[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[7vpo]

I wonder Masternode setup possible on the Windows operating system ?

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[camosoul]

What you mean "2 tiers of DRK citizens" ? I really did not understand this post, but would like to follow your train of thought

I think I already explained.

Ones that receive "interest" and ones that don't.

The thread's now dominated by masternode holders discussing their masternodes, but they are in the minority amongst holders. Most holders are not masternode'ers. They do not receive interest payments and are not participants in this whole process, yet they're the ones who determine the valuation. I see that as a problem.

It could have a potentially divisive effect on the  stakeholder base by creating an "us and them" atmosphere, particular when all everyone does is bang on about how much their getting from their masternode and nothing about what service masternodes provide to other holders. This needs to be addressed IMO otherwise people will ask "why am I holding this declining value coin just so they can cream off my transaction fees ?".

i.e. non-masternode holders need to see a tangible benefit from the existence of the MN network, otherwise they'll just see it as overhead and dump.

I think you're manufacturing a problem.

People adopting DRK should do enough research to know what masternodes are and what they do and why they should like them. Those who pay so little attention to what they are doing that they don't do this research fall into the category of "I want free money hose, it's not fair that people who work get stuff and my lazy ass doesn't!" These people do not matter and need not be catered to.

If you can barely computer then masternodes shouldn't be trusted to you anyhow. It's working exactly as it should. I think Evan would like it to be more inclusive.

This is the tier level point of separation. No previous coin has had two inclusive metrics of block validation. This is why RC3 has had launch failures. MN Pay Votes and Mining were not playing well together, but had to be boolean exclusive AND to prevent wild forkage. There was no way to enforce that exclusive AND. As we can see, there are people who can be trusted to follow that directive, and those who cannot... Two tiers.

The stupid cannot be trusted because they don't have the sense to know they are causing a problem. Watch Steve Martin's "The Jerk" to learn more.

No one is entitled to run a masternode, and with good reason. Evan is working on stupid-proofing MN Payment Votes in sync with the already-known mining verification stupid-proofing. Once both are stupid-proofed and merged, we won't have problems anymore.

[darkota]

What you mean "2 tiers of DRK citizens" ? I really did not understand this post, but would like to follow your train of thought

I think I already explained.

Ones that receive "interest" and ones that don't.

The thread's now dominated by masternode holders discussing their masternodes, but they are in the minority amongst holders. Most holders are not masternode'ers. They do not receive interest payments and are not participants in this whole process, yet they're the ones who determine the valuation. I see that as a problem.

It could have a potentially divisive effect on the  stakeholder base by creating an "us and them" atmosphere, particular when all everyone does is bang on about how much their getting from their masternode and nothing about what service masternodes provide to other holders. This needs to be addressed IMO otherwise people will ask "why am I holding this declining value coin just so they can cream off my transaction fees ?".

i.e. non-masternode holders need to see a tangible benefit from the existence of the MN network, otherwise they'll just see it as overhead and dump.

I think you're manufacturing a problem.

People adopting DRK should do enough research to know what masternodes are and what they do and why they should like them. Those who pay so little attention to what they are doing that they don't do this research fall into the category of "I want free money hose, it's not fair that people who work get stuff and my lazy ass doesn't!" These people do not matter and need not be catered to.

If you can barely computer then masternodes shouldn't be trusted to you anyhow. It's working exactly as it should. I think Evan would like it to be more inclusive.

This is the tier level point of separation. No previous coin has had two inclusive metrics of block validation. This is why RC3 has had launch failures. MN Pay Votes and Mining were not playing well together, but had to be boolean exclusive AND to prevent wild forkage. There was no way to enforce that exclusive AND. As we can see, there are people who can be trusted to follow that directive, and those who cannot... Two tiers.

The stupid cannot be trusted because they don't have the sense to know they are causing a problem. Watch Steve Martin's "The Jerk" to learn more.

No one is entitled to run a masternode, and with good reason. Evan is working on stupid-proofing MN Payment Votes in sync with the already-known mining verification stupid-proofing. Once both are stupid-proofed and merged, we won't have problems anymore.

The stupid cannot be trusted because they don't have the sense to know they are causing a problem. Watch Steve Martin's "The Jerk" to learn more.

Once both are stupid-proofed and merged, we won't have problems anymore.

LMFAO!

[toknormal]

No one is entitled to run a masternode, and with good reason. Evan is working on stupid-proofing MN Payment Votes in sync with the already-known mining verification stupid-proofing. Once both are stupid-proofed and merged, we won't have problems anymore.

Very interesting post. At least we're discussing it now which is a relief to me.

I think it partly revolves around how critical the strategy of masternodes is in the first place and how much value it adds to the network as opposed to a technical anonymising strategy that doesn't involve masternodes. There's probably been a lot of constructive thinking done about this which hasn't reached the public domain. Maybe it's time it did.

[camosoul]

What you mean "2 tiers of DRK citizens" ? I really did not understand this post, but would like to follow your train of thought

I think I already explained.

Ones that receive "interest" and ones that don't.

The thread's now dominated by masternode holders discussing their masternodes, but they are in the minority amongst holders. Most holders are not masternode'ers. They do not receive interest payments and are not participants in this whole process, yet they're the ones who determine the valuation. I see that as a problem.

It could have a potentially divisive effect on the  stakeholder base by creating an "us and them" atmosphere, particular when all everyone does is bang on about how much their getting from their masternode and nothing about what service masternodes provide to other holders. This needs to be addressed IMO otherwise people will ask "why am I holding this declining value coin just so they can cream off my transaction fees ?".

i.e. non-masternode holders need to see a tangible benefit from the existence of the MN network, otherwise they'll just see it as overhead and dump.

I think you're manufacturing a problem.

People adopting DRK should do enough research to know what masternodes are and what they do and why they should like them. Those who pay so little attention to what they are doing that they don't do this research fall into the category of "I want free money hose, it's not fair that people who work get stuff and my lazy ass doesn't!" These people do not matter and need not be catered to.

If you can barely computer then masternodes shouldn't be trusted to you anyhow. It's working exactly as it should. I think Evan would like it to be more inclusive.

This is the tier level point of separation. No previous coin has had two inclusive metrics of block validation. This is why RC3 has had launch failures. MN Pay Votes and Mining were not playing well together, but had to be boolean exclusive AND to prevent wild forkage. There was no way to enforce that exclusive AND. As we can see, there are people who can be trusted to follow that directive, and those who cannot... Two tiers.

The stupid cannot be trusted because they don't have the sense to know they are causing a problem. Watch Steve Martin's "The Jerk" to learn more.

No one is entitled to run a masternode, and with good reason. Evan is working on stupid-proofing MN Payment Votes in sync with the already-known mining verification stupid-proofing. Once both are stupid-proofed and merged, we won't have problems anymore.

The stupid cannot be trusted because they don't have the sense to know they are causing a problem. Watch Steve Martin's "The Jerk" to learn more.

Once both are stupid-proofed and merged, we won't have problems anymore.

LMFAO!

Explain why this is funny?

DRK MN code is in a state that requires it's operators to "do it right" in order to work. It's exactly like a PoW coin that doesn't perform any block verification. Anyone can publish any block they want. DRK is a PoW and PoS(ervice via manual PoS(take)) coin merged together. The PoS(ervice) part doesn't have the checks and balances needed to prevent wild forking. It's never been done before. Too many variables existed to successfully test the verification system in a sterile environment... In order to add a verification system to this new idea, one must first discover how it might be undermined. The Spork method is the perfect tool for the job. If there were no stupid people, or bad people, there wouldn't be a need to check for bugs in any of this...

[minersday]

Roede94105 here,

Yidakee on IRC #Darkcoin (aka GhostPlayer in this forum) helped me setup my master node today, took about 4 hours, everything went ABSOLUTELY smoothly, he took the time to explain everything and I am now a MN owner thanks to him!

If you have no knowledge like me, but want to setup a MN in a safe way and while protecting the network, contact him!

Yer a wizard, Yida  

My pleasure!!  

for reference, roede did sign up for a Full Masternode Setup, so I did do all the server side setup. And never ever touched the funds.
Total trustless setup!

It takes 4 hours to setup a MN by an expert?

It takes 4 hours to take my hand and make me download ubuntu and learn to use the terminal and setup my own amazon EC2 server and check that I didn't do any mistake etc.

You got trolled on. He has been doing this ever since his discovery of ....

You know why Xnode will be way more decentralized at the end in comparison to DRK?

It takes an expert 4 hours to set up a DRK masternode.  4 hours!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg7564470#msg7564470

DRK "trustless" weak point isn't even necessarily in their blockchain, but rather...  Do you really trust the person setting up the masternode for you?

Oh.. XC troll..

Yep, it took me manually 1 hour totally, to setup 15 nodes on testnet... and Im working on OVA/OVF appliance to do darkcoin cold/hot automated setup, so it just take minutes.. =D

[minerjav]

.....The stupid cannot be trusted because they don't have the sense to know they are causing a problem. Watch Steve Martin's "The Jerk" to learn more.

No one is entitled to run a masternode, and with good reason. Evan is working on stupid-proofing MN Payment Votes in sync with the already-known mining verification stupid-proofing. Once both are stupid-proofed and merged, we won't have problems anymore.

Your post style sometimes is a little rude, sometimes I like, sometimes not too much.

The last one is part of the "I like your style".

+1

[camosoul]

No one is entitled to run a masternode, and with good reason. Evan is working on stupid-proofing MN Payment Votes in sync with the already-known mining verification stupid-proofing. Once both are stupid-proofed and merged, we won't have problems anymore.

Very interesting post. At least we're discussing it now which is a relief to me.

I think it partly revolves around how critical the strategy of masternodes is in the first place and how much value it adds to the network as opposed to a technical anonymising strategy that doesn't involve masternodes. There's probably been a lot of constructive thinking done about this which hasn't reached the public domain. Maybe it's time it did.

Examine the product closely and the intent becomes clear; MNs have more potential uses than are currently visible. Right now they are the anonymizers. In the future, they will hold the giant-ass blockchain that nobody else wants to host... BTC has experienced a nearly 30% loss of nodes holding blockchain due to light-clients, which are trust-based. Those who trade that convenience by throwing away the trustless nature of having one's own blockchain, blah blah blah... There is a valid reason tho; the blockchain won't fit on my android. I either use a pseudo-trustless cloud wallet like blockchain.info, or I give up altogether... DRK's MNs could be a trustless blockchain repository in a future where the blockchain doesn't fit on our typical machines, or is too much of a pain in the ass to download for similar reasons. How long does it take to sync the BTC blockchain? What if you pay for pipe? Or you're on dial-up? Or...? DRK's MNs solve this unforseeable problem in Satoshi's experiment.

I think this discussion has never happened before because there is no reason for it. The only people who will bring it up are entitled brats who want something for nothing.

"Wha, ASICS stole my GPU money hose." Same old argument... Lazy people want free money hose. Lazy people aren't getting a free money hose. They complain about it, or worse, become trolls about it...

The answers are clear to those that matter. So why talk about it? I may as well bring up a discussion about how important I think Oxygen is to mammals... It's a closed matter any anyone who isn't lazy can and will figure it out on their own pretty easily. Fact Welfare, etc...

Not mocking you, tok, just my usual direct demeanor with no sugar coating... ;-)

[Minotaur26]

What you mean "2 tiers of DRK citizens" ? I really did not understand this post, but would like to follow your train of thought

I think I already explained.

Ones that receive "interest" and ones that don't.

The thread's now dominated by masternode holders discussing their masternodes, but they are in the minority amongst holders. Most holders are not masternode'ers. They do not receive interest payments and are not participants in this whole process, yet they're the ones who determine the valuation. I see that as a problem.

It could have a potentially divisive effect on the  stakeholder base by creating an "us and them" atmosphere, particular when all everyone does is bang on about how much their getting from their masternode and nothing about what service masternodes provide to other holders. This needs to be addressed IMO otherwise people will ask "why am I holding this declining value coin just so they can cream off my transaction fees ?".

i.e. non-masternode holders need to see a tangible benefit from the existence of the MN network, otherwise they'll just see it as overhead and dump.

People should see a tangible benefit? What about anonymity?  The feature that gives its intrinsic value to the coin! Without it the coin anybody holds would be worthless everybody should be thanking masternode ops. Darkcoin has proof of service it is people that provide the service that get compensated, setting up a master node is only 10K a very small investment,  if you are student and cant afford to invest 10K then hold your coins and wait for future appreciation as it gets adopted.  It is a fair system the rules are the same for everybody.

[T.Stuart]

People should see a tangible benefit? What about anonymity?  The feature that gives its intrinsic value to the coin! Without it the coin anybody holds would be worthless everybody should be thanking masternode ops. Darkcoin has proof of service it is people that provide the service that get compensated, setting up a master node is only 10K a very small investment,  if you are student and cant afford to invest 10K then hold your coins and wait for future appreciation as it gets adopted.  It is a fair system the rules are the same for everybody.

I don't think he's trying to offend regarding the benefits of drk. It's just that, like it or not, for the adoption you are talking about to happen on a really wide scale the ignoramuses of this world are going to have to be taken into consideration! 

[thefrog]

I feel like screaming like a little giiiirl !!!....Got another MN payout  

I just got another one as well.

But aren't we in danger of creating 2 tiers of DRK "citizens" ?

An "elite" Masternode class who get interest payments, and the rest who get nothing.

This thread is rapidly becoming the domain of the former. They'd better hope their 'lesser' compatriots don't dump for another one that gives them 'staking interest' whatever the size of their holding.

Just saying - we might as well acknowledge and discuss this before the fudsters start ramming it down our throats.

What you mean "2 tiers of DRK citizens" ? I really did not understand this post, but would like to follow your train of thought

He's trying to make a good thing look like a bad thing with socialist class warfare argument.

There are already two tiers: people qualified to run a masternode and lazy whiners who complain that it "isn't fair."

The lazy whiners want money-hose-for-nothing and say it isn't "fair" that people who actually work for what they have get to have what they have. Next they'll vote to tax DRK and give free DRK to the lazy ones...

Reminds me of Bioshock, "If I make a cake, is it not mine to keep ? NO, says Peter the parasite..."

[toknormal]

Examine the product closely and the intent becomes clear; MNs have more potential uses than are currently visible. Right now they are the anonymizers. In the future, they will hold the giant-ass blockchain that nobody else wants to host... BTC has experienced a nearly 30% loss of nodes holding blockchain due to light-clients, which are trust-based. Those who trade that convenience by throwing away the trustless nature of having one's own blockchain, blah blah blah... There is a valid reason tho; the blockchain won't fit on my android. I either use a pseudo-trustless cloud wallet like blockchain.info, or I give up altogether... DRK's MNs could be a trustless blockchain repository in a future where the blockchain doesn't fit on our typical machines, or is too much of a pain in the ass to download for similar reasons. How long does it take to sync the BTC blockchain? What if you pay for pipe? Or you're on dial-up? Or...? DRK's MNs solve this unforseeable problem in Satoshi's experiment.

This is the type of stuff we need to hear !

At last I've managed to prise it out of the DRK community - starting to get down to it.

[Brilliantrocket]

Remember that too many masternodes is a bad thing. There's a sweet spot and 1000 DRK per node will get us there.

[camosoul]

People should see a tangible benefit? What about anonymity?  The feature that gives its intrinsic value to the coin! Without it the coin anybody holds would be worthless everybody should be thanking masternode ops. Darkcoin has proof of service it is people that provide the service that get compensated, setting up a master node is only 10K a very small investment,  if you are student and cant afford to invest 10K then hold your coins and wait for future appreciation as it gets adopted.  It is a fair system the rules are the same for everybody.

I don't think he's trying to offend regarding the benefits of drk. It's just that, like it or not, for the adoption you are talking about to happen on a really wide scale the ignoramuses of this world are going to have to be taken into consideration!  

They are being taken into consideration. The Spork is how we keep them from destroying the network. It becomes idiot-tolerant. I already explained this a few posts up and it makes perfect sense.

If you want to hand an idiot a tool as complex as this, it needs to be able to survive them having it. RC3's failures-to-launch are a direct result of it. The concept of merging two block issuance metrics was only half solved by the pre-existing PoW verification system. The MN Vote metric isn't idiot-proofed yet. The Spork gives us a way to monitor the idiots and thus create a resistance to them. Once that method of verification exists, there won't be wild forking anymore. No different than the PoW need to verify blocks or else anyone could publish any block they felt like... The MN Vote stack currently does allow many exploits, that's why it kept forking... It's never been done before. Watching the bad actors in the wild is the only way to see what verifications need to be done and how to prevent the bad actors. Most bad actors are not malicious "hackers" but merely stupid people. Thus, we return to the original point; if you're going to hand a tool to a stupid person, you have to make sure it can survive the things the stupid person will do to it. It's impossible for a smart person to predict everything a stupid person will do. Watching them do stupid things in the wild is often the only real tool a developer has. It's why I "people watch." I just plain do not understand the extreme mass stupidity of the human race. I have to go out and watch them destroy themselves from time to time just to see what the hell is going on... I have a brain, use it, and I jsut plain do not act the way so-called "normal" people do... So is the developer of software...

Being closed-source, for now, limits the potential for these bad actors during development. If it were already open-source, my gawd... It'd never get done.

OMGzzz the RC3 has fail, DRK is teh sucks!!! An odd dochotomy of non-reason... Without the volume of adoption DRK currently has, it would be impossible to figure out how this new block verification system would need to be crafted... These RC3 failures were not only inevitable, they were REQUIRED by entropy and fate. It's the only way a clear understanding of the problem would be seen. The problem could then be fixed. You can't create a verification system if you have no idea what you need to verify...

This isn't the end of DRK, it is the beginning. Only a "normal" person loses faith in the very moment when everything finally has a chance to go right... It's like wanting to drive your car to an island, and giving up the moment someone builds the bridge...

People selling post-spork are the dumbest people on Earth.

[camosoul]

Examine the product closely and the intent becomes clear; MNs have more potential uses than are currently visible. Right now they are the anonymizers. In the future, they will hold the giant-ass blockchain that nobody else wants to host... BTC has experienced a nearly 30% loss of nodes holding blockchain due to light-clients, which are trust-based. Those who trade that convenience by throwing away the trustless nature of having one's own blockchain, blah blah blah... There is a valid reason tho; the blockchain won't fit on my android. I either use a pseudo-trustless cloud wallet like blockchain.info, or I give up altogether... DRK's MNs could be a trustless blockchain repository in a future where the blockchain doesn't fit on our typical machines, or is too much of a pain in the ass to download for similar reasons. How long does it take to sync the BTC blockchain? What if you pay for pipe? Or you're on dial-up? Or...? DRK's MNs solve this unforseeable problem in Satoshi's experiment.

This is the type of stuff we need to hear !

At last I've managed to prise it out of the DRK community - starting to get down to it.

This same discussion has already been had several times several thousands pages ago...

[GhostPlayer]

Remember that too many masternodes is a bad thing. There's a sweet spot and 1000 DRK per node will get us there.

How on earth so ??

[coins101]

EDIT (6/28/2014)
New clients have been released and more changes have been made. Current versions are v9.11.5 and v10.11.5. It is important that all solo-miners and pool operators update to the correct clients! Miners make the network work, and as such you need to use the right client versions, stay up to date and keep our blockchain healthy and stable!

You can find the new client software on the official downloads page of www.Darkcoin.io.

https://www.darkcoin.io/getstarted.html

*** PLEASE UPDATE TO 9.11.5 OR 10.11.5 ***

Windows Users:
v9.11.5
v10.11.5

Linux Users:
Ubuntu v10.11.5 GUI Wallet/Client
Ubuntu v10.11.5 Darkcoind Daemon

Mac Users:
v9.11.5 Wallet/Client

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/please-update-your-darkcoin-clients.1602/

new page bump

ccmf

[roede94105]

It takes 4 hours to setup a MN by an expert?

 First, if you check my sig, one of the first things I say is I am not an expert.

 Second, I take care of the "dirty" side of it, the VPS setup - quick and efficiently

 Third, I 'm on IRC (or whatever) making sure the Masternode owner, who has no linux skills at all, understand every single step of the way of the local setup and configs (so I dont Teamviewer or something), which I think is crucial to protect the investment, setting up local.cold / remote setup.

And I do it in a manner that makes double sure neither side is able to scam the other. This includes setting up EC2 account from scratch, and local setup.

 And it costs 1% of the total investment.

 Does this offend you?

+1 I learned a lot

[dotnetmin]

After updating my masternode and qt to new version i did not receive a payment. Its around 36h now.
I did not generate a new key. Do i have to create a new key ?
As it is listed on the masternodelist with flag 1 i did not see a reason why to create a new one.
Dont get me wrong, i am not whining, only try to help get things together

[dotnetmin]

It takes 4 hours to setup a MN by an expert?

 First, if you check my sig, one of the first things I say is I am not an expert.

 Second, I take care of the "dirty" side of it, the VPS setup - quick and efficiently

 Third, I 'm on IRC (or whatever) making sure the Masternode owner, who has no linux skills at all, understand every single step of the way of the local setup and configs (so I dont Teamviewer or something), which I think is crucial to protect the investment, setting up local.cold / remote setup.

And I do it in a manner that makes double sure neither side is able to scam the other. This includes setting up EC2 account from scratch, and local setup.

 And it costs 1% of the total investment.

 Does this offend you?

+1 I learned a lot

Only to the thing with the 4 hours bashing. I am absolutly noob with linux and servers, but with the very good guides from community on darkcointalk and here i got it running. Educate yourself.
Its possible to work it out - for all of us