[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[coins101]

.... Who else is going to help? Chaositec? Who only recently joined this project because it was cheap enough? Oh wait no? He must be back in the cruise ship for another two weeks..

For all the trolling that XC, Monero, xyzcoin people have done, this is the most disgusting I have ever seen by an order of magnitude that leaves me almost speechless.

A DASH / Darkcoin long time 'supporter' has decided to troll Cache and Spreadcoin. That I don't particularly care about. The ignore button works all over the BCT forum.

Attacking Chaositec who basically gave away almost all of his Darkcoin's in an effort to promote Darkcoin is beyond reproach.

It is the definition of cowardly trolling as this person decided to create a new account specifically to troll in other threads, and attack people that helped this project, in one way or another, almost from the start.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope it's a Monero troll that has decided to pretend to troll and leave a trail that points towards a Darkcoin / DASH supporter.

We constantly fight off troll attacks in this thread and other spuriously created threads. I've spent many weeks and months of my spare time fighting those trolls, so its business as usual seeing another troll.

But this is the first time I've seen something that, on the face of it, is evidence that Darkcoin people can instigate that trolling.

Obviously, people writing shit on the internet is up to them. But right now, I'm appalled if this particular troll attack against Chaositec has come from a long-term Darkcoin / DASH supporter.

If you're reading this and you know who you are, you should be fucking ashamed of yourself you coward.

[noobtrader]

reading about sidechain, can dash create sidechain and uses it ? say scripting ? or just a place to test new feature etc ?

[toknormal]

But right now, I'm applaud if this particular troll attack against Chaositec has come from a long-term Darkcoin / DASH supporter.

I take it thats the slow hand clap type of "applaud" you're referring to 

[coins101]

But right now, I'm appalled* if this particular troll attack against Chaositec has come from a long-term Darkcoin / DASH supporter.

I take it thats the slow hand clap type of "applaud" you're referring to  

Fucking fuming at this cunt.

Thanks, I'll edit it.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

ShapeShift.io has released the first-ever cryptocurrency exchange app for iPhone. Buy or sell DASH instantly and on-the-go with the ShapeShift App.

Download the app: http://apple.co/1FU6Njm

Learn about the app in this Forbes article: http://onforb.es/1dtZqVX

NOTE: ShapeShift will be adding their Android app soon. Stay tuned!

Great work! Awesome news for DASH.

[toknormal]

reading about sidechain, can dash create sidechain and uses it ? say scripting ? or just a place to test new feature etc ?

Wait a minute. Lets stop and think about this.


Sidechains is just about the worst cryptocurrency concept ever invented IMO.

In fact it's so bad it could only have been invented by crypto-tinted spec wearing cryptographers under the illusion that the planet will stop rotating the moment they stop churning out code to cryptographically connect everything that moves to everything else that moves and then connect that to everything that doesn't. (Hey, wadyaknow, it was !)

The idea is that bitcoin grows "octpus arms" which are other crypto-currencies able to do the stuff that bitcoin can't (like fast confirmation if needed, anonymity, markets - whatever). Basically the things that altcoins already do.

This idea is not born out of hope, inspiration, creativity or vision. It is born out of FEAR. Fear that altcoins will somehow "dilute" bitcoin's marketcap / appeal / useability / popularity - whatever you want to call it. FEAR that any changes made to bitcoin's tech might affect its valuation adversely.

So the answer is apparently to completely destroy bitcoin's already compromised fungibility by wrapping a load of the coin supply in an "alt-coin crispy coating" and sending it into realms where "no bitcoin has gone before". The way you do that is send your BTC to a special address where it gets "locked up". Simultaneously, an amount of altcoin gets created according to the pegged BTC-ALT ratio (presumably determined by a centralised cryptographic authority). Then you operate in your market of choice in the comfort that your alt is "bitcoin backed" (not by markets but by 'electric-arc-welding') before melting your altcoin-change back into the ether and recovering your trusty old BTC from the sacred vaults.

When I first saw this idea I thought it must be a joke but in fact it is a serious attempt at creating the frankenstinien monster of markets since the designers appear to see the market as a "player" in their technological game rather than reality - which is precisely the reverse.

I think the only way I can adequately express my opinion of the logic behind this is by analogy with an aircraft designer who feels the airliner needs to be capable - after it lands - of folding its wings and driving all the passengers through the city streets right to their doorsteps. "Otherwise it clearly isn't going to work !"  

*************************************************
(P.S. Despite my wee rant, I always remain open minded about new technologies so am prepared to be persuaded - but it better be good  )
*************************************************

P.P.S. In case anyone needs the problems with this approach spelled out, here's a couple for starters:

[1] - the solution only works when you have control of the ENTIRE market. Otherwise you haven't even solved the first design goal of protecting bitcoin's market cap from dilution since non sidechained alt coins will simply emerge to compete with the side chained ones

[2] - although from a technical perspective it looks like a bitcoin-centric solution, from a global market perspective you've simply re-invented the market for alts because the implicit demand is for the side chain currency, not bitcoin and therefore freely traded specialised altcoins are just as likely to find their way into those markets as bitcoin-proxies are

[3] - it totally screws the fungibility of bitcoin to kingdom come because some parts of the coin supply will be in high demand (due to a particular sidechained currency liquidity requirement) whereas others won't. The demand from a particular sidechain however will affect the valuation of ALL bitcoin (thats the idea). So even if you're holding BTC that isn't serving as sidechain collateral, your holding value will go up. The obvious market response to this situation is described in point [2], at which point your bitcoin value plummets again - nothing to do with your own holding, everything to do with another part of the coin supply losing its appeal (note - the sector that generated the demand for the sidechain liquidity remains buoyant, it just found another solution)

[4] - there exist far more elegant, non-cryptographic monetary solutions that take the above points into account - such as Bitshares which is a liquidity engine for disparate markets requiring stable-valued currencies backed by a common cryptocurrency asset (without the need for electric-arc-welding of the interface between the collateral and the operating currency)

[5] - altcoins are already backed by bitcoin to a large extent because they are priced in bitcoin, effectively giving it reserve status with respect to the entire altcoin market. So alts can gain or lose value against BTC - so what ? It's still good for bitcoin that they penetrate markets where it can't and ultimately underwrite bitcoin's value as well as their own. So all sidechains is doing is reproducing symbolically what the market is doing economically. As I say a "Frankenstein" of crypto.

[Sub-Ether]

EB82 – Mike Hearn - Blocksize Debate At The Breaking Point
https://soundcloud.com/epicenterbitcoin/eb-082

Looks like we are approaching the Bitcoin revolution Revolution in Bitcoin.  But seriously, he has a really interesting vision about all kind of general Bitcoin issues.

Excellent! that google maps dude knows his stuff
So 'whats app' managed 1 million messages per second on 1,000 networked computers.
And simple maths would make 2.5 million messages = 2,500 masternode computers , and does 1 message count as 1 possible off chain financial transaction then ? hmmm...

[AzzAz]

This is what it's all about

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/357

Thank you http://btcsoft.com/ team! 

Great catch! thank you once again!

Anyone considering using funds (gonna-be-raised-from-MN's) for improvements like this?

[coins101]

....[2] - although from a technical perspective it looks like a bitcoin-centric solution, from a global market perspective you've simply re-invented the market for alts because the implicit demand is for the side chain currency, not bitcoin and therefore freely traded specialised altcoins are just as likely to find their way into those markets as bitcoin-proxies
....

I've been wondering about this for a few months now.

I think that moving in and out of a side chain is a disposal event for tax purposes, in particular moving from a currency to something that has asset like functions.

There is some guidance from HM Revenue & Customs  http://search.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/hmrc/results.page?qt=chargeable+event

It sounds odd, but it's not when you think about it like this:

Transferring cash to your bank account is moving the same asset from one place to another.

If you have an account linked to a stock trading account (cough, cough), moving your cash to that account is still moving the same asset. But when you move that cash into stocks, you are changing the nature of the asset. For which you get charged stamp duty.

When you sell the shares, its a disposal event for which you have to calculate capital gains income or losses.

If you move from BTC to another type of asset, its like moving from cash to stocks.  This is probably not an issue for the immediate future, but if BTC begins to take on recognized currency characteristics in the future, it could be an issue.

I guess this would likely apply to moving between DASH and BTC, etc. But those might be considered as currency dealing, which is not the same as moving between currency and assets.

Its only a theory, but I really think this could be a problem for side chains. It obviously needs them to get official clearance at some point from authorities,

[celestio]

....[2] - although from a technical perspective it looks like a bitcoin-centric solution, from a global market perspective you've simply re-invented the market for alts because the implicit demand is for the side chain currency, not bitcoin and therefore freely traded specialised altcoins are just as likely to find their way into those markets as bitcoin-proxies
....

I've been wondering about this for a few months now.

I think that moving in and out of a side chain is a disposal event for tax purposes, in particular moving from a currency to something that has asset like functions.

There is some guidance from HM Revenue & Customs  http://search.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/hmrc/results.page?qt=chargeable+event

It sounds odd, but it's not when you think about it like this:

Transferring cash to your bank account is moving the same asset from one place to another.

If you have an account linked to a stock trading account (cough, cough), moving your cash to that account is still moving the same asset. But when you move that cash into stocks, you are changing the nature of the asset. For which you get charged stamp duty.

When you sell the shares, its a disposal event for which you have to calculate capital gains income or losses.

If you move from BTC to another type of asset, its like moving from cash to stocks.  This is probably not an issue for the immediate future, but if BTC begins to take on recognized currency characteristics in the future, it could be an issue.

I guess this would likely apply to moving between DASH and BTC, etc. But those might be considered as currency dealing, which is not the same as moving between currency and assets.

Its only a theory, but I really think this could be a problem for side chains. It obviously needs them to get official clearance at some point from authorities,

One of the few things I agree on. The demand might be for the specific (x)sidechain itself instead of transferring back to Bitcoin, users might just use (x)sidechain indefinitely for whatever reason(micropayments, etc), just like they do with altcoins, especially since the value of each (x)sidechain coin is proportionately tied to that of BTC(?). It reminds me of a decentralized exchange.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

This is what it's all about

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/357

Thank you http://btcsoft.com/ team! 

https://twitter.com/taoofsatoshi/status/608361304345214976

[coins101]

.....

Well, this points the way of what sidechains might get used for - ring signatures, and then possibly zerocash at some point - and there is even mention of coinjoin.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/394k1t/petertoddbtc_gregory_maxwells_confidental/

GMaxwell even has a ring sig paper out on it - see pdf within the r/bitcoin thread linked to above

[bitcreditscc]

reading about sidechain, can dash create sidechain and uses it ? say scripting ? or just a place to test new feature etc ?

Wait a minute. Lets stop and think about this.


Sidechains is just about the worst cryptocurrency concept ever invented IMO.

In fact it's so bad it could only have been invented by crypto-tinted spec wearing cryptographers under the illusion that the planet will stop rotating the moment they stop churning out code to cryptographically connect everything that moves to everything else that moves and then connect that to everything that doesn't. (Hey, wadyaknow, it was !)

The idea is that bitcoin grows "octpus arms" which are other crypto-currencies able to do the stuff that bitcoin can't (like fast confirmation if needed, anonymity, markets - whatever). Basically the things that altcoins already do.

This idea is not born out of hope, inspiration, creativity or vision. It is born out of FEAR. Fear that altcoins will somehow "dilute" bitcoin's marketcap / appeal / useability / popularity - whatever you want to call it. FEAR that any changes made to bitcoin's tech might affect its valuation adversely.

So the answer is apparently to completely destroy bitcoin's already compromised fungibility by wrapping a load of the coin supply in an "alt-coin crispy coating" and sending it into realms where "no bitcoin has gone before". The way you do that is send your BTC to a special address where it gets "locked up". Simultaneously, an amount of altcoin gets created according to the pegged BTC-ALT ratio (presumably determined by a centralised cryptographic authority). Then you operate in your market of choice in the comfort that your alt is "bitcoin backed" (not by markets but by 'electric-arc-welding') before melting your altcoin-change back into the ether and recovering your trusty old BTC from the sacred vaults.

When I first saw this idea I thought it must be a joke but in fact it is a serious attempt at creating the frankenstinien monster of markets since the designers appear to see the market as a "player" in their technological game rather than reality - which is precisely the reverse.

I think the only way I can adequately express my opinion of the logic behind this is by analogy with an aircraft designer who feels the airliner needs to be capable - after it lands - of folding its wings and driving all the passengers through the city streets right to their doorsteps. "Otherwise it clearly isn't going to work !"  

*************************************************
(P.S. Despite my wee rant, I always remain open minded about new technologies so am prepared to be persuaded - but it better be good  )
*************************************************

P.P.S. In case anyone needs the problems with this approach spelled out, here's a couple for starters:

[1] - the solution only works when you have control of the ENTIRE market. Otherwise you haven't even solved the first design goal of protecting bitcoin's market cap from dilution since non sidechained alt coins will simply emerge to compete with the side chained ones

[2] - although from a technical perspective it looks like a bitcoin-centric solution, from a global market perspective you've simply re-invented the market for alts because the implicit demand is for the side chain currency, not bitcoin and therefore freely traded specialised altcoins are just as likely to find their way into those markets as bitcoin-proxies are

[3] - it totally screws the fungibility of bitcoin to kingdom come because some parts of the coin supply will be in high demand (due to a particular sidechained currency liquidity requirement) whereas others won't. The demand from a particular sidechain however will affect the valuation of ALL bitcoin (thats the idea). So even if you're holding BTC that isn't serving as sidechain collateral, your holding value will go up. The obvious market response to this situation is described in point [2], at which point your bitcoin value plummets again - nothing to do with your own holding, everything to do with another part of the coin supply losing its appeal (note - the sector that generated the demand for the sidechain liquidity remains buoyant, it just found another solution)

[4] - there exist far more elegant, non-cryptographic monetary solutions that take the above points into account - such as Bitshares which is a liquidity engine for disparate markets requiring stable-valued currencies backed by a common cryptocurrency asset (without the need for electric-arc-welding of the interface between the collateral and the operating currency)

[5] - altcoins are already backed by bitcoin to a large extent because they are priced in bitcoin, effectively giving it reserve status with respect to the entire altcoin market. So alts can gain or lose value against BTC - so what ? It's still good for bitcoin that they penetrate markets where it can't and ultimately underwrite bitcoin's value as well as their own. So all sidechains is doing is reproducing symbolically what the market is doing economically. As I say a "Frankenstein" of crypto.

Glad at least some people are not sheep. Just because it was developed by some core devs does not make it a great idea. This idea is basically centralizing all sidechains to Bitcoin. centralization, not the mining centralization you were fearing, but actual protocol and monetary centralization.

[DonQuijote]

Hello friends,
I have seen that Dash has been removed from https://bitcoinwisdom.com/ (bittrex, polo...market) could someone contact them?

[WastedLTC]

Hello friends,
I have seen that Dash has been removed from https://bitcoinwisdom.com/ (bittrex, polo...market) could someone contact them?

yea, not sure why they would remove crapsy but you can still access it directly.   Having it removed kills the volumne on the home wisdom page which sucks.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/drkbtc

and bitfinex
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/drkbtc

[Sub-Ether]

I am getting deja vu more and more 

[TanteStefana2]

This is what it's all about

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/357

Thank you http://btcsoft.com/ team! 

WOW - That was a really good read :-D
teehee

Very cool, thank you btcsoft!  And thank you Crowning and UdjinM6 for your quick resolution!

[bluebit25]

Best looking masternode ever? My Raspberry Pi came 1 day early and I couldn't resist putting it in a nice fancy case  I'll keep everyone updated on my progress trying to get this masternode up and running on a mac. 

[toknormal]

Rant

Just to balance up my rant a bit, one thing that sidechains look useful for is as pseudo-live 'testnets' for bitcoin. For example, Greg Maxwell's confidential transactions went live today on a sidechain: move bitcoin into sidechain --> anonymise --> move out of sidechain.

The sidechain serves as a kind of test for new bitcoin tech, it's live, but doesn't destroy bitcoin if it screws up. Later they cherry pick stuff to move into bitcoin core.

I quite like that aspect of it.

[bluebit25]

Yea, it's a copper heat sink. Looks better in real life than in the photo. It really shines in the light.

I got the case from Adafruit, they have lots of different ones. Mine cost as much as a Raspberry Pi, a little expensive, but totally worth the looks: https://www.adafruit.com/products/2346