experience for what it's worth. I invested $100 in February in trading shares. My 120-day period has expired, and my shares returned %107. I've cashed out my initial investment, +7% and re-invested my initial investment. I had absolutely zero problems doing so. Just to make this clear to the trolls, I've walked away with my initial investment plus 7% profit, and because of the large returns I am still able to keep my initial investment amount invested and making returns.

Some early ponzi investors will make money.  However you should realize that your profit is the product of fraud and that money is coming directly out of the pockets of later investors who will lose their entire investment.  If the ponzi scheme is successfully prosecuted by the SEC - you may have to return your earnings -- does anyone know if this is true?

I also have no made a single dime from referrals, since I'm not comfortable referring my friends and family to something like this which is as yet unproven.

I understand the "it's too good to be true" line of thinking, but here are the reasons why I don't believe them to be a Ponzi scheme:

1) Everybody I've spoken to there uses their real name.
Lots of ponzi people use their real name. It's all about building trust.  Bernie Madoff.

2) They warn people outright on their website that investing in Mining shares at this time will not be profitable.
3) They post trading results the same way when they have a loss day as when they have a profitable day. If it were a Ponzi, they'd simply claim to make a profit every day.
4) They actively avoid advertising on any HYIP websites, though according to them there have been members of this community who attempted to blackmail them into doing such advertising.

They are a very professional operation and are trying to differentiate themselves from the other ponzis.  They have to do this to thrive due to the community's memory of Bitcoin Savings and Trust - and the greater community awareness of what a ponzi scheme is.  That said, the HYIP community knows that it is a ponzi and wants to be associated with it.

Their trading losses are tiny and impossibly rare.

5) Their customer service people will address any question put to them, including the ones posted by certain trolls on this board.
6) Their strategy seems completely sound to me, and rather low in risk. It's an arbitrage trading strategy, and when such a strategy fails to be profitable, you simply quit the strategy and there's no reason why it should experience sudden massive losses.
7) Since I invested, their returns have been declining slowly, which is what you would expect to happen when running a successful arbitrage trading strategy.
Cool I invested at almost the peak of the BTC/USD market, and withdrew very near the bottom. If they were running any type of Ponzi scheme, that would have been the hardest type of transaction to perform, as they ended up paying me out 100% of my initial BTC investment, plus a significant amount extra due to the drop in BTC price during my 120 days.
9) They refuse automatic re-investment which to me indicates that they at least want you to think about what you're doing with your money. They advertise it as a Residual Income opportunity, and they act like it. A residual income opportunity wouldn't re-invest your earnings, because then it's not income.
10) The only people who have anything negative to say about this business are those on this board who proclaim to be "professionals" when it comes to HYIP (eg. Scam Artists) or promoting their own Ponzi schemes.

You withdrew BTC. If they are running a traditional ponzi and holding on to the BTC (not using it for any type of investment) to pay it out to investors so as to encourage additional investment, then the USD price of BTC is irrelevant to the ability of the ponzi to return your money.

They might also be doing other things with the BTC - like spending it on drugs, fast cars, and the "good life" - like Trendon Shavers of Bitcoin Savings and Trust allegedly did (according to his ex-girlfriend and a chat log).  In which case they would have trouble paying out as the price declined, but this ponzi seems far more professional than his operation.


Look at my record. Read my posts. I've been on this board since June 2011.  I'm not involved in the management, or a partner or shareholder in any BTC business. I've never had a commercial ad in my signature.  I've been extremely hesitant to invest in anything because most of the BTC investments schemes have failed. My only investments are loaning money on Bitfinex (for people taking long positions) and a BTC long position. 

I'm against ponzi schemes because I hate to see people get scammed. I've been scammed for $20-$40 in my life (and I'm over 35) and that was enough.






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May 20, 2014, 10:01:22 PM
 #616

nrd525, Thank you for making this post. I hope that people will listen to our warning while it's still early and stop putting money in a sceme that is doomed to fail.

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May 20, 2014, 10:04:34 PM
 #617

This is my first post on this forum, but I figured I'd share my experience for what it's worth. I invested $100 in February in trading shares. My 120-day period has expired, and my shares returned %107. I've cashed out my initial investment, +7% and re-invested my initial investment. I had absolutely zero problems doing so. Just to make this clear to the trolls, I've walked away with my initial investment plus 7% profit, and because of the large returns I am still able to keep my initial investment amount invested and making returns.

Some early ponzi investors will make money.  However you should realize that your profit is the product of fraud and that money is coming directly out of the pockets of later investors who will lose their entire investment.  If the ponzi scheme is successfully prosecuted by the SEC - you may have to return your earnings -- does anyone know if this is true?

I also have no made a single dime from referrals, since I'm not comfortable referring my friends and family to something like this which is as yet unproven.

I understand the "it's too good to be true" line of thinking, but here are the reasons why I don't believe them to be a Ponzi scheme:

1) Everybody I've spoken to there uses their real name.
Lots of ponzi people use their real name. It's all about building trust.  Bernie Madoff.

2) They warn people outright on their website that investing in Mining shares at this time will not be profitable.
3) They post trading results the same way when they have a loss day as when they have a profitable day. If it were a Ponzi, they'd simply claim to make a profit every day.
4) They actively avoid advertising on any HYIP websites, though according to them there have been members of this community who attempted to blackmail them into doing such advertising.

They are a very professional operation and are trying to differentiate themselves from the other ponzis.  They have to do this to thrive due to the community's memory of Bitcoin Savings and Trust - and the greater community awareness of what a ponzi scheme is.  That said, the HYIP community knows that it is a ponzi and wants to be associated with it.

Their trading losses are tiny and impossibly rare.

5) Their customer service people will address any question put to them, including the ones posted by certain trolls on this board.
6) Their strategy seems completely sound to me, and rather low in risk. It's an arbitrage trading strategy, and when such a strategy fails to be profitable, you simply quit the strategy and there's no reason why it should experience sudden massive losses.
7) Since I invested, their returns have been declining slowly, which is what you would expect to happen when running a successful arbitrage trading strategy.
Cool I invested at almost the peak of the BTC/USD market, and withdrew very near the bottom. If they were running any type of Ponzi scheme, that would have been the hardest type of transaction to perform, as they ended up paying me out 100% of my initial BTC investment, plus a significant amount extra due to the drop in BTC price during my 120 days.
9) They refuse automatic re-investment which to me indicates that they at least want you to think about what you're doing with your money. They advertise it as a Residual Income opportunity, and they act like it. A residual income opportunity wouldn't re-invest your earnings, because then it's not income.
10) The only people who have anything negative to say about this business are those on this board who proclaim to be "professionals" when it comes to HYIP (eg. Scam Artists) or promoting their own Ponzi schemes.

You withdrew BTC. If they are running a traditional ponzi and holding on to the BTC (not using it for any type of investment) to pay it out to investors so as to encourage additional investment, then the USD price of BTC is irrelevant to the ability of the ponzi to return your money.

They might also be doing other things with the BTC - like spending it on drugs, fast cars, and the "good life" - like Trendon Shavers of Bitcoin Savings and Trust allegedly did (according to his ex-girlfriend and a chat log).  In which case they would have trouble paying out as the price declined, but this ponzi seems far more professional than his operation.


Look at my record. Read my posts. I've been on this board since June 2011.  I'm not involved in the management, or a partner or shareholder in any BTC business. I've never had a commercial ad in my signature.  I've been extremely hesitant to invest in anything because most of the BTC investments schemes have failed. My only investments are loaning money on Bitfinex (for people taking long positions) and a BTC long position.  

I'm against ponzi schemes because I hate to see people get scammed. I've been scammed for $20-$40 in my life (and I'm over 35) and that was enough.







I want to reach out and say that everything has been working for me as well. I can't truly vouch for them and the future, but I will say that so far things have been as expected. I also haven't heard of any others having problems.

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May 20, 2014, 10:04:53 PM
 #618

People and corporations, that benefited from the Madoff ponzi, got sued by Ivring Picard to recover money.  He could end up suing half of the estimated 2000 investors.  The current suits are for more than $10 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_of_funds_from_the_Madoff_investment_scandal


On March 16, 2009, a bankruptcy court filing indicated the British enclave of Gibraltar has found $75 million in Madoff assets.[26][27]

On April 9, 2009, Irving Picard sued Gibraltar-based Banque Jacob Safra in Manhattan Federal Bankruptcy Court seeking $150 million[28] Madoff wired as a "preferential payment"[29] to the bank, invested on behalf of Vizcaya Partners, a British Virgin Islands company. Beginning in 2002, Vizcaya had wired a total of $327 million to Madoff's investment firm through 26 different wire transfers, by the end of October 2008. Coincidentally, Madoff's parents had an investment business called Gibraltar Securities, registered in his mother's name, using their home as the business address. In January 1964, the SEC dropped their investigation when Sylvia agreed to close "her" business.[30]

On March 23, 2009, the bankruptcy trustee disclosed that French authorities are going to seize the French Riviera apartment on behalf of customers allegedly swindled in France. The property, listed in Ruth Madoff's name is located in Cap d'Antibes, is worth about $1 million, and contains approximately $900,000 in furnishings.[31]

On April 17, 2009, Picard sued Kingate Management Ltd. for the return of $255 million transferred to it shortly before Madoff Investment’s collapse. Beginning in the mid-1990s, feeder funds Kingate Global and Kingate Euro, created by Carlo Grosso, channeled $1.7 billion of his client’s money to Madoff.[32] The funds are registered in the British Virgin Islands. The complaint also names Bank of Bermuda Ltd., a unit of HSBC Holdings Plc, as a defendant. The bank wired the money. [33]

On May 1, 2009, Picard filed a lawsuit against Stanley Chais, 82. The complaint[34] alleges he "knew or should have known" he was deep in a Ponzi scheme when his family investments with Madoff averaged 40% and sometimes soared as high as 300%. It also claims Chais was a primary beneficiary of the scheme for at least 30 years, allowing his family to withdraw more than $1 billion from their accounts since 1995 – money that belonged to Madoff victims. The case number is Picard v. Chais, 09-01172.[35]

Stanley Chais is a wealthy investment advisor from Beverly Hills, California, who is accused of steering money to private interests, including Madoff, through Chais's Brighton Co., a limited partnership formed to manage money. He took about 3.8% of the profits as management fees. His Chais Family Foundation, which in 2007 reported assets of $178 million and charitable contributions of nearly $8.2 million, was wiped out and has shut down. He had a home in Beverly Hills, and an apartment in New York. (See Participants in the Madoff investment scandal.)

On May 7, 2009, Madoff Bankruptcy Trustee, Irving Picard filed a lawsuit [36] against J. Ezra Merkin, seeking to recover almost $500 million withdrawn from Madoff accounts in the last six years. The complaint alleges that since 1995, Merkin steered more than $1 billion to Madoff through three private hedge funds, Ascot Partners, Ariel Fund, and Gabriel Capital. Since 2002, the funds withdrew at least $494 million from Madoff — returns that Merkin “knew or should have known” were fraudulent. There were at least 500 instances in the last ten years when his Madoff account statements showed large blocks of stock bought or sold at prices that did not match the stock’s trading range for the day when the transactions supposedly occurred.[37] The case number is 08-01789 (BRL): IRVING H. PICARD, Trustee for the Liquidation of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, v. J. EZRA MERKIN, GABRIEL CAPITAL, L.P., ARIEL FUND LTD., ASCOT PARTNERS, L.P., GABRIEL CAPITAL CORPORATION.[36] On May 18, 2009, Merkin agreed to New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo's demands to step down as manager of his hedge funds and place them into receivership.[38]

On May 12, 2009, Picard sued Harley International (Cayman) Ltd., which invested more than $2 billion with Madoff, receiving an average annual return of 13.5%. The lawsuit alleges the Cayman Islands-based fund ignored warning signs that should have alerted it to the fraud. Harley withdrew more than $1 billion from the firm in the two years before its collapse on Dec 11, 2008, including $425 million in those last three months.[39][40][41]

On May 12, 2009, Picard filed a $5 billion lawsuit against Jeffry Picower, his wife, Barbara, and the Picower Foundation. The complaint alleges the Picowers, friends of Madoff for decades, "knew or should have known they were benefiting from fraudulent activity or, at a minimum, failed to exercise reasonable due diligence." The Palm Beach, Florida, foundation had given millions to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Human Rights First, and the New York Public Library. It also funded diabetes research at Harvard Medical School and Parkinsons research at Columbia Medical School.[42][43] On July 31, 2009, Picower filed a motion to dismiss the claim, saying that he "genuinely believed in the personal and professional integrity of Bernie Madoff." He urged the Court that the lawsuit was a "paradigm of excess" that reflected a "frenzied effort" to recover large sums from one of Madoff's wealthiest investors. [44] On October 25, 2009, Picower, who was 67 years old, was found dead at the bottom of his Palm Beach, Florida swimming pool.[45]

As of May 14, 2009, lawsuits to recover $10.1 billion in fictitious profits have been filed.[46]

On May 18, 2009, Picard sued Fairfield Greenwich Group, seeking the return of $3.2 billion during the period from 2002 to Madoff's arrest in December 2008.[47] $1.2 billion was withdrawn in the final three months of the fraud.[48][49] Since 1995, the Fairfield funds invested about $4.5 billion with Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, or BLMIS, through 242 wire transfers. The funds are Fairfield Sentry Ltd., Greenwich Sentry LP, and Greenwich Sentry Partners LP.[50] However, the money may already be in the hands of Fairfield’s own clients, who are likely off-limits to Picard, since they were not direct investors with Madoff.[51]

On June 22, 2009, Picard filed a claim against Cohmad Securities founder Maurice “Sonny” Cohn, daughter Marcia Cohn, and Robert Jaffe, among more than two dozen individuals and trusts in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York. The lawsuit claims that up to 90 percent of Cohmad’s income came from referring clients and that the firm had a “symbiotic” relationship with Madoff, having earned hundreds of millions of dollars from the fraud. The lawsuit seeks more than $100 million paid to Cohmad six years prior to Madoff’s firm declaring bankruptcy, and more than $105 million in profits Cohmad employees and their families withdrew from the investment accounts they held with Madoff.[52] The case is Picard v. Cohmad Securities Corp., 09-AP-1305, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).[53]

On June 26, 2009, Judge Chin ordered Madoff to personally forfeit $170 million in assets, and his wife, Ruth agreed to relinquish her claims of more than $80 million and to retain only $2.5 million.[54] The order allowed the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Picard to continue to pursue Mrs. Madoff's funds,[54] and on July 29, 2009, Irving Picard sued her for $45 million.[55]

Madoff-owned United States properties were auctioned unfurnished after Labor Day 2009; artwork and possessions, including boats, will be auctioned later.

Madoff's home at 216 Old Montauk Highway, Montauk, New York, was sold through the Corcoran Group for $9.4 million to real estate investor Steven Roth of Vornado Realty Trust. Madoff's mansion at 410 North Lake Way, Palm Beach, is still on the market as of August 2010; in February 2010 the asking price for the property, also being offered by the Corcoran Group was lowered to $7.25 million, below the initial asking price of $8.49 million and the previous reduced asking price of $7.9 million. In May 2010, Madoff's penthouse at 133 East 64th Street in Manhattan was sold to Al and Patsy Kahn for $8 million, a markdown from the original asking price of $9.9 million and the reduced listing price of $8.9 million.[56][57][58][59]

On April 1, 2009, the United States Marshals Service seized Madoff's several boats from marinas on Florida's east coast; these included a restored, custom-made 1969 Rybovich wooden antique fishing yacht, Bull, valued at $2.2 million, featuring a hydraulic elevator and teak woodwork, as well as several other boats [60]'[61] as well as personal property within the family home in Palm Beach, Florida.

On November 19, 2009, many items formerly belonging to Madoff were auctioned off at a private auction conducted by the U.S. Marshals Service. Bull was sold at auction for $700,000 to an unknown buyer. At the same auction other items formerly belonging to Madoff were sold, including a 38-foot 2003 Shelter Island Runabout Sport, Sitting Bull, which sold for $320,000 and a 24-foot 2000 center console from Maverick Boat Company, Little Bull, which sold for $21,000. A 1999 black Mercedes-Benz convertible formerly owned by Ruth Madoff sold for $30,000. A 61-foot 2003 Viking sport-fishing yacht formerly owned by Frank DiPascali sold for $950,000. A black 1999 Mercedes-Benz CLK 320 convertible with 12,827 miles on it, owned by Ruth Madoff, sold for $30,000.[62][63][64]

The Manhattan penthouse and Montauk Long Island summer home were seized in July 2009.[65]

Picard plans to sell Madoff's plane and his interest in NetJets.[66][67]

In an interview in July 2010, Picard said that he could potentially end up suing about half of the estimated 2,000 individual investors who withdrew more from Madoff's funds than they had invested.[68] These investors claim such recovery would cause personal hardships. For example, one 87-year-old former school secretary had made mandatory withdrawals from her retirement account and had paid taxes on the withdrawals, but Picard had sent her two letters seeking repayment of $691,372.[68] On November 12, 2010, Picard sued five former Madoff employees: former head of operations Daniel Bonventre, former controller Enrica Cotellessa-Pitz, trader David Kugel, and employees Annette Bongiorno and Jo Ann Crupi. The suit seeks recovery of $70 million in allegedly fraudulent transfers.[69] On November 17, 2010, Picard filed a clawback lawsuit seeking recover of $20.4 million in false profits from Melvyn I. Weiss and David J. Bershad, who had both previously pled guilty to racketeering charges in an earlier securities fraud case involving kickbacks to clients.[70]

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May 20, 2014, 10:07:03 PM
 #619

People and corporations, that benefited from the Madoff ponzi, got sued by Ivring Picard to recover money.  He could end up suing half of the estimated 2000 investors.  The current suits are for more than $10 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_of_funds_from_the_Madoff_investment_scandal


On March 16, 2009, a bankruptcy court filing indicated the British enclave of Gibraltar has found $75 million in Madoff assets.[26][27]

On April 9, 2009, Irving Picard sued Gibraltar-based Banque Jacob Safra in Manhattan Federal Bankruptcy Court seeking $150 million[28] Madoff wired as a "preferential payment"[29] to the bank, invested on behalf of Vizcaya Partners, a British Virgin Islands company. Beginning in 2002, Vizcaya had wired a total of $327 million to Madoff's investment firm through 26 different wire transfers, by the end of October 2008. Coincidentally, Madoff's parents had an investment business called Gibraltar Securities, registered in his mother's name, using their home as the business address. In January 1964, the SEC dropped their investigation when Sylvia agreed to close "her" business.[30]

On March 23, 2009, the bankruptcy trustee disclosed that French authorities are going to seize the French Riviera apartment on behalf of customers allegedly swindled in France. The property, listed in Ruth Madoff's name is located in Cap d'Antibes, is worth about $1 million, and contains approximately $900,000 in furnishings.[31]

On April 17, 2009, Picard sued Kingate Management Ltd. for the return of $255 million transferred to it shortly before Madoff Investment’s collapse. Beginning in the mid-1990s, feeder funds Kingate Global and Kingate Euro, created by Carlo Grosso, channeled $1.7 billion of his client’s money to Madoff.[32] The funds are registered in the British Virgin Islands. The complaint also names Bank of Bermuda Ltd., a unit of HSBC Holdings Plc, as a defendant. The bank wired the money. [33]

On May 1, 2009, Picard filed a lawsuit against Stanley Chais, 82. The complaint[34] alleges he "knew or should have known" he was deep in a Ponzi scheme when his family investments with Madoff averaged 40% and sometimes soared as high as 300%. It also claims Chais was a primary beneficiary of the scheme for at least 30 years, allowing his family to withdraw more than $1 billion from their accounts since 1995 – money that belonged to Madoff victims. The case number is Picard v. Chais, 09-01172.[35]

Stanley Chais is a wealthy investment advisor from Beverly Hills, California, who is accused of steering money to private interests, including Madoff, through Chais's Brighton Co., a limited partnership formed to manage money. He took about 3.8% of the profits as management fees. His Chais Family Foundation, which in 2007 reported assets of $178 million and charitable contributions of nearly $8.2 million, was wiped out and has shut down. He had a home in Beverly Hills, and an apartment in New York. (See Participants in the Madoff investment scandal.)

On May 7, 2009, Madoff Bankruptcy Trustee, Irving Picard filed a lawsuit [36] against J. Ezra Merkin, seeking to recover almost $500 million withdrawn from Madoff accounts in the last six years. The complaint alleges that since 1995, Merkin steered more than $1 billion to Madoff through three private hedge funds, Ascot Partners, Ariel Fund, and Gabriel Capital. Since 2002, the funds withdrew at least $494 million from Madoff — returns that Merkin “knew or should have known” were fraudulent. There were at least 500 instances in the last ten years when his Madoff account statements showed large blocks of stock bought or sold at prices that did not match the stock’s trading range for the day when the transactions supposedly occurred.[37] The case number is 08-01789 (BRL): IRVING H. PICARD, Trustee for the Liquidation of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, v. J. EZRA MERKIN, GABRIEL CAPITAL, L.P., ARIEL FUND LTD., ASCOT PARTNERS, L.P., GABRIEL CAPITAL CORPORATION.[36] On May 18, 2009, Merkin agreed to New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo's demands to step down as manager of his hedge funds and place them into receivership.[38]

On May 12, 2009, Picard sued Harley International (Cayman) Ltd., which invested more than $2 billion with Madoff, receiving an average annual return of 13.5%. The lawsuit alleges the Cayman Islands-based fund ignored warning signs that should have alerted it to the fraud. Harley withdrew more than $1 billion from the firm in the two years before its collapse on Dec 11, 2008, including $425 million in those last three months.[39][40][41]

On May 12, 2009, Picard filed a $5 billion lawsuit against Jeffry Picower, his wife, Barbara, and the Picower Foundation. The complaint alleges the Picowers, friends of Madoff for decades, "knew or should have known they were benefiting from fraudulent activity or, at a minimum, failed to exercise reasonable due diligence." The Palm Beach, Florida, foundation had given millions to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Human Rights First, and the New York Public Library. It also funded diabetes research at Harvard Medical School and Parkinsons research at Columbia Medical School.[42][43] On July 31, 2009, Picower filed a motion to dismiss the claim, saying that he "genuinely believed in the personal and professional integrity of Bernie Madoff." He urged the Court that the lawsuit was a "paradigm of excess" that reflected a "frenzied effort" to recover large sums from one of Madoff's wealthiest investors. [44] On October 25, 2009, Picower, who was 67 years old, was found dead at the bottom of his Palm Beach, Florida swimming pool.[45]

As of May 14, 2009, lawsuits to recover $10.1 billion in fictitious profits have been filed.[46]

On May 18, 2009, Picard sued Fairfield Greenwich Group, seeking the return of $3.2 billion during the period from 2002 to Madoff's arrest in December 2008.[47] $1.2 billion was withdrawn in the final three months of the fraud.[48][49] Since 1995, the Fairfield funds invested about $4.5 billion with Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, or BLMIS, through 242 wire transfers. The funds are Fairfield Sentry Ltd., Greenwich Sentry LP, and Greenwich Sentry Partners LP.[50] However, the money may already be in the hands of Fairfield’s own clients, who are likely off-limits to Picard, since they were not direct investors with Madoff.[51]

On June 22, 2009, Picard filed a claim against Cohmad Securities founder Maurice “Sonny” Cohn, daughter Marcia Cohn, and Robert Jaffe, among more than two dozen individuals and trusts in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York. The lawsuit claims that up to 90 percent of Cohmad’s income came from referring clients and that the firm had a “symbiotic” relationship with Madoff, having earned hundreds of millions of dollars from the fraud. The lawsuit seeks more than $100 million paid to Cohmad six years prior to Madoff’s firm declaring bankruptcy, and more than $105 million in profits Cohmad employees and their families withdrew from the investment accounts they held with Madoff.[52] The case is Picard v. Cohmad Securities Corp., 09-AP-1305, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).[53]

On June 26, 2009, Judge Chin ordered Madoff to personally forfeit $170 million in assets, and his wife, Ruth agreed to relinquish her claims of more than $80 million and to retain only $2.5 million.[54] The order allowed the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and Picard to continue to pursue Mrs. Madoff's funds,[54] and on July 29, 2009, Irving Picard sued her for $45 million.[55]

Madoff-owned United States properties were auctioned unfurnished after Labor Day 2009; artwork and possessions, including boats, will be auctioned later.

Madoff's home at 216 Old Montauk Highway, Montauk, New York, was sold through the Corcoran Group for $9.4 million to real estate investor Steven Roth of Vornado Realty Trust. Madoff's mansion at 410 North Lake Way, Palm Beach, is still on the market as of August 2010; in February 2010 the asking price for the property, also being offered by the Corcoran Group was lowered to $7.25 million, below the initial asking price of $8.49 million and the previous reduced asking price of $7.9 million. In May 2010, Madoff's penthouse at 133 East 64th Street in Manhattan was sold to Al and Patsy Kahn for $8 million, a markdown from the original asking price of $9.9 million and the reduced listing price of $8.9 million.[56][57][58][59]

On April 1, 2009, the United States Marshals Service seized Madoff's several boats from marinas on Florida's east coast; these included a restored, custom-made 1969 Rybovich wooden antique fishing yacht, Bull, valued at $2.2 million, featuring a hydraulic elevator and teak woodwork, as well as several other boats [60]'[61] as well as personal property within the family home in Palm Beach, Florida.

On November 19, 2009, many items formerly belonging to Madoff were auctioned off at a private auction conducted by the U.S. Marshals Service. Bull was sold at auction for $700,000 to an unknown buyer. At the same auction other items formerly belonging to Madoff were sold, including a 38-foot 2003 Shelter Island Runabout Sport, Sitting Bull, which sold for $320,000 and a 24-foot 2000 center console from Maverick Boat Company, Little Bull, which sold for $21,000. A 1999 black Mercedes-Benz convertible formerly owned by Ruth Madoff sold for $30,000. A 61-foot 2003 Viking sport-fishing yacht formerly owned by Frank DiPascali sold for $950,000. A black 1999 Mercedes-Benz CLK 320 convertible with 12,827 miles on it, owned by Ruth Madoff, sold for $30,000.[62][63][64]

The Manhattan penthouse and Montauk Long Island summer home were seized in July 2009.[65]

Picard plans to sell Madoff's plane and his interest in NetJets.[66][67]

In an interview in July 2010, Picard said that he could potentially end up suing about half of the estimated 2,000 individual investors who withdrew more from Madoff's funds than they had invested.[68] These investors claim such recovery would cause personal hardships. For example, one 87-year-old former school secretary had made mandatory withdrawals from her retirement account and had paid taxes on the withdrawals, but Picard had sent her two letters seeking repayment of $691,372.[68] On November 12, 2010, Picard sued five former Madoff employees: former head of operations Daniel Bonventre, former controller Enrica Cotellessa-Pitz, trader David Kugel, and employees Annette Bongiorno and Jo Ann Crupi. The suit seeks recovery of $70 million in allegedly fraudulent transfers.[69] On November 17, 2010, Picard filed a clawback lawsuit seeking recover of $20.4 million in false profits from Melvyn I. Weiss and David J. Bershad, who had both previously pled guilty to racketeering charges in an earlier securities fraud case involving kickbacks to clients.[70]

This is a long post. Can you please tl;dr it for us? How is this relevant to the discussion, is the big thing to answer.

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May 20, 2014, 10:11:23 PM
 #620

This is a long post. Can you please tl;dr it for us? How is this relevant to the discussion, is the big thing to answer.

I guess that this goes to show people how hard it would be if the opperator of the sceme tries to run away with the founds. If even all legal procedures are run flawlessly it's still almost imposible to have a full refound and It'll take years. But that probably does not apply for a ponzi operating with crypto currencies. There is no law in existance to protect you if you put your bitcoin in there! It's a risk not worth taking.

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