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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9722518 times)
darianc
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June 30, 2014, 04:51:50 AM
 #40361

It's stupid to expect level results.

Fairness in payments will make masternodes more attractive to those running them and those looking to run them.

Potential investors will expect calculable (deterministic) returns.

I understand the gaussian distribution. My concern is it's period and the effect that has on those that do or may contribute to the strength of the network.
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camosoul
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June 30, 2014, 04:52:50 AM
 #40362

The MNs I'm looking after has payment variance of 2 to 8 Drks. All have been paid. I think generating a new MN privkey is sufficient. Changing the IP seemed to have no extra effect for me. Hope that helps someone.
Sadly, no.

We're going on 96 hours now with no payments on my MN. I understand variance, but I'm beginning to lose faith here. Even under the most optimistic projections (500 nodes and only 50% paid blocks) we're looking at (1 - ((499/500)^(298*4))) = 91.96% chance of my node having been paid.
NO! PAY ATTENTION!

It is entirely possible, even probable and likely, that the block that would have paid you was issued by a pool that is not performing payments. The block that had your name on it might have paid you if it came from a legitimate pool.

The point being, the block that paid you was probably found, and you would have gotten paid; but there are still enough bad actors on the network that even thought the probability says you'd get paid, that block was issued by an entity that is refusing to comply and keeping the coin for itself instead of paying you like it should have.

Due to the density of bad actors still on the network, it could be as long as 2 weeks before you get paid becasue if you're exceptionally unlucky, plus that block pops out of a non-paying pool, even when you do get voted lucky, you're still not getting paid because the pool kept it for itself instead of paying you.

How many times do I have to explain this shit! It's not that fucking hard to understand...

You probably have been voted a payment. But a shitpool stole it instead of giving it to you. Spork. Enforcement OFF. Why is nobody reading this stuff? I'm not even running an MN yet and I have done my homework.. Hell, it's not even homework, just open eyes, face forward... There's some crotchety old woman set to be cloned without her knowledge who's got it all figured out...

0.9 and 0.10 might also be picking and choosing differently... That's the whole fucking point of testing this code on livenet... Testnet is too sterile to see the problems. With Spork Tehcnology, we can see the problems without borking the coin on failforks... Has this not been repeatedly explained for pages and pages on multiple forums?
Camo, I like you bud, but you can be a little high strung lol!

I don't recall seeing it explained that clearly and it makes sense that way. I'm still very intrigued by the guy that's received 14 payments...in fact I'm a little more concerned about that than I am about me. The odds have got to be phenominal, ESPECIALLY with all the bad actors.
I'm a little wound up because these facts have been clear since the moment RC3 was released... It was not explained in the same way that no one ever explained how to breathe... The facts were provided and obvious conclusions are inherently drawn by people who can read. This is the ultimate trolling done by DRK supporters, running their own MNs... The trolls went away because this crap is better than anything they can stir up... Just read it! Why would you expect anything else? I'm seriously irritated that I have to explain it... If I whack you in the face with a rusty shovel, do I have to explain that it might hurt? That it will probably hurt? That, in fact, it's very unlikely to have any other outcome other than pain? Evan laid it all out... Probability, Standard Deviation, Bad Actors... Add it up, jeez!

Look at the chart Evan posted of the payment probabilities based on the pure math. Look at all the rare payment possibilities. It is entirely possible, in fact likely, that many of those rare instances were blocks found by bad actors and thus left a hole in the probability stats... Taht might have been your block, but the shitpool stole it out from under you.

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.OROCOIN.
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chaeplin
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June 30, 2014, 04:55:10 AM
 #40363

active nm of 93985, grep to expected payee
http://pastebin.com/MWcctL5H
camosoul
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June 30, 2014, 04:55:45 AM
 #40364

It's stupid to expect level results.
Fairness in payments will make masternodes more attractive to those running them and those looking to run them.

Potential investors will expect calculable (deterministic) returns.

I understand the gaussian distribution. My concern is it's period and the effect that has on those that do or may contribute to the strength of the network.
The network is fucked right now. It'll make more sense when it's not fucked. Spork. Enforcement OFF. Are you even paying attention? You're arguing for something that is already being done... It's just being thrown out of whack by bad actors while ENFORCEMENT == OFF. The payments will more closely reflect actual probability once the bad actors are booted.

How many times do I have to connect the dots? I really do have better things to do than watch DRK holders troll their own forum...

I must accept the fact that I can only help people who help themselves... I cannot force you to read.

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.OROCOIN.
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chaeplin
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June 30, 2014, 04:57:55 AM
Last edit: June 30, 2014, 08:59:53 AM by chaeplin
 #40365

80 hours and no payment. I should have sold my 1k 4 days ago to buy back in now. Would have made a couple hundred drk  Tongue
Im sure it will all work out, I need to get busy to stop watching it.

Post your address, I will grep address on recorded getblocktemplate results.

Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe
Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe has 1 expected payment.
http://drk.poolhash.org/doubleshot.html?block=92938

Coinotron did not pay you.
http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?92938.htm


Code:
user@sv:~/doubleshot> grep Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe getblocktemplate/*
getblocktemplate/92938.txt:{"masternode_payments": true, "coinbaseaux": {"flags": "062f503253482f"}, "votes": [], "previousblockhash": "0000000000017494e6c1652d6c594d0c09416b9161278c99c33cc754160cb86b", "target": "00000000000a9f0c000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000", "noncerange": "00000000ffffffff", "transactions": [{"hash": "6f64c89ecf62cfdaaa8329315355d89420b17602aa85262b235a70a50aba3533", "depends": [], "fee": 0, "data": "01000000011cf96a28f489636a3e015fd633abfbb1b0e09f9237bedbce54661a1119390db8000000006b48304502204e078c5ccb18842438f68d33a5ee602f900e0f4f772d462d17cc38f58a1e1775022100e16bbc033a70bc122a8a7ee86fae3abd6fb2a40693a427e7c532ca809e410b97012103a254d948ff70bbf19f7e7dd97001f11e3ae4869eae015b537f687d16bcb1d2abffffffff010065cd1d000000001976a91406fe1565a94d0691e74e34350f91b3be4959e71288ac00000000", "sigops": 1}], "mintime": 1403929596, "sigoplimit": 20000, "curtime": 1403931067, "height": 92938, "payee": "Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe", "version": 2, "coinbasevalue": 500000000, "sizelimit": 1000000, "enforce_masternode_payments": false, "mutable": ["time", "transactions", "prevblock"], "bits": "1b0a9f0c"}



camosoul
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June 30, 2014, 05:00:14 AM
 #40366

80 hours and no payment. I should have sold my 1k 4 days ago to buy back in now. Would have made a couple hundred drk  Tongue
Im sure it will all work out, I need to get busy to stop watching it.
Post your address, I will grep address on recorded getblocktemplate results.
Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe
Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe has 1 expected payment.
http://drk.poolhash.org/doubleshot.html?block=92938

Coinotron did not paid you.
http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?92938.htm
Quote
user@sv:~/doubleshot> grep Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe getblocktemplate/*
getblocktemplate/92938.txt:{"masternode_payments": true, "coinbaseaux": {"flags": "062f503253482f"}, "votes": [], "previousblockhash": "0000000000017494e6c1652d6c594d0c09416b9161278c99c33cc754160cb86b", "target": "00000000000a9f0c000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000", "noncerange": "00000000ffffffff", "transactions": [{"hash": "6f64c89ecf62cfdaaa8329315355d89420b17602aa85262b235a70a50aba3533", "depends": [], "fee": 0, "data": "01000000011cf96a28f489636a3e015fd633abfbb1b0e09f9237bedbce54661a1119390db800000 0006b48304502204e078c5ccb18842438f68d33a5ee602f900e0f4f772d462d17cc38f58a1e1775 022100e16bbc033a70bc122a8a7ee86fae3abd6fb2a40693a427e7c532ca809e410b97012103a25 4d948ff70bbf19f7e7dd97001f11e3ae4869eae015b537f687d16bcb1d2abffffffff010065cd1d 000000001976a91406fe1565a94d0691e74e34350f91b3be4959e71288ac00000000", "sigops": 1}], "mintime": 1403929596, "sigoplimit": 20000, "curtime": 1403931067, "height": 92938, "payee": "Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe", "version": 2, "coinbasevalue": 500000000, "sizelimit": 1000000, "enforce_masternode_payments": false, "mutable": ["time", "transactions", "prevblock"], "bits": "1b0a9f0c"}
See? What did I say, like, 25 times now? Block came, had your name on it, shitpool robbed you...

This was made clear from the moment Spork was announced...

Your MN would have gotten that payment. But Coinotron decided to fuck you and take that coin for itself.

This is exactly what was expected, even hoped for: a way to see debug of the manner in which bad actors are fucking the network so that a form of enforcement could be created to filter them out. testnet was too sterile. It had to be observed live. And that's exactly what we're doing...

.
.OROCOIN.
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ddink7
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June 30, 2014, 05:04:28 AM
 #40367

active nm of 93985, grep to expected payee
http://pastebin.com/MWcctL5H

El Presidente, can you check mine?

XtzrcCsxS3eA3LejArCt7F7BdWC33MR9ry

Dash - Digital Cash
https://www.dash.org/
TanteStefana2
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June 30, 2014, 05:04:49 AM
 #40368

I have the strangest problem.  I just installed a new hard drive in my Ubuntu machine and then I installed darkcoind and darkcoin-qt.  When I start them, neither one will create a wallet.dat file!

I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I am also trying my hand at installing P2pool.  But I can't go any farther until my wallet works.  No errors when I start darkcoind and do getinfo  But the gui wallet says no wallet has been loaded.  Very weird.  If I put a wallet.dat file in there, it doesn't load either.  Can anyone help me here?  I've rebooted the machine, but it still doesn't work.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
camosoul
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June 30, 2014, 05:05:44 AM
 #40369

I have the strangest problem.  I just installed a new hard drive in my Ubuntu machine and then I installed darkcoind and darkcoin-qt.  When I start them, neither one will create a wallet.dat file!

I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I am also trying my hand at installing P2pool.  But I can't go any farther until my wallet works.  No errors when I start darkcoind and do getinfo  But the gui wallet says no wallet has been loaded.  Very weird.  If I put a wallet.dat file in there, it doesn't load either.  Can anyone help me here?  I've rebooted the machine, but it still doesn't work.

Curiouser and curiouser.
Folder permissions? I've seen lots of software that doesn't report that error... Make sure the user running the program has the same ownership/permissions as the folder in which it intends to make the wallet.dat. Being a p2pool, web app, etc... Permissions might not be what you expect them to be.

.
.OROCOIN.
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chaeplin
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June 30, 2014, 05:07:02 AM
 #40370

active nm of 93985, grep to expected payee
http://pastebin.com/MWcctL5H

El Presidente, can you check mine?

XtzrcCsxS3eA3LejArCt7F7BdWC33MR9ry

1 record.

http://drk.poolhash.org/doubleshot.html?block=92937
http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?92937.htm
TanteStefana2
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June 30, 2014, 05:08:24 AM
 #40371

I have the strangest problem.  I just installed a new hard drive in my Ubuntu machine and then I installed darkcoind and darkcoin-qt.  When I start them, neither one will create a wallet.dat file!

I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but I am also trying my hand at installing P2pool.  But I can't go any farther until my wallet works.  No errors when I start darkcoind and do getinfo  But the gui wallet says no wallet has been loaded.  Very weird.  If I put a wallet.dat file in there, it doesn't load either.  Can anyone help me here?  I've rebooted the machine, but it still doesn't work.

Curiouser and curiouser.
Folder permissions? I've seen lots of software that doesn't report that error... Make sure the user running the program has the same ownership/permissions as the folder in which it intends to make the wallet.dat. Being a p2pool, web app, etc... Permissions might not be what you expect them to be.

Thank you, I will check that!  I tend to forget all the lessons I've learned in the past and have to relearn each time.  I get brain hiccups, LOL

Welp, It didn't help, LOL, but I did delete the .darkcoin folder and it started anew without issue.  Shoulda done that the first time, LOL

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
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June 30, 2014, 05:08:51 AM
 #40372

Probability did exactly as anticipated. Shitpool fucked you; stole your money.

.
.OROCOIN.
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June 30, 2014, 05:09:44 AM
 #40373

The MNs I'm looking after has payment variance of 2 to 8 Drks. All have been paid. I think generating a new MN privkey is sufficient. Changing the IP seemed to have no extra effect for me. Hope that helps someone.
Sadly, no.

We're going on 96 hours now with no payments on my MN. I understand variance, but I'm beginning to lose faith here. Even under the most optimistic projections (500 nodes and only 50% paid blocks) we're looking at (1 - ((499/500)^(298*4))) = 91.96% chance of my node having been paid.
NO! PAY ATTENTION!

It is entirely possible, even probable and likely, that the block that would have paid you was issued by a pool that is not performing payments. The block that had your name on it might have paid you if it came from a legitimate pool.

The point being, the block that paid you was probably found, and you would have gotten paid; but there are still enough bad actors on the network that even thought the probability says you'd get paid, that block was issued by an entity that is refusing to comply and keeping the coin for itself instead of paying you like it should have.

Due to the density of bad actors still on the network, it could be as long as 2 weeks before you get paid becasue if you're exceptionally unlucky, plus that block pops out of a non-paying pool, even when you do get voted lucky, you're still not getting paid because the pool kept it for itself instead of paying you.

How many times do I have to explain this shit! It's not that fucking hard to understand...

You probably have been voted a payment. But a shitpool stole it instead of giving it to you. Spork. Enforcement OFF. Why is nobody reading this stuff? I'm not even running an MN yet and I have done my homework.. Hell, it's not even homework, just open eyes, face forward... There's some crotchety old woman set to be cloned without her knowledge who's got it all figured out...

0.9 and 0.10 might also be picking and choosing differently... That's the whole fucking point of testing this code on livenet... Testnet is too sterile to see the problems. With Spork Tehcnology, we can see the problems without borking the coin on failforks... Has this not been repeatedly explained for pages and pages on multiple forums?
Camo, I like you bud, but you can be a little high strung lol!

I don't recall seeing it explained that clearly and it makes sense that way. I'm still very intrigued by the guy that's received 14 payments...in fact I'm a little more concerned about that than I am about me. The odds have got to be phenominal, ESPECIALLY with all the bad actors.
I'm a little wound up because these facts have been clear since the moment RC3 was released... It was not explained in the same way that no one ever explained how to breathe... The facts were provided and obvious conclusions are inherently drawn by people who can read. This is the ultimate trolling done by DRK supporters, running their own MNs... The trolls went away because this crap is better than anything they can stir up... Just read it! Why would you expect anything else? I'm seriously irritated that I have to explain it... If I whack you in the face with a rusty shovel, do I have to explain that it might hurt? That it will probably hurt? That, in fact, it's very unlikely to have any other outcome other than pain? Evan laid it all out... Probability, Standard Deviation, Bad Actors... Add it up, jeez!

Look at the chart Evan posted of the payment probabilities based on the pure math. Look at all the rare payment possibilities. It is entirely possible, in fact likely, that many of those rare instances were blocks found by bad actors and thus left a hole in the probability stats... Taht might have been your block, but the shitpool stole it out from under you.

Is it entirely necessary to be an ass? I'm a college professor by profession and ranting and raving seems to produce suboptimal results, at least with my students.

If you don't have the patience to deal with non-technical guys like me, then just ignore us.

I have never once said MNs are broken. I have never once called into question the credibility of DRK. I have never once done anything to jeopardize the precious short-term price of your DRKs (like I even care about the short term, anyway?)

I'm going to post my questions and concerns here. I'm going to post my insights and triumphs here. I'm going to post the good and the bad, as I see it. If I'm wrong, you can call me out. But there's no need to be see damn volatile. THAT does more to weaken DRK than anything, by making potential users think we have a shitty community that can't even engage in polite discourse.

I've been following this thread for the last several hundred pages. You'll just have to forgive me if I mistakenly skimmed over your brilliant prior explanations.

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chaeplin
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June 30, 2014, 05:10:39 AM
 #40374

80 hours and no payment. I should have sold my 1k 4 days ago to buy back in now. Would have made a couple hundred drk  Tongue
Im sure it will all work out, I need to get busy to stop watching it.
Post your address, I will grep address on recorded getblocktemplate results.
Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe
Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe has 1 expected payment.
http://drk.poolhash.org/doubleshot.html?block=92938

Coinotron did not paid you.
http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?92938.htm
Quote
user@sv:~/doubleshot> grep Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe getblocktemplate/*
getblocktemplate/92938.txt:{"masternode_payments": true, "coinbaseaux": {"flags": "062f503253482f"}, "votes": [], "previousblockhash": "0000000000017494e6c1652d6c594d0c09416b9161278c99c33cc754160cb86b", "target": "00000000000a9f0c000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000", "noncerange": "00000000ffffffff", "transactions": [{"hash": "6f64c89ecf62cfdaaa8329315355d89420b17602aa85262b235a70a50aba3533", "depends": [], "fee": 0, "data": "01000000011cf96a28f489636a3e015fd633abfbb1b0e09f9237bedbce54661a1119390db800000 0006b48304502204e078c5ccb18842438f68d33a5ee602f900e0f4f772d462d17cc38f58a1e1775 022100e16bbc033a70bc122a8a7ee86fae3abd6fb2a40693a427e7c532ca809e410b97012103a25 4d948ff70bbf19f7e7dd97001f11e3ae4869eae015b537f687d16bcb1d2abffffffff010065cd1d 000000001976a91406fe1565a94d0691e74e34350f91b3be4959e71288ac00000000", "sigops": 1}], "mintime": 1403929596, "sigoplimit": 20000, "curtime": 1403931067, "height": 92938, "payee": "Xrr9QM87kBrkns5LPF4FMyNBiu8Syc6ZAe", "version": 2, "coinbasevalue": 500000000, "sizelimit": 1000000, "enforce_masternode_payments": false, "mutable": ["time", "transactions", "prevblock"], "bits": "1b0a9f0c"}
See? What did I say, like, 25 times now? Block came, had your name on it, shitpool robbed you...

This was made clear from the moment Spork was announced...

Your MN would have gotten that payment. But Coinotron decided to fuck you and take that coin for itself.

This is exactly what was expected, even hoped for: a way to see debug of the manner in which bad actors are fucking the network so that a form of enforcement could be created to filter them out. testnet was too sterile. It had to be observed live. And that's exactly what we're doing...


https://darkcointalk.org/threads/rc4-development-and-path-going-forward.1604/
Quote
New enforcement strategy

Over the last few days we’ve been looking at a few different options to enforce Masternode payments in RC4. We’ve settled on a brand new implementation that is much more simple, yet robust enough to protect the network.

Each round, a winning Masternode is chosen to carry out Darksend transactions. This process is carried out by the individual nodes across the network independently using the masternode election algorithm. This algorithm chooses a winning node for Darksend, but there is also a runner up, third, forth, fifth place, etc.

Utilizing this code, we can make a deterministic list of the “top 10 masternodes” with the winning scores. These will be the same nodes accross the network and they will vote on who they believe should get paid for that round. The winning Masternode will be the one with the most votes (up to 10 votes) and the network will reject blocks not containing that payment entry.


I don't think enforce_masternode_payments true soon.
`A deterministic list of the “top 10 masternodes”`  is first.




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June 30, 2014, 05:12:13 AM
 #40375


Thank you my friend. That makes me feel much better.

I hope Evan just ninja-enables enforcement without warning, so some of these bad actors can at least temporarily get a taste of their own medicine.

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June 30, 2014, 05:13:03 AM
Last edit: June 30, 2014, 05:36:45 AM by thunderdrum
 #40376


The rumour stops when it comes to a wise person Grin

Edit:
BTW: although i know there is some pool that don't update their version, but it also made a little surprise about the influence to the MN payment.

This is the best project in crypto----DarkCoin. Time will tell and don't blame you miss it.
FAQ
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June 30, 2014, 05:14:01 AM
 #40377

Quote
Utilizing this code, we can make a deterministic list of the “top 10 masternodes” with the winning scores. These will be the same nodes accross the network and they will vote on who they believe should get paid for that round. The winning Masternode will be the one with the most votes (up to 10 votes) and the network will reject blocks not containing that payment entry.

I read that but wasn't clear on exactly what that means? Can somebody put that in layman's terms?

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ddink7
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June 30, 2014, 05:18:03 AM
Last edit: June 30, 2014, 05:38:56 AM by ddink7
 #40378

BlackCoin Pool is a bad actor. They are not paying MNs. Please move your hash power elsewhere.

http://drk.poolhash.org/doubleshot.html?block=92937

Feel free to make a list of non-complying pools and I will add them to the Bad Actor List and keep it updated and bumped regularly

---BAD ACTORS LIST---

The following pools have had over 96 hours to update their clients to the latest version and begin paying Masternodes. They have, to date, refused to do so. At this point, I believe the community should label them as "bad actors" and encourage their miners to move their hashing power to complying pools:

[PENDING]

Please help me to keep this post updated. Thank you!

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camosoul
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June 30, 2014, 05:20:24 AM
 #40379

I have never once done anything to jeopardize the precious short-term price of your DRKs (like I even care about the short term, anyway?)
Thanks for the ad hominem, Professor... I've been hodling before you even found out about DRK. I care not for the short-term price, either. This has nothing to do with "technical." You would fail your own class, no matter what you teach, with double-standards and nonsense excuses like this... This is nothing more than reading comprehension.

I don't care if you can sort the pearls out or not. I'm not the Fact Welfare.

This is a damn good example of why I quit college, TWICE; I could learn every subject 10x faster on my own than any of the fools being paid to spout entitlement propaganda instead of teaching... College is for people who, after 12 years of schooling, are still too stupid to figure out anything on their own... And even then, they still can't, and have massive student loans to pay off to go along with being too stupid to avoid that, too. The only thing I've ever seen a college student learn, is how to vote to force others to pay for the mess they've made.

Pain is an excellent teacher, and apparently a better one than you if only you'd listen to it.

Are you too arrogant to see it? Have I "offended" you?

Thanks, but, No Thanks. I'll do without the student loans...

.
.OROCOIN.
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June 30, 2014, 05:22:00 AM
 #40380

Quote
Utilizing this code, we can make a deterministic list of the “top 10 masternodes” with the winning scores. These will be the same nodes accross the network and they will vote on who they believe should get paid for that round. The winning Masternode will be the one with the most votes (up to 10 votes) and the network will reject blocks not containing that payment entry.
I read that but wasn't clear on exactly what that means? Can somebody put that in layman's terms?
It looks like layman's terms to me already. Sorry... Don't know how to make it any more clear without lying...

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