[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread

[Chang Hum]

Swarm’s crowdfunding will close on July 20th with a target of 17,000 bitcoins.

17000BTC*630$=10.7m$! LOL, that is too much!

This is a slight mistake and is currently being corrected in the article. Our target is 4,000 BTC. We will accept an additional 17,000 BTC in a second phase at a slightly lower rate of exchange.

If we raise a larger amount these additional funds will be used to underwrite future coin launches.

For additional details see the booklet that was recently given out at our announcement in Vienna:  

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qt7g20sgposayu/swarm-booklet-v6.pdf

I'm trying to understand the donut graph on page 11 of the swarm booklet labelled fundraiser but it doesn't seem to tally up.

The chart and key lists:

Open Phase 1 4000 Bitcoin
Open Phase 2 17000 Bitcoin
Indication of interest 500 Bitcoin
Swarm reserves 1000 Bitcoin

Sum: 22500 Bitcoin

20% of 22500 = 4500 (shown on graph as 4000)
68% of 22500 = 15300 (shown on graph as 17000)
4% of 22500 = 900 (shown on graph as 500)
8% of 22500 = 1800 (shown on graph as 1000)

As far as I can see the booklet shows Swarm’s crowdfunding will close on July 20th with a target of 22,500 Bitcoins.

[devphp]

What the fuck is MEAT and CAKE ?

Why is there only 2 assets in XCP ?

you know, when all pizza delivery services are closed for the night, you can always buy some meat and cake with xcp 

[voldemort628]

what is the point of having Swarm when anyone can just create a "coin" using counterparty protocol.

[Anotheranonlol]

What the fuck is MEAT and CAKE ?

Why is there only 2 assets in XCP ?

Anybody can create assets, there is no central authority to restrict the words you are allowed. These were likely created for testing the creation, issuance and dividend payment portions of counterparty.

As you can see from a trivial check here http://blockscan.com/asset.aspx or on the counterwallet client there are a lot more than 2 assets.

[Anotheranonlol]

what is the point of having Swarm when anyone can just create a "coin" using counterparty protocol.

I believe swarm will have a front end client which will essentially be like a kickstarter for bitcoin, it will work with counterparty as the underlying protocol but the counterparty side will be transparent to an ordinary user.

They will undertake their own due-diligence on any promoted listings displayed on their app, and allow early backers to take stakes (e.g equity) in listed project (Rather than only being able to receive free t-shirts for $20 pledge or whatever nonsense kickstarter is doing these days)

[voldemort628]

I believe swarm will have a front end client which will essentially be like a kickstarter for bitcoin, it will work with counterparty as the underlying protocol but the counterparty side will be transparent to an ordinary user.

They will undertake their own due-diligence on any promoted listings displayed on their app, and allow early backers to take stakes (e.g equity) in listed project (Rather than only being able to receive free t-shirts for $20 pledge or whatever nonsense kickstarter is doing these days)

thats cool if it is really true!

[porqupine]

what is the point of having Swarm when anyone can just create a "coin" using counterparty protocol.

I believe swarm will have a front end client which will essentially be like a kickstarter for bitcoin, it will work with counterparty as the underlying protocol but the counterparty side will be transparent to an ordinary user.

They will undertake their own due-diligence on any promoted listings displayed on their app, and allow early backers to take stakes (e.g equity) in listed project (Rather than only being able to receive free t-shirts for $20 pledge or whatever nonsense kickstarter is doing these days)

You can pre-order a 3d printer a half-a-year to a year in advance with a 25% markup and before product reviews?

[FrictionlessCoin]

What the fuck is MEAT and CAKE ?

Why is there only 2 assets in XCP ?

Anybody can create assets, there is no central authority to restrict the words you are allowed. These were likely created for testing the creation, issuance and dividend payment portions of counterparty.

As you can see from a trivial check here http://blockscan.com/asset.aspx or on the counterwallet client there are a lot more than 2 assets.

With so many assets... somebody needs to come up with something like a rating agency!

Hmmmm.... what about a distributed decentralized rating component?

[nakaone]

What the fuck is MEAT and CAKE ?

Why is there only 2 assets in XCP ?

Anybody can create assets, there is no central authority to restrict the words you are allowed. These were likely created for testing the creation, issuance and dividend payment portions of counterparty.

As you can see from a trivial check here http://blockscan.com/asset.aspx or on the counterwallet client there are a lot more than 2 assets.

With so many assets... somebody needs to come up with something like a rating agency!

Hmmmm.... what about a distributed decentralized rating component?

afaik something like that is planned

[sparta_cuss]

What the fuck is MEAT and CAKE ?

Why is there only 2 assets in XCP ?

Anybody can create assets, there is no central authority to restrict the words you are allowed. These were likely created for testing the creation, issuance and dividend payment portions of counterparty.

As you can see from a trivial check here http://blockscan.com/asset.aspx or on the counterwallet client there are a lot more than 2 assets.

With so many assets... somebody needs to come up with something like a rating agency!

Hmmmm.... what about a distributed decentralized rating component?

Here's a very interesting proposal for just that.
https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,220.0.html

[FrictionlessCoin]

What the fuck is MEAT and CAKE ?

Why is there only 2 assets in XCP ?

Anybody can create assets, there is no central authority to restrict the words you are allowed. These were likely created for testing the creation, issuance and dividend payment portions of counterparty.

As you can see from a trivial check here http://blockscan.com/asset.aspx or on the counterwallet client there are a lot more than 2 assets.

With so many assets... somebody needs to come up with something like a rating agency!

Hmmmm.... what about a distributed decentralized rating component?

Here's a very interesting proposal for just that.
https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,220.0.html

Indeed interesting that you can't really have assets in a trustless system.

The moment you allow folks to start selling assets, then the sellers and possibly all the other participants of that asset cannot be anonymous.  A trust system needs to be available. 

Possibly a distributed decentralized trust system is what is needed.   

[Anotheranonlol]

Indeed interesting that you can't really have assets in a trustless system.

The moment you allow folks to start selling assets, then the sellers and possibly all the other participants of that asset cannot be anonymous.  A trust system needs to be available.  

Possibly a distributed decentralized trust system is what is needed.  

Without having a central entity controlling ratings, it becomes a little tricky. One way you could demonstrate some level of trustworthiness for an asset issuer at this moment in time is to use a Bitcoin address you have established positive WoT ratings for (http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/OTC_Rating_System)

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php

It can be verified independently, but I believe counterparty can plugin to this if they wished.

Or perhaps something as simple as a signed message in asset description field, confirmed on a separate channel. (like MPUSD did) also may work.

In another example ROCKMINER added JSON feed on their site, linked in counterparty asset description and confirmed listing of the asset here on the forum, the issuer there has already demonstrated they are reputable in the past so the risk was less

 Of course any trust system can be gamed/abused somewhat too, just like the ratings system on this forum.

[mtbitcoin]

What the fuck is MEAT and CAKE ?

Why is there only 2 assets in XCP ?

Anybody can create assets, there is no central authority to restrict the words you are allowed. These were likely created for testing the creation, issuance and dividend payment portions of counterparty.

As you can see from a trivial check here http://blockscan.com/asset.aspx or on the counterwallet client there are a lot more than 2 assets.

With so many assets... somebody needs to come up with something like a rating agency!

Hmmmm.... what about a distributed decentralized rating component?

Here's a very interesting proposal for just that.
https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,220.0.html

Indeed interesting that you can't really have assets in a trustless system.

The moment you allow folks to start selling assets, then the sellers and possibly all the other participants of that asset cannot be anonymous.  A trust system needs to be available.  

Possibly a distributed decentralized trust system is what is needed.  

I have gone through some of the proposals and they are very interesting indeed. However, I personally feel that we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves at this point of time. Most of these ideas are quite elaborate and will take quite a bit of resources to successfully fund and materialize. And then say for a system that is "audit" based you will need competent staff to actually carry out a proper audit on an ongoing basis.

Instead, I feel that what we need now is perhaps something more straight forward and simple. In my mind a system like say.. Amazon's user Feedback system would suffice (for now) and would allow users to post feedback and cumulative score can be maintain. While it will be possible to "game" the system it will still suffice as a source of information for investors.. With a little bit tweaking the scores can be tied to reviewers reputation

Depending on how things pan out, I might be incorporating an asset based user rating system into Blockscan if there a need for such a system..

Cheers

[chong ching]

hi guys,
im trying to run counterpartyd (testnet) on my computer - it used to work just fine, but now i get this error:

File "XXXXXX\lib\site-packages\dateutil\tz.py", line 152, in _isdst
    return time.localtime(timestamp+time.timezone).tm_isdst
ValueError: (22, 'Invalid argument')


help will be appreciated 

[sparta_cuss]

I have gone through some of the proposals and they are very interesting indeed. However, I personally feel that we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves at this point of time. Most of these ideas are quite elaborate and will take quite a bit of resources to successfully fund and materialize. And then say for a system that is "audit" based you will need competent staff to actually carry out a proper audit on an ongoing basis.

Instead, I feel that what we need now is perhaps something more straight forward and simple. In my mind a system like say.. Amazon's user Feedback system would suffice (for now) and would allow users to post feedback and cumulative score can be maintain. While it will be possible to "game" the system it will still suffice as a source of information for investors.. With a little bit tweaking the scores can be tied to reviewers reputation

Depending on how things pan out, I might be incorporating an asset based user rating system into Blockscan if there a need for such a system..

Cheers

+1

Much of the conversation on that topic was getting very detailed, I agree. It will be important, though, to think ahead so that the system builds incentives in. We can think about how those incentives for participation will build support systems or roles, like the Auditor role.

Also, it is necessary to generate some use cases so that we have a sense for the broad range of asset types that a trust system will want to rate.

What is most important at this point is to begin somewhere with the appropriate "objects." For example, the primary object is probably the asset issuer, and any assets that come from that issuer are derivative objects. In other words, the reputation should be tied to the asset issuer primarily, and derivatively to the assets themselves. This is how eBay and Amazon work, as you point out.

[xnova]

Swarm’s crowdfunding will close on July 20th with a target of 17,000 bitcoins.

17000BTC*630$=10.7m$! LOL, that is too much!

This is a slight mistake and is currently being corrected in the article. Our target is 4,000 BTC. We will accept an additional 17,000 BTC in a second phase at a slightly lower rate of exchange.

If we raise a larger amount these additional funds will be used to underwrite future coin launches.

For additional details see the booklet that was recently given out at our announcement in Vienna:   

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qt7g20sgposayu/swarm-booklet-v6.pdf

Thanks, the post has been updated.

[fractastical]

I believe swarm will have a front end client which will essentially be like a kickstarter for bitcoin, it will work with counterparty as the underlying protocol but the counterparty side will be transparent to an ordinary user.

They will undertake their own due-diligence on any promoted listings displayed on their app, and allow early backers to take stakes (e.g equity) in listed project (Rather than only being able to receive free t-shirts for $20 pledge or whatever nonsense kickstarter is doing these days)

thats cool if it is really true!

It's true

One additional thing that we plan to incorporate is due-diligence that is also decentralized. We want to use eToro (http://www.etoro.com/) style dashboards where you can see what projects have been endorsed and what the track record of is of the people who are endorsing a project. We should have mockups available in the next week or so that show how this will work.

[fractastical]

I'm trying to understand the donut graph on page 11 of the swarm booklet labelled fundraiser but it doesn't seem to tally up.

...
As far as I can see the booklet shows Swarm’s crowdfunding will close on July 20th with a target of 22,500 Bitcoins.

Hopefully this explains it:

Swarm reserves -> 8,000,000 SWARM (4,000,000 for founders, 4,000,000 for bounties)
Indication of Interest -> 500 Bitcoin -> 4,000,000 SWARM
Open Phase 1 -> 4,000 Bitcoin -> 20,000,000 SWARM
Open Phase 2 -> 17,000 Bitcoin -> 68,000,000 SWARM

Total coins issued is 100,000,000.

Target is 4,000 Bitcoin raise in the first open phase. After we will accept Bitcoins up until a 21,500 Bitcoin cap.


Happy to answer any additional questions.



 

[maaku]

you are only reserving 4% for the founders and developers? are you sure that's going to be imenough incentives?

[loveyouforever]

what's the status of XCP now