[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[smoothdoger]

the whole discussion today is about masternode owners shutting off pow mining and doing it all themselvs, maybe you do not see it because you have your anti troll filters running full blast

I'm still waiting on a sensible argument as to why miners are 4X more valuable to DRK than Masternodes...

MNp2pool mining solves a lot of problems and also provides an easy way to integrate Masternode shares at a protocol level for people who can't or don't want to put up an entire Masternode, and allows MNp2pool ops to free up DRK to deploy more Masternodes if the MNp2pool node balance remains above 1000DRK due to miners carrying a balance there to earn MN shares.

50/50 MN/miner split sounds very reasonable to me with this approach.

well right now about 60% of the network is not even making masternode payments because they do not comply with rc5. so lets wait untill enforcement and instant tx are in and then maybe you would have an argument because right now miners print the dark and mn mix'em and other than that mn's do dickall and dont even deserve the 20% imo

[thelonecrouton]

the whole discussion today is about masternode owners shutting off pow mining and doing it all themselvs, maybe you do not see it because you have your anti troll filters running full blast

I'm still waiting on a sensible argument as to why miners are 4X more valuable to DRK than Masternodes...

MNp2pool mining solves a lot of problems and also provides an easy way to integrate Masternode shares at a protocol level for people who can't or don't want to put up an entire Masternode, and allows MNp2pool ops to free up DRK to deploy more Masternodes if the MNp2pool node balance remains above 1000DRK due to miners carrying a balance there to earn MN shares.

50/50 MN/miner split sounds very reasonable to me with this approach.

well right now about 60% of the network is not even making masternode payments because they do not comply with rc5. so lets wait untill enforcement and instant tx are in and then maybe you would have an argument because right now miners print the dark and mn mix'em and other than that mn's do dickall and dont even deserve the 20% imo

Actually over 76% of pools ARE paying Masternodes currently: https://drk.mn/blocks.html

And do you really believe that without MNs and anonymous transactions DRK would still be worth anthing close to what it is?

[camosoul]

There is a problem when asics come along and suddenly only an elite group has the chance to mine though.  

Hey Tante,
The idea being proposed isn't to only allow MN operators to mine, but to do away with mining completely. The MN network would handle block generation and distribute payments in the same manner as the current 20% they receive off blocks. So no asics at all.

wow, so the entire future of DRK lies in the hands of a few completely centralized masternode owners?

No it's just something this G string guy and a few others are ranting on about, basically they should of got into building a centralised banking machine that could be sold once set up  rather than supporting a decentralised crypto but there we go it's a free world so we stuck with um.

I ignore trolls spreading lies and FUD, so I don't know waht crap they're telling now... There is no centralized anything in DRK. Lies designed to fool the stupid. Grow a brain and you won't have to wonder who is telling the truth or decide who to believe.

Crazy people talking about bad ideas, that they do not understand are bad ideas, does not mean the devs are going to do it...

May as well try to tell an anti-gun idiot that guns are good things... They're stupid and brainwashed. Just ignore them.

the whole discussion today is about masternode owners shutting off pow mining and doing it all themselvs, maybe you do not see it because you have your anti troll filters running full blast

No, that's not what the discussion is. The people who don't understand the value of PoW are trying to turn it into that. This topic was started as simply using the MNs as the mining pool to elimiante the band-aid defect of mining pools that has become almost ubiquitous in crypto because everything is a clone of BTC - including it's defects. Most of us don't even realize that mining pools are a defect because we're so used to them.

Get rid of mining pools, there is no more 51% concern. Solves many problems at once.

Those advocating the end of PoW are just not smart enough to understand what PoW does and how it is helpful.

My choice to try to keep the convo on track is not a lack of seeing where the morons are trying to go with it...

[smoothdoger]

the whole discussion today is about masternode owners shutting off pow mining and doing it all themselvs, maybe you do not see it because you have your anti troll filters running full blast

I'm still waiting on a sensible argument as to why miners are 4X more valuable to DRK than Masternodes...

MNp2pool mining solves a lot of problems and also provides an easy way to integrate Masternode shares at a protocol level for people who can't or don't want to put up an entire Masternode, and allows MNp2pool ops to free up DRK to deploy more Masternodes if the MNp2pool node balance remains above 1000DRK due to miners carrying a balance there to earn MN shares.

50/50 MN/miner split sounds very reasonable to me with this approach.

well right now about 60% of the network is not even making masternode payments because they do not comply with rc5. so lets wait untill enforcement and instant tx are in and then maybe you would have an argument because right now miners print the dark and mn mix'em and other than that mn's do dickall and dont even deserve the 20% imo

Actually over 76% of pools ARE paying Masternodes currently: https://drk.mn/blocks.html

And do you really believe that without MNs and anonymous transactions DRK would still be worth anthing close to what it is?

drk was over $15 without mn's and is $2.50 with them

[camosoul]

the whole discussion today is about masternode owners shutting off pow mining and doing it all themselvs, maybe you do not see it because you have your anti troll filters running full blast

I'm still waiting on a sensible argument as to why miners are 4X more valuable to DRK than Masternodes...

You're not going to get one. They're not worth that much.

You are correct. Your opponent is incorrect. There is nothing to talk about.

[camosoul]

drk was over $15 without mn's and is $2.50 with them

The sky was blue when my car broke down, but it was dark and the moon was out when it ran fine...

Irrelevant metric is irrelevant.

Assuredly, there are idiots falling for the "centralized coinjoin" FUD and that migh be having an impact, but that is the point of a destrictive troll; to make people think that irrelevant things are in fact relevant. If the masses are stupid enough to fall for it, and they are, then that irrelevant metric, a metric that may not even be real, becomes valid in the minds of those not smart enough to realize it's a lie.

We see the same issue with the "put words int heir mouths" trolls. Making up things that were never said by the devs, then claiming they've failed to deliver something that was never promised or even mentioned in the first place. The most clever one is the total fabrication promise troll. This one makes up a feature that has never been mentioned and isn't real so that when someone tries to do research on it, they get nothing but the false mentions of the things that doesn't exist... It makes itself look true, and the people who think 20 seconds of googling makes them smart and qualifies as research, then fall for this troll.

Such goes politics and crypto....

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

Those advocating the end of PoW are just not smart enough to understand what PoW does and how it is helpful.

Camo, POW is brilliant. It was a genius way to secure the bitcoin network. I'm not 100% certain we don't need it, but I can't seem to find anyone who can tell me why masternodes can't do the job even better. You have very clearly explained that you think POW is important. I agree. Now explain why, from a technical stand point, it is necessary at all for DRK if the masternodes can complete the same task even better.

[camosoul]

Those advocating the end of PoW are just not smart enough to understand what PoW does and how it is helpful.

Camo, POW is brilliant. It was a genius way to secure the bitcoin network. I'm not 100% certain we don't need it, but I can't seem to find anyone who can tell me why masternodes can't do the job even better. You have very clearly explained that you think POW is important. I agree. Now explain why, from a technical stand point, it is necessary at all for DRK if the masternodes can complete the same task even better.

I mentioned several reason s why many pages ago. You were caught up in other arguments and maybe didn't notice. I'm not keen to repeat myself while being ignored...

PoW is law of the wild. It's a brute-force concept that can be set free to anyone able. It keeps the network externally exposed and that keeps it honest. The code is open source, so is the proof of work. If we completely internalize the coin production, it's nothing more than a Proof of Stake/Federal Reserve/QE again. Yes, the MNs are providing Service, but it loses it's connection to the underlying paradoxical ruleset that makes crypto work. It's basically the same argument as "we don't need guns." If you lack the intellect to figure out why that is a bad choice, you definitely should not have the power to force that choice handicap upon others.

You need a wasteful, brutal concept to keep the paradox working when you're using the ugliest traits to leverage your security. It's a perfect combination and it works. It's worked as a stand-alone metric since the inception of crypto. It was chosen and used because the reaction was unmeasurable and unknowable. It was a wise selection because, as it turns out, humans are garbage. Any other metric would have failed. The law of the wild should never stop being part of an unregulated currency, because that is exactly what it is. Pretending to be more civilized will only get you killed. Choosing to be helpless does not make you safe from those less enlightened.

Greed will drive the base. We're dealing with digital money here. The very nature of it will attract the lowest of the low, and the only way a ruleset can work in that range is if it is based on a paradox that feeds it's own brutality. Use the greed to beat the greed into submission. If you do not maintain your connection tot he law of the wild, you will be compromised and your coin will be useless. Only the deeply stupid buy or use Proof of Hoard coins.

Fundamentally, no single block proof metric will ever be better than 2 or more combined. Why not use what we know is a solid rock? You can MN if you want. Mine if you want. Do both. Or neither. The network benefits either way. If you've got the solar panels to push TH into the network, do it! If not, run a MN. If you can't figure any of it out, get a job and sell your life for fiat. Whatever...

[Propulsion]

Here is my cost analyzation of miners vs MN's.
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-oct-1-2014.2561/page-12#post-23617

In the future, it might have to be adjusted when mining becomes more efficient, as it is now though, I like it.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Wow. This is huge. Antonopolis is THE voice of Bitcoin. If he's advocating mainstream adoption of "fully private crypto" then we're in business.

https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/518061153030012930

DRK's the only one that can do it. All the rest are one way or another f*ckd - either from no legacy interface or their developers succumbed to politics.

"fully private crypto" is a little ambiguous though. I would have prefered the questioner saying a "fully anonymous crypto"

Nobody of us says "private" coin, we all are putting emphasize on "anonymity"...

Private coin sounds strange, like it's somebody's private coin, that he totally owns and we are his slaves, you know like Federal Reserve Notes.

I believe that it is important to brand ourselves as private currency. My twitter interactions have backed up this viewpoint. Anonymous is exclusive, has too many negative connotations and should be avoided to aid mass adoption.

DARKCOIN: DIGITAL PRIVATE CURRENCY

Gold! It's been proven.

See my Jira proposal:

http://jira.darkcoin.qa/browse/DRK-93

[semajjames]

evan told me hes always dumping when he can
-> always sell on delivery

Oh? Evan told me he covered himself in peanut butter and had a fifteen hooker gangbang.

See? I can make declarative statements, too!

that's strange he told me gooseberry spread ,, that means one or both must be true :-)

[smoothdoger]

Those advocating the end of PoW are just not smart enough to understand what PoW does and how it is helpful.

Camo, POW is brilliant. It was a genius way to secure the bitcoin network. I'm not 100% certain we don't need it, but I can't seem to find anyone who can tell me why masternodes can't do the job even better. You have very clearly explained that you think POW is important. I agree. Now explain why, from a technical stand point, it is necessary at all for DRK if the masternodes can complete the same task even better.

because it is not any better for the MN to totally control coin production, even a Proof of stake system is better than that, its cheaper to run than a MN and everyone who has coins can contribute not just those with 1000+ coins.
We all know POS coins are garbage but yet its still a better cheaper system than what you suggest

pow is not perfect and supporting it with MN's is the "perfect solution"

[camosoul]

evan told me hes always dumping when he can
-> always sell on delivery

Oh? Evan told me he covered himself in peanut butter and had a fifteen hooker gangbang.

See? I can make declarative statements, too!

that's strange he told me gooseberry spread ,, that means one or both must be true :-)

No, it was ground orphan meat because Dr. Evan, President of DarkNetCoinBad, wants to kill babies by supporting the deep web with bad evil guns and bad evil drugs! Be an idiot sheeple, it's the only way!

[camosoul]

Wow. This is huge. Antonopolis is THE voice of Bitcoin. If he's advocating mainstream adoption of "fully private crypto" then we're in business.

https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/518061153030012930

DRK's the only one that can do it. All the rest are one way or another f*ckd - either from no legacy interface or their developers succumbed to politics.

"fully private crypto" is a little ambiguous though. I would have prefered the questioner saying a "fully anonymous crypto"

Nobody of us says "private" coin, we all are putting emphasize on "anonymity"...

Private coin sounds strange, like it's somebody's private coin, that he totally owns and we are his slaves, you know like Federal Reserve Notes.

I believe that it is important to brand ourselves as private currency. My twitter interactions have backed up this viewpoint. Anonymous is exclusive, has too many negative connotations and should be avoided to aid mass adoption.

DARKCOIN: DIGITAL PRIVATE CURRENCY

Gold! It's been proven.

See my Jira proposal:

http://jira.darkcoin.qa/browse/DRK-93

I think anon is a better way to describe it. Private suggests that it's hidden. The blockchain is completely transparent. You simply can't tell what the hell is happening on it. That is completely visible. Anon is a visible thing that can't be identified. Private is a thing that nobody can tell is there... We can certainly see everything on the blockchain, so it isn't really private, per say. It gleans privacy from that fact that the fully exposed and provable information is not identifiable. Zebra theory.

[toknormal]

Frantic trading on BTCe Bitcoin / USD market. The battle for the future is being fought as we speak.

Market hammered down to 350 in the last hour, but demand still seems healthy. 60 BTC sellwall placed right on 350 got eaten in about 30 seconds. So it seems that when real liquidity appears there's significant demand but when granular BTC is all that's being traded the price drifts down.

Oooops !! 100 BTC sellwall placed as I speak - lets see what happens to this.................some major dumping happening.

That isn't getting eaten and the market's suddenly at a standstill. Nobody knows which way this is going to go. If it shoots back up that 100 BTC's dust. On the other hand if the 350 support disappears we may be headed for the $200's and back to 2013 prices.

..349
...348

panic setting in. BTCe trollbox busy.

Meanwhile, the favourable publicicty just keeps on coming...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/11138581/Bitcoin-will-become-the-new-gold.html

[eduffield]

Proof-of-stake, Proof-of-work and Proof-of-service:

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-oct-1-2014.2561/page-12#post-23620

[camosoul]

Frantic trading on BTCe Bitcoin / USD market. The battle for the future is being fought as we speak.

Market hammered down to 350 in the last hour, but demand still seems healthy. 60 BTC sellwall placed right on 350 got eaten in about 30 seconds. So it seems that when real liquidity appears there's significant demand but when granular BTC is all that's being traded the price drifts down.

Oooops !! 100 BTC sellwall placed as I speak - lets see what happens to this.................some major dumping happening.

That isn't getting eaten and the market's suddenly at a standstill. Nobody knows which way this is going to go. If it shoots back up that 100 BTC's dust. On the other hand if the 350 support disappears we may be headed for the $200's and back to 2013 prices.

..349
...348

panic setting in. BTCe trollbox busy.

Humanity displays it's true nature... Carnage, chaos, all rooted in general stupidity.

This is why we need PoW. You'll never get better security than when you leverage the damn dirty apes... Therea re plenty of other reasons for it, but even failing that, the fact taht humans exist and are the ones using it; you get rid of the law of the wild, you stop punishing the negative by bashing it with the positive while taking that positive for yourself... It all falls apart. Look at cities. Look at the people who live there... We don't have those problems out here in the sticks... Get it?

[dotnetmin]

Frantic trading on BTCe Bitcoin / USD market. The battle for the future is being fought as we speak.

Market hammered down to 350 in the last hour, but demand still seems healthy. 60 BTC sellwall placed right on 350 got eaten in about 30 seconds. So it seems that when real liquidity appears there's significant demand but when granular BTC is all that's being traded the price drifts down.

Oooops !! 100 BTC sellwall placed as I speak - lets see what happens to this.................some major dumping happening.

That isn't getting eaten and the market's suddenly at a standstill. Nobody knows which way this is going to go. If it shoots back up that 100 BTC's dust. On the other hand if the 350 support disappears we may be headed for the $200's and back to 2013 prices.

..349
...348

panic setting in. BTCe trollbox busy.

Meanwhile, the favourable publicicty just keeps on coming...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/11138581/Bitcoin-will-become-the-new-gold.html

2013 was the baddest year for real assets like gold and silver
2014 gold and silver came back a bit and now we are again on the badest level of 2013 in gold and much
more worst for silver.

2014 was a disaster for BTC and all other cryptos

Can you see whats going on organzied by FED and US and their puppets in Europe

The real devil can't accept anything side by side with the US$
In that environment DRK does the best it can do.
Latest time they see the potential of DRK they will destroy it.
They can' t do with steady selling (and there is no possibilty of nacked shorts) because they do not own it
now. The will use the mainstream media to hurt BTC and DRK.
Hopefully some modern slaves wake up and become able to see the real enemy !!!

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

Well, Daddy spoke. It was fun debating with you guys! Hope I didn't muck up the thread too bad.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Wow. This is huge. Antonopolis is THE voice of Bitcoin. If he's advocating mainstream adoption of "fully private crypto" then we're in business.

https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/518061153030012930

DRK's the only one that can do it. All the rest are one way or another f*ckd - either from no legacy interface or their developers succumbed to politics.

"fully private crypto" is a little ambiguous though. I would have prefered the questioner saying a "fully anonymous crypto"

Nobody of us says "private" coin, we all are putting emphasize on "anonymity"...

Private coin sounds strange, like it's somebody's private coin, that he totally owns and we are his slaves, you know like Federal Reserve Notes.

I believe that it is important to brand ourselves as private currency. My twitter interactions have backed up this viewpoint. Anonymous is exclusive, has too many negative connotations and should be avoided to aid mass adoption.

DARKCOIN: DIGITAL PRIVATE CURRENCY

Gold! It's been proven.

See my Jira proposal:

http://jira.darkcoin.qa/browse/DRK-93

I think anon is a better way to describe it. Private suggests that it's hidden. The blockchain is completely transparent. You simply can't tell what the hell is happening on it. That is completely visible. Anon is a visible thing that can't be identified. Private is a thing that nobody can tell is there... We can certainly see everything on the blockchain, so it isn't really private, per say. It gleans privacy from that fact that the fully exposed and provable information is not identifiable. Zebra theory.

Your points are valid, I'm just giving you the pulse of the people who want to get in to the Dark. They will be spreading the word, leading to $$$$!