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Author Topic: Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error  (Read 32328 times)
Vladimir
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September 02, 2011, 10:45:26 PM
 #161

Meh, I'm pretty sure 'value' is irrelevent before the fact its 'property' (parts of data). Once its property, all the judge is gonna ask is 'whats it worth?'.

The thing is. The judge will ask not you. The judge will ask an expert witness, probably invited by claimant. The expert will pull out mobile phone check current mtgox rate and say "As of this moment this day and this month of year 2012, based on current exchange rate on leading exchange, which is 356.33 $ per 1 BTC, fair market value of 512 BTC can be estimated as USD182440.96".

Numbers could vary, but you got the idea.

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DLowDAOG
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September 02, 2011, 10:45:30 PM
 #162


And I will reply to the judge, they are WORTHLESS, until they are sold at an exchange.

Anyhow, I am talking to my lawyer right now.  Will report what he says.

Not that that's an excuse that any judge would buy.  If it were, you could steal gold and claim the same thing.  But yeah, please do let us know what your lawyer says.

Again, bad analogy.  Gold has tremendous value on its own.  Bit coin data has no value.

But yeah ... talking to lawyer lol hold up I will be back
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September 02, 2011, 10:46:57 PM
 #163

work in progress

The victim has all the necessary information (including where the thief lives) to file a police report. I'm not sure it'd be kosher to publish it on a public forum, though. Lots of crazies around here Smiley


You are WRONG.  I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property.  Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now.  You ALL know this.  That is how the game goes.  Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you.

If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now.  NOT mine.  That is how BTC works.  WE ALL know this.

I am quite certain that's not how it works in Oregon.

Do we have this guy's real name and address?  This is definitely attorney-worthy.

I imagine you can find information searching google and other sites starting from alias BenDavis.

From already public informations, here's information that I found:

aliases: BenDavis, DLowDAOG


Stop being a detective pussy lmfaooo he already has my name, where I work, where I live, pictures of me, so stop being a little bitch and being a detective lmfaoooo you my friend, are a pussy.
defxor
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September 02, 2011, 10:47:08 PM
 #164

Gold has tremendous value

Please tell me the current value of 1 oz of gold, and what you did to get to that value.

johnj
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September 02, 2011, 10:47:53 PM
 #165


Again, can you explain how I am a thief, when I wake up and there are 511 BTC in my wallet?  Elaborate.  I do not see how that means theft.

Did you miss this part?

"Also, here's the Oregon law on the matter: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html

I'll quote the relevant section (164.015):
Quote
     (2) Commits theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake as provided in ORS 164.065;"


... thats what you did.

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September 02, 2011, 10:48:25 PM
 #166

LOL congrats super citizen!  But again, when I wake up and there are 511 BTC in my wallet, how did I take them?  Can you please explain where I took anything?

The tort of conversion does not require that you took it, only that you deprived the rightful owner of it.  So, it gets you off the hook for theft, in the sense you aren't liable in the same way as say had you gone into his house and stolen them from him.  But you are liable to him for the tort he suffers by you depriving him of it, which may very well include his legal costs in pursuing its return.

Remember the iPhone lost in a bar?  If your assumption is correct, Gizmodo should have been able to tell Apple, "Sorry, finder's keepers".  But of course, that's not the way it works in California, and that's not the way it works in Oregon either.

Hopefully for you, you're still anonymous.  If your identity is known, this is gonna bite ya in the ass one way or another!  Hopefully you got an extra $10k on top of the 511 BTC you stole to pay for his AND your attorney if and when it finally gets settled.  Best return it now.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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September 02, 2011, 10:49:43 PM
 #167

Gold has tremendous value

Please tell me the current value of 1 oz of gold, and what you did to get to that value.



I see where you are going with this.  Good point.
copumpkin
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September 02, 2011, 10:51:29 PM
 #168

Again, can you explain how I am a thief, when I wake up and there are 511 BTC in my wallet?  Elaborate.  I do not see how that means theft.

Did you miss my post citing

Quote
164.065 Theft of lost, mislaid property. A person who comes into control of property of another that the person knows or has good reason to know to have been lost, mislaid or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient, commits theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, the person fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to the owner. [1971 c.743 §126]

from the OR laws I linked to earlier?

Let me translate that:

You are a person. You came into control of property of another that you know to have been delivered under a mistake. You have committed theft, if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, you failed to take reasonable measures to restore that property to the owner.

What matters isn't you acting like badass on the internet, it's the law in your jurisdiction. And it puts you solidly in the wrong, regardless of any of your weak counterarguments.
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September 02, 2011, 10:51:58 PM
 #169


You are WRONG.  I am NOT in possession of anyone elses property.  Once the Bitcoin transfer was complete, it is MY property now.  You ALL know this.  That is how the game goes.  Stop acting like a bitch because you are jealous it didn't happen to you.

If I send you 500 BTC, it is YOUR property now.  NOT mine.  That is how BTC works.  WE ALL know this.

That is actually not true: read the article I linked.

Also, here's the Oregon law on the matter: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html

I'll quote the relevant section (164.015):
Quote
     (2) Commits theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake as provided in ORS 164.065;

Furthermore, because its value is greater than $1000 (164.055), it counts as a theft in the first degree.

Wrong.  The 511 BTC of data have ZERO value.  So, it is NOT greater than 1000 dollars.  It is ZERO dollars.  It only becomes dollars when it is traded to an exchange.  Come on now.  You are more intelligent then that.

Stop it B.  Stop it.

egold doesn't have any value until you exchange it either but that didn't stop the Justice Dept and the Treasury from going after them.
bitlane
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September 02, 2011, 10:52:05 PM
 #170

It's situations like this where the Community as a whole need to get involved and help the situation in a positive fasion any way they can.

1) All Mining Pool Operators should band together and maintain a SCAMMER IP BLACKLIST to keep people like this OUT of the Community and left mining Solo.

2) All Exchanges should also support this and BAN the receiver of the mistakenly sent funds so that they can not process or redeem them for actuall currency.

3) With the Proof provided, THIS FORUM in particular should remove the user and BAN for life due to Morality problems with said User.

4) Any and All information about the individual in question should be made available to the public along with the offense.

Bitcoin - the decentralized freedom cryptocurrency THAT IS IN DESPERATE NEED OF AN OFFICIAL GOVERNING BODY.

Other than knowingly benefitting from another Community Member's mistake during work to better the community - WHAT HAS THIS USER DONE FOR BITCOIN ?

Lastly, for every 20 panhandling losers asking for donations on this forum - there seems to be one who actually deserves it. This is one of those cases.

It's time for THE COMMUNITY to pull together and show that it is in fact a community.

I've always wondered what kind of price tag one might put on their dignity....and now I know: 511 BTC

DLowDAOG
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September 02, 2011, 10:52:19 PM
 #171

LOL congrats super citizen!  But again, when I wake up and there are 511 BTC in my wallet, how did I take them?  Can you please explain where I took anything?

The tort of conversion does not require that you took it, only that you deprived the rightful owner of it.  So, it gets you off the hook for theft, in the sense you aren't liable in the same way as say had you gone into his house and stolen them from him.  But you are liable to him for the tort he suffers by you depriving him of it, which may very well include his legal costs in pursuing its return.

Remember the iPhone lost in a bar?  If your assumption is correct, Gizmodo should have been able to tell Apple, "Sorry, finder's keepers".  But of course, that's not the way it works in California, and that's not the way it works in Oregon either.

Hopefully for you, you're still anonymous.  If your identity is known, this is gonna bite ya in the ass one way or another!  Hopefully you got an extra $10k on top of the 511 BTC you stole to pay for his AND your attorney if and when it finally gets settled.  Best return it now.

I can't wait to see what my lawyer says!
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September 02, 2011, 10:53:12 PM
 #172

Stop being a detective pussy lmfaooo he already has my name, where I work, where I live, pictures of me, so stop being a little bitch and being a detective lmfaoooo you my friend, are a pussy.

Perhaps, but that information is not yet publicated.  So, I'm working on finding out also.
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September 02, 2011, 10:54:22 PM
 #173

I'm curious about something.  A hypothetical situation.  If Ben was asleep while the coins were being sent to his wallet, which was stored in an encrypted file on his computer, and when he woke up, he couldn't remember the keys for decrypting that wallet file, would he still owe the sender the bitcoins?

Ave
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September 02, 2011, 10:56:02 PM
 #174

BenDavis give them their 511BTC , i need them to process my deposit.  Cool
sliderider
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September 02, 2011, 10:57:28 PM
 #175

This guy was allowed to be a customer and he knew d**n well by signing up what social contract he was getting into.

If I wake up in the morning, and I find 511 BTC in my account, how did I steal it?  Please explain that.

By not taking measures to return it to its rightful owner, and selling it as soon as you "found" it. As per the definition of theft in your state's laws.

How does he know his miner didn't find those bitcoins?
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September 02, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
 #176

Meh, I'm pretty sure 'value' is irrelevent before the fact its 'property' (parts of data). Once its property, all the judge is gonna ask is 'whats it worth?'.

The thing is. The judge will ask not you. The judge will ask an expert witness, probably invited by claimant. The expert will pull out mobile phone check current mtgox rate and say "As of this moment this day and this month of year 2012, based on current exchange rate on leading exchange, which is 356.33 $ per 1 BTC, fair market value of 512 BTC can be estimated as USD182440.96".

Numbers could vary, but you got the idea.


So called "expert witness" testimony has little value when the either the plaintiff or the defendant provides the "expert". They could be getting paid to testify in which case they will say whatever the person paying them wants them to say.
Vladimir
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September 02, 2011, 11:02:05 PM
 #177

So called "expert witness" testimony has little value when the either the plaintiff or the defendant provides the "expert". They could be getting paid to testify in which case they will say whatever the person paying them wants them to say.

kid, go see some court hearing related movies or something.

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johnj
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September 02, 2011, 11:03:46 PM
 #178

Meh, I'm pretty sure 'value' is irrelevent before the fact its 'property' (parts of data). Once its property, all the judge is gonna ask is 'whats it worth?'.

The thing is. The judge will ask not you. The judge will ask an expert witness, probably invited by claimant. The expert will pull out mobile phone check current mtgox rate and say "As of this moment this day and this month of year 2012, based on current exchange rate on leading exchange, which is 356.33 $ per 1 BTC, fair market value of 512 BTC can be estimated as USD182440.96".

Numbers could vary, but you got the idea.


So called "expert witness" testimony has little value when the either the plaintiff or the defendant provides the "expert". They could be getting paid to testify in which case they will say whatever the person paying them wants them to say.

Mt.Gox would be a freely available 3rd-party expert, i would imagine.

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copumpkin
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September 02, 2011, 11:04:11 PM
 #179

This guy was allowed to be a customer and he knew d**n well by signing up what social contract he was getting into.

If I wake up in the morning, and I find 511 BTC in my account, how did I steal it?  Please explain that.

By not taking measures to return it to its rightful owner, and selling it as soon as you "found" it. As per the definition of theft in your state's laws.

How does he know his miner didn't find those bitcoins?

He's admitted several times to "finding" them, and has admitted several times that they came from phantomcircuit. It'd be a tougher case to make if he hadn't, but he's dug himself into quite the hole already. We'll see what his cockiness wins him.
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September 02, 2011, 11:06:26 PM
 #180

So called "expert witness" testimony has little value when the either the plaintiff or the defendant provides the "expert". They could be getting paid to testify in which case they will say whatever the person paying them wants them to say.

kid, go see some court hearing related movies or something.


All a competent attorney has to do is ask them if they are being paid to appear in court and that will cast doubt in the minds of any jury. Not only have I seen movies, I've served on juries. How about you? And I'm no kid. I'm probably old enough to be your father. 
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