Exchange accidentally sent 512 bitcoins after coding error

[skilo]

If this had happened in the land of USD then the transaction could probably be reversed and the poor guy that accidentally received all this money would probably have the police knocking on his door.

But this aint USD land lol and there aint no btc police or corporate banks in control here, This is the world of BTC and if you make a mistake here it will cost you dearly.

Its the fault of the guy that made the coding error, Not the fault of the guy that got the BTC accidentally.

It's his money now and what he chooses to do with it is up to him, You can argue morality here if you want but it would be irrelevant.

Al it boils down to is this, Someone made an error and that error cost them alot of BTC.

Tuff luck.

[casascius]

Dude probably could have recovered a portion if he didn't try to strong-arm the guy infront of other people.
"Please"
"Finders Fee"
"How can we work this out"
I didn't see any of those approaches.
Edit: I did see a lot of
"Theif"
"Calling the Police"
"Felony charges"
When dude tried strong-arming infront of others, other dude naturally felt compelled not to appear 'weak'.

I disagree.  If the thief is dishonorable enough to steal this from somebody else who is already extending himself by offering him a service at no charge, I don't see how talking about a "finder's fee" is going to make that much of a difference.  If a rapist feels entitled to rape you just because he happens upon an unhindered opportunity, is "how can we work this out" going to make much of a difference?  Maybe you can negotiate it down to just a kiss or a grope?

[Gabi]

It's a flaw in their script

That's how they take care of the money of other people? 

[casascius]

Its the fault of the guy that made the coding error, Not the fault of the guy that got the BTC accidentally.
...
Al it boils down to is this, Someone made an error and that error cost them alot of BTC.

Tuff luck.

Errors are going to happen, so I guess it is the fault of the guy who provided a BTC-related service.  He should have known better than to consider doing such a thing.

Perhaps he should have made a USD-related service.

Fuck you, you're no help to Bitcoin.

[johnj]

I disagree.  If the thief is dishonorable enough to steal this from somebody else who is already extending himself by offering him a service at no charge, I don't see how talking about a "finder's fee" is going to make that much of a difference.  If a rapist feels entitled to rape you just because he happens upon an unhindered opportunity, is "how can we work this out" going to make much of a difference?

Coding error which sent bitcoins =/= rape.  Equating the two makes no sense.

Waking up to find 512 btc in your account =/= stealing/thieving.

"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".  A few kind words at the beginning could have gone a long way.

[N12]

Having people take coins that don't belong to them doesn't represent the "real world"... unless you're talking about the uncivil portion of the world where everybody is poor and outlook is bleak.  To you who took the coins and claimed they were yours to keep, I consider you equivalent to a scammer.  You took advantage of a service someone provided you as a favor, and you stole something with the nonsensical justification that you "could".

That's the same way it works in poor neighborhoods.  No one there has anything, and part of that is because they have to spend their life protecting what little they've got, because someone else feels justified to take it just because it's not locked down.  That's not the way to prosperity.  No one gets ahead except at somebody else's expense - the net result is the entire community stands still.  On the other hand, in less desperate places, opportunities to steal are boundless, but people rarely take advantage of it because they choose to do things that get them ahead without setting somebody else back - community thrives and prospers as a whole.

If the idea is that the person who built the service that sent the coins is in error and should have known better, perhaps you're right.  Perhaps he should have known better than to provide a useful service and pitch in his time and talents to provide something to improve the bitcoin community.  Perhaps no one should do a damn thing for Bitcoin and take the risk that a fucker like you might grab their nuts and twist them.

What a fucker you are.  I don't know you, or the person you stole from (yes, stole), but I will be very gratified if I ever hear you got your ass handed to you for this.

This theft is a setback for all of us as a community.

I fully agree. I’m getting sick of the "fuck you, got mine" here, and that people show sympathy for such people at all, even saying they would have done the same.

There’s just so much scum here it’s not even funny.

[N12]

Waking up to find 512 btc in your account =/= stealing/thieving.

He sold those Bitcoins shortly thereafter. So yes, it is stealing.

[indio007]

All I can say are all the people in the thread that think he has no obligation to return the property are dead wrong.  i've seen many people are the mistaken belief that unless the law is written down and specific you can operate outside of it. That is a mistake. They are confusing malem in se and malem prohibitum.

[johnj]

Waking up to find 512 btc in your account =/= stealing/thieving.

He sold those Bitcoins shortly thereafter. So yes, it is stealing.

Ahh yes, that part is certainly the shadiest of the story.

What I find interesting is many folk around here will make fun of the USD when millions get stolen, but when it comes to bitcoin, suddenly they're violating the purest of pures.

While I agree it would have been honorable to return most/all of the bitcoins, I also think this would have happened if the guy who made the mistake to begin with approached the dude with a little more humility.

[N12]

Are you serious? He sold them before the conversation started, so his intentions were very clear. You think a nice tone would have changed this?

Good to know how to approach scammers for the future though: "Could you please give me my money back? "

[johnj]

Are you serious? He sold them before the conversation started, so his intentions were very clear. You think a nice tone would have changed this?

Good to know how to approach scammers for the future though: "Could you please give me my money back? "

Yeah, it could have changed things.  Dude upon waking up and finding 500+ bitcoins may have gotton excited and let his greed get the best of him.  As easy as it was to sell, its just as easy to buy back.  But we'll never know because both parties wanted to be a tough guy.

How to approach someone who has you by the balls?  Hint: Not forcefully.

[JeffK]

Waking up to find 512 btc in your account =/= stealing/thieving.

He sold those Bitcoins shortly thereafter. So yes, it is stealing.

Transactions aren't reversible by design - those Bitcoins are now his.

You can't have it both ways people - you cannot have a system with 'no chargebacks' but call the lack of a receiving party to return mistakenly sent funds 'theft'.

Any and all rsposibility, if any at this point, falls on the programmer who coded this, not the person who received the funds.

[Vladimir]

Irreversible transactions do not make honour, ethic and law irrelevant.

[PinkiePie]

Look, Bitcoin is for people who are able to take personal responsibility for their actions.  If you want a do-over in your transactions stay out of bitcoin and go run a credit union or something, you socialist.

You sound just like an American banker begging for a bailout, that isn't how it works in bitcoin.  If you make a mistake, you pay for it, and that's how you learn not to make the same mistake twice.  I propose it would be unethical for him to return the money, as that would undercut your lesson and make you think you can be careless again with your bitcoins in the future.  Maybe he should donate it to charity or a church.

Laws and regulations do nothing but choke the free market, if you can't live without them, you have no place here. 

[sasser]

What goes around, comes around...

logical fallacy

[sliderider]

I remember similar situations cropping up on egold many years ago. Spends are irreversible so it is up to you to make sure that they are getting sent to the person they are supposed to go to. If you become momentarily dyslexic and switch two digits in an account number and send the money to the wrong person, it's not beholden on them to give it back as egold considered the transaction to be legitimate even if it was in error. It was also up to the exchangers to make sure their scripts were error free so mistakes like this one didn't happen. An exchanger with a poorly written script would be fully liable for any losses they incurred as a result of the malfunctioning code.

Mining pool organizers also need to watch their code carefully to make sure payments don't go out to the wrong pool members because once someone gets more than they're entitled to, the most you can do is boot them from the pool and spread the word to other pool organizers if they choose not to give the money back then all the resources spent on that block by all the pool members will have been wasted.

[sliderider]

All I can say are all the people in the thread that think he has no obligation to return the property are dead wrong.  i've seen many people are the mistaken belief that unless the law is written down and specific you can operate outside of it. That is a mistake. They are confusing malem in se and malem prohibitum.

When you join the bitcoin system you agree that spends are permanent and non-refundable. You essentially agree that any spends made from your account in error are all on you. It's like if you go to work for a company that requires a confidentiality agreement and then you go to their competitor and tell them all you know about how the other company does business and they find out about it and sue you. You can't claim 1st Amendment, freedom of speech as a defense because you signed away that right when you took the job and put your name on the confidentiality agreement.

[skilo]

In this economy that we are in now i dont see how anyone can argue ethics here at all.

Maybe the guy that got the BTC accidentally was in a bad spot financially, maybe his family was starving, maybe he really needed the money etc.

Why is this argument even taking place right now? the BTC is gone! and it aint never coming back, you made an error and lost some BTC have some personal accountability and get over it.

[Surawit]

Irreversible transactions do not make honour, ethic and law irrelevant.

I agree sir. With the numerous scams and claims occuring these days, I propose we set up a sortof "BitCourt" where these cases can be heard... the judges could be trusted members of the community who are elected every few years or so, that way if there is any corruption the MARKET will move to eliminate it. The bitcoin client will have to be modified to enforce their decisions, but this is a small price to pay to ensure that values like honour and integrity are upheld and our currency flourishes.

[Vladimir]

In this economy that we are in now i dont see how anyone can argue ethics here at all.

No doubts! It seems that most of population here does not even know what ethic is, let alone at least trying to act ethically, not even at least sometimes.