[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[ddink7]

Do we have a speculation thread? (why not?)

The  action today has been on Mintpal with XC bag holders running for the exits, massive sell offs, exceeding even the volume of DRK today 

It was pretty impressive that there was no one trolling in their thread as it unfolded.

When an Alt reaches DRK type of valuation, it is going to be pretty hard to get folks to buy in. It is already considered too expensive and "boat missed".

If that were the case, nobody would be buying $650 bitcoins right now.

[1714853342]

1714853342

[slapper]

Do we have a speculation thread? (why not?)

One better. A whole entire forum. https://darkcointalk.org/

Speculation thread: https://darkcointalk.org/forums/speculation.34/

Yup perfect. I am guessing, in a couple of weeks, we might have to just get a dedicated thread in Alt subforum for speculation for those who can't register there in darkcointalk.

Why wouldn't some people be able to register there?

Not everyone wants to register in all the different alts they trade/invest in. Just an additional hassle That said, those who are in the Dark from the beginning are obviously registering and participating there.

[Propulsion]

Do we have a speculation thread? (why not?)

One better. A whole entire forum. https://darkcointalk.org/

Speculation thread: https://darkcointalk.org/forums/speculation.34/

Yup perfect. I am guessing, in a couple of weeks, we might have to just get a dedicated thread in Alt subforum for speculation for those who can't register there in darkcointalk.

Why wouldn't some people be able to register there?

Not everyone wants to register in all the different alts they trade/invest in. Just an additional hassle That said, those who are in the Dark from the beginning are obviously registering and participating there.

Gotcha fully understand. I thought you were referring to a technical problem and not being able to register.

[slapper]

Do we have a speculation thread? (why not?)

The  action today has been on Mintpal with XC bag holders running for the exits, massive sell offs, exceeding even the volume of DRK today 

It was pretty impressive that there was no one trolling in their thread as it unfolded.

When an Alt reaches DRK type of valuation, it is going to be pretty hard to get folks to buy in. It is already considered too expensive and "boat missed".

If that were the case, nobody would be buying $650 bitcoins right now.

And that is why alt currencies came about. There is a reason why alts have found it hard to command high valuation. It has to have a long trend of proven record. It is one thing to get to 0.1, 0.2 or whatever, but completely different to maintain it.

Do you know how many FUDsters will show up here after RC3? People will be crying to lock this thread because the hatred level is poised to go north soon.

[jenveno]

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inverseheadandshoulders.asp

In reality the 12h graph on bitcoin wisdom is a positive inverse head and shoulders not some bubble nonsense people talk of

We are likely to see more pump action sooner than you think, earlier today we had spikes to 0.01935

We need to see some knees and toes or this chart means nothing.

[thelonecrouton]

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inverseheadandshoulders.asp

In reality the 12h graph on bitcoin wisdom is a positive inverse head and shoulders not some bubble nonsense people talk of

We are likely to see more pump action sooner than you think, earlier today we had spikes to 0.01935

We need to see some knees and toes or this chart means nothing.

I only trade when I see boobies. I look out for the D-cup and bra strap formation, it's a sure sign of an impending upswing.

[slapper]

I prefer the camel toe myself  

[luigi1111]

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inverseheadandshoulders.asp

In reality the 12h graph on bitcoin wisdom is a positive inverse head and shoulders not some bubble nonsense people talk of

We are likely to see more pump action sooner than you think, earlier today we had spikes to 0.01935

We need to see some knees and toes or this chart means nothing.

I only trade when I see boobies. I look out for the D-cup and bra strap formation, it's a sure sign of an impending upswing.

Ah, yes, the voice of logic and reason. Did you know that those "patterns" mean there's a 100% chance the price goes somewhere? Why, the evidence is irrefutable, proven, infallible, etc.

...

...

However, no one knows which direction or how far the price will move.

[illodin]

I guess some traditional trading people are more about the charts and analytics and less about the technology, community and fundamentals of the coin.

Yea, they don't have the competency to evaluate fundamentals. But then again, not many people do, so it doesn't really matter when trading short-term.

The feature that is supposed to drive the price up isn't working at the moment and won't be working for at least a week or more. Instead of people making money running MN's they are losing money. Fundamentally, that sucks.

I'm not saying what will happen or what won't, or commenting on charts or analysis or w/e, so I'm not "shilling" one way or the other. Just general observations.
This is the level of understanding the traders have when it comes to crypto fundamentals (and nothing personally against mikemikemike, this was just a good example):

1) XC has the best Dev in the Alt-Currency community fullstop. Check out his LinkedIn profile, this isn't up for debate.
2) XC has the best plan for anonymous technology, and probably the only Dev who could pull it off
3) XC is getting updated pretty much every other day, its moving at a faster pace than nearly any other coin
4) XC isn't just a currency, they are building an entire fucking platform.
5) XC still hasn't been noticed yet by the media
6) XC is hugely undervalued.

Points 5 or 6 I don't know, so I won't comment on them. But 1-4, how could traders evaluate any of that?

I don't understand any of the chart analysis stuff, to me they just look like self-fulfilling prophecies, so I don't claim to. Nor do I make public predictions by them. If I would, I'd be just trolling.

[cryptodaknight]

I cannot see any reason why darkcoin could be on part with btc prices and pass up LTC cause it is just a script clone of btc. Btc will be gold where dark could be platinum.

[toknormal]

In reality the 12h graph on bitcoin wisdom is a positive inverse head and shoulders not some bubble nonsense people talk of

I think I just have to say in mikey's defence, I can't see that "inverse head and shoulders" anywhere on the recent DRK chart. Also, he has offered quite relevant advice which, if it had been taken more constructively might have lead to a more useful discussion for all concerned.

He wasn't trying to "diss" the coin, he was offering a perspective on optimising investment strategy in the wake of this huge rise.

I don't necessarily agree with him on the bottom, but all the same he's right about technicals trumping fundamentals in extreme cases such as the rise we've just had. Bitcoin had all kinds of positive and negative news (Overstock adoption, China banks) and yet it stuck rigidly to the long term pattern and didn't budge until the new valuation had been properly "baked in".

Maybe a picture tells a thousand words:

P.S. You can see from the lower of these two that unlike Bitcoin, DRK built itself a bit of a base around 12-14 just prior to that last rise. That's why I don't think it's going to go quite as low as mikey does. But this is splitting hairs. The general principle is that all contributions to a better understanding of where we are are best accepted if offered in good faith. It may be that mikey's in fact was.

[sharkbyte093]

It's true Bitcoin has by far the largest and most powerful network. But it's also true a coin like DRK is far more mobile when it comes to being able to change and breaking new ground.

Bitcoin is a slow-moving slow-turning oil tanker, Darkcoin is a speedboat; nimble and agile.

Couple that with the fact that a lot of Bitcoin advocates and investors don't want total anonymity because it would raise the ire of regulators, who they are trying to woo.

[roede94105]

In reality the 12h graph on bitcoin wisdom is a positive inverse head and shoulders not some bubble nonsense people talk of

I think I just have to say in mikey's defence, I can't see that "inverse head and shoulders" anywhere on the recent DRK chart. Also, he has offered quite relevant advice which, if it had been taken more constructively might have lead to a more useful discussion for all concerned.

He wasn't trying to "diss" the coin, he was offering a perspective on optimising investment strategy in the wake of this huge rise.

I don't necessarily agree with him on the bottom, but all the same he's right about technicals trumping fundamentals in extreme cases such as the rise we've just had. Bitcoin had all kinds of positive and negative news (Overstock adoption, China banks) and yet it stuck rigidly to the long term pattern and didn't budge until the new valuation had been properly "baked in".

Maybe a picture tells a thousand words:

P.S. You can see from the lower of these two that unlike Bitcoin, DRK built itself a bit of a base around 12-14 just prior to that last rise. That's why I don't think it's going to go quite as low as mikey does. But this is splitting hairs. The general principle is that all contributions to a better understanding of where we are are best accepted if offered in good faith. It may be that mikey's in fact was.

I think this graph idea can come true but if master node payments work it will most certainly cut the downtrend

[AlexGR]

I don't necessarily agree with him on the bottom, but all the same he's right about technicals trumping fundamentals in extreme cases such as the rise we've just had.

Not really. Fundamentals trump technicals:

Technicals are good, but I'll take fundamentals any day of the week:

Back in March (price 0.0012) I wrote:

As for large investment interest mentioned earlier, that's natural: The "transparent" market cap of bitcoin and alts is 10 billion USD. The anonymous market is peanuts: 4mn USD (1mn anoncoin + 3mn darkcoin). When the anonymous market delivers, if even 1% of the transparent money move to privacy-centric coins, we are talking about 100mn marketcap to be shared between anonymous coins. You can't go wrong there, although from an investment perspective I doubt they are talking exclusively about DRK. It would probably be a portfolio of coins with unique anonymity characteristics. That would also serve as a hedge to a potential loss in the bitcoin and alt market which would seem as problematic for being transparent. This type of money involved as investment and hedging is more important for coin price than market adoption in commercial trades done with DarkSend, simply due to the enormous volume of USD that are involved. Adoption in transactions will be slow. Today you can't even buy things with Bitcoins (except 0.01% of the cases), so the issue of adoption of altcoins is in itself somewhat of an oxymoron. But there will be a day when this will change.

In early April I wrote again (same price 0.0012)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=549572.msg6020352#msg6020352

As for Hirocoin vs DRK, Hirocoin is competing in the transparent market vs other altcoins.

The transparent market is a monopoly right now of 10bn market cap value where Bitcoin is the undisputed leader. Darkcoin is creating a new market and providing a new choice: Do you want your transactions and your money to be tracked, or do you want privacy?

So, just as you have one shop and everyone goes there (100% market) and then another one opens and the marketshare is shifted towards the new choice, it's the same situation with Darkcoin.

By presenting a new choice, people will now be able to choose on whether they want public or private cryptocurrencies. If even 1% of the transparent market opts for privacy, we are talking about 100 mn market cap. If 10% goes for the private market, we are talking about a billion USD.

I don't know how Hirocoin, or any other plain altcoin can have a better "this is the coin to watch" prospect than DRK. The fundamentals are very strong.

So we went from a 4mn anonymous market to ~70-100mn (depending if one counts the Bytecoin marketcap), getting the 1% milestone.

Next stop is the 10% milestone for anonymous coins. It could take a while though. This is not a ride for people with Attention Deficit Disorder who want to see the price move up every day and panic if it doesn't, or people who are into pumps and dumps between coins.

Now show me ONE technical analysis which predicted anonymous marketcaps of 70-100mn USD. Oh, there is none because they ignore the fundamentals.

The last point I made still stands and went unanswered. Is there anyone who predicted DRK's rise on technicals?

[toknormal]

I think this graph idea can come true but if master node payments work it will most certainly cut the downtrend

Yes indeed. Even mikey acknowledged that the continuation of "news" would encourage the price (or at least he acknowledged the opposite - that the lack of such would adversely affect it).

So I wouldn't be surprised if it held above 15 for the next couple of weeks and even rallied.

It's what happens *after* that that mikey was concerned about. When all the current development settles down, master nodes are in RC3's out, everyone's made their money on the pump. Thats when the 'big news' starts to fade and that's what the longer term charts are starting to show - that much (if not most) of the flurry of news and potential news is now priced in.(<appeal>don't rase me bro', just makin' an observation</appeal>)

None of this means that there isn't a very bright future for "DRK"  There probably is - we've got to separate out market stuff from development stuff (which is why I agree with the appeals for a separate "speculation" thread).

[T.Stuart]

Maybe a picture tells a thousand words:

I'm amazed at all this simplistic picture comparing going on.

One of these graphs shows USD price; one shows price in Bitcoin: a powerful reason (among others) that comparing these graphs is a mistake.

[roede94105]

I think this graph idea can come true but if master node payments work it will most certainly cut the downtrend

Yes indeed. Even mikey acknowledged that the continuation of "news" would encourage the price (or at least he acknowledged the opposite - that the lack of such would adversely affect it).

So I wouldn't be surprised if it held above 15 for the next couple of weeks and even rallied.

It's what happens *after* that that mikey was concerned about. When all the current development settles down, master nodes are in RC3's out, everyone's made their money on the pump. Thats when the 'big news' starts to fade and that's what the longer term charts are starting to show - that much (if not most) of the flurry of news and potential news is now priced in.(<appeal>don't rase me bro', just makin' an observation</appeal>)

None of this means that there isn't a very bright future for "DRK"  There probably is - we've got to separate out market stuff from development stuff (which is why I agree with the appeals for a separate "speculation" thread).

Got it, totally agree

After RC3 is when we'll start to need "real" uses for DRK, for instance with silk road 2.0 adding dark and promoting its use.

I think our focus will have to be there - both for speculation and fundamentals

[anonymousxx1503]

Come on number #1 darkcoin wallet jesus, are you really going to let this drop much further? Or do you need margin trading and leverage on bitfinex to pump Darkcoin up to 0.1?

[anonymousxx1503]

I think this graph idea can come true but if master node payments work it will most certainly cut the downtrend

Yes indeed. Even mikey acknowledged that the continuation of "news" would encourage the price (or at least he acknowledged the opposite - that the lack of such would adversely affect it).

So I wouldn't be surprised if it held above 15 for the next couple of weeks and even rallied.

It's what happens *after* that that mikey was concerned about. When all the current development settles down, master nodes are in RC3's out, everyone's made their money on the pump. Thats when the 'big news' starts to fade and that's what the longer term charts are starting to show - that much (if not most) of the flurry of news and potential news is now priced in.(<appeal>don't rase me bro', just makin' an observation</appeal>)

None of this means that there isn't a very bright future for "DRK"  There probably is - we've got to separate out market stuff from development stuff (which is why I agree with the appeals for a separate "speculation" thread).

Got it, totally agree

After RC3 is when we'll start to need "real" uses for DRK, for instance with a silk road 2.0 adding dark and promoting its use

All these deepweb markets won't add Darkcoin until it's open sourced, that much is for sure.

[toknormal]

The last point I made still stands and went unanswered. Is there anyone who predicted DRK's rise on technicals?

You're right. Fundamentals ultimately decide the valuation of an asset - not technicals.

But once a move is initiated, technicals allow you to identify the cycles within the movement that are propelling the valuation short term.

These cycles are unambiguous because they are calculated from moving averages, so you can decide if you want to trade over a 2 day period, a 1 week period, a 15 minute period or whatever.

The thing is, you need both: fundamentals to come to your long term conclusion about whether the asset is a "short" or a "long" (i.e. whether you like it or hate it  ) and then technicals to tell you when to place the trade to optimise your gain. If you read back over mikey's posts, he's done just that:

[1] - he decided he "liked" the asset based on fundamentals and went long

[2] - he then reverted to technicals to let him know when to place the trade and take profits

...and now he's letting the rest of us know as well. Doesn't mean you have to sell - not everyone's a chart reader and it is wholly legitimate to just buy something and hold long term. But just remember one thing:

Outside of the crypto world, when you put money in a pension scheme or a building society account or a gold fund or an oil fund, you have an army of highly experienced, highly motivated professional traders doing the dealing on your behalf and sweating buckets about losing their bonuses.

In crypto, it's every man for himself and those that ignore even the most basic level of technical analysis will get eaten alive for breakfast by those that don't. A good recent example was the Cinni coin pump a few weeks back. It was clear to all and sundry who were watching charts that that coin was headed for 10% of its high right after that pump, and yet if you look back at the thread there were loads of people still hanging onto to and "believing" in it weeks afterwards. The rest is history.

As I say, I don't want to detract from the real business of this thread which is the coin development and can understand the frustrations of those that get sick of all this price speculation, but I feel it's important to try to bring some perspective to the debate that professional "shark" traders usually keep held close to their chests.

mikey was trying to do that and got mud thrown at him when in fact people should have been biting his hand of for everything he knows. Doesn't mean you have to agree with him - he's not a soothsayer, but he did have some valid perspectives to bring to bear on the discussion.