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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 2004316 times)
becoin
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July 23, 2016, 08:28:03 PM
 #9301

I am aware of all the discussions and have my own view, I was just interested in which elements you took into account for your view e.g technical, chain functionality, currency, markets price and interest, centralize vs decentralize, trust/loss of trust, security, distribution etc. Also, what do you define as a financial disaster.
Isn't it obvious? Financial disaster happens if there is a loss of confidence. Crypto currencies are especially vulnerable. A small group of people decided they need hf to bail out failed project. Now it is obvious this small group can be forced to make the next fork.
cohnhead
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July 23, 2016, 08:50:03 PM
 #9302

I am aware of all the discussions and have my own view, I was just interested in which elements you took into account for your view e.g technical, chain functionality, currency, markets price and interest, centralize vs decentralize, trust/loss of trust, security, distribution etc. Also, what do you define as a financial disaster.
Isn't it obvious? Financial disaster happens if there is a loss of confidence. Crypto currencies are especially vulnerable. A small group of people decided they need hf to bail out failed project. Now it is obvious this small group can be forced to make the next fork.
so far there seems to be no loss of confidence with eth.
and as I just posted...didn't miners decide?
IncludeBeer
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July 23, 2016, 08:58:00 PM
 #9303

I am aware of all the discussions and have my own view, I was just interested in which elements you took into account for your view e.g technical, chain functionality, currency, markets price and interest, centralize vs decentralize, trust/loss of trust, security, distribution etc. Also, what do you define as a financial disaster.
Isn't it obvious? Financial disaster happens if there is a loss of confidence. Crypto currencies are especially vulnerable. A small group of people decided they need hf to bail out failed project. Now it is obvious this small group can be forced to make the next fork.

Meh, sorry I just don't buy it.  We're still seeing articles of industry leads continually touting Ethereum tech.  Yes, there are the few who write about how the HF is detrimental (trust issues and all that).  But with the latest news from Msft, not to mention the price drastically pumping after the HF...I mean....I simply don't buy in to the idea that Ethereum is in the middle of a disaster or is dying or however one might want to tag it. It seems the masses value Eth more now than before the HF.

Grow the Dividend Snek! (pm me if you have questions)
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frostminer
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July 23, 2016, 09:20:32 PM
 #9304

I am aware of all the discussions and have my own view, I was just interested in which elements you took into account for your view e.g technical, chain functionality, currency, markets price and interest, centralize vs decentralize, trust/loss of trust, security, distribution etc. Also, what do you define as a financial disaster.
Isn't it obvious? Financial disaster happens if there is a loss of confidence. Crypto currencies are especially vulnerable. A small group of people decided they need hf to bail out failed project. Now it is obvious this small group can be forced to make the next fork.
so far there seems to be no loss of confidence with eth.
and as I just posted...didn't miners decide?

It was a landslide win ...

Just ignore the emotrolls. As one of them already admitted, he bummed out and sold everything before the fork.
Instead of facing the facts, he now tries to convince the world otherwise...


(ps, read his posts before the fork ... kinda ironic and hilarious)

tempus
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July 23, 2016, 09:32:31 PM
 #9305

I am aware of all the discussions and have my own view, I was just interested in which elements you took into account for your view e.g technical, chain functionality, currency, markets price and interest, centralize vs decentralize, trust/loss of trust, security, distribution etc. Also, what do you define as a financial disaster.
Isn't it obvious? Financial disaster happens if there is a loss of confidence. Crypto currencies are especially vulnerable. A small group of people decided they need hf to bail out failed project. Now it is obvious this small group can be forced to make the next fork.

Meh, sorry I just don't buy it.  We're still seeing articles of industry leads continually touting Ethereum tech.  Yes, there are the few who write about how the HF is detrimental (trust issues and all that).  But with the latest news from Msft, not to mention the price drastically pumping after the HF...I mean....I simply don't buy in to the idea that Ethereum is in the middle of a disaster or is dying or however one might want to tag it. It seems the masses value Eth more now than before the HF.


The price is no indicator about quality. It's a result of the wish to make money and Investors/Speculators/Traders will invest as long as they believe that the ETH-price gives chances for that. They (we) also would buy into scams if there would be the believe that enough others will buy even more and drive the price - before the race would start to go out sooner than others.

Not saying Ethereum is a scam, just want to say: The price is not about quality and btw.: It seems manipulated and backed.

More important is one question in my opinion:

If we think about Ethereum out of the perspective of potential Customers who want to use it for Smart Contracts, for their real business:
Would they trust the tech? Is it really possible to feel safe with it? If Ethereum-Developers don't seem to be able to develop something like TheDAO secure, how will it be possible for anybody to feel safe with it? And I doubt that a HF gave more trust in general.

And in the end it will need real use, or the price will go down. It's not possible to build Ethereum and than a project that is funded with expensive Ether to fund Ethereum-projects like Slock.it etc., if nothing leads beyond Ethereum to real business and money outside of Ethereum's eco-system, which is based on speculation, Magic won't happen.

And that circles back to the question: Will there be enough trust in Ethereum that real-business-Customers will use it?

Because it's possible that everybody who is interested in technologies with a focus on Smart Contracts watches Ethereum with high interest - but not to use it. I believe, the highest risk for Ethereum will be competition, that there could be better systems in future, most likely not that complex but more secure, maybe specialized for different purposes and so on. Ethereum seems like a project that wants to be "all-in-one" but all is nothing if there is a lack of stability and security and trust.

I'm not saying that it's that way. I'm not sure. But before all it's safe to say: The price is no indicator and "masses" are not always right. "They all" (let's say "too many") bought into TheDAO and it was a total lack of quality. And the hype was irrational but maybe intended, while it would have been even more irrational if it would have increased in price after launch - some people believe it would.

I personally never understood the high price and I still don't understand why it's still high and I expect it to go down. Because: All value (price) is based on speculation and conclusions are based on the price ---> that is a circle that can't work out.
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July 23, 2016, 10:06:59 PM
 #9306

Don't forget the extreme supply and hyper inflation killing any chance of further increases

frostminer
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July 23, 2016, 10:41:09 PM
 #9307

Don't forget the extreme supply and hyper inflation killing any chance of further increases

Blalblabla bla bla blabla bla.

Done yet?

Need more cheese to the whine, or whats your deal?

IncludeBeer
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July 23, 2016, 11:39:59 PM
 #9308

Don't forget the extreme supply and hyper inflation killing any chance of further increases

Blalblabla bla bla blabla bla.

Done yet?

Need more cheese to the whine, or whats your deal?

These kinds of posts offer absolutely 0 value to the discussion.  It's the same as when fudders shout "shitcoin" or some such.  Try explaining what you think in a more adult fashion.

Grow the Dividend Snek! (pm me if you have questions)
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bitpop
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July 23, 2016, 11:41:49 PM
 #9309

ETC already at $30 million market cap

becoin
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July 23, 2016, 11:50:04 PM
 #9310

I personally never understood the high price and I still don't understand why it's still high and I expect it to go down.
Some representatives of the banking oligopoly have invested in ethereum. They will try to play same price control game between bitcoin and ethereum as they do between gold and silver. The dao fiasco was quite painful for them but they have a lot of fiat and will not give up easily.
CoinCidental
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July 24, 2016, 01:48:05 AM
 #9311

Maybe a nice Idea, but again it's an investment scheme in it due to the limited supply of Etheres.

That are all nice functions, but I don't see, why in order to use them one has to buy into a highly speculative currency. In fact smart property, smart contracts, decentralized exchange, etc. Would all work better if issuers and and users of these wouldn't need to buy into a currency that is intended to get more and more expensive in order to use it.

I see really nice developments in crypto and it's cool that so many obviously smart people get involved in it.

But it's utterly disappointing, that everything build is at is core build only to make the early adopters rich. (Same thing with: Mastercoin, ProtoShares, Nxt, etc)

What all this people could accomplish if they would help develop Bitcoin?  Sad

Everyone wants to be early adopters lol.... Crypto millionaires..
cohnhead
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July 24, 2016, 01:48:52 AM
 #9312

I personally never understood the high price and I still don't understand why it's still high and I expect it to go down.
Some representatives of the banking oligopoly have invested in ethereum. They will try to play same price control game between bitcoin and ethereum as they do between gold and silver. The dao fiasco was quite painful for them but they have a lot of fiat and will not give up easily.
Quote
Some representatives of the banking oligopoly have invested in ethereum.
TRUE (for sure)

Quote
They will try to play same price control game between bitcoin and ethereum as they do between gold and silver.
UNTRUE (kind of retarded)

Quote
The dao fiasco was quite painful for them but they have a lot of fiat and will not give up easily.
TRUE (sounds ok to me)
tempus
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July 24, 2016, 03:21:59 AM
 #9313

I personally never understood the high price and I still don't understand why it's still high and I expect it to go down.
Some representatives of the banking oligopoly have invested in ethereum. They will try to play same price control game between bitcoin and ethereum as they do between gold and silver. The dao fiasco was quite painful for them but they have a lot of fiat and will not give up easily.

Interesting theory. But let's try it with some logic here.

1. Professionals of the banking-system invested in Ethereum?

It's possible. And I don't have much doubt that there are not only Crypto-people on Polo but also Professionals from stock-markets or whatever. At least it's obvious that there is some bigger money and it's also obvious that most of it is traded in Ethereum - nothing comes close regarding ETH's volume.

2. Would they back the price in risk-times, when fundamentals bring a lot of uncertainty in the market plus the possibility that Bitcoin could shoot up plus a chart that already looked unhealthy when DAO launched and now even more - double-top?

Maybe I'm wrong and there is not that kind of backing but exactly that is my impression - that "helping hands" show up as buy-support when real problems showing up, to bring certainty into the market.

If that should be true I wouldn't expect it from professional traders if they don't have at least Insider-Infos - very close connections to those who really have the power, VB and his guys.

Thing is: If there is money backing and price-manipulation my conclusion would be:

a) Those who have the control over the code also have the money to have some control about the price
b) If it should be about banking-profis, I would assume that they have access to Insider-Infos or wouldn't take such a risk with much money.

a) and b) wouldn't differ much.

3. Would professionals have bought into the DAO?   

That's something I would say: Never. Why? Because I'm not a professional. Not even close. But for me it was safe that TheDAO would turn out as a bad investment (and I warned, not just saying it now after all what went wrong), and I did not think much about potential security risks, just a very simple economical conclusion:

a) It was funded with ETH so the DAO-price would be totally connected to and fluctuate with the ETH-price.
b) The ETH-price already didn't look too good. It was about to build a double-top.
c) Most important: There never was a reason why the DAO should be worth more than exactly the ETH it was funded with. It would have been totally irrational to expect that the DAO-price would go above it's funding.
d) Also important: Every time theDAO would have invested like it was planned, let's say in slock.it first, it would have "lost" some of those funds. That would have lowered it's marketcap, whil......
e) ...all investments would have been longterm and with all risks involved. If return with profit it would have taken some time.
f) It was a social experiment and all the nice words could not cover that there would have been a lot of fights and a lot of manipulative attempts to get some of the funds.

With other words: In my opinion it was a bad investment, even without the security issues. Most likely it would have turned out as a risk for the Ethereum-price which of course would have impact on the DAO-price again.

I really doubt that professionals with the focus on profit would have bought into it. It's much more likely that it was funded by people close to the team and in the team - and it was a hype etc. And now there was a bail-out and everybody should have the question if there also would have been a bail out of a smart contract if it wouldn't have been about $150 Mio but about $15 Mio and without Investors close to the team. Somebody said that the Bail-out is/was similar to a scenario of a HF in Bitcoin because Factom or Counterparty would be in trouble.

No kidding: Just the existence of TheDAO with such a funding is a miracle for me. Since theDAO I have doubts about the Ethereum team and how professional they are. I really would like to know the intentions behind, because I don't understand it. All scenarios I believe to be realistic are red flags.



My theory is: The price itself is a risk for Ethereum or the interests of those who hold a lot of it, and that there is fear because of the risk it could come down. Because I'm sure that there is a lot of manipulation going on to back the price, but not just to make short-term-profit. Maybe more to get on a high level over the time. I can't prove that and of course, I could be wrong. But if I'm right, those who do that must have very close connections to those who really know what's going on because they do what's going on (Developers) - or it's the team itself.

All other scenarios would be a huge risk for those who play with a lot of money in this market. And another thing is interesting: There are hard times for Ethereum but Coinbase adds it with a very good timing. Does it solve any real problems. No. But could it help the price. Sure.


If it's about Ethereum and it's situation with focus on the market-situation, my advise is to focus on TheDAO. Because if something is rushed out in a way like that, it's either just totally unprofessional, which would tell us a lot about the team which is basically from the Ethereum-team, or there was pressure. And with pressure I mean some kind of intense intention. And in most of all cases the simplest scenario is true: Money was needed. Or a way out was needed. Because theDAO also would have made possible to get ETH into it, and to sell DAO-tokens for BTC --> That's like selling ETH without selling it directly. And right after launch it was below the ETH-price pretty fast. So the question is why. I can't answer it, but why should normal Investors sell it below it's price when there is nothing wrong? It was two weeks before that "Hack" happened.


***********
Maybe all this is too much of a conspiracy theory, but if we think about guys from a "banking oligopoly" it would be even more some kind of conspiracy theory. Because professionals wouldn't bet. They would try to control it. And they couldn't control their investments without at least close connections and insider-infos. Under the line I don't believe that.

There is most likely an "Ethereum-oligopoly". Very rich Ethereum-Investors with close connections to the team or it's the team or both. But the problem in all scenarios is that the market becomes a high risk, not just because of the DAO-disaster. Take a look at the chart and think about which professional would back the price after a double top. Even if all would be good, the market would be a high risk and even more because the possibility of a sharp rise of Bitcoin is a risk for all Alts, Ethereum included.

And is it possible that this all is totally wrong? Theoretical yes. It could be something like a "natural market", without a rich group manipulating it. But does the daily volume fit to the about 5k daily active users on Poloniex? I doubt that. And would there have been a DAO-bailout for normal Investors and would a natural funding brought about $150 Mio? Even more doubts about that.

Mrpumperitis
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July 24, 2016, 04:40:54 AM
 #9314

https://poloniex.com/exchange#eth_etc  Shocked lol

https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_etc

Right trolls time to put your money where your mouths are...go support your coin  Wink

but be warned......
All users who had an Ethereum balance at the moment of the fork now have a matching balance of ETC
 Tongue


Bitpoop put up a few buy walls...ill sell to ya  Tongue
lol

Technically Bitcoin is a fork and Bitcoin Cash is the original blockchain.When the hard fork occurred, people had access to the same amount of coins on Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash.- NIST
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July 24, 2016, 04:43:24 AM
 #9315

lol race is on to dump etc to 0 sat LOL

Technically Bitcoin is a fork and Bitcoin Cash is the original blockchain.When the hard fork occurred, people had access to the same amount of coins on Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash.- NIST
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July 24, 2016, 04:52:06 AM
 #9316

Polo , thanks for the free $$$  Kiss  great unexpected bonus

Technically Bitcoin is a fork and Bitcoin Cash is the original blockchain.When the hard fork occurred, people had access to the same amount of coins on Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash.- NIST
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July 24, 2016, 05:10:47 AM
 #9317

Just read this comment,lol

 The only people that have ETC are the ETH fork believers isnt that ironic  Tongue Tongue

Technically Bitcoin is a fork and Bitcoin Cash is the original blockchain.When the hard fork occurred, people had access to the same amount of coins on Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash.- NIST
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July 24, 2016, 05:15:45 AM
 #9318

ETC already at 20¢, get in early

Mrpumperitis
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July 24, 2016, 05:17:13 AM
 #9319

https://poloniex.com/exchange#eth_etc  

https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_etc

Right trolls time to put your money where your mouths are...go support your coin  

but be warned......
All users who had an Ethereum balance at the moment of the fork now have a matching balance of ETC  

 The only people that have ETC are the ETH fork believers isnt that ironic      Tongue Tongue  w

Bitpoop put up a few buy walls...ill sell to ya  
lol

Technically Bitcoin is a fork and Bitcoin Cash is the original blockchain.When the hard fork occurred, people had access to the same amount of coins on Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash.- NIST
Mrpumperitis
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July 24, 2016, 05:17:32 AM
 #9320

ETC already at 20¢, get in early

soon it will 2c lol and when Metropolis comes out next month it will be 0c lol

Technically Bitcoin is a fork and Bitcoin Cash is the original blockchain.When the hard fork occurred, people had access to the same amount of coins on Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash.- NIST
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