[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[danonthehill]

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.  

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

...and the effect was reversed transactions.

[reader31]

Calling him/her a "Greedy...guinea pig".  Are you for real? He/she bought the coins on the open market at what was the current market price.

Some people on this thread have no clue how this is being perceived by others in the crypto community who do not already have a vested interest in XCP, or how it will be perceived by people in the real world for that matter.

People with any kind of long term goal shouldn't/wouldn't be worried about these kinds of glitches. It is expected that early adaptors would have the risk tolerence to look past these issues. This the the risk that we as early adaptors take on for big returns later. Wait for the sleek Gui Counterparty client to kick in, the market will price itself at that point. We will be seeing a propotional increase in value.  

Alleluia to this!

Such a sense of community!

I assume you a referring to those who already have XCP or BTC. Not those who have had both their XCP and BTC stolen.

I am afraid you have gold fever. A Gui is not such a boast when the integrity of the community is in question.

All I'm saying is lets stay focused on strengths of the project. The reason I brought up the gui was to focus on the positives things that have been happening in the community. I'm sure anyone is free to believe and say whatever they want (We all have our vested interests). The best answer to all questions is the long term success of this project.

[cityglut]

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.  

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

...and the effect was reversed transactions.

You said that we rolled back the ledger. That did not happen. We fixed a bug, the result of which was invalidated transactions.

[520Bit]

Counterparty still has more of a bright future than any other project in my opinion.

You have a good sense of counterparty. I will continue to support this project and promote it in our community.

[danonthehill]

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.  

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

+1 People need to understand what is really going on here.

Perhaps an official press release would help, rather than the aggrieved parties having to trawl through this thread, which consistently refers to the action as a roll-back of the database/ledger.

Perhaps, technically, this is inaccurate,  but the fact is in the real world of commerce, transactions occurred and actions were taken; the effect being that the ledger was altered, and those transactions were invalidated.

[danonthehill]

We haven't heard from the attacker in a long time now, and it looks as though he's not going to return any of the funds he stole from Poloniex. We have made our recommendations to busoni as to what he should do, and the decision is up to him.

We have never heard from the attacker.  It is Busoni that we haven't heard from for a long time.  Poloniex has been frozen for a long time without word.  Negative speculation about this has spread to the IRC on several of the other exchanges, seeing as it is effecting other currencies.

[cityglut]

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.  

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

+1 People need to understand what is really going on here.

Perhaps an official press release would help, rather than the aggrieved parties having to trawl through this thread, which consistently refers to the action as a roll-back of the database/ledger.

Perhaps, technically, this is inaccurate,  but the fact is in the real world of commerce, transactions occurred and actions were taken; the effect being that the ledger was altered, and those transactions were invalidated.

The technical distinction is not trivial. Before the bug was fixed, transactions *which should not have been valid* were valid. The alternative you are implicitly proposing is to have left the bug in the protocol.

Also, the Counterparty protocol cannot force BTC payment, likewise it cannot reverse BTC payment. So people did not lose BTC on account of our bug fix.

[pikuchato]

I didn't do any transaction just sent my XCP to poloniex and placed a sell which was never fulfilled.

Can anyone please explain to me why my XCP were taken from me? How does this mess even related to me?

I see big whales waving with their solutions to this situation, of course their are it is small change for them anyway,
Like a real bank - when the reach people fuck something up they just take from the poor because they can't say or do anything.

I'm so pissed! I moved to digital currencies just because things like that!
until now it was my bank which was stilling from me,  that is the only difference

[supervine]

That were not legal transaction. They did not comply with the protocol guidelines. So no problem to disappear all of them. I don't see this like rollback transactions.
If you're using protocol-not-approved commands, don't be sad they will invalidate in next version.
By the way, bitcoin too (in case of fork) discontinues shortest chain and implements longest - this always guide to transactions canceling. In that case it is legal transactions what didn't get enough confirms.

[520Bit]

That were not legal transaction. They did not comply with the protocol guidelines. So no problem to disappear all of them. I don't see this like rollback transactions.
If you're using protocol-not-approved commands, don't be sad they will invalidate in next version.
By the way, bitcoin too (in case of fork) discontinues shortest chain and implements longest - this always guide to transactions canceling. In that case it is legal transactions what didn't get enough confirms.

+1 Totally agree.

[jayso043]

whats the situation for the XCP buyers on the exchange who brought the dumped XCP. I understand that the XCP protocol wasn't involved in that transfer of XCP, that a private transfer via the exchange. The situation for them will ultimately be decided by poloniex? No changes to the XCP protocol have or could be made for those trades, as they are done outside XCP protocol on the exchange. Although those XCP buyers are unlikely to get their BTC back, I am sure they would be happy with the XCP (I guess this is what the XCP donations is for?), if so I will donate 30 XCP once I am able to transfer out from poloniex  .    
 

[supervine]

I didn't do any transaction just sent my XCP to poloniex and placed a sell which was never fulfilled.

Can anyone please explain to me why my XCP were taken from me? How does this mess even related to me?

I see big whales waving with their solutions to this situation, of course their are it is small change for them anyway,
Like a real bank - when the reach people fuck something up they just take from the poor because they can't say or do anything.

Because Busoni from Poloniex decided to take all the XCPs to him. Even these not involved and even these not stolen. It doesn't look he going to return any. If he would like to, the people was getting their 90% of the coins (he have already) in a  few hours after incident. Seems he prefer not to...

[Bountyful]

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.  

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

+1 People need to understand what is really going on here.

Perhaps an official press release would help, rather than the aggrieved parties having to trawl through this thread, which consistently refers to the action as a roll-back of the database/ledger.

Perhaps, technically, this is inaccurate,  but the fact is in the real world of commerce, transactions occurred and actions were taken; the effect being that the ledger was altered, and those transactions were invalidated.

Yes and that ledger was the Poloniex Ledger. Here these links might help you so you don't have to troll through the thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg5251044#msg5251044

Then the Rollback on Poloniex's centralized ledger.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg5272669#msg5272669

[busoni]

Update.

First of all, one reason resuming XCP has been further delayed is that there was another required update that initiated a block chain resync. Resyncing takes about a day, and worse than that, the developers still haven't fixed the "busy error" issue, and I forgot to install my little patch for it after upgrading, so counterpartyd crashed last night. Right now, it is about 3,000 blocks behind. Once it finishes syncing, I will put XCP back up.

Next. The developers brought to my attention that people are still under the impression that the number of missing BTC is 80. This is entirely my fault, as that is the preliminary estimate I gave, and I never updated people after I did the calculations and rolled back the trades. The actual number of missing BTC is 115 -- 150 minus the 35 the hacker left in his account. I can provide the data on this if people want -- the list of trades and withdrawals made by the hacker.

The hacker has not responded for about two days. He still hasn't moved the BTC he took and may still have good intentions, but for now, we're going to have to assume it is lost so we can move on. The amount of BTC owed to people is recorded, and I will pay it off gradually, starting with the 35 BTC left behind by the hacker.

Once the block chain is done syncing, the BTC/XCP market will be resumed, as will deposits and withdrawals.

[520Bit]

Update.

First of all, one reason resuming XCP has been further delayed is that there was another required update that initiated a block chain resync. Resyncing takes about a day, and worse than that, the developers still haven't fixed the "busy error" issue, and I forgot to install my little patch for it after upgrading, so counterpartyd crashed last night. Right now, it is about 3,000 blocks behind. Once it finishes syncing, I will put XCP back up.

Next. The developers brought to my attention that people are still under the impression that the number of missing BTC is 80. This is entirely my fault, as that is the preliminary estimate I gave, and I never updated people after I did the calculations and rolled back the trades. The actual number of missing BTC is 115 -- 150 minus the 35 the hacker left in his account. I can provide the data on this if people want -- the list of trades and withdrawals made by the hacker.

The hacker has not responded for about two days. He still hasn't moved the BTC he took and may still have good intentions, but for now, we're going to have to assume it is lost so we can move on. The amount of BTC owed to people is recorded, and I will pay it off gradually, starting with the 35 BTC left behind by the hacker.

Once the block chain is done syncing, the BTC/XCP market will be resumed, as will deposits and withdrawals.

Great to hear this. We are moving now.

[supervine]

Busoni, from where are you go up to 150BTC???
The hacker maliciously sold 35,000XCP for 0.002 each. It's 70BTC. I'm dont understand how you missed 80 and now 115 BTC.

[PhantomPhreak]

First of all, one reason resuming XCP has been further delayed is that there was another required update that initiated a block chain resync. Resyncing takes about a day, and worse than that, the developers still haven't fixed the "busy error" issue, and I forgot to install my little patch for it after upgrading, so counterpartyd crashed last night. Right now, it is about 3,000 blocks behind. Once it finishes syncing, I will put XCP back up.

Ach, sorry about that! PM me with the details of the crash and your patch (I can't find where you originally reported that bug), and I'll fix the issue right away.

[jayso043]

The rollback of the invalid transactions (that the hacker used) keeps the integrity for the protocol. The integrity of the protocol means a loss for the new XCP buyers on poloniex, who I could call the new community, assuming that were not involved in the initial burn.

The new community now have zero XCP & BTC, it reflects bad on XCP. We need to raise the XCP between us, rather than expecting Poloniex/busoni to gradually pay back the BTC. I am sure the new community would be happy with the XCP (keep those trades valid).

I look forward to the lottery to encourage donations.
All Poloniex earnings from XCP trading should so go into the donation pot.
Also Poloniex should put some of this own funds to the donation pot, due to the lack security behind the withdrawal, that allowed all BTC to be removed.

It’s in the burned XCP holders interests to donate.

I wouldn’t encourage the exchange to open for XCP again for a few weeks to give the bug bounty time.

[ginko-B]

you guys all need to chill out.

exchanges charge fees and those fees should cover insurance and security costs such as this.  again assuming there is some level of sophistication in the operations.

the exchange can easily make up the amounts in fees over the course of a few weeks, maybe a couple months at most.

or the exchange can release some bond or stock on XCP and give holders a portion of their future profits to raise the 80 btc and 6100 xcp to cover their obligation.

cannot agree more with the entire post

I think I'll donate some xcp for the poloniex fund, even though I am not directly affected. But Poloniex took the risk as an entrepreneur to take xcp and earned and hopefully will earn money with xcp. The customers also knew that it is alpha software and that something like that could happen.

Do not get me wrong I am totally fine with fundraising, but I do not think it is our obligation to bail-out poloniex. Especially the 80 btc which were withdrawn without a second security check are hard for me to understand. I think Busoni could offer a solution like the one suggested by prophetx for the customers.

Anyway I'll donate 10 XCP for your fund this afternoon, not because it is our obligation to bail you out, but because you took the risk and seem to be behind the project.

+1

I agree that an IOU from Poloniex to each aggrieved party would create some near term stability, maybe this could initially take the form of a public statement of commitment from Busoni.  Could you do this Busoni?  

Most likely you can recover the full amount over the next 45 days by implementing a 2.5% trading fee on Poloniex.

We are all behind you!

[InsanityDev]

Can somebody from XCP please confirm which of the following statements is true (sparing technical details):

a) Poloniex's server or system was compromised by a malicious attacker who withdrew a large amount of bitcoin
b) Poloniex was running on an XCP chain which was incorrect, and somebody has (legitimately or maliciously) moved XCP to poloniex to sell for BTC, which they have then withdrawn.

Thanks.