[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[thevictimofuktyranny]

I was doing some thinking about "The DAO", reviewing the facts and evidence about the situation.

Just because it August and not a lot happens in August, because everyone is on their annual holidays

One of the fundamental building blocks of legal laws and ethics related to economic activity is:

All parties must act in Good Faith in economic deals

Party A - Ethereum Foundation has fulfilled this requirement, by implementing a fork, too ensure Ethereum investors in "The DAO" have recovered their stolen ETH.

Good Faith e.g. recovery of stolen funds for all Parties.

Part B

The DAO, have discharged their obligations to recover the stolen ETH and contacted relevant Parties (Ethereum Foundation) to achieve this objective.

Good Faith e.g. achieving the recovery of stolen funds and contacting relevant Parties.

-------------------------------------------------------------------The DAO mandate-------------------------------------------------------

The DAO mandate: is to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" price and to maximise the valuation of ETH price.

This gives the authority to people running "The DAO" to take actions that increase the valuation of the tokens and ETH.

Under, this latter mandate, the recovery of obsolete unsupported ETC can be done, so long as the ETC is disposed off, in order to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" and ETH.

Of course, people will disagree with this, but it is August and I'm sure everyone not on holiday is pretty bored

[DAOinvestorwantsETC]

-------------------------------------------------------------------The DAO mandate-------------------------------------------------------

The DAO mandate: is to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" price and to maximise the valuation of ETH price.

This gives the authority to people running "The DAO" to take actions that increase the valuation of the tokens and ETH.

Under, this latter mandate, the recovery of obsolete unsupported ETC can be done, so long as the ETC is disposed off, in order to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" and ETH.

Of course, people will disagree with this, but it is August and I'm sure everyone not on holiday is pretty bored

Your point A) The DAO is to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" price and to maximise the valuation of ETH price.

Yes - But on the old chain or the new chain? Original DAO was on the Ethereum Classic chain. The DAO had the function of rewarding investors of the DAO. Maximisation of investors funds involve redistributing ETC to all DAO holders.

Your point B) Under, this latter mandate, the recovery of obsolete unsupported ETC can be done, so long as the ETC is disposed off, in order to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" and ETH.

Disposing ETC would result in scarcity of the coins on the ETC chain. This would not maximise the valuation of ETH however maximise the valuation of ETC.

[thevictimofuktyranny]

In reply:

Disposing, does mean whatever mechanism that generates greatest maximisation of the valuation for "The DAO" and maximisation of the valuation of ETH (supported by the Ethereum Foundation).

Therefore, disposal does mean a sell off ETC can be done, if, it offers the greatest maximisation of valuation in the "The DAO" and "ETH" (supported by the Ethereum Foundation).

However, should a sell off decrease the valuation of "The DAO" and "ETH", then destroying the ETC can be the disposal method.

THE DISPOSAL METHOD, is something that has to be decided by the "The DAO" according to what is the most profit maximisation resulting for it's investors and it's undertaking to the Ethereum Foundation supported ETH.

The mandate of "The DAO" is profit maximisation of The DAO" and "ETH" (supported by the Ethereum Foundation), which would imply the "The DAO" would sell off the ETC and use the funds to maximise the value of "The DAO and "ETH" (supported by the Ethereum Foundation).

The DAO, is operating in "Good Faith" for it's investors!

It has already transfered to the new blockchain for "ETH", because "The DAO" requested the new blockchain from the "Ethereum Foundation" to recover stolen coins.

Since, "The DAO" requested the new blockchain in "Good Faith", it has fully entered into full and complete undertakings too the "Ethereum Foundation", to always operate in manner, that maximises the valuation of "ETH" that is supported by the latter Party.

[roselee]

-------------------------------------------------------------------The DAO mandate-------------------------------------------------------

The DAO mandate: is to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" price and to maximise the valuation of ETH price.

This gives the authority to people running "The DAO" to take actions that increase the valuation of the tokens and ETH.

Under, this latter mandate, the recovery of obsolete unsupported ETC can be done, so long as the ETC is disposed off, in order to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" and ETH.

Of course, people will disagree with this, but it is August and I'm sure everyone not on holiday is pretty bored

Your point A) The DAO is to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" price and to maximise the valuation of ETH price.

Yes - But on the old chain or the new chain? Original DAO was on the Ethereum Classic chain. The DAO had the function of rewarding investors of the DAO. Maximisation of investors funds involve redistributing ETC to all DAO holders.

Your point B) Under, this latter mandate, the recovery of obsolete unsupported ETC can be done, so long as the ETC is disposed off, in order to maximise the valuation of "The DAO" and ETH.

Disposing ETC would result in scarcity of the coins on the ETC chain. This would not maximise the valuation of ETH however maximise the valuation of ETC.

id guess what aplys for the black hat attack aplys for the white hat attack too?
http://www.coindesk.com/sue-dao-hacker/

[thevictimofuktyranny]

Not really,

"The DAO" are the Party, who requested the Fork in Ethereum Blockchain from the Ethereum Foundation.

They are fully and completely obligated to operate in manner that boosts the price of the forked blockchain.

Because, they are Party who needed the forked blockchain and they have to ensure that the forked blockchain is commercially successful.


 

[roselee]

Not really,

"The DAO" are the Party, who requested the Fork in Ethereum Blockchain from the Ethereum Foundation.

They are fully and completely obligated to operate in manner that boosts the price of the forked blockchain.

Because, they are Party who needed the forked blockchain and they have to ensure that the forked blockchain is commercially successful.


 

i guess the question wasnt here is the fork rightful or not .
the question is by training the dao with the white attack or black attack . was it a theft like theDao said and the foundation said too.
and if so is  it  still theft on the etc chain?

can the originaly holder of the dao demand there stolen ether back now? from the white hat attackers

that was asked .

[thevictimofuktyranny]

In Reply:

The question is irrelevant: "The DAO" mandate is maximise the valuation for it's investors and Ethereum Foundation supported "ETH".

"The DAO" mandate is profit maximisation for "ETH" investors.

"The DAO" was not established to answer questions

Should you want, that question answered set up a "smart contract"!

And, see if you get enough investors to fund a dedicated research team to answer that particular question.

[iCEBREAKER]

One of the fundamental building blocks of legal laws and ethics related to economic activity is:

All parties must act in Good Faith in economic deals

Party A - Ethereum Foundation has fulfilled this requirement, by implementing a fork, too ensure Ethereum investors in "The DAO" have recovered their stolen ETH.

Good Faith e.g. recovery of stolen funds for all Parties.

Not everyone agrees with your (externally litigious) definitions of "ethics" and "stolen."

By pretending your subjective external definitions are not controversial, you commit the logical fallacy of assuming the consequent.

If that's not bad enough, your logical fallacy is then used to justify the moral hazard of bailing out the greedy and stupid, to the detriment of the wise and smart.

Shame on you.  Shame!

[thevictimofuktyranny]

In Reply:

People always bailout out other people!

This is a fundamental certainty, which makes human existence possible.

You cannot have children or raise offspring without complete acceptance of the fundamental principle of bailing out people.

I can tell, if, you are making that argument you going to be terrible father or mother!

[tylerderden]

You're promoting a scam website

lol how do you know that? so your the judge? why not let the traders decide what it is? so much for immutability lol more like mute

im sorry but etc has SCAM written all over it.

The irony of that ETC thread is .. up there..


He really wants a immutable coin, but a very very mutable thread.

o_O

Immutability is just an excuse to pump and dump the ETC. I reckon the ETC will be dumped before the hacker's dump.

Stay, convert to ETC or BTC all bad choices ATM. You guys have the roof collapsing and don't know whre to find cover.

According to public information ETC is using the ETH blockchain up to the fork at block 1920000.

The ETH foundation has 12 million ETH too pay for future developments.

Therefore, because ETC is using the same blockchain up to the fork, it stands to reason that the ETH Foundation has 12 million ETC and it can sell these off on the exchanges to fund the development of Ethereum.

Therefore, I would like to thank ETC investors for helping to fund the future development of ETH.

I don`t understand how did you figured it out that they have 12 000 000 ETC. Can you show us the address or something? As of this moment Ethereum foundation officially have in their wallet around 1 million ETH. Explain it to us.

BTW: everybody with 2 alive brain cells can figure it out that ETC is just a quick profit and maybe in month or two ETC will be crap. It is not serious to talk about this coin in long term. But for now we don`t mind to make some free BTC on the back of stupid people who demand to be shaken.

Last time, I researched Ethereum Specs, it came up with this returned google search as:

60 million ETH sold in a crowdfunding sale.

12 million ETH, set aside for Ethereum Foundation.

18 million ETH, set aside for POW stage (current stage).

Max coins supply, before POS is 90 million ETH.

POS implementation aimed toward 0% inflation.

Lol!! Massive premine, massive amounts for the "team", programming flaws that allow theft to occur, reverse transactions following the Vericoin script of crypto suicide...oh yeah man, motherfuckers got it going on hahaaa

[roselee]

In Reply:

People always bailout out other people!

This is a fundamental certainty, which makes human existence possible.

You cannot have children or raise offspring without complete acceptance of the fundamental principle of bailing out people.

I can tell, if, you are making that argument you going to be terrible father or mother!

means ? you teach your kids that bail out is the way to go ? and to acept it ? so if your kids do a crime or fail  you bail them out ? and not let them deal with consequences ?

[iCEBREAKER]

In Reply:

People always bailout out other people!

This is a fundamental certainty, which makes human existence possible.

You cannot have children or raise offspring without complete acceptance of the fundamental principle of bailing out people.

I can tell, if, you are making that argument you going to be terrible father or mother

Children lack agency and are thus less culpable for their mistakes.  And they still need consequences, or they turn into spoiled brats.

DAO investors and the TBTF firms Jim Rogers speaks about are not children.  Please don't infantalize them in order to justify indulging their mistakes with bailouts and do-overs.

Please STFU with your "fundamental certainties" because I'm fundamentally certain you have no clue about how smart contract are supposed to work.

Here you go little baby, I'll be a nurturing parent and utilize this teachable moment to bail you out of your ignorance, but then it's time for your nap.   

A smart contract enforces a commitment without resorting to the threat of external litigation [2].

Nick Szabo, Formalizing and Securing Relationships on Public Networks. 1997

as cited by http://elaineou.com/2016/06/19/contracts-code-and-complexity/

[tylerderden]

In Reply:

People always bailout out other people!

This is a fundamental certainty, which makes human existence possible.

You cannot have children or raise offspring without complete acceptance of the fundamental principle of bailing out people.

I can tell, if, you are making that argument you going to be terrible father or mother!

Nah man, people have not and will not always bail out people, your entire world view is fucked up here fella. And even if it were even remotely rooted in reality, this isn't about human history and nature. This is about the blockchain, you know that thing that is the basis of the world supercomputer that can't be tampered with? Well it got tampered with, and in a way that destroys credibility and turns the promises of the "eth foundation" into typical crypto self serving garbage. Which is the same self serving garbage everyone still rambling on in this thread is trying to promote. This proves that what's left as eth supporters are total naive crypto noobs. Or heavily invested shills that broke rule number one about going all in, either way there really isn't any point trying to get any of you to see the light. Your going to have to learn the hard way like the rest of us. This is crypto, your swimming with sharks and it's sink or swim. No one cares about you losing money, that's your bad decision. None of it matters, just like Vericoin reversing transactions for money because they had the same we're super cool and the blockchain is ours to play with attitude, eth too will learn that there are some rules you don't break.

[iCEBREAKER]

[worst bailout rationale ever]

means ? you teach your kids that bail out is the way to go ? and to acept it ? so if your kids do a crime or fail  you bail them out ? and not let them deal with consequences ?

My baby dint doo nuffin!!!!

He's a good boy!!!

He deserves another chance!!!

 

[tylerderden]

In Reply:

People always bailout out other people!

This is a fundamental certainty, which makes human existence possible.

You cannot have children or raise offspring without complete acceptance of the fundamental principle of bailing out people.

I can tell, if, you are making that argument you going to be terrible father or mother!

means ? you teach your kids that bail out is the way to go ? and to acept it ? so if your kids do a crime or fail  you bail them out ? and not let them deal with consequences ?

Exactly. Teaching your kids there are no do overs is going to be an important lesson. No...hey son, you don't like history...just roll it back buddy lol! The stupidity here is epic. And using kids and people's parenting ability to protect your investment? Yep you too sir are in the right place with the others who have no morals. Bravo smart guy, you are the king of debates lol!!

[thevictimofuktyranny]

In Reply:

If, what you say is true:

Why has doing bailouts been an accepted practice in every national economy on Earth for many thousands of years?

These are economy's are worth $77.609 trillion (estimation based on 2014 figures).

In fact: find me an economy on Earth, which has a publicly stated policy of never doing a bailout?

[suchmoon]

In Reply:

If, what you say is true:

Why has doing bailouts been an accepted practice in every national economy on Earth for many thousands of years?

These are economy's are worth $77.609 trillion (estimation based on 2014 figures).

In fact: find me an economy on Earth, which has a publicly stated policy of never doing a bailout?

Are you sure that's an example you want to bring up on a crypto forum? 

How about this instead:

https://www.ethereum.org/

Ethereum is a decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference.

[tylerderden]

In Reply:

If, what you say is true:

Why has doing bailouts been an accepted practice in every national economy on Earth for many thousands of years?

These are economy's are worth $77.609 trillion (estimation based on 2014 figures).

In fact: find me an economy on Earth, which has a publicly stated policy of never doing a bailout?

Hahaaaa just don't get it do ya? You want bailouts ok cool head to the bank. Expecting crypto to change the rules because people make bad decisions? Not gonna happen dude, don't believe me ok, just stay tuned. People worked hard to make bitcoin and crypto what it is today, you think you and a few other people are going to be worthy of destroying it for your mistakes or money? Goddamn LOOOOLL!! All I have to say to you.

[tylerderden]

In Reply:

If, what you say is true:

Why has doing bailouts been an accepted practice in every national economy on Earth for many thousands of years?

These are economy's are worth $77.609 trillion (estimation based on 2014 figures).

In fact: find me an economy on Earth, which has a publicly stated policy of never doing a bailout?

Are you sure that's an example you want to bring up on a crypto forum? 

How about this instead:

https://www.ethereum.org/

Ethereum is a decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference.

I think that about sums it up. Good game everybody.

[thevictimofuktyranny]

In Reply:

https://www.ethereum.org/

It does state: Ethereum can stop fraud, which it has just done with the fork of the Blockchain.

Theft is standard component in Frauds.

Nobody, has every managed to get a no-bailout policy to work, I don't think anybody is every going to get that policy to work over the long-term.

So, yeah, if you want too gamble on a no-bailout policy that nobody has ever got work, I wish you all the luck in world, because you're going to need it!

But, when it comes to my money and my time: I prefer too back new innovation and discoveries.

Some of these, may turn out be crap, but I'm certain their going to be winners amongst in that group.

Its not worth touching Old Hat policies, that nobody in human history has ever succeeded with.