[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[Jaguar0625]

Is NEM completely in the idea/marketing phase?

Any progress on modifying, writing, or testing code?

Yes. We are currently working on a development plan. The ETA on that is sometime this weekend. Then we will open it up for comments from the community for a few days before more or less locking it and ramping up the development.

[ZeroTheGreat]

you guys are killing me.  where can I go to read more on this PoN?  Cause google aint doin it for me

It's unimplemented idea for now. As some other PoX are.

To sign a block u'll need to setup a node and chance to generate a block will be 1/(visible) nodes, and as always longest chain win - basic scheme. I don't see much benefits at all versus HUGE risks.

[Jaguar0625]

NXT 0.6.0 was released.
AFAIK this version is the one they were holding back a little due to major refactoring they were trying to keep away from clones as long as possible.

Is this verison going to be the base for NEM ?

I am a bit concerned about this.  I heard fork thrown about, now I hear about a rewrite from scratch.  I'd prefer a fork with adjustments or find real value to add if from scratch.

The NXT code base makes some of the things that we want to do hard. I haven't looked at the 0.6.0 sources yet. If possible, we will reuse parts of it. If not, we have the resources to rewrite NEM from the ground up.

[Thyrumax]

Look at TimeKoin.org http://timekoin.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=56
They have a very interesting system.
They've been around for years. I hear about them just few days ago.

If you intend to invest anything in it, I would be VERY, VERY cautious, search forum for creator's nick...

Thank you very much for the heads up! I wasn't planning on investing anyway, my main focus now is NEM and I follow what is happening with NXT.
Just that I saw some PoS and PoN postings here and I thought of TimeKoin. They have very eco frendly system without fees.  Maybe some of those ideas could be used for NEM?

[Jaguar0625]

PON = Proof Of Network. As I understand it it's basically you provide infrastructure for the network i.e. running a node and get something in return. The more you support the network the greater the likelyhood of you getting some coins.

Since I can't find any other ressource I'm gessing jaguar came up with it himself ?

Yes. I came up with it .

Let's assume 100% PON. So anyone can just install a client, setup a node and start forging even without initial stake/investment.
Why would you hold on to your stake if there is no difference in the gain.

It's not about forger's profit. It's about secure system. In Nxt u need coins to generate block, more coins = more chances. It makes front-attack expensive: attacker'll need biggest part of coins to write buggy chain that still'd be most diff. one (all honest chains'll be forks in this case).

If u replace PoS with PoN in start, low amount of nodes'll make network extremly vulnerable. I'm not sure even with later replacement, cos node-based attack always'll be cheaper than $/bruteforce-based attack (buy coins to generate buggy chain or crack Curve to do the same or to kill project). Should we sacriface attack cost gap for "fairness" (equal node-based forging)? I'm almost sure, that correct answer is "NO".

Even with PON, a small stake will be required for forging, so that should mitigate some concern.

[freigeist]

The NXT code base makes some of the things that we want to do hard. I haven't looked at the 0.6.0 sources yet. If possible, we will reuse parts of it. If not, we have the resources to rewrite NEM from the ground up.

Last "stable" version is 0.6.1
The last version is 0.7.0e (experimantal)
They found few fatal flaws today therefore they made 2 or 3 upgrades.

[freigeist]

Thank you very much for the heads up! I wasn't planning on investing anyway, my main focus now is NEM and I follow what is happening with NXT.
Just that I saw some PoS and PoN postings here and I thought of TimeKoin. They have very eco frendly system without fees.  Maybe some of those ideas could be used for NEM?

Hello.

Have you already tried TimeKoin?
Are you using it?

[Thyrumax]

Thank you very much for the heads up! I wasn't planning on investing anyway, my main focus now is NEM and I follow what is happening with NXT.
Just that I saw some PoS and PoN postings here and I thought of TimeKoin. They have very eco frendly system without fees.  Maybe some of those ideas could be used for NEM?

Hello.

Have you already tried TimeKoin?
Are you using it?

Moving conversation to PM.

[xax515]

1. sending money that violates "Counter sockpuppet measure" would be considered donation (from page 81 and up)- very easy to check

2. there are more complicated cases in which multiple addresses are created and funded from a mother account which would not violate "Counter sockpuppet measure" ; in these cases, we can apply the "unfairly accumulation" clause and refund the money if we have solid evidences. I still think about the ceiling limit for these cases; exceeding 0.5% of total stakes could be considered "unfairly accumulation", imho.

There will be a period of public auditing of our registration threads and stakeholder list after the fund raising is over for these issues. At this point, I am focusing on weeding out all the fraudsters first.

  

Excellent, 0.5% is a good good investment. if the percentage is less, nothing happens. It's good to live with what is necessary. Excess money rots us.

They can create 10 btc-e mother account, and only OKPAY account to transfer. Sure there are some trickster.

Some people think it's crazy, but it's the best: Send identity document for each of the stakes If this happens, NEM would expand the more friends

There may also be document forgers. Crazy world.

[c2e]

Here's an idea.

Set a new rule for the remaining shares. The rule restricts everyone but buyers who's registration date is sometime before the announcement of the coin, maybe several months before?.. and restrict the buyers to full members. Then lower the share price to a price maybe half of the current value or so. Allow buyins of multiple shares, but cap it at a small amount. This will bring in a different pool of investors. It should help fill up the spots quicker while also spreading the buyers. Thoughts?

[okaynow]

i just noticed, NEM is currently funded twice as much as NXT.
this is nice!
And considering there are still open spots, this could be a fun baby to watch it grow.

[DaFockBro]

I doubt we have 3000 newbies. And you just need to skim through the emails anyway, the purpose is to make it so that it takes 10mins to write the email but just 5 secs to skim through it. The guy creating 150 accounts would need to write 150 emails and send from 150 different addresses... impractical. We might still get the odd guy that uses his work email and his wife's email, but we are making it more difficult and at least we block the whales.

If we are going to start doing this, do we have an option for a refund?   This is a complete absurdity from the simple fact that the sock puppets can and will send you emails with some dopey story.  This is a time sink and detracts from getting a working coin out the door. My recollection is the social contract says funding accounts will be refunded so it isn't like NEM gains by keeping their money.  And if NEM did keep their money, it'd be a black eye on NEM as a whole.

Closing registration?  Now NEM is starting to really gain funds.  If the devs are going to write a lot of code then they need the money, even if it does increase the chances someone walks off with the loot.

Last I knew you have to sit on this site and lurk for some time before you can even post.  

In the end all you'll do is weed out the lesser intelligent "whales" or "scammers" or what have you.  Also, you might want to consider that the people who go through the trouble to get a few shares might give more because of their increased stake.  Having multi-accouters doesn't necessarily hurt the coin, it could in fact help.

I think we really need to implement a DNA/fingerprint rule.  1 stake per DNA/fingerprint sample.


Only problem with this is the "scammers" will start hiring sock puppet homeless people to provide DNA/fingerprint samples for them.

In order to combat the sock puppet homeless people problem we need to implant a bluetooth chip into each stakeholder that corresponds to their 1 wallet.  The NEM in the wallet will only be accessible if the bluetooth chip is within 5 feet of the computer that is running the corresponding NEM wallet.

DNA/fingerprinting is really the only way to go guys.

We should also require social security number, mother's maiden name, birth certificate, passport, proof of address, and bank account information.

Please make the distribution even more complicated than it already is.  After you've done that, I'm going to say it's still not good enough and ask you to please make it even more complicated.

[j23a]

Here's an idea.

Set a new rule for the remaining shares. The rule restricts everyone but buyers who's registration date is sometime before the announcement of the coin, maybe several months before?.. and restrict the buyers to full members. Then lower the share price to a price maybe half of the current value or so. Allow buyins of multiple shares, but cap it at a small amount. This will bring in a different pool of investors. It should help fill up the spots quicker while also spreading the buyers. Thoughts?

That would only limit it to Bitcoin talk register users, rather than bring new people in to cryptocurrency, who are the people who should be brought in. That would eliminate people who don't know anything about Bitcoin that I'm trying to bring in, and just limit it to certain people on one website. How is that fair?

[j23a]

Here's an idea.

Set a new rule for the remaining shares. The rule restricts everyone but buyers who's registration date is sometime before the announcement of the coin, maybe several months before?.. and restrict the buyers to full members. Then lower the share price to a price maybe half of the current value or so. Allow buyins of multiple shares, but cap it at a small amount. This will bring in a different pool of investors. It should help fill up the spots quicker while also spreading the buyers. Thoughts?

That would only limit it to Bitcoin talk register users, rather than bring new people in to cryptocurrency, who are the people who should be brought in. That would eliminate people who don't know anything about Bitcoin that I'm trying to bring in, and just limit it to certain people on one website. How is that fair?

I should add that of course you have to expect a lot of people to be creating multiple accounts, but you also have to consider that it all balances itself out if more people are doing that. If everyone bought two stakes, then everyone would still have a very balance market. It would be like having 2,000 stakeholder rather than 4,000, but that's still a lot of people. And I'm sure Utopianfuture thought of that when he set the number to 4,000 Stakeholders.

I think the vast majority of people complaining over and over about this issue, and trying to create scenarios for stopping the ipo are thinking so small minded, compared to the Utopianfuture understanding and approach to the situation. It's all small minded because it's all based on jealousy, and trying to lock out as much people as possible, rather than being grateful for the opportunity.

Many, many people are going to buy multiple stakes. Get over it already, because it's still more fair than any other coin that I've seen so far. Be grateful that you knew about it, and try to bring new people into the cryptocoin market. Help them set up an account. That would only benefit the NEM market. If Utopianfuture had a different, normal mentality then new people would be locked out. So I'm impressed by his mentality, because most other people are so small minded.

[ZeroTheGreat]

Even with PON, a small stake will be required for forging, so that should mitigate some concern.

I'm looking forward for accurate comparing calculations.

[gramufibus]

I agree that something must be done to combat corruption of NEM's intended fair distribution.  I think the measures being executed by the devs are probably adequate.
However, come on people! It is appalling that closing this off to established forum members is being tossed around as a sensible idea. 
If anything there should be a drive to attract new members to join the forum.  Let's speculate that the forum veterancy rule was enforced from the start.  Were there even 4000 established forum regulars that would care enough about NEM to join?

[DaFockBro]

I agree that something must be done to combat corruption of NEM's intended fair distribution.  I think the measures being executed by the devs are probably adequate.
However, come on people! It is appalling that closing this off to established forum members is being tossed around as a sensible idea. 
If anything there should be a drive to attract new members to join the forum.  Let's speculate that the forum veterancy rule was enforced from the start.  Were there even 4000 established forum regulars that would care enough about NEM to join?

I think the measures are anti-whale measures rather than anti-sock puppet.

Short of requesting identity documents (epic fail in the crypto world), there will always be a way for people to create sock puppets and claim multiple stakes.

However, the measures in place do prevent a whale from gaining a 4% stake in NEM during the ipo.  It is too time consuming for someone to create 120 different bitcointalk accounts, wait the required 4 hours on each before they can post in the registration thread, then create 120 different wallets to send the fee from.


NEM, the first whale-resistant currency.

[Krombi666]

are you stupid?
circulated but not everything on utopianfuture. everyone can look but even after muliple accounts and report them! Is that so hard?
And no nobody here will send his ID card or a copy of the identity card! We are not here at NSA.

Order other issues and the search for multiple accounts in the background and report it to utopianfuture in a private message

[Fatih87SK]

Maybe a picture of each stakeholder with the transaction ID written on a paper in his hand is enough.

This will set the fraudsters get to work =)

[j23a]

Somebody keeps pushing the NXT price down. It's really annoying. I bought 10,000 NXT a few weeks ago for .00007 Bitcoins each. I went to BTER and saw that the lowest price was at .0000718. I decided to checkout how much those 10,000 that I bought last week would be worth if I sold them for .0000718, and in less than 10 seconds after I went to the page somebody had posted like 4 or 5 new sell order for under .000069. Including one for 14,000 NXT. Why not just sell slightly below the current lowest price? These people keep pushing the price down. The other week it was at around .000097 or so, then someone came and every 5 seconds kept selling 10 to 20,000 NXT for lower price, and lower price, and lower price, every few seconds, until the price was in the .000070s, and then it went to .000085, and then a repeat of the same process. It's annoying. The price would have probably been over .0001 right now if it wasn't for that.