Vertcoin - First Scrypt N | First Stealth Address - Privacy without mixer

[jamesl22]

is it true that zerovert dev is  vertcoin dev? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846471.0

Yes

[jwinterm]

You don't have to be an expert on economics to understand what inflation is. Simply put, too many coins are being mined everyday with not enough buy support to sustain the existing new supply among the current supply. Until you have buyers (demand) for those new coins, price has no where to go but down. To ignore inflation or this very fact means you have been totally oblivious to the constant downward price action in your coin. But... if you are fine with that, continue disregarding inflation.

bitcoin, litecoin, and vertcoin are designed to have high inflation to allow early entrants in the first several years to get in at low cost, so the coin can hopefully be more widespread and effective as a currency. darkcoin (the coin you're primarily a proponent of based on your comment history) had a huge instamine, and then hard forked to change emission, so that almost 35% of the current coin supply (and almost 10% of the total coin supply) was mined in the first eight hours of the coin's life, then rewards were drastically reduced by hardfork. To be fair, vertcoin had it's own issues with instamine, likely due to poor difficulty retargeting when the hashrate was rapidly rising after the coin's release, resulting in 600k vtc being created in ~30 hours, but this is only about 5% of the current coin supply, and less than 1% of the total coin supply. vertcoin, however, didn't hardfork to reward the first day's miners (i.e., the dev(s)) with almost 35% of the current coin supply, like darkcoin did, giving themself/themselves an effective 10% premine.

[oblox]

You don't have to be an expert on economics to understand what inflation is. Simply put, too many coins are being mined everyday with not enough buy support to sustain the existing new supply among the current supply. Until you have buyers (demand) for those new coins, price has no where to go but down. To ignore inflation or this very fact means you have been totally oblivious to the constant downward price action in your coin. But... if you are fine with that, continue disregarding inflation.

bitcoin, litecoin, and vertcoin are designed to have high inflation to allow early entrants in the first several years to get in at low cost, so the coin can hopefully be more widespread and effective as a currency. darkcoin (the coin you're primarily a proponent of based on your comment history) had a huge instamine, and then hard forked to change emission, so that almost 35% of the current coin supply (and almost 10% of the total coin supply) was mined in the first eight hours of the coin's life, then rewards were drastically reduced by hardfork. To be fair, vertcoin had it's own issues with instamine, likely due to poor difficulty retargeting when the hashrate was rapidly rising after the coin's release, resulting in 600k vtc being created in ~30 hours, but this is only about 5% of the current coin supply, and less than 1% of the total coin supply. vertcoin, however, didn't hardfork to reward the first day's miners (i.e., the dev(s)) with almost 35% of the current coin supply, like darkcoin did, giving themself/themselves an effective 10% premine.

I didn't come in talking about DRK, I am simply stating a fact that until demand can match or exceed supply, downward pricing action will prevail. Since you brought up DRK, I don't think anyone in the DRK camp is happy about the issues with the instamine but it has been beaten to death that those coins have long since been churned over 2 months of stagnant price action. If that really is your base case argument, it's a bit flawed. Further, the distribution that happened allowed for the expansive network of masternodes already available. With the continued coin supply tied directly to difficulty with a floor and yearly reduction, inflation is minimal at best.

But good luck on Vertcoin. I never came in here talking trash about it, just simply pointed out the fact that an algo change doesn't mean the price is going to change to the upside until demand matches or exceeds new supply. Basic mathematics coupled with basic economics is resulting in the situation VTC is currently in.

[jamesl22]

is it true that zerovert dev is  vertcoin dev? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846471.0

Yes

Try dumping those awful memset and memcpy function implementations - I wouldn't be surprised if the AMD compiler fucks it up.

Also, dunno about Blake2b, but all versions of Blake I've seen have r increasing by one and i increasing by 2 each round... and where are the sigma lookups?

I'm not handling the miner anymore, we have more experienced people working on it. Because as you say it was "awful" .

[jamesl22]

is it true that zerovert dev is  vertcoin dev? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846471.0

Yes

Try dumping those awful memset and memcpy function implementations - I wouldn't be surprised if the AMD compiler fucks it up.

Also, dunno about Blake2b, but all versions of Blake I've seen have r increasing by one and i increasing by 2 each round... and where are the sigma lookups?

I'm not handling the miner anymore, we have more experienced people working on it. Because as you say it was "awful" .

Oh, okay. It was, I have to say - no offense. But, I'll take a look at it if you want.

Probably wasn't a good starting OpenCL project haha. I'll let you know if we run into any problems, thanks for the offer.

[jamesl22]

is it true that zerovert dev is  vertcoin dev? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846471.0

Yes

Try dumping those awful memset and memcpy function implementations - I wouldn't be surprised if the AMD compiler fucks it up.

Also, dunno about Blake2b, but all versions of Blake I've seen have r increasing by one and i increasing by 2 each round... and where are the sigma lookups?

I'm not handling the miner anymore, we have more experienced people working on it. Because as you say it was "awful" .

Oh, okay. It was, I have to say - no offense. But, I'll take a look at it if you want.

Probably wasn't a good starting OpenCL project haha. I'll let you know if we run into any problems, thanks for the offer.

Oh, your first OCL project? I shouldn't have been so hard on you, sorry!

Worry not, I was naive to think I could do it at this stage.

[jwinterm]

You don't have to be an expert on economics to understand what inflation is. Simply put, too many coins are being mined everyday with not enough buy support to sustain the existing new supply among the current supply. Until you have buyers (demand) for those new coins, price has no where to go but down. To ignore inflation or this very fact means you have been totally oblivious to the constant downward price action in your coin. But... if you are fine with that, continue disregarding inflation.

bitcoin, litecoin, and vertcoin are designed to have high inflation to allow early entrants in the first several years to get in at low cost, so the coin can hopefully be more widespread and effective as a currency. darkcoin (the coin you're primarily a proponent of based on your comment history) had a huge instamine, and then hard forked to change emission, so that almost 35% of the current coin supply (and almost 10% of the total coin supply) was mined in the first eight hours of the coin's life, then rewards were drastically reduced by hardfork. To be fair, vertcoin had it's own issues with instamine, likely due to poor difficulty retargeting when the hashrate was rapidly rising after the coin's release, resulting in 600k vtc being created in ~30 hours, but this is only about 5% of the current coin supply, and less than 1% of the total coin supply. vertcoin, however, didn't hardfork to reward the first day's miners (i.e., the dev(s)) with almost 35% of the current coin supply, like darkcoin did, giving themself/themselves an effective 10% premine.

I didn't come in talking about DRK, I am simply stating a fact that until demand can match or exceed supply, downward pricing action will prevail. Since you brought up DRK, I don't think anyone in the DRK camp is happy about the issues with the instamine but it has been beaten to death that those coins have long since been churned over 2 months of stagnant price action. If that really is your base case argument, it's a bit flawed. Further, the distribution that happened allowed for the expansive network of masternodes already available. With the continued coin supply tied directly to difficulty with a floor and yearly reduction, inflation is minimal at best.

But good luck on Vertcoin. I never came in here talking trash about it, just simply pointed out the fact that an algo change doesn't mean the price is going to change to the upside until demand matches or exceeds new supply. Basic mathematics coupled with basic economics is resulting in the situation VTC is currently in.

What part of "it's a feature not a bug" do you not understand?

Also, didn't mean to jump on you about darkcoin, I just remembered seeing you in some monero thread(s) recently "not talking trash", so I thought I'd use darkcoin as a contrasting example to vert.

[oblox]

You don't have to be an expert on economics to understand what inflation is. Simply put, too many coins are being mined everyday with not enough buy support to sustain the existing new supply among the current supply. Until you have buyers (demand) for those new coins, price has no where to go but down. To ignore inflation or this very fact means you have been totally oblivious to the constant downward price action in your coin. But... if you are fine with that, continue disregarding inflation.

bitcoin, litecoin, and vertcoin are designed to have high inflation to allow early entrants in the first several years to get in at low cost, so the coin can hopefully be more widespread and effective as a currency. darkcoin (the coin you're primarily a proponent of based on your comment history) had a huge instamine, and then hard forked to change emission, so that almost 35% of the current coin supply (and almost 10% of the total coin supply) was mined in the first eight hours of the coin's life, then rewards were drastically reduced by hardfork. To be fair, vertcoin had it's own issues with instamine, likely due to poor difficulty retargeting when the hashrate was rapidly rising after the coin's release, resulting in 600k vtc being created in ~30 hours, but this is only about 5% of the current coin supply, and less than 1% of the total coin supply. vertcoin, however, didn't hardfork to reward the first day's miners (i.e., the dev(s)) with almost 35% of the current coin supply, like darkcoin did, giving themself/themselves an effective 10% premine.

I didn't come in talking about DRK, I am simply stating a fact that until demand can match or exceed supply, downward pricing action will prevail. Since you brought up DRK, I don't think anyone in the DRK camp is happy about the issues with the instamine but it has been beaten to death that those coins have long since been churned over 2 months of stagnant price action. If that really is your base case argument, it's a bit flawed. Further, the distribution that happened allowed for the expansive network of masternodes already available. With the continued coin supply tied directly to difficulty with a floor and yearly reduction, inflation is minimal at best.

But good luck on Vertcoin. I never came in here talking trash about it, just simply pointed out the fact that an algo change doesn't mean the price is going to change to the upside until demand matches or exceeds new supply. Basic mathematics coupled with basic economics is resulting in the situation VTC is currently in.

What part of "it's a feature not a bug" do you not understand?

Also, didn't mean to jump on you about darkcoin, I just remembered seeing you in some monero thread(s) recently "not talking trash", so I thought I'd use darkcoin as a contrasting example to vert.

I'll simplify it for you: An algo change as a FEATURE (remaining ASIC resistant) isn't enough on its own to justify any price increases without further demand. Period.

As for the Monero thread, if false shit is going to be spread, it's going to be commented on. But keep going, we can dance circles if you want.

[jwinterm]

You don't have to be an expert on economics to understand what inflation is. Simply put, too many coins are being mined everyday with not enough buy support to sustain the existing new supply among the current supply. Until you have buyers (demand) for those new coins, price has no where to go but down. To ignore inflation or this very fact means you have been totally oblivious to the constant downward price action in your coin. But... if you are fine with that, continue disregarding inflation.

bitcoin, litecoin, and vertcoin are designed to have high inflation to allow early entrants in the first several years to get in at low cost, so the coin can hopefully be more widespread and effective as a currency. darkcoin (the coin you're primarily a proponent of based on your comment history) had a huge instamine, and then hard forked to change emission, so that almost 35% of the current coin supply (and almost 10% of the total coin supply) was mined in the first eight hours of the coin's life, then rewards were drastically reduced by hardfork. To be fair, vertcoin had it's own issues with instamine, likely due to poor difficulty retargeting when the hashrate was rapidly rising after the coin's release, resulting in 600k vtc being created in ~30 hours, but this is only about 5% of the current coin supply, and less than 1% of the total coin supply. vertcoin, however, didn't hardfork to reward the first day's miners (i.e., the dev(s)) with almost 35% of the current coin supply, like darkcoin did, giving themself/themselves an effective 10% premine.

I didn't come in talking about DRK, I am simply stating a fact that until demand can match or exceed supply, downward pricing action will prevail. Since you brought up DRK, I don't think anyone in the fRK camp is happy about the issues with the instamine but it has been beaten to death that those coins have long since been churned over 2 months of stagnant price action. If that really is your base case argument, it's a bit flawed. Further, the distribution that happened allowed for the expansive network of masternodes already available. With the continued coin supply tied directly to difficulty with a floor and yearly reduction, inflation is minimal at best.

But good luck on Vertcoin. I never came in here talking trash about it, just simply pointed out the fact that an algo change doesn't mean the price is going to change to the upside until demand matches or exceeds new supply. Basic mathematics coupled with basic economics is resulting in the situation VTC is currently in.

What part of "it's a feature not a bug" do you not understand?

Also, didn't mean to jump on you about darkcoin, I just remembered seeing you in some monero thread(s) recently "not talking trash", so I thought I'd use darkcoin as a contrasting example to vert.

I'll simplify it for you: An algo change as a FEATURE (remaining ASIC resistant) isn't enough on its own to justify any price increases without further demand. Period.

As for the Monero thread, if false shit is going to be spread, it's going to be commented on. But keep going, we can dance circles if you want.

I meant the inflation is a feature, to keep coins cheap for several years and (hopefully) allow for broader adoption.

[jk_14]

Just wonder, in your opinion:
Exactly the same inflation rate - is killing Litecoin or is not?

Yes, as well as lack of innovation.

there is 3-4$ for Litecoin long period, so LTC daily inflation is at least 86 k$
there is 0.05$ for Vertcoin long period, so VTC daily inflation is about 1.5 k$ (i.e. "nothing")

Litecoin has lack of innovation and spiral of death risk - due to centralisation ("ASIC Wars" seems to be announced already)
Vertcoin is going to change old PoW for modern, best ASIC resistant PoW.


Vertcoin was born as "better Litecoin"...
- so, who knows... - there is a chance to be seriously surprised in the future...

[djnocide]

Just wonder, in your opinion:
Exactly the same inflation rate - is killing Litecoin or is not?

Yes, as well as lack of innovation.

there is 3-4$ for Litecoin long period, so LTC daily inflation is at least 86 k$
there is 0.05$ for Vertcoin long period, so VTC daily inflation is about 1.5 k$ (i.e. "nothing")

Litecoin has lack of innovation and spiral of death risk - due to centralisation ("ASIC Wars" seems to be announced already)
Vertcoin is going to change old PoW for modern, best ASIC resistant PoW.


Vertcoin was born as "better Litecoin"...
- so, who knows... - there is a chance to be seriously surprised in the future...

As long as there's innovation in a coin, there's a chance for it to succeed in the future.

[AizenSou]

You don't have to be an expert on economics to understand what inflation is. Simply put, too many coins are being mined everyday with not enough buy support to sustain the existing new supply among the current supply. Until you have buyers (demand) for those new coins, price has no where to go but down. To ignore inflation or this very fact means you have been totally oblivious to the constant downward price action in your coin. But... if you are fine with that, continue disregarding inflation.

bitcoin, litecoin, and vertcoin are designed to have high inflation to allow early entrants in the first several years to get in at low cost, so the coin can hopefully be more widespread and effective as a currency. darkcoin (the coin you're primarily a proponent of based on your comment history) had a huge instamine, and then hard forked to change emission, so that almost 35% of the current coin supply (and almost 10% of the total coin supply) was mined in the first eight hours of the coin's life, then rewards were drastically reduced by hardfork. To be fair, vertcoin had it's own issues with instamine, likely due to poor difficulty retargeting when the hashrate was rapidly rising after the coin's release, resulting in 600k vtc being created in ~30 hours, but this is only about 5% of the current coin supply, and less than 1% of the total coin supply. vertcoin, however, didn't hardfork to reward the first day's miners (i.e., the dev(s)) with almost 35% of the current coin supply, like darkcoin did, giving themself/themselves an effective 10% premine.

I didn't come in talking about DRK, I am simply stating a fact that until demand can match or exceed supply, downward pricing action will prevail. Since you brought up DRK, I don't think anyone in the DRK camp is happy about the issues with the instamine but it has been beaten to death that those coins have long since been churned over 2 months of stagnant price action. If that really is your base case argument, it's a bit flawed. Further, the distribution that happened allowed for the expansive network of masternodes already available. With the continued coin supply tied directly to difficulty with a floor and yearly reduction, inflation is minimal at best.

But good luck on Vertcoin. I never came in here talking trash about it, just simply pointed out the fact that an algo change doesn't mean the price is going to change to the upside until demand matches or exceeds new supply. Basic mathematics coupled with basic economics is resulting in the situation VTC is currently in.

What part of "it's a feature not a bug" do you not understand?

Also, didn't mean to jump on you about darkcoin, I just remembered seeing you in some monero thread(s) recently "not talking trash", so I thought I'd use darkcoin as a contrasting example to vert.

I'll simplify it for you: An algo change as a FEATURE (remaining ASIC resistant) isn't enough on its own to justify any price increases without further demand. Period.

As for the Monero thread, if false shit is going to be spread, it's going to be commented on. But keep going, we can dance circles if you want.

Yes changing the algo doesn't make you coin better. Look at Feathercoin. Everyone was hoping that changing the algo will affect the price. And the result ? A picture worths more than 10k words:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/feathercoin/#charts

[kirdney]

Does anyone know when they are gonna change the algo?

[jwinterm]

Does anyone know when they are gonna change the algo?

I've been hearing mid-December lately.

[kirdney]

Does anyone know when they are gonna change the algo?

I've been hearing mid-December lately.

Thanks!!

[POM]

Just showing my Vertans some love 

[voephilis]

Does anyone know when they are gonna change the algo?

I've been hearing mid-December lately.

Thanks!!

yes. mid - december seems to be final date!

[djnocide]

Does anyone know when they are gonna change the algo?

I've been hearing mid-December lately.

Thanks!!

yes. mid - december seems to be final date!

Not too far away, it will happen soon

[POM]

Is there a projected difficulty when the coin is available to mine on Lyra2RE? it's being forked correct?

[turtoro]

Yes changing the algo doesn't make you coin better. Look at Feathercoin. Everyone was hoping that changing the algo will affect the price. And the result ? A picture worths more than 10k words:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/feathercoin/#charts

FTC offers nothing new, same old same old, catering only to miners and their GPU farms doesnt work anymore, the scene has changed, VTC has better chances than FTC, because of the privacy feature.

Ummm, what exactly is Vtc then? Vtc is strictly a miners coin and thats it. It WILL not get merchant adoption to any  levels, so sx addresses are not even useful (which were useless anyway because its "anonymity lite"), but thats what everyone decided to go for back a months ago. A half measure is meaningless. Sx addresses were a neat novelty, but are absolutely useless. Stop making Vtc out to be a "privacy coin", it is simply not.

Miners coin=mine and sell. Why people are assuming an algo change is going to cause a huge spike in price is beyond me. It might stabilize at a slightly higher rate than the 0.05$ its at now, but not by much. And if it does start to go up a few percentage points, the market will be flooded by people dumping their holding trying to find an exit.

Zerocoin should have been added to vert, Vert should have been made a full out anon coin, the desicion made in the Spring to not do so was the biggest mistake in Verts existence.