[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[noobtrader]

reading about sidechain, can dash create sidechain and uses it ? say scripting ? or just a place to test new feature etc ?

Wait a minute. Lets stop and think about this.


Sidechains is just about the worst cryptocurrency concept ever invented IMO.

In fact it's so bad it could only have been invented by crypto-tinted spec wearing cryptographers under the illusion that the planet will stop rotating the moment they stop churning out code to cryptographically connect everything that moves to everything else that moves and then connect that to everything that doesn't. (Hey, wadyaknow, it was !)

The idea is that bitcoin grows "octpus arms" which are other crypto-currencies able to do the stuff that bitcoin can't (like fast confirmation if needed, anonymity, markets - whatever). Basically the things that altcoins already do.

This idea is not born out of hope, inspiration, creativity or vision. It is born out of FEAR. Fear that altcoins will somehow "dilute" bitcoin's marketcap / appeal / useability / popularity - whatever you want to call it. FEAR that any changes made to bitcoin's tech might affect its valuation adversely.

So the answer is apparently to completely destroy bitcoin's already compromised fungibility by wrapping a load of the coin supply in an "alt-coin crispy coating" and sending it into realms where "no bitcoin has gone before". The way you do that is send your BTC to a special address where it gets "locked up". Simultaneously, an amount of altcoin gets created according to the pegged BTC-ALT ratio (presumably determined by a centralised cryptographic authority). Then you operate in your market of choice in the comfort that your alt is "bitcoin backed" (not by markets but by 'electric-arc-welding') before melting your altcoin-change back into the ether and recovering your trusty old BTC from the sacred vaults.

When I first saw this idea I thought it must be a joke but in fact it is a serious attempt at creating the frankenstinien monster of markets since the designers appear to see the market as a "player" in their technological game rather than reality - which is precisely the reverse.

I think the only way I can adequately express my opinion of the logic behind this is by analogy with an aircraft designer who feels the airliner needs to be capable - after it lands - of folding its wings and driving all the passengers through the city streets right to their doorsteps. "Otherwise it clearly isn't going to work !"  

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(P.S. Despite my wee rant, I always remain open minded about new technologies so am prepared to be persuaded - but it better be good  )
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P.P.S. In case anyone needs the problems with this approach spelled out, here's a couple for starters:

[1] - the solution only works when you have control of the ENTIRE market. Otherwise you haven't even solved the first design goal of protecting bitcoin's market cap from dilution since non sidechained alt coins will simply emerge to compete with the side chained ones

[2] - although from a technical perspective it looks like a bitcoin-centric solution, from a global market perspective you've simply re-invented the market for alts because the implicit demand is for the side chain currency, not bitcoin and therefore freely traded specialised altcoins are just as likely to find their way into those markets as bitcoin-proxies are

[3] - it totally screws the fungibility of bitcoin to kingdom come because some parts of the coin supply will be in high demand (due to a particular sidechained currency liquidity requirement) whereas others won't. The demand from a particular sidechain however will affect the valuation of ALL bitcoin (thats the idea). So even if you're holding BTC that isn't serving as sidechain collateral, your holding value will go up. The obvious market response to this situation is described in point [2], at which point your bitcoin value plummets again - nothing to do with your own holding, everything to do with another part of the coin supply losing its appeal (note - the sector that generated the demand for the sidechain liquidity remains buoyant, it just found another solution)

[4] - there exist far more elegant, non-cryptographic monetary solutions that take the above points into account - such as Bitshares which is a liquidity engine for disparate markets requiring stable-valued currencies backed by a common cryptocurrency asset (without the need for electric-arc-welding of the interface between the collateral and the operating currency)

[5] - altcoins are already backed by bitcoin to a large extent because they are priced in bitcoin, effectively giving it reserve status with respect to the entire altcoin market. So alts can gain or lose value against BTC - so what ? It's still good for bitcoin that they penetrate markets where it can't and ultimately underwrite bitcoin's value as well as their own. So all sidechains is doing is reproducing symbolically what the market is doing economically. As I say a "Frankenstein" of crypto.

oh...
all i know that sidechain could add more burden to their blockchain size.
but yes from the info i think they want to mimic nxt, ethereum and xmr. still they cannot mimic dash, because there were no way to add masternode in btc.

[noobtrader]

[just deleted post b/c I mis-understood what the ABOVE reply was saying]

moving on......... lol


edit2: - NOPE - I was right - had to read it again and again - and again


BTC could ABSOLUTELY add MasterNodes to "their" system

Please explain what you mean - and - PLEASE do not say - because they will not fork-it

I'd like to read your technical analysis of the situation - please :-D

adding masternode in in btc will be like another reward halfing to big miner

[bluebit25]

This is sooo cool, might come in handy. IP LCD Interface for Raspberry Pi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntMhqB9ce3M

[noobtrader]

[just deleted post b/c I mis-understood what the ABOVE reply was saying]

moving on......... lol


edit2: - NOPE - I was right - had to read it again and again - and again


BTC could ABSOLUTELY add MasterNodes to "their" system

Please explain what you mean - and - PLEASE do not say - because they will not fork-it

I'd like to read your technical analysis of the situation - please :-D

adding masternode in in btc will be like another reward halfing to big miner

Uh yeah - but that is not a technical analysis - that is a statement of the obvious....

Like I thought  - you don't have a technical analysis - you want to state the obvious

Mining BTC is not possible for the common man or woman and be profitable
BTC mining has turned into the SAME system, so to speak, of corporate greed - BIG - FAT - SLOW and OFF LIMITS to us common folks

At least with a MasterNode - me being a common folk - I can run a Node that ACTUALLY gets paid.....
You ever see a BTC Node pay somebody - lol - uh - NO!!
[(You ever suck dick for some weed? -NO!!) - love that movie - lol - funny shit]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dzDb5v744

Crypto is about THE PEOPLE and not about corporate greed
[Useless you're a shit-coin-fucking-SCAM - or BTC]


The more decentralized we - DASH - can make crypto - DASH - the harder it will be to kill

Once that genie is out of the bag - forget about it - oh wait, it already is.....


What are THEY gonna do?
Turn off the NET?
Turn off the electric to the entire world?

I don't think so......

Bringing "HARM" to the BTC miners would be the BEST thing to happen to BTC - but - A BTC MN would cost $230,000.00 right now so I'd be shit out of luck as would most of the ALT folks -


I await your response......



edit1: Don't hold your breathe folks - I seriously doubt that we have a winner here [sarcasm]
[Just in case some folks don't know what sarcasm is.... it's very - joke "like"]
but seriously......[again - SARCASM]

ugh

well i agree with you, btc is more and more centralized.
and yes like you said technically its possible to create system which btc masternode get paid. in fact i think its possible to create system which implement pos-pow-masternode. but in real world you might as well create new alt-coin because btc big miner most likely will not accept this proposal.

EDIT : i cant wait to buy more dash

[stonehedge]

I hope I wasn't to hard on the Limey's
NO - not you UK fuck's because I still luv's you UK'er's / Lime'y bastards - WOOT!!!

LMAFO

Read on: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=895425.msg11580482#msg11580482



yeah - I can live with the above cross - post


NOW DASHER - NOW.....




edit: God forbid I cause somebody to make a RudolfCoin - just in time for Christmas 2015 - ugh

I don't know anything other than what is in the LIMX OP but that is a lot of hate for a fork of an open source project.  It doesn't portray you or Dash in a very positive light at all.

I also think that to post language like the following alongside the Dash logo is vile.

1 - ATTACK the FUCK out of DASH - Yeah, you heard me - ATTACK DASH like a BITCH looking for some dick on her last egg. I don't mean go and VERBAL attack DASH - I want to see people CODING to attack DASH - Try to find a way to BREAK DASH - MAKE me say I'm sorry as I watch DASH get fucked in the ass - come on you fucking tards - let me watch as you rape my babies..... I think you get the point.....

[toknormal]

You had to be a blindfolded flatworm walking backwards in the pitch dark

Amazing. Seems those actually exist....

This is what organic market movement looks like.

[toknormal]

FADES TO BLACK.......................................

Are you working on the new Dash promotion video by any chance ?

Too many late nights ?

[coins101]

...FADES TO BLACK.......................................

Don't you mean fades to Blue?

Anyway, you can't do that. You were missed when you were exiled by the mods. But your cloak and dagger appearance was one of the funniest things that's happened around here in ages.

[stonehedge]

...FADES TO BLACK.......................................

Don't you mean fades to Blue?

Anyway, you can't do that. You were missed when you were exiled by the mods. But your cloak and dagger appearance was one of the funniest things that's happened around here in ages.

Sounds like I missed a lot of fun in the few months I haven't kept up with this thread!

[Rux]

stonehedge, nice to see you my bro 

you did miss a lot...but nothing that you cannot figure out for your self

[stonehedge]

stonehedge, nice to see you my bro 

you did miss a lot...but nothing that you cannot figure out for your self

Cheers mate!

I needed some time to lick my wounds but I'm back and I'll read the last 100 pages or so

[splawik21]

stonehedge, nice to see you my bro 

you did miss a lot...but nothing that you cannot figure out for your self

Cheers mate!

I needed some time to lick my wounds but I'm back and I'll read the last 100 pages or so

hehe Rux i`ve PMed stone with the same msg

[Rux]

splawik, i have 200 DASH laying around, have rest to team up for another frendly MN ?

cmmon guys, who want to team up to start one more MN ? cmmon let me see community

lets build 1st comunity Masternode

[splawik21]

splawik, i have 200 DASH laying around, have rest to team up for another frendly MN ?

cmmon guys, who want to team up to start one more MN ? cmmon let me see community

lets build 1st comunity Masternode

You know where ot find me

[DonQuijote]

Hello friends,
I have seen that Dash has been removed from https://bitcoinwisdom.com/ (bittrex, polo...market) could someone contact them?

yea, not sure why they would remove crapsy but you can still access it directly.   Having it removed kills the volumne on the home wisdom page which sucks.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/drkbtc

and bitfinex
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/drkbtc

Thanks @WastedLTC

[Sub-Ether]

Cube of the day 

[Sub-Ether]

Off topic (but juicy) wednesdays with a global outlook by Dr. Jim Willie
http://www.oneradionetwork2.com/mp3/money/economy/06.09.15_willie_jim.mp3

Says John Kerry was shot in an assassination attempt in France recently and not a bike accident !!!
And the reason the Cyprus banks were shut down was because Russia was using them to buy gold and the western hegemony could not allow that.

[toknormal]

Cube of the day 

I don't quite get that.

Is it trying to show that the ledger can be censored by anybody if data is put on it 'on-chain' ?

[Sub-Ether]

I don't quite get that.
Is it trying to show that the ledger can be censored by anybody if data is put on it 'on-chain' ?

Agree, and also,its the 2 worlds of on chain and off chain systems, perhaps merging the totally inefficient bitcoin ledger coupled with the fast efficient off chain asset/record system of ripple  masternodes
http://gendal.me/2015/01/15/cost-trust-something-else-whats-the-killer-app-for-block-chain-technology/
''Bitcoin is deliberately less efficient than a centralized ledger! Its design adds really difficult engineering constraints to what we already had. How could this technology possibly be cheaper than what we already have?''

Dave Birch is going to give a talk on it in Amsterdam next week (hypercube is half way down)
https://twitter.com/dgwbirch
''Your excellent piece reminded me of my blockchain cube for Amsterdam next week @gendal ''

The pieces referred to by Dave Birch are these, I think,
http://gendal.me/2014/07/05/why-the-payment-card-system-works-the-way-it-does-and-why-bitcoin-isnt-going-to-replace-it-any-time-soon/
and
http://gendal.me/2015/06/08/towards-a-unified-model-for-replicated-shared-ledgers/

They are thinking the same as you have been saying months, I believe  

[toknormal]

eferred to by Dave Birch are these, I think,
http://gendal.me/2014/07/05/why-the-payment-card-system-works-the-way-it-does-and-why-bitcoin-isnt-going-to-replace-it-any-time-soon/
and
http://gendal.me/2015/06/08/towards-a-unified-model-for-replicated-shared-ledgers/

They are thinking the same as you have been saying months, I believe  

I think he's right. Payment channels are already starting to do for bitcoin what payment processors (Visa etc) do for banks. All the heavy lifting will be done off blockchain using dedicated systems that can fully support the retail sector, then there will be bulk clearing through the blockchain at discrete settlement points.

I've always seen Bitcoin as a replacement for Fiat money - not a replacement for payment systems.

There are also implications for privacy. People may end up having accounts with payment channel counterparties where they buy stuff all month long but where the payment channel buffers there transactions from the blockchain and them settles them as a batch. So since there's no direct interaction with the blockchain by the card holder, there's no impact on privacy. Obviously we've then come full circle back to a kind of centralised system of banks again, but those services are always going to be there since the convenience always far outweighs the risk of privacy breaches (at least for day to day amounts).

I've got some sympathy for the Bitcoin "no blocksizers" (those arguing for no change) because they want to push all this development off blockchain where it really belongs and put pressure on that sector to grow.

The priority for cryptocurrency developers (IMO) should therefore be to focus on maximising the monetary properties of their tech as a priority, and not stumble unconsciously into developing a payments system since that is a separate 'layer' of the commercial cycle which is already well served, regardless of what the underlying currency is - crypto or fiat.

Visa is just an accounting system that shuffles numbers around the globe. Those numbers can just as easily represent crypto as fiat.