[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[shojayxt]

Cryptopia ETH Markets are closing, please cancel all open ETH orders.

Full Statement:
https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Forum/Thread/675

Well written statement outlining their valid reasons for delisting.  It won't have any effect on Etherium but I completely understand the reasoning behind it.  Any fork or rollback invalidates decentralization which has been a cornerstone of Ethereum since it's inception.

[1714894886]

1714894886

[1714894886]

1714894886

[1714894886]

1714894886

[1714894886]

1714894886

[killerjoegreece]

Cryptopia ETH Markets are closing, please cancel all open ETH orders.

Full Statement:
https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Forum/Thread/675

Well written statement outlining their valid reasons for delisting.  It won't have any effect on Etherium but I completely understand the reasoning behind it.  Any fork or rollback invalidates decentralization which has been a cornerstone of Ethereum since it's inception.

cryptopia is not in the wrong here in my opinion.

[roselee]

Cryptopia ETH Markets are closing, please cancel all open ETH orders.

Full Statement:
https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Forum/Thread/675

Well written statement outlining their valid reasons for delisting.  It won't have any effect on Etherium but I completely understand the reasoning behind it.  Any fork or rollback invalidates decentralization which has been a cornerstone of Ethereum since it's inception.

cryptopia is not in the wrong here in my opinion.

in mine too
i read vitaliks blog
he told of a list of bugs that need to be solved with a hardfork but he does not say roll back for dao only
a bailout for dao investors with a rollback is very very bad
then crypto is not better then the banksters and goverments

did someone rollback mtgox ? or bter ? or what ever hack there was ?

[notbatman]

This is beta and there's no way to test-net it. The DOA is essentially the devs baby and Romanian piece of shit scammers don't get to keep $55 million worth of ETH that doesn't belong to them.

[Justicemaxx]

    Catch the correct view with bitsmedia Russia, where I also defend the light side of the force:
   "I read and was so surprised that I decided to register and add my 5 cents. In DAO almost not invest, only a few coins put in to see how tokens are awarded, so the personal interest do not have. However, reading the comments that "attacking" the genius and his need to release with three million Ethereum, I am amazed. Even more amazed by the opinion that if you make softporn or hardwork and return those coins then lost confidence in the coin, price will crash and all is lost." My opinion is opposite - if the creators of the coin will not do anything to recover stolen, then how can there be confidence in the coin? The creators of coin to take care of her and fix errors as well as possible consequences, caused by the error code. This is done all over the world in all fields. Do you think that the hacker finding the vulnerability, earned all the money he could obtain, exploiting her? It is not, and to believe so is impossible, because it is a dead end. Think, if you think so, then you cannot look for those who steal money from credit cards, those who spread viruses and botnets, those who Rob banks. They all found holes in the system, the rules created by other people and use them for personal gain. They always find flaws in systems and rules, and always will be. All programs, smart contracts, etc are created by people, they will ALWAYS be holes. No need to talk about some ideal system, they say it is a problem of the DAO that it was a hole. Holes will always and everywhere, we live in an imperfect world. Perfect code? Ask any programmer can write something more complicated calculator without a single bug, and if he has at least a few years of experience, the answer will be negative. I know whereof I speak.
So if you found a hole and took the money not belonging to you, you're a thief. Don't you agree? Then do it and then tell the court that you are not a scammer. Read the definition of the word.
   If you believe that this all only applies to ethics and cryptocurrencies it doesn't have to touch - then look at the history of cryptocurrency. Them code again is created by people, and again there were, are and will be bugs. Why do developers fix them? Not to steal your money. Have to do that? Of course it is necessary. What to do if you steal still have time? You need to try to reduce the damage to return the money, as usual in this world. Why cryptocurrency needs to obey other laws? They are part of our life, our imperfect world, and so they need to employ the same centuries-old universal laws. Otherwise, time and again, hackers will with impunity, steal your money, just undermining the credibility of the cryptocurrency in General.
The cries that Vitalik will be able to do anything with the coin nonsense. About it decide Pula exchange. Some pools have voted and the results show that the majority of people are friends with the logic, consider that stolen need to be returned. This is not the collapse of the coin. This is a normal management. Decentralization does not mean that everything should be left to chance, management still should be, and it has long is, in fact, the developers manage the coin, releasing new versions, introducing new features, fixing bugs.
   Read the comments that blame Vitalik, they say he's their money, and once the hacker was able to get the money they. Code people write. Bugs will always be. This is normal (unfortunately). And the one who exploits vulnerability should not take the money because he was a thief, and he took not his own. You cannot declare your taking using the vulnerability, a hole, a bug; the world is an ordinary crime.
   I don't understand why there are people who think that the thief must pay what he stole, and as a lesson to strengthen control over the code. Yes usesite control as you want, there will still be bugs to find and to steal, anyway. The banking system is proof, and there write code intelligent people."

[Kelarid]

Cryptopia ETH Markets are closing, please cancel all open ETH orders.

Full Statement:
https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Forum/Thread/675

Well written statement outlining their valid reasons for delisting.  It won't have any effect on Etherium but I completely understand the reasoning behind it.  Any fork or rollback invalidates decentralization which has been a cornerstone of Ethereum since it's inception.

cryptopia is not in the wrong here in my opinion.

Many people will not trade cryptopia if it thinks it is lawful to steal other people's money due to wrong implementation of a contract.

[Mrpumperitis]

    Catch the correct view with bitsmedia Russia, where I also defend the light side of the force:
   "I read and was so surprised that I decided to register and add my 5 cents. In DAO almost not invest, only a few coins put in to see how tokens are awarded, so the personal interest do not have. However, reading the comments that "attacking" the genius and his need to release with three million Ethereum, I am amazed. Even more amazed by the opinion that if you make softporn or hardwork and return those coins then lost confidence in the coin, price will crash and all is lost." My opinion is opposite - if the creators of the coin will not do anything to recover stolen, then how can there be confidence in the coin? The creators of coin to take care of her and fix errors as well as possible consequences, caused by the error code. This is done all over the world in all fields. Do you think that the hacker finding the vulnerability, earned all the money he could obtain, exploiting her? It is not, and to believe so is impossible, because it is a dead end. Think, if you think so, then you cannot look for those who steal money from credit cards, those who spread viruses and botnets, those who Rob banks. They all found holes in the system, the rules created by other people and use them for personal gain. They always find flaws in systems and rules, and always will be. All programs, smart contracts, etc are created by people, they will ALWAYS be holes. No need to talk about some ideal system, they say it is a problem of the DAO that it was a hole. Holes will always and everywhere, we live in an imperfect world. Perfect code? Ask any programmer can write something more complicated calculator without a single bug, and if he has at least a few years of experience, the answer will be negative. I know whereof I speak.
So if you found a hole and took the money not belonging to you, you're a thief. Don't you agree? Then do it and then tell the court that you are not a scammer. Read the definition of the word.
   If you believe that this all only applies to ethics and cryptocurrencies it doesn't have to touch - then look at the history of cryptocurrency. Them code again is created by people, and again there were, are and will be bugs. Why do developers fix them? Not to steal your money. Have to do that? Of course it is necessary. What to do if you steal still have time? You need to try to reduce the damage to return the money, as usual in this world. Why cryptocurrency needs to obey other laws? They are part of our life, our imperfect world, and so they need to employ the same centuries-old universal laws. Otherwise, time and again, hackers will with impunity, steal your money, just undermining the credibility of the cryptocurrency in General.
The cries that Vitalik will be able to do anything with the coin nonsense. About it decide Pula exchange. Some pools have voted and the results show that the majority of people are friends with the logic, consider that stolen need to be returned. This is not the collapse of the coin. This is a normal management. Decentralization does not mean that everything should be left to chance, management still should be, and it has long is, in fact, the developers manage the coin, releasing new versions, introducing new features, fixing bugs.
   Read the comments that blame Vitalik, they say he's their money, and once the hacker was able to get the money they. Code people write. Bugs will always be. This is normal (unfortunately). And the one who exploits vulnerability should not take the money because he was a thief, and he took not his own. You cannot declare your taking using the vulnerability, a hole, a bug; the world is an ordinary crime.
   I don't understand why there are people who think that the thief must pay what he stole, and as a lesson to strengthen control over the code. Yes usesite control as you want, there will still be bugs to find and to steal, anyway. The banking system is proof, and there write code intelligent people."

Excellent post.
I am also considering legal action, if the hacker comes forward and reveals himself.

[alienesb]

   Catch the correct view with bitsmedia Russia, where I also defend the light side of the force:
   "I read and was so surprised that I decided to register and add my 5 cents. In DAO almost not invest, only a few coins put in to see how tokens are awarded, so the personal interest do not have. However, reading the comments that "attacking" the genius and his need to release with three million Ethereum, I am amazed. Even more amazed by the opinion that if you make softporn or hardwork and return those coins then lost confidence in the coin, price will crash and all is lost." My opinion is opposite - if the creators of the coin will not do anything to recover stolen, then how can there be confidence in the coin? The creators of coin to take care of her and fix errors as well as possible consequences, caused by the error code. This is done all over the world in all fields. Do you think that the hacker finding the vulnerability, earned all the money he could obtain, exploiting her? It is not, and to believe so is impossible, because it is a dead end. Think, if you think so, then you cannot look for those who steal money from credit cards, those who spread viruses and botnets, those who Rob banks. They all found holes in the system, the rules created by other people and use them for personal gain. They always find flaws in systems and rules, and always will be. All programs, smart contracts, etc are created by people, they will ALWAYS be holes. No need to talk about some ideal system, they say it is a problem of the DAO that it was a hole. Holes will always and everywhere, we live in an imperfect world. Perfect code? Ask any programmer can write something more complicated calculator without a single bug, and if he has at least a few years of experience, the answer will be negative. I know whereof I speak.
So if you found a hole and took the money not belonging to you, you're a thief. Don't you agree? Then do it and then tell the court that you are not a scammer. Read the definition of the word.
   If you believe that this all only applies to ethics and cryptocurrencies it doesn't have to touch - then look at the history of cryptocurrency. Them code again is created by people, and again there were, are and will be bugs. Why do developers fix them? Not to steal your money. Have to do that? Of course it is necessary. What to do if you steal still have time? You need to try to reduce the damage to return the money, as usual in this world. Why cryptocurrency needs to obey other laws? They are part of our life, our imperfect world, and so they need to employ the same centuries-old universal laws. Otherwise, time and again, hackers will with impunity, steal your money, just undermining the credibility of the cryptocurrency in General.
The cries that Vitalik will be able to do anything with the coin nonsense. About it decide Pula exchange. Some pools have voted and the results show that the majority of people are friends with the logic, consider that stolen need to be returned. This is not the collapse of the coin. This is a normal management. Decentralization does not mean that everything should be left to chance, management still should be, and it has long is, in fact, the developers manage the coin, releasing new versions, introducing new features, fixing bugs.
   Read the comments that blame Vitalik, they say he's their money, and once the hacker was able to get the money they. Code people write. Bugs will always be. This is normal (unfortunately). And the one who exploits vulnerability should not take the money because he was a thief, and he took not his own. You cannot declare your taking using the vulnerability, a hole, a bug; the world is an ordinary crime.
   I don't understand why there are people who think that the thief must pay what he stole, and as a lesson to strengthen control over the code. Yes usesite control as you want, there will still be bugs to find and to steal, anyway. The banking system is proof, and there write code intelligent people."

Excellent post.
I am also considering legal action, if the hacker comes forward and reveals himself.

So that Romanian guy is not the actual culprit?

[Mrpumperitis]

   Catch the correct view with bitsmedia Russia, where I also defend the light side of the force:
   "I read and was so surprised that I decided to register and add my 5 cents. In DAO almost not invest, only a few coins put in to see how tokens are awarded, so the personal interest do not have. However, reading the comments that "attacking" the genius and his need to release with three million Ethereum, I am amazed. Even more amazed by the opinion that if you make softporn or hardwork and return those coins then lost confidence in the coin, price will crash and all is lost." My opinion is opposite - if the creators of the coin will not do anything to recover stolen, then how can there be confidence in the coin? The creators of coin to take care of her and fix errors as well as possible consequences, caused by the error code. This is done all over the world in all fields. Do you think that the hacker finding the vulnerability, earned all the money he could obtain, exploiting her? It is not, and to believe so is impossible, because it is a dead end. Think, if you think so, then you cannot look for those who steal money from credit cards, those who spread viruses and botnets, those who Rob banks. They all found holes in the system, the rules created by other people and use them for personal gain. They always find flaws in systems and rules, and always will be. All programs, smart contracts, etc are created by people, they will ALWAYS be holes. No need to talk about some ideal system, they say it is a problem of the DAO that it was a hole. Holes will always and everywhere, we live in an imperfect world. Perfect code? Ask any programmer can write something more complicated calculator without a single bug, and if he has at least a few years of experience, the answer will be negative. I know whereof I speak.
So if you found a hole and took the money not belonging to you, you're a thief. Don't you agree? Then do it and then tell the court that you are not a scammer. Read the definition of the word.
   If you believe that this all only applies to ethics and cryptocurrencies it doesn't have to touch - then look at the history of cryptocurrency. Them code again is created by people, and again there were, are and will be bugs. Why do developers fix them? Not to steal your money. Have to do that? Of course it is necessary. What to do if you steal still have time? You need to try to reduce the damage to return the money, as usual in this world. Why cryptocurrency needs to obey other laws? They are part of our life, our imperfect world, and so they need to employ the same centuries-old universal laws. Otherwise, time and again, hackers will with impunity, steal your money, just undermining the credibility of the cryptocurrency in General.
The cries that Vitalik will be able to do anything with the coin nonsense. About it decide Pula exchange. Some pools have voted and the results show that the majority of people are friends with the logic, consider that stolen need to be returned. This is not the collapse of the coin. This is a normal management. Decentralization does not mean that everything should be left to chance, management still should be, and it has long is, in fact, the developers manage the coin, releasing new versions, introducing new features, fixing bugs.
   Read the comments that blame Vitalik, they say he's their money, and once the hacker was able to get the money they. Code people write. Bugs will always be. This is normal (unfortunately). And the one who exploits vulnerability should not take the money because he was a thief, and he took not his own. You cannot declare your taking using the vulnerability, a hole, a bug; the world is an ordinary crime.
   I don't understand why there are people who think that the thief must pay what he stole, and as a lesson to strengthen control over the code. Yes usesite control as you want, there will still be bugs to find and to steal, anyway. The banking system is proof, and there write code intelligent people."

Excellent post.
I am also considering legal action, if the hacker comes forward and reveals himself.

So that Romanian guy is not the actual culprit?

He maybe, but its not 100% yet.
The hacker has said they would go to court, if they do then the identity will be revealed...if that happens then i will make my case against the hacker. Im sure there will be many more doing the same.

[Seggbek Ur]

Pleasem hard fork it. thanks!

[AlexGR]

Even more amazed by the opinion that if you make softporn or hardwork and return those coins then lost confidence in the coin, price will crash and all is lost.

Is that google translate or something?

[google98]

could somebody real briefly answer plz:

In case of SOFTfork: DAO is frozen, no ETH will be refunded?
In case of HARDfork: DAO is frozen, withdrawn and sent to ALL DAO holders? 1:100? Or just to the ones who were stolen their ETH?

Is this correct?!

[Bit_Happy]

Denial is strong among the ETH?
Ethereum: Welcome to the End?
Too many big mistakes have been made, imo. If the core features are good enough, then someone will make a copy with a clean reputation.
It's over.

[TripleHeXXX]

Cryptopia ETH Markets are closing, please cancel all open ETH orders.

Full Statement:
https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Forum/Thread/675

Well written statement outlining their valid reasons for delisting.  It won't have any effect on Etherium but I completely understand the reasoning behind it.  Any fork or rollback invalidates decentralization which has been a cornerstone of Ethereum since it's inception.

cryptopia is not in the wrong here in my opinion.

Many people will not trade cryptopia if it thinks it is lawful to steal other people's money due to wrong implementation of a contract.

Have you read the DAO terms? They explicitly state that the DAO's code is the law, anything enabled by the code is legitimate. There can be no wrong implementation of a contract under the DAO's terms. Or do you just not make informed decisions about things you invest it? If so, I have a GREAT investment opportunity for you...

[tmfp]

Have you read the DAO terms? They explicitly state that the DAO's code is the law, anything enabled by the code is legitimate. There can be no wrong implementation of a contract under the DAO's terms. Or do you just not make informed decisions about things you invest it? If so, I have a GREAT investment opportunity for you...

Have you read the White Paper?

A word of caution, at the outset: the legal status of
DAOs remains the subject of active and vigorous debate
and discussion.
Not everyone shares the same definition.
Some have said that they are autonomous code and can
operate independently of legal systems; others have said
that they must be owned or operate by humans or hu-
man created entities. There will be many uses cases, and
the DAO code will develop over time.
Ultimately, how a DAO functions and its legal status will depend on many
factors, including how DAO code is used, where it is used,
and who uses it. This paper does not speculate about
the legal status of DAOs worldwide. This paper is not
intended to oer legal advice or conclusions. Anyone who
uses DAO code will do so at their own risk.

[Bit_Happy]

Have you read the DAO terms? They explicitly state that the DAO's code is the law, anything enabled by the code is legitimate. There can be no wrong implementation of a contract under the DAO's terms. Or do you just not make informed decisions about things you invest it? If so, I have a GREAT investment opportunity for you...

Have you read the White Paper?

A word of caution, at the outset: the legal status of
DAOs remains the subject of active and vigorous debate
and discussion.
Not everyone shares the same definition.
Some have said that they are autonomous code and can
operate independently of legal systems; others have said
that they must be owned or operate by humans or hu-
man created entities. There will be many uses cases, and
the DAO code will develop over time.
Ultimately, how a DAO functions and its legal status will depend on many
factors, including how DAO code is used, where it is used,
and who uses it. This paper does not speculate about
the legal status of DAOs worldwide. This paper is not
intended to oer legal advice or conclusions. Anyone who
uses DAO code will do so at their own risk.

Anyone who
uses DAO code will do so at their own risk.

But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman DAO
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow  

[TripleHeXXX]

Have you read the DAO terms? They explicitly state that the DAO's code is the law, anything enabled by the code is legitimate. There can be no wrong implementation of a contract under the DAO's terms. Or do you just not make informed decisions about things you invest it? If so, I have a GREAT investment opportunity for you...

Have you read the White Paper?

A word of caution, at the outset: the legal status of
DAOs remains the subject of active and vigorous debate
and discussion.
Not everyone shares the same definition.
Some have said that they are autonomous code and can
operate independently of legal systems; others have said
that they must be owned or operate by humans or hu-
man created entities. There will be many uses cases, and
the DAO code will develop over time.
Ultimately, how a DAO functions and its legal status will depend on many
factors, including how DAO code is used, where it is used,
and who uses it. This paper does not speculate about
the legal status of DAOs worldwide. This paper is not
intended to oer legal advice or conclusions. Anyone who
uses DAO code will do so at their own risk.

Looks like it makes much the same warnings as the terms do, use at your own risk.

[noobtrader]

 .... if you think so, then you cannot look for those who steal money from credit cards, those who spread viruses and botnets, those who Rob banks. They all found holes in the system, the rules created by other people and use them for personal gain. They always find flaws in systems and rules, and always will be. All programs, smart contracts, etc are created by people, they will ALWAYS be holes. No need to talk about some ideal system, they say it is a problem of the DAO that it was a hole. Holes will always and everywhere, we live in an imperfect world. Perfect code? Ask any programmer can write something more complicated calculator without a single bug, and if he has at least a few years of experience, the answer will be negative. I know whereof I speak.
So if you found a hole and took the money not belonging to you, you're a thief. Don't you agree? Then do it and then tell the court that you are not a scammer. Read the definition of the word...

+1

Agreed 100%,  they were hacker exploiting vulnerabilities. 

[TripleHeXXX]

 .... if you think so, then you cannot look for those who steal money from credit cards, those who spread viruses and botnets, those who Rob banks. They all found holes in the system, the rules created by other people and use them for personal gain. They always find flaws in systems and rules, and always will be. All programs, smart contracts, etc are created by people, they will ALWAYS be holes. No need to talk about some ideal system, they say it is a problem of the DAO that it was a hole. Holes will always and everywhere, we live in an imperfect world. Perfect code? Ask any programmer can write something more complicated calculator without a single bug, and if he has at least a few years of experience, the answer will be negative. I know whereof I speak.
So if you found a hole and took the money not belonging to you, you're a thief. Don't you agree? Then do it and then tell the court that you are not a scammer. Read the definition of the word...

+1

Agreed 100%,  they were hacker exploiting vulnerabilities. 

Show my one bank or credit card company or payment processor, just one, anywhere in the world, that has terms that state ANYTHING their services allow you to do is legitimate usage and warn that your funds might be stolen and you should use their bank/credit card/payment processor/whatever at your own risk.

It's not a fair comparison. You would never use their services if that were the case. So why are you making this batshit insane exception for the DAO?

[Mrpumperitis]

Looks like a majority want a SF...im all for it and so are many that i know personally 

http://ethpool.org/stats/votes