[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[newNEM]

NEM smartwatch app. Keeping the dream alive.

http://cdn1.appleinsider.com/0204-iwatch-1.jpg

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/05/25/inside-the-iwatch-the-technology-apple-is-looking-at-for-your-wrist

In June, Samsung may unveil a "watch-phone", a smartwatch that can make or receive calls without having to be tethered to a mobile phone.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/23/samsung-mobilephone-idUSL1N0O911Q20140523

Microsoft files for smartwatch patent
money.cnn.com/2014/05/06/technology/innovation/microsoft-smartwatch/

I dont see anything related to NEM, not even a word on the watch. Did you get some picture from somewhere?

[1714848150]

1714848150

[1714848150]

1714848150

[Rich1970]

NEM smartwatch app. Keeping the dream alive.

http://cdn1.appleinsider.com/0204-iwatch-1.jpg

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/05/25/inside-the-iwatch-the-technology-apple-is-looking-at-for-your-wrist

In June, Samsung may unveil a "watch-phone", a smartwatch that can make or receive calls without having to be tethered to a mobile phone.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/23/samsung-mobilephone-idUSL1N0O911Q20140523

Microsoft files for smartwatch patent
money.cnn.com/2014/05/06/technology/innovation/microsoft-smartwatch/

I dont see anything related to NEM, not even a word on the watch. Did you get some picture from somewhere?

It's for inspiration. A future project. The pic is from the appleinsider article.

[jkoil]

Nice to see the enthusiasm in this thread! Now back to coding   ...

was that your monthly 5 min break wasted? :L bet your wishin you got a coffee instead of posting a comment!

oh no ... now there is yet another stone for "the impatients"

[SomethingElse]

i dont mean to burst everyones bubble, but i really dont like misunderstandings.
The ones here that are doing the marketing, please give me an honest answer to this:
 
What are you marketing ?
What are you marketing it as?

Nem is nothing but an awesome idea so far, at a pre-alpha stage.
How are you marketing something that has no features so far, no code published, no client and no launch?

i'm honestly curious to hear what people are saying to others in regard to a product that has not launched yet,
this is not a trolling attempt, so please lets all have a serious discussion.

In basically ALL businesses marketing is huge.  Many companies will spend more money on marketing than product development.  Let me say that again, it is more profitable to market a product than it is to actually develop a product.  That seems silly, right?  Wouldn't the best product win?  No, the product that wins is the product that is the best in the eyes of the public, not that actual best product.  The way to win the public is marketing.  

So....... NEM doesn't have a product right now?  Why then do marketing?  Let us look at a few examples.  There is CounterParty, Ethereum, NXT, and Bitshares.  These are all next generation platforms and are possible competitors to NEM.  Three of them have real products and have been developed by people who have real high tech skills. These are NXT, CounterParty, and Bitshares.  Actually, each of these products is very slick, even more so than bitcoin.  But....... none of them are actually worth much.  Why?  Because the people that made them are developers who don't know shit about anything else.  They are really smart people that just because they know one thing, think that they can make it.  They are sadly mistaken.  Being able to write code, doesn't make a product good.  Ethereum on the other hand doesn't even have a working product.  It is really just an idea that aims high and a ton of marketing.  It has professionals on board.  Not just professional coders, but professionals from every aspect and end of a business.  Yes, they are running it like a business, not some dudes writing code on their home computer at night and typing messages on a forum.  Writing code on your computer at night and typing messages on a forum just isn't enough to make it in today's world.  A product needs a lot more support than that.  

So Ethereum has no real working product yet, just an ideal and intense marketing by pros.  Can it be considered successful?  More successful than NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty?  They are at least up and running with nice products.  If Ethereum were to have its fundraiser tomorrow, sheep from all over the crypto community would line up to throw money at them.  The Ethereum non-product is already worth way more than NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty real products combined, and when it does come to market on day 1, it will have a market share that reflects this.  100% for sure.  

If NEM wants to be a real force.  It has a choice.  It can choose to be like Ethereum and bring on some pros, or at least some semi-pros into the team for marketing, finance, legal, creative, admin, strategist and so on.  Simply writing a good code won't do it.  

I really would hope that NEM would find people for the development team that could be advisers for each of these areas, and do it now.   Again, I would argue that in a market like crypto that is filled with pump and dump that professional or at least semi-professional marketers would be important.  A semi-pro can give NEM a huge advantage over helping boost NEM over other products that are being developed by great programmers that know little of marketing (I am talking about you NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty).  

NEM doesn't even have a logo yet.  I know the development team wants to have a product first, but really that isn't how successful stories work.  Ethereum is being made by pros.  They had a slick webpage, logo, t-shirts, and smooth public speakers long before it has ever released a product.  The guys at Ethereum know exactly what they are doing.  It is counter-intuitive.  It doesn't seem like a slick logo and webpage are worth more than a slick product, but yes, they really are.  Again, it is not the best product that wins, but the product that is best in the eyes of the public.  The distinction shouldn't be that big of a deal, but it is indeed a huge deal.  

Making money is not about having a good product.  Making money is about making people "think" you have a good product.  Con-men have known this for ages and are quite successful because of it.  All big companies know this (these are in someways con-men too).  It seems like very few people in this forum really internalize this.  The fact that people even have to ask, "why market?" shows just how clueless people are.  I have no doubt that Okaynow is a very intelligent person and this is not a rant against Okaynow and in certain areas of discourse would school people with his/her knowledge.  This is more of a statement in general that very few people on these forums no shit about actually developing a successful product.  

[TaunSew]

 Ethereum is another copywrighting coin (with probable poor distribution) and we all know how they end up.  Mastercoin and Maidsafe are older examples.  Copywrighting coins all technically belong to the "Max Keiser" / "Max Coin" community, strong presence on YouTube and on copywrighting websites but the average person doesn't have time these days to watch boring long videos or read 2000 word articles about some coin.  

I think the conceptual error in marketing is that people will market their coin / product as the "second coming", when they should be marketing a relevant utility to the consumer.  People threw money at Dogecoin because it was a cute puppy meemee, it brought them that sort of utility.  People threw money at Litecoin, only thinking that it would make them a millionaire during the BTC boom in November.

[Neophox]

I should add some information about the bounty. Professional investor handout should look like this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mnuhs0aklr1l6wl/Blackcoin%20Meet%20Black%20April%2020%202014.pdf

That is for blackcoin twenty pages + something. We don't need to go that long 4 pages + 1 cover is fine but should include ALL important information in NEM summary. Community distribution should be mentioned. 1 person/ 1 share is kind of unique and a very board base of stakeholders should be mentioned too. Read the letter to waiting list. Some ideas there should be included: vision, commitment, people etc. doesn't need to go into too much technical details except mentioning new innovations. In short, read all information in NEM summary and transform it into a coherent story with an attractive design.

It is not an easy job so bounty could be up to 1btc (or 1 dev. stake if choose that way). I probably need to see a draft before agree on a person taking the bounty, or at least what kind of works have been done by the bounty hunter. Feel free to chat with me if you want more story.  

Ideally we'd have an official logo to be able to create something which looks professional. There's little than can be done from a design veiwpoint when there is not logo or brand to play around with. Aside from a handful of nicely-made infographics and charts, it's not going to be great to look at.

Is this fair to say? Agree/disagree?

Getting this investor handout designed is going to do one of two things regarding that.  It's either going to rally the community around a particular brand and logo, or it's going to cause whatever the designer's pick to become entrenched as the de facto brand.  Either way, the process of getting a brand is moved forward.

[TaunSew]

has any one ever looked into what crypto records nem has broken?

like most coin announcement thread views for an un-launched coin?

most coin announcement thread views for an un-launched coin that hasnt release any software?

most coin announcement thread replies for a coin that has not launched?

most coin announcement thread replies for a coin that has not released any software?

most participants in an ipo like call for participation?

most devs working on an unlaunched coin?

highest marketcap of an unreleased coin (i think we would only need to beat maidsafe here.. could be wrong)

any other records im forgetting that could apply?

Definitely worth noting but should it be emphasized?

[TaunSew]

has any one ever looked into what crypto records nem has broken?

like most coin announcement thread views for an un-launched coin?

most coin announcement thread views for an un-launched coin that hasnt release any software?

most coin announcement thread replies for a coin that has not launched?

most coin announcement thread replies for a coin that has not released any software?

most participants in an ipo like call for participation?

most devs working on an unlaunched coin?

highest marketcap of an unreleased coin (i think we would only need to beat maidsafe here.. could be wrong)

any other records im forgetting that could apply?

Definitely worth noting but should it be emphasized?

why not? if people here of this unknown coin thats broken all these records.. theyl be thinkin, damn.. i better check this out...

Indirectly, and changing the topic, this led me to think of an "achievement" list within the NEM client - equivalent to the achievements you see on Xbox Live and in PC / Console Gaming.

  Achievements is essentially an addicting mini-game in recreational video gaming, which encourages the user to devote more hours to the game in question to unlock these achievements (I don't know how to better explain this idea but anyone who plays Xbox Live or Steam PC Games would know what I am talking about).

  You could effectively create a wide range of NEM achievements, some of them fairly easy to achieve and others more difficult or borderline impossible.  

[coloredcoin]

the token is distributed to holders?

[TaunSew]

@taunsew.

thats a great idea! get higher statuses for most transactions, highest amount in wallet, most number of assets owned ect.. but not sure if that would be a good idea at the same time.. its putting people in direct competition over how much money they have ect.. perhaps if there are in game apps. have scores for games and stuff add up to ranking for your address... that sort of thing thats not related to money

It could be anything as long as it's somehow recognizable by the client.  For instance, there could be an achievement called: "Luck of the Irish", if you are befriended / messaged / receive NEM from someone in Ireland (hypothetical example).   One could hypothetically be quite imaginative with the sort of achievements there could be and achievements can be an addicting mini-game.


 

[mrvegad]

i dont mean to burst everyones bubble, but i really dont like misunderstandings.
The ones here that are doing the marketing, please give me an honest answer to this:
 
What are you marketing ?
What are you marketing it as?

Nem is nothing but an awesome idea so far, at a pre-alpha stage.
How are you marketing something that has no features so far, no code published, no client and no launch?

i'm honestly curious to hear what people are saying to others in regard to a product that has not launched yet,
this is not a trolling attempt, so please lets all have a serious discussion.

In basically ALL businesses marketing is huge.  Many companies will spend more money on marketing than product development.  Let me say that again, it is more profitable to market a product than it is to actually develop a product.  That seems silly, right?  Wouldn't the best product win?  No, the product that wins is the product that is the best in the eyes of the public, not that actual best product.  The way to win the public is marketing.  

So....... NEM doesn't have a product right now?  Why then do marketing?  Let us look at a few examples.  There is CounterParty, Ethereum, NXT, and Bitshares.  These are all next generation platforms and are possible competitors to NEM.  Three of them have real products and have been developed by people who have real high tech skills. These are NXT, CounterParty, and Bitshares.  Actually, each of these products is very slick, even more so than bitcoin.  But....... none of them are actually worth much.  Why?  Because the people that made them are developers who don't know shit about anything else.  They are really smart people that just because they know one thing, think that they can make it.  They are sadly mistaken.  Being able to write code, doesn't make a product good.  Ethereum on the other hand doesn't even have a working product.  It is really just an idea that aims high and a ton of marketing.  It has professionals on board.  Not just professional coders, but professionals from every aspect and end of a business.  Yes, they are running it like a business, not some dudes writing code on their home computer at night and typing messages on a forum.  Writing code on your computer at night and typing messages on a forum just isn't enough to make it in today's world.  A product needs a lot more support than that.  

So Ethereum has no real working product yet, just an ideal and intense marketing by pros.  Can it be considered successful?  More successful than NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty?  They are at least up and running with nice products.  If Ethereum were to have its fundraiser tomorrow, sheep from all over the crypto community would line up to throw money at them.  The Ethereum non-product is already worth way more than NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty real products combined, and when it does come to market on day 1, it will have a market share that reflects this.  100% for sure.  

If NEM wants to be a real force.  It has a choice.  It can choose to be like Ethereum and bring on some pros, or at least some semi-pros into the team for marketing, finance, legal, creative, admin, strategist and so on.  Simply writing a good code won't do it.  

I really would hope that NEM would find people for the development team that could be advisers for each of these areas, and do it now.   Again, I would argue that in a market like crypto that is filled with pump and dump that professional or at least semi-professional marketers would be important.  A semi-pro can give NEM a huge advantage over helping boost NEM over other products that are being developed by great programmers that know little of marketing (I am talking about you NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty).  

NEM doesn't even have a logo yet.  I know the development team wants to have a product first, but really that isn't how successful stories work.  Ethereum is being made by pros.  They had a slick webpage, logo, t-shirts, and smooth public speakers long before it has ever released a product.  The guys at Ethereum know exactly what they are doing.  It is counter-intuitive.  It doesn't seem like a slick logo and webpage are worth more than a slick product, but yes, they really are.  Again, it is not the best product that wins, but the product that is best in the eyes of the public.  The distinction shouldn't be that big of a deal, but it is indeed a huge deal.  

Making money is not about having a good product.  Making money is about making people "think" you have a good product.  Con-men have known this for ages and are quite successful because of it.  All big companies know this (these are in someways con-men too).  It seems like very few people in this forum really internalize this.  The fact that people even have to ask, "why market?" shows just how clueless people are.  I have no doubt that Okaynow is a very intelligent person and this is not a rant against Okaynow and in certain areas of discourse would school people with his/her knowledge.  This is more of a statement in general that very few people on these forums no shit about actually developing a successful product.  

How many eyes of the public who don't follow crypto's know about Ethereum?

NEM isn't about making money, it's trying to be a movement.

Most people on this forum only give shit about putting money in their pockets.

"Impress me by what you do, not what you say"

[Jaguar0625]

has any one ever looked into what crypto records nem has broken?

like most coin announcement thread views for an un-launched coin?

most coin announcement thread views for an un-launched coin that hasnt release any software?

most coin announcement thread replies for a coin that has not launched?

most coin announcement thread replies for a coin that has not released any software?

most participants in an ipo like call for participation?

most devs working on an unlaunched coin?

highest marketcap of an unreleased coin (i think we would only need to beat maidsafe here.. could be wrong)

any other records im forgetting that could apply?

Definitely worth noting but should it be emphasized?

why not? if people here of this unknown coin thats broken all these records.. theyl be thinkin, damn.. i better check this out...

Indirectly, and changing the topic, this led me to think of an "achievement" list within the NEM client - equivalent to the achievements you see on Xbox Live and in PC / Console Gaming.

  Achievements is essentially an addicting mini-game in recreational video gaming, which encourages the user to devote more hours to the game in question to unlock these achievements (I don't know how to better explain this idea but anyone who plays Xbox Live or Steam PC Games would know what I am talking about).

  You could effectively create a wide range of NEM achievements, some of them fairly easy to achieve and others more difficult or borderline impossible.  

Interesting idea to use gamification to encourage usage of NEM. In general, I'm a big believer of it. Learning websites like Khan Academy have used it really successfully. I hadn't given it much thought in this context of crypto-currency, but it is a very interesting idea.

Of course, gamification could be taken too far, like http://www.ribbonhero.com/ .

[makoto1337]

@xtester

that sounds like a good plan but ethereum hasnt released any software and they dont plan to for a long while.. heck they havnt even done there ipo and they are plastered all over tv and news articles doing documentaries... why should we hide ourselves when other projects who are further behind in development are doing the complete opposite? if we get ourselves known now.. it may attract new tallented devs and new people to the community.. just because the main devs do not want to show their faces it doesnt mean other people in the nem community cannot put them selves forward as a representative to spread the word about the new economic movement that is NEM. we have nothing to hide and everything to show, i dont see why we should wait? ethereum has put them selves at the forefront of public knowledge with less than what we have! i think we should get ourselves out there!

Good points, I agree with you. Indeed, I think it would be a very important matter to market ourselves in the more technical circles as ethereum does and kindle some intelligent discussions as to what other creative ways we could use NEM platform. The only problem is at the moment we still lack the knowledge of our most important component, the technical part with all its details. This is the part on which ethereum builds their discussion although the development part is not ready yet. We could do the same and much more, but we should first find out how our platform works, what our biggest advantages are, what our disadvantages are(if we have any) and then we can bring up some real stuff not just guesses.

Another part we could discuss as soon as we've set some principles, core values and goals is our movement of which the technical innovation is only one part. What we want to do, how we want to do it, etc.

In the meantime if you manage to make Max Keiser mention us on twitter or RT that would be great! Am totally for that.

valid point about the lack of knowledge of the technical side of things..

il wait until a base price has been set by AE and we are on coinmarketcap... it will be much much easier to get recognition then...

what sort of shape are the nem websites in? what sites do we have? is there any way to get an official number of how many people we have working on core dev of the software? how many on marketing? graphics? or even just a total number of people who are actively developing Nem? is there any way of finding out how many unique hits this thread has gotten? how many weeks now has nem been in actual development, not including planning stage? how long was it in planning(everything prior to the first lines of code) pre/post announcement?

how many lines of code have been written so far? can i get a somewhat detailed idea of whats been happening behind the scenes for testing? number of servers being used? number of tests being ran per dat/week? how long the tests are running with out crashing/major bugs? how successful these tests are? number of people doing the actual testing? any idea what month alpha will be in? the more i know about all this the better the chance i can get max to say something.. i need more information than what i have at hand. it mostly rests on getting a high place on coinmarketcap with out software though... top 20-15 would be sufficient i suspect.. but 15-10 would be much much better!


@UP/makato

will we know more about the technical side of nem after alpha? i dont mean what will be built on top of nem.. but what COULD be built on top of nem? what does nem have the potential to have built on top of it? would it be as versatile as nxt? will we have an idea of what can do beyond what nxt can do? im only talking about potential.. not guaranteed things..?

I personally think we should wait until releasing technical details until right before launch. Then it will be harder for people to copy us.

[SomethingElse]

i dont mean to burst everyones bubble, but i really dont like misunderstandings.
The ones here that are doing the marketing, please give me an honest answer to this:
 
What are you marketing ?
What are you marketing it as?

Nem is nothing but an awesome idea so far, at a pre-alpha stage.
How are you marketing something that has no features so far, no code published, no client and no launch?

i'm honestly curious to hear what people are saying to others in regard to a product that has not launched yet,
this is not a trolling attempt, so please lets all have a serious discussion.

In basically ALL businesses marketing is huge.  Many companies will spend more money on marketing than product development.  Let me say that again, it is more profitable to market a product than it is to actually develop a product.  That seems silly, right?  Wouldn't the best product win?  No, the product that wins is the product that is the best in the eyes of the public, not that actual best product.  The way to win the public is marketing.  

So....... NEM doesn't have a product right now?  Why then do marketing?  Let us look at a few examples.  There is CounterParty, Ethereum, NXT, and Bitshares.  These are all next generation platforms and are possible competitors to NEM.  Three of them have real products and have been developed by people who have real high tech skills. These are NXT, CounterParty, and Bitshares.  Actually, each of these products is very slick, even more so than bitcoin.  But....... none of them are actually worth much.  Why?  Because the people that made them are developers who don't know shit about anything else.  They are really smart people that just because they know one thing, think that they can make it.  They are sadly mistaken.  Being able to write code, doesn't make a product good.  Ethereum on the other hand doesn't even have a working product.  It is really just an idea that aims high and a ton of marketing.  It has professionals on board.  Not just professional coders, but professionals from every aspect and end of a business.  Yes, they are running it like a business, not some dudes writing code on their home computer at night and typing messages on a forum.  Writing code on your computer at night and typing messages on a forum just isn't enough to make it in today's world.  A product needs a lot more support than that.  

So Ethereum has no real working product yet, just an ideal and intense marketing by pros.  Can it be considered successful?  More successful than NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty?  They are at least up and running with nice products.  If Ethereum were to have its fundraiser tomorrow, sheep from all over the crypto community would line up to throw money at them.  The Ethereum non-product is already worth way more than NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty real products combined, and when it does come to market on day 1, it will have a market share that reflects this.  100% for sure.  

If NEM wants to be a real force.  It has a choice.  It can choose to be like Ethereum and bring on some pros, or at least some semi-pros into the team for marketing, finance, legal, creative, admin, strategist and so on.  Simply writing a good code won't do it.  

I really would hope that NEM would find people for the development team that could be advisers for each of these areas, and do it now.   Again, I would argue that in a market like crypto that is filled with pump and dump that professional or at least semi-professional marketers would be important.  A semi-pro can give NEM a huge advantage over helping boost NEM over other products that are being developed by great programmers that know little of marketing (I am talking about you NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty).  

NEM doesn't even have a logo yet.  I know the development team wants to have a product first, but really that isn't how successful stories work.  Ethereum is being made by pros.  They had a slick webpage, logo, t-shirts, and smooth public speakers long before it has ever released a product.  The guys at Ethereum know exactly what they are doing.  It is counter-intuitive.  It doesn't seem like a slick logo and webpage are worth more than a slick product, but yes, they really are.  Again, it is not the best product that wins, but the product that is best in the eyes of the public.  The distinction shouldn't be that big of a deal, but it is indeed a huge deal.  

Making money is not about having a good product.  Making money is about making people "think" you have a good product.  Con-men have known this for ages and are quite successful because of it.  All big companies know this (these are in someways con-men too).  It seems like very few people in this forum really internalize this.  The fact that people even have to ask, "why market?" shows just how clueless people are.  I have no doubt that Okaynow is a very intelligent person and this is not a rant against Okaynow and in certain areas of discourse would school people with his/her knowledge.  This is more of a statement in general that very few people on these forums no shit about actually developing a successful product.  

How many eyes of the public who don't follow crypto's know about Ethereum?

NEM isn't about making money, it's trying to be a movement.

Most people on this forum only give shit about putting money in their pockets.

"Impress me by what you do, not what you say"

Money, movement, awareness in the eyes of the public, and yes what a product does are all related.  

I don't care primarily about the money either.  I really want this to be successful as a movement and believe in the change that a crypto like NEM can bring to the world.  I feel like this greater crypto community desperately needs it if we will succeed in our goals.  

I was just using money as a measure of success.  This is commonly done and in fact the most common factor for considering success.  That is why people go to coinmarketcap daily.  And bitcoin fanatics are depressed by small drops or elated by big gains.  

One of the major points of my post was that while the philosophy of "Impress me by what you do, not what you say" should be the way things are done and intuitively seems right, in the real world of products and services proves to be a model that fails time and time again.  It is a sad part of the world we live in and I hate it.  A person can take the high road and not play the game of marketing and politics and try to let their product speak for itself, but that surely will lead to a failure.  Again, ALL successful products are heavily marketed.  No successful products that have changed the world that are not heavily marketed.  This is a sad reality.  Ignoring does not change it.  

Impress me by what you do, not what you say is a great philosophy for dealing with very close and personal relationships.  I live by it.  And I wish it could be applied to the greater world.  


 

[makoto1337]

@xtester

that sounds like a good plan but ethereum hasnt released any software and they dont plan to for a long while.. heck they havnt even done there ipo and they are plastered all over tv and news articles doing documentaries... why should we hide ourselves when other projects who are further behind in development are doing the complete opposite? if we get ourselves known now.. it may attract new tallented devs and new people to the community.. just because the main devs do not want to show their faces it doesnt mean other people in the nem community cannot put them selves forward as a representative to spread the word about the new economic movement that is NEM. we have nothing to hide and everything to show, i dont see why we should wait? ethereum has put them selves at the forefront of public knowledge with less than what we have! i think we should get ourselves out there!

Good points, I agree with you. Indeed, I think it would be a very important matter to market ourselves in the more technical circles as ethereum does and kindle some intelligent discussions as to what other creative ways we could use NEM platform. The only problem is at the moment we still lack the knowledge of our most important component, the technical part with all its details. This is the part on which ethereum builds their discussion although the development part is not ready yet. We could do the same and much more, but we should first find out how our platform works, what our biggest advantages are, what our disadvantages are(if we have any) and then we can bring up some real stuff not just guesses.

Another part we could discuss as soon as we've set some principles, core values and goals is our movement of which the technical innovation is only one part. What we want to do, how we want to do it, etc.

In the meantime if you manage to make Max Keiser mention us on twitter or RT that would be great! Am totally for that.

I agree xtester, Nem does seem like it could have lots of market potential in tech circles. Ethereum is very solid in its plan though, while Nem is open to many different ideas and interpretation. I like Nem for that.

How is ethereum solid at all? Turing complete would be a bug, not a feature.

[xtester]

i dont mean to burst everyones bubble, but i really dont like misunderstandings.
The ones here that are doing the marketing, please give me an honest answer to this:
 
What are you marketing ?
What are you marketing it as?

Nem is nothing but an awesome idea so far, at a pre-alpha stage.
How are you marketing something that has no features so far, no code published, no client and no launch?

i'm honestly curious to hear what people are saying to others in regard to a product that has not launched yet,
this is not a trolling attempt, so please lets all have a serious discussion.

In basically ALL businesses marketing is huge.  Many companies will spend more money on marketing than product development.  Let me say that again, it is more profitable to market a product than it is to actually develop a product.  That seems silly, right?  Wouldn't the best product win?  No, the product that wins is the product that is the best in the eyes of the public, not that actual best product.  The way to win the public is marketing.  

So....... NEM doesn't have a product right now?  Why then do marketing?  Let us look at a few examples.  There is CounterParty, Ethereum, NXT, and Bitshares.  These are all next generation platforms and are possible competitors to NEM.  Three of them have real products and have been developed by people who have real high tech skills. These are NXT, CounterParty, and Bitshares.  Actually, each of these products is very slick, even more so than bitcoin.  But....... none of them are actually worth much.  Why?  Because the people that made them are developers who don't know shit about anything else.  They are really smart people that just because they know one thing, think that they can make it.  They are sadly mistaken.  Being able to write code, doesn't make a product good.  Ethereum on the other hand doesn't even have a working product.  It is really just an idea that aims high and a ton of marketing.  It has professionals on board.  Not just professional coders, but professionals from every aspect and end of a business.  Yes, they are running it like a business, not some dudes writing code on their home computer at night and typing messages on a forum.  Writing code on your computer at night and typing messages on a forum just isn't enough to make it in today's world.  A product needs a lot more support than that.  

So Ethereum has no real working product yet, just an ideal and intense marketing by pros.  Can it be considered successful?  More successful than NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty?  They are at least up and running with nice products.  If Ethereum were to have its fundraiser tomorrow, sheep from all over the crypto community would line up to throw money at them.  The Ethereum non-product is already worth way more than NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty real products combined, and when it does come to market on day 1, it will have a market share that reflects this.  100% for sure.  

If NEM wants to be a real force.  It has a choice.  It can choose to be like Ethereum and bring on some pros, or at least some semi-pros into the team for marketing, finance, legal, creative, admin, strategist and so on.  Simply writing a good code won't do it.  

I really would hope that NEM would find people for the development team that could be advisers for each of these areas, and do it now.   Again, I would argue that in a market like crypto that is filled with pump and dump that professional or at least semi-professional marketers would be important.  A semi-pro can give NEM a huge advantage over helping boost NEM over other products that are being developed by great programmers that know little of marketing (I am talking about you NXT, Bitshares, and CounterParty).  

NEM doesn't even have a logo yet.  I know the development team wants to have a product first, but really that isn't how successful stories work.  Ethereum is being made by pros.  They had a slick webpage, logo, t-shirts, and smooth public speakers long before it has ever released a product.  The guys at Ethereum know exactly what they are doing.  It is counter-intuitive.  It doesn't seem like a slick logo and webpage are worth more than a slick product, but yes, they really are.  Again, it is not the best product that wins, but the product that is best in the eyes of the public.  The distinction shouldn't be that big of a deal, but it is indeed a huge deal.  

Making money is not about having a good product.  Making money is about making people "think" you have a good product.  Con-men have known this for ages and are quite successful because of it.  All big companies know this (these are in someways con-men too).  It seems like very few people in this forum really internalize this.  The fact that people even have to ask, "why market?" shows just how clueless people are.  I have no doubt that Okaynow is a very intelligent person and this is not a rant against Okaynow and in certain areas of discourse would school people with his/her knowledge.  This is more of a statement in general that very few people on these forums no shit about actually developing a successful product.  

It's sad, but most of what you said may in fact be true. Incidentally, this is also a story of how the world got it all wrong.

Most companies and people choose to invest more money into marketing because of two things: 1) it is very hard to create a product that brings value and is 10x better than the next competitor and obviously a better choice; 2) because the majority of people are incapable of doing 1) and they understand how easily manipulated the masses can be. So when money is your only or even primary raison d'être, it is actually most effective to barely focus on the product and spend all your energy on devising better ways to manipulate people(like say Coca Cola does).

However, this is not how things should be, nor how we want to do them(I hope). In fact, this is the reason we are starting a new economy movement and not a pump and dump coin, the reason we want to change the status quo and fight for a better future by being the change we want to see. This is what sets us apart from maybe any other coin out there. We are here to create value, to change the world, be it even in a small way, and yes, to make some money as a result of all that.

So our primary focus should really be on creating a better product and not only making people "think" we have a better product. As far as I can tell we are pretty on track with that. Now this being said, I also think there is such a thing as good marketing.

Marketing has somehow destabilized our economy since we have a free market, a fundamentally uncultivated discerning capacity and a somewhat easily manipulated human nature, hence a great incentive exists in the market to fool people. On the other hand there exists a belief, especially between technical people that beside building things, there's no need for anything else: "if we build it they will come". However this belief may be rooted in the fact that the more technical people tend to generally have a lack of understanding in how human nature works. So, as you might expect, a lot of technically interesting and promising projects die because of such beliefs.

Now the third and most desirable option would be to focus most on creating the best product(thanks to our dev team we are already doing that) and equally focus on bringing that very good product to the people in the most effective manner(without bullshitting them). If we have a real quality product the only thing we'll need is a chance to attract some attention through good and targeted marketing.

In addition to what I suggested in the marketing proposal brought before, I think there are 2 things which will bring an immediate and huge amount of attention and cash flow into NEM: 1) Launch and get a place into top 10 -15 on coinmarketcap and 2) do everything necessary to bring NEM on one of the premiere and most popular exchanges.¹

Besides that, one of the most important things we could do for NEM in the long term is find one or more persons which should be "the faces" of NEM at conferences, interviews, and do what Vitalik Butering does for Etherium, capturing the imagination of technical people and intelligentsia by kindling intelligent discussions and intellectual experiments regarding how NEM works, what we can and could do with it, what problems of previous coins we solve, etc. This is the highest point we need to target, which if we do correctly, will overflow and bring news about NEM into all other sub-layers of society.


References
¹ I think although counter-intuitive, this may be one of the most effective ways to bring volume into our currency, go into the spotlight and market ourselves at the beginning. Mintpal looks better than most exchanges and sucks less. But more importantly it is the premier exchange for altcoins, has good customer service, has not been compromised or hacked until now, people have traded already thousands of btc/day on it and have btc at disposal there. Blackcoin reached its peak on and probably because of mintpal, same with darkcoin. If we would get on mintpal the result would certainly worth it. It would probably be the easiest way to make btc flow into NEM. From experience I can tell the reputation of the exchange on which the coin is listed is an important predictor of limits in coins volume, meaning people will no way trade 100btc in one trade on bittrex or poloniex but would comfortably do so on mintpal. This is why coins like balckcoin and darkcoin have made it their mission to reach mintapl. The fact is that when almost any coin is created, it generally gets first listed on bittrex and poloniex. After a couple of days, if the coin is interesting enough and it attracts more than 100btc daily volume, the coin is secretly evaluated by mintpal to be added there. Some are added only when they reach 500btc/day volume, some are added only through voting and even paying for voting. Some are never added because it's probably too hard.(NXT is a good example.) The was a time when cryptsy was the premier altcoin exchange, but that time has passed and cryptsy seem to be heading the wrong way.

When a coin grows in price and volume, we generally tend to attribute all the credit to interesting things like innovation, marketing and other stuff, missing the point that the market is a bit more complex and often counter-intuitive in many ways, and the majority of price increase and volume may in fact come from manipulation which is strictly coordinated to accompany innovation and good news(see bitcoin and dogecoin manipulation examples). In the same way, I think we tend to overemphasis the short term effect of innovation, marketing and other stuff over getting listed on a very popular and relatively trustworthy exchange. But looking at the facts and experience, the latter in close coordination with the former may be responsible for the most part. It may even be so due to initiation of some complex chain of events that is utterly invisible at this point. Think 80/20 principle but instead of 20 put 1 or 2 factors.

[mrvegad]

@SomethingElse

Your points are valid and well thought out but I would still like to see NEM wait with advertising until the open alpha is over. This will give people the chance to try it out as well as give them information to help fight the FUD and misconceptions. I have been involved in projects before that in the beginning showed great promise but after a while they turned into the opposite of what it was meant to be, this was after I had put in extraordinarily amount of time and energy. So maybe I am being overly cautious.

[utopianfuture]

I have a few comments about marketing issue.

1. Do not forget our root in equality, solidarity and grassroots contribution.

2. The core team is not community's centralized marketing powerhouse. We are unlikely to do much marketing except some very important ones at our discreation. In general don't expect the core team being  your representative.

3. The majority of NEM belongs to stakeholders and community. If you have a brilliant marketing idea, persuade the community. Given how NEM allocation is very equal, you don't need to persuade any whale at all but the agreement of the community.

4. Let's practice (3) with the idea of hiring a professional marketing manager. If you think it is the best for NEM, persuade the community and raise a fund to do so. If the communty thinks that is a good idea and spend 10% of their stake to support it you will have no problem of hiring a world class marketer.

[Raxe.io]

I have a few comments about marketing issue.

1. Do not forget our root in equality, solidarity and grassroots contribution.

2. The core team is not community's centralized marketing powerhouse. We are unlikely to do much marketing except some very important ones at our discreation. In general don't expect the core team being  your representative.

3. The majority of NEM belongs to stakeholders and community. If you have a brilliant marketing idea, persuade the community. Given how NEM allocation is very equal, you don't need to persuade any whale at all but the agreement of the community.

4. Let's practice (3) with the idea of hiring a professional marketing manager. If you think it is the best for NEM, persuade the community and raise a fund to do so. If the communty thinks that is a good idea and spend 10% of their stake to support it you will have no problem of hiring a world class marketer.

Please get back to us via pm utopianfuture it is quite urgent. I agree that having a marketing manager is extremely important for the development of the coin. With the stakes we could get a PR firm involved.

[makoto1337]

i dont mean to burst everyones bubble, but i really dont like misunderstandings.
The ones here that are doing the marketing, please give me an honest answer to this:
 
What are you marketing ?
What are you marketing it as?

Nem is nothing but an awesome idea so far, at a pre-alpha stage.
How are you marketing something that has no features so far, no code published, no client and no launch?

i'm honestly curious to hear what people are saying to others in regard to a product that has not launched yet,
this is not a trolling attempt, so please lets all have a serious discussion.

I am curious also.

Before a product is a community. Before a community is an idea. There is a plenty of thing to talk if someone is willing to

Too much talking going on here...blablabla....blablabla
Shall I tell you why I think this coin is gonna fail just like Nxt?
It is too complicated and too technical for normal people to understand what you guys are talking about.

Pwahahahaha. NXT is a failure to you? Being #4 in marketcap is failure?

NEM is being made with ease-of-use and functionality in mind.

4th place is the 3rd loser.