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Author Topic: Bitcoin Wallet for Android  (Read 115022 times)
imsaguy
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May 24, 2012, 04:01:08 PM
 #141

It never takes me more than a few minutes to download two weeks of blockchain over the wifi.  A little longer over the air.  Samsung Galaxy 4S with all the latest firmware, etc.

That's fast.
Anyway, those "few minutes" are the raison d'être for Paytunia (or other mobile e-wallet thin clients) on Android:
when it's time to pay, the last thing people want is having to worry about a few minutes wait.
With paytunia, payment is done in a matter of seconds.

Actually, you can have the wallet set to sync any time its on the charger, which means you never wait AND you don't have to trust some third party to provide for your thin client.

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Mike Hearn
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May 24, 2012, 09:36:18 PM
 #142

The download speed can be affected by many things, such as which peers you end up connected to. Over time the reliability and speed will both improve. It's not due to lack of ideas, just lack of time.
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June 08, 2012, 10:18:48 AM
 #143

This apps works great and is really fast on my 800mhz single core samsung s5690. Absolutely loving it!

Where does the app stores the wallet?

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June 14, 2012, 04:29:52 PM
 #144

rumors are this client reduces/compresses the blockchain to a really small size. How large is the block chain and general footprint currently?

how is it done?

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June 15, 2012, 11:45:31 AM
 #145

It never takes me more than a few minutes to download two weeks of blockchain over the wifi.  A little longer over the air.  Samsung Galaxy 4S with all the latest firmware, etc.

That's fast.
Anyway, those "few minutes" are the raison d'être for Paytunia (or other mobile e-wallet thin clients) on Android:
when it's time to pay, the last thing people want is having to worry about a few minutes wait.
With paytunia, payment is done in a matter of seconds.

Actually, you can have the wallet set to sync any time its on the charger, which means you never wait AND you don't have to trust some third party to provide for your thin client.

You DO wait when you simply turn off your device (to save battery time), turn it on again later then try to make a payment.

My point is about the usability of a mobile client.
Trust is a different matter. If you do not trust anyone but yourself, well you have to trust that you will back up your keys or not lose your smartphone. You also have to trust that the wallet code itself is not malicious: unless they are programmers, people have no way of checking even an open sourced code. They have to trust someone to review the code.

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June 15, 2012, 11:48:23 AM
 #146

A smartphone that is switched off is pretty useless.

At any rate, chain sync can be made much faster still, and design work for that has begun. I don't know if somebody will implement it, but Jeff sketched out a protocol upgrade that would allow for much faster syncs to mobile clients and for pending transactions sent to you to appear right away. I don't think it'll be an issue anytime soon.
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June 15, 2012, 11:49:49 AM
 #147

Have fun burning battery while you're downloading the satoshi dice history

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June 15, 2012, 12:24:41 PM
 #148

A smartphone that is switched off is pretty useless.

Do you suggest a smarter strategy when battery low, no charger available, need the phone in a couple hours to make a transaction, don't need it that much right now ?

Of course, if I can update the chain without using up battery power, that's a major improvement.
I am still unconvinced that the user experience will ever be as smooth as compared to a thin client. When paying, people want the transaction done in seconds: every second counts.

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June 15, 2012, 02:03:34 PM
 #149

To send money you don't need the latest chain, unless you're sharing keys between wallets and might risk creating a double spend (so don't do that). In fact you don't even need internet access. You can start Bitcoin Wallet and send the raw transaction via NFC directly to another phone. Bluetooth and QRcodes are also possible.

To receive (confirmed) money, you need to sync. Downloading and parsing data is cheap - modern ARM CPUs and Android JITCs are very efficient. The biggest battery suck in smartphones is the screen by far, and after that the radio. I have Bitcoin Wallet set to sync every hour in the background. I unplugged it at 8am, and at 4pm Android Wallet has used 3% of my battery. That's without any fancy optimizations as we are currently discussing. Facebook has used 14% of the battery!

On the user experience issue in general - we're here despite that Bitcoin is currently a pain to use, because it's decentralized. To make Bitcoin happen Satoshi had to solve some extremely hard technical problems and he did a fantastic job of it. To keep Bitcoin decentralized, we must follow in his footsteps and solve the difficult problems we face. I am absolutely sure we can make the mobile wallet experience both fully decentralized  (connect to the p2p network) and every bit as slick as the most centralized payment app. It isn't easy, and we aren't quite there yet, but we aren't here to solve easy problems.
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June 15, 2012, 02:12:50 PM
 #150

Interesting, I'm not sure about the fact that it is that important to insist on mobile devices directly speaking the bitcoin protocol, but what I'm sure is that diverse opinions and point of views are a good thing Smiley

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June 15, 2012, 02:40:55 PM
 #151

To send money you don't need the latest chain, unless you're sharing keys between wallets and might risk creating a double spend (so don't do that). In fact you don't even need internet access.
Now I am puzzled !
To send money, I need at least one confirmed unspent transaction.
If my wallet was empty (I don't like carrying around a large amount on my mobile), I just sent a refill to it from my desktop client at home. Now I am on the go and I realize my smartphone was off: what do I do. I wait..

I know it's an edge case, but if we are aiming for mass market, it will happen a lot of times, enough times for many people to look for a thin client solution.

imsaguy
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June 15, 2012, 02:56:23 PM
 #152

To send money you don't need the latest chain, unless you're sharing keys between wallets and might risk creating a double spend (so don't do that). In fact you don't even need internet access.
Now I am puzzled !
To send money, I need at least one confirmed unspent transaction.
If my wallet was empty (I don't like carrying around a large amount on my mobile), I just sent a refill to it from my desktop client at home. Now I am on the go and I realize my smartphone was off: what do I do. I wait..

I know it's an edge case, but if we are aiming for mass market, it will happen a lot of times, enough times for many people to look for a thin client solution.

You can sync 8 hours of transactions in less than two minutes..  If you funded your mobile wallet that long ago, it'll be one of earlier blocks that gets synced which means you don't have to wait until its fully caught up.

If you've turned your phone off and load your email, I'm guessing you'll wait a similar amount of time for it to download 8 hours of emails/attachments fully.  Perhaps not if nobody emails you/you receive very little email.

This 'phone is off' argument is very much an edge case because I think you'll find most smartphones have a lag time when first coming back on, regardless of what you're trying to do.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
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June 15, 2012, 02:57:17 PM
 #153

rumors are this client reduces/compresses the blockchain to a really small size. How large is the block chain and general footprint currently?

how is it done?

it took about 30mins for me to download the whole blockchain.

the whole application footprint seems to be about 42mb. this is very impressive - or does the blockchain go extra?

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June 15, 2012, 05:40:49 PM
 #154

I like that this version of Bitcoin Wallet has a "disconnect" feature. However, I am noticing that this app Bitcoin Wallet is randomly starting up and connecting to nodes at apparently random intervals. I choose the "Disconnect" option and it disconnects, and then will randomly start up again at a later time. I am running this on a Droid 4 running Android 2.3.6.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
imsaguy
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June 15, 2012, 09:39:00 PM
 #155

I like that this version of Bitcoin Wallet has a "disconnect" feature. However, I am noticing that this app Bitcoin Wallet is randomly starting up and connecting to nodes at apparently random intervals. I choose the "Disconnect" option and it disconnects, and then will randomly start up again at a later time. I am running this on a Droid 4 running Android 2.3.6.

Is sync on charge turned on?

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
barbarousrelic
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June 16, 2012, 12:47:03 AM
 #156

I like that this version of Bitcoin Wallet has a "disconnect" feature. However, I am noticing that this app Bitcoin Wallet is randomly starting up and connecting to nodes at apparently random intervals. I choose the "Disconnect" option and it disconnects, and then will randomly start up again at a later time. I am running this on a Droid 4 running Android 2.3.6.

Is sync on charge turned on?
Yes, but the program still starts when I'm not charging.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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June 16, 2012, 10:10:01 AM
 #157

The sync on charge feature is undergoing some flux at the moment - Andreas is experimenting with different things. It has been changed to "sync every hour as long as you have sufficient battery power" without being relabeled, I think, so if you disable sync on charge it'll stop doing that.

As I said, for me at least, it doesn't have much battery impact. But this is on a Galaxy Nexus with ICS, so top-end hardware. It may vary for you.

I think the next step is "sync hourly if you have battery power, with an option to limit usage to wifi only". On ICS you could also have it automatically stop if you're approaching your monthly 3G data limit.

Longer term, the ability to set Bloom filters on connections and restrict address announcements means that in theory, you could maintain a set of P2P connections indefinitely with minimal battery drain, so you'd receive coins the moment they were sent to you, even if the phone was asleep. It requires some protocol upgrades and could put our supply of sockets under strain again if not implemented well, so I wouldn't hold your breath for that. A solution based on a relay server that talks C2DM to the client is a shorter term approach but it's less decentralized.
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June 17, 2012, 03:21:20 PM
 #158

I like that this version of Bitcoin Wallet has a "disconnect" feature. However, I am noticing that this app Bitcoin Wallet is randomly starting up and connecting to nodes at apparently random intervals. I choose the "Disconnect" option and it disconnects, and then will randomly start up again at a later time. I am running this on a Droid 4 running Android 2.3.6.

Is sync on charge turned on?
Yes, but the program still starts when I'm not charging.

This is not intended. Could you use the issue tracker for bugs like these?

http://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/issues/list

I'm not continually reading this forum, so I will miss some posts.

Bitcoin Wallet for Android: Your own Bitcoins, in your own pocket!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet
barbarousrelic
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June 20, 2012, 04:43:54 PM
 #159

I like that this version of Bitcoin Wallet has a "disconnect" feature. However, I am noticing that this app Bitcoin Wallet is randomly starting up and connecting to nodes at apparently random intervals. I choose the "Disconnect" option and it disconnects, and then will randomly start up again at a later time. I am running this on a Droid 4 running Android 2.3.6.

On further observation, I'm pretty sure Mike Hearn is right on this one - it appears it is connecting all on its own at half past every hour, then disconnecting.

I tried turning off 'sync on charge' and closed the program (selecting "Disconnect") but it still does it. I will try restarting my phone and see if that makes a change.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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June 22, 2012, 02:29:31 PM
 #160

I released beta 2.14 of Bitcoin Wallet:

http://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/downloads/detail?name=bitcoin-wallet-2.14.apk

I have changed some things around autosync. If you feel like it, would you update and tell me if your problem is still there?

Feedback via bugtracker is appreciated:

http://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/issues/list

Bitcoin Wallet for Android: Your own Bitcoins, in your own pocket!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet
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