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Author Topic: Bitcoin Wallet for Android  (Read 115079 times)
Andreas Schildbach
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August 12, 2013, 12:23:35 PM
 #381

Its already on 50% rollout. If you don't want to wait, you may want to install directly from
http://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/downloads/list
Ah yes, I see it in the Play Store.
But I don't get an update-option.
The app still says it's version 3.14 and that it's using bitcoinj 0.9
Did you update the About-info?

That's probably because of the staged rollout. I expect to increase percentage later today. If you don't want to wait, use the link above.

Bitcoin Wallet for Android: Your own Bitcoins, in your own pocket!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet
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August 13, 2013, 08:49:24 AM
 #382

That's probably because of the staged rollout. I expect to increase percentage later today. If you don't want to wait, use the link above.
I got the update notification today.

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jonathan
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August 13, 2013, 12:07:48 PM
 #383

Goonie, now that I have the 3.15 release on my phone, can I be sure that new transactions will not send change back to any of the old addresses that were generated by pre-3.15 versions?
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August 13, 2013, 09:17:12 PM
 #384

Goonie, now that I have the 3.15 release on my phone, can I be sure that new transactions will not send change back to any of the old addresses that were generated by pre-3.15 versions?

Yes, you're safe. Insecure addresses are excluded from any of the internal operations, except for still showing them in the address list for reference.

By the way: Even if you receive more coins to one of the insecure addresses (which you should try to avoid), a new key rotate transaction will be created for that amount.

Bitcoin Wallet for Android: Your own Bitcoins, in your own pocket!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet
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August 14, 2013, 03:21:33 PM
 #385

Continued from another thread:

  • Unlike the Android Bitcoin Wallet, Mycelium does not connect directly to several nodes in the Bitcoin network. This means less bandwidth requirement for your mobile plan, less power consumption, and immediate availability, but also means that the server side could establish IP/address relations. (which it doesn't)

Can you reason this claim? Bitcoin Wallet also is "immediate available", has a very low bandwidth requirement and power consumption. The Bitcoin P2P protocol is very efficient (its binary), so how can Mycelium get any better than that?

Any plans for private key management from you guys? That is Mycelium's best "killer feature" right now.

I would also like to know. BWA is impressive at many levels, and priv key management would make it stunning!

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August 14, 2013, 03:42:19 PM
 #386

Continued from another thread:

Can you reason this claim? Bitcoin Wallet also is "immediate available", has a very low bandwidth requirement and power consumption. The Bitcoin P2P protocol is very efficient (its binary), so how can Mycelium get any better than that?

Any plans for private key management from you guys? That is Mycelium's best "killer feature" right now.

I would also like to know. BWA is impressive at many levels, and priv key management would make it stunning!

Can you be more specific? Try to describe a usecase.

Bitcoin Wallet for Android: Your own Bitcoins, in your own pocket!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet
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August 14, 2013, 04:30:06 PM
 #387

Continued from another thread:

Can you reason this claim? Bitcoin Wallet also is "immediate available", has a very low bandwidth requirement and power consumption. The Bitcoin P2P protocol is very efficient (its binary), so how can Mycelium get any better than that?

Any plans for private key management from you guys? That is Mycelium's best "killer feature" right now.

I would also like to know. BWA is impressive at many levels, and priv key management would make it stunning!

Can you be more specific? Try to describe a usecase.

Delete private key and only keep public to monitor amount.
Import public and / or private key by scanning QR code, so you can monitor and/or spend
Keep private key on paper, and public key in wallet. To spend money, QR scan the private key, store only in memory, spend from private key, and wipe from memory, never saving to storage

These are things Mycelium does now

Another feature I would love to see is deterministic wallets. Back up only backs up the deterministic seed. Every time you spend from an address, all bitcoins are spent, with part going to the person receiving, and the change part going into a new address. The only empty address gets archived and is unused, but can be restored if needed.

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August 14, 2013, 06:25:56 PM
 #388

Can you be more specific? Try to describe a usecase.

Using a vanity address?

Generating a key offline for security reasons?

Claiming a cold storage wallet/physical coin/wallet prize?

Trying out several mobile wallet apps, using the same set of keys?

(Especially the last one; since Bitcoin Wallet for Android requires to to pay a fee every time you move your bitcoins, tiny wallets would otherwise slowly disintegrate every time to try another wallet.)
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August 15, 2013, 06:13:53 AM
 #389

Speaking of vanity addresses, I imported the private key for my nice firstbits vanity address and have been using it on my phone for a few months now. Is that vanity address now basically unusable?

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August 15, 2013, 06:27:26 AM
 #390

Speaking of vanity addresses, I imported the private key for my nice firstbits vanity address and have been using it on my phone for a few months now. Is that vanity address now basically unusable?

It depends whether UTXOs for that address were part of txs that were signed on your phone (if you are not sure then probably best to not use it any more).

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Mike Hearn
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August 15, 2013, 09:36:48 AM
 #391

If your money wasn't already stolen the vanity address is probably safe (after you upgrade). However, the address will be marked as bad and any money sent to it will be rotated automatically, so in practice you'd need to re-import it.

BWA doesn't really support doing clever things with private keys at the moment. One reason is that it's easy for users to screw up and shoot themselves in the foot. For instance the suggestion to use paper wallets further up is a BAD IDEA. People have lost money doing that. Neither BWA or MultiBit support paper wallets. Trying to make them do so by abusing backup support or using direct key import is a fast way to accidentally send your money to a change address and then destroy it, rendering the paper wallet completely empty.

We need to get users away from directly fiddling with the keychain in their wallet. Each use case can be supported individually. Paper wallets do make sense as a last-ditch backup, but they need the app to understand that a particular thing it scanned is a "paper wallet" so it can manage change appropriately, which means deterministic wallets pretty much. Overall though paper wallets are not a replacement for real backups because with time wallet metadata will become more and more important.

Synchronizing multiple wallets together across apps is another use case that's easy to screw up if you aren't a protocol expert. You can end up creating spends that don't confirm very easily if they drift out of sync at all. It's something that's worth supporting, but again, it needs a real UI/wizard in the app and the app needs to know the wallet is in use in multiple places at once, so it can do the right things at the right times.
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August 15, 2013, 01:39:44 PM
 #392

The thing is, that in order to spend from an arbitrary private key you need to know the unspent outputs sent to its address. This means scanning the block chain from the first point in time (block) where the first transaction sent funds to it. If this point is not known you will have to scan all the way from the genesis block up till now.

Clients running in SVP mode were not meant for that, and cannot do that efficiently.

Instead they create a random key and track it from the point (block) where they were created. Because the key is a random 256 bit value it is unique beyond reasonable doubt, and it is safe to assume that previous blocks did not contain transactions that send any funds to it. This way SVP clients can do with much less storage and (with bloom filters) much less bandwidth than full bitcoin nodes, while still validating soundness.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
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August 15, 2013, 10:08:26 PM
 #393

I LOVE this wallet and have been using it for a very long time.

However, I am THIS close to uninstalling it because it automatically starts up when I do not want it to.  Please add a checkbox/option so I can turn off this feature.  I want to start it up when I want to start it up.  When I plug in my phone to charge it, most of the time I do not want it to auto start.

Please, pretty please.

+1
I think there's an option for this already, I'm sure its disabled on my phone.

EDIT: 1st option in settings, "Sync on power". A disconnect on close option would be appreciated here though.
Thanks!  Sorry I missed that option.  I will give it a try.
The reason I missed that option is that it no longer exists!

I totally agree with this.  Really don't like the app running automatically at startup, with no way to disable it.  Why is this necessary?  At the very least, allow users to control this feature with a checkbox, so that it can be enabled or disabled as desired.  It's a great app, and it syncs to the Bitcoin network very quickly upon demand, so it shouldn't be necessary to have it always running.

(Edit) It's worse now!  Unfortunately, there has been an insidious new thing added to this app.  It now automatically starts up in the background, on a timer!  Every few minutes, it pops up.  That's maddening, to say the least.  This happens no matter if your phone is on battery or on charger, so not only will it waste your network, it will waste your battery as well.  Beyond frustrated.  The developer, unfortunately, does not understand that this would be a problem to many people.  I have no choice but to empty my wallet and delete this app.

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Andreas Schildbach
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August 16, 2013, 07:50:57 AM
 #394

It now automatically starts up in the background, on a timer!  Every few minutes, it pops up.  That's maddening, to say the least.  This happens no matter if your phone is on battery or on charger, so not only will it waste your network, it will waste your battery as well.  Beyond frustrated.  The developer, unfortunately, does not understand that this would be a problem to many people.  I have no choice but to empty my wallet and delete this app.

This is not new. After you last used the app, it will sync a couple of times in quick succession (15 mins). It will then fallback to sync once a day. It will always time syncs so it will sync at the same time as all other apps. This means there is little or no additional battery used, because your mail, social networks etc. already sync at that time.

In the prefs, I added a shortcut to the Data usage settings. If you really think your wallet should not be updated, go there and restrict data. I certainly recommend not doing that. Don't forget to restrict all the other apps - lots of them use much more data than Bitcoin Wallet.

Bitcoin Wallet for Android: Your own Bitcoins, in your own pocket!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet
elebit
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August 16, 2013, 08:45:27 AM
 #395

Ok, so apparently people are using addresses generated off-device with their Bitcoin Wallets for Android.

How did you do that? Did you write a BWA key backup file and imported it?

And, what does it mean that it's not "supported"? How can it fail me?
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August 16, 2013, 09:32:05 AM
 #396

Quote
Import public and / or private key by scanning QR code, so you can monitor and/or spend

Using a vanity address?

Trying out several mobile wallet apps, using the same set of keys?

Those will probably never be supported. Importing keys is dangerous. Vanity addresses are a broken concept. If you want to try out different wallet apps, why don't you try them out how they're supposed to work and send coins between them?

Quote
Keep private key on paper, and public key in wallet. To spend money, QR scan the private key, store only in memory, spend from private key, and wipe from memory, never saving to storage

This is a recipe for disaster. If you try that with Bitcoin Wallet, you likely will loose all your change from that paper wallet. So say you have stored your lifetime savings of 500 BTC on one paper wallet. Now you decide to pay a hefty doctor's bill from that wallet, let's say 10 BTC. The doctor will receive 10 BTC, the other 490 BTC will disappear into the void. So don't ever do this!

That said, I would like to support swiping paper wallets entirely. The trouble is, a true SPV client cannot do that. Someone would need to invent a new paper wallet format that not only includes the private key, but also the unspent outputs that go to the address (a bit simplified). If someone comes up with a BIP standard for that and manages to get community concensus, I'd happily be amongst the first to support that. Contact me if you're interested.

Quote
Delete private key and only keep public to monitor amount.

Generating a key offline for security reasons?

Another feature I would love to see is deterministic wallets. Back up only backs up the deterministic seed. Every time you spend from an address, all bitcoins are spent, with part going to the person receiving, and the change part going into a new address. The only empty address gets archived and is unused, but can be restored if needed.

Those should be covered with implementing BIP32. Work is on the way, but there is still much to do. Bitcoinj already has the algorithm, but somebody's got to do the wallet integration. And then of course, the UI needs to be adapted.

Bitcoin Wallet for Android: Your own Bitcoins, in your own pocket!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet
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August 16, 2013, 10:01:41 AM
 #397

(Edit) It's worse now!  Unfortunately, there has been an insidious new thing added to this app.  It now automatically starts up in the background, on a timer!  Every few minutes, it pops up.  That's maddening, to say the least.  This happens no matter if your phone is on battery or on charger, so not only will it waste your network, it will waste your battery as well.  Beyond frustrated.  The developer, unfortunately, does not understand that this would be a problem to many people.  I have no choice but to empty my wallet and delete this app.

How are you observing this, by the way? Have you enabled the connection bars in the notification tray? I agree that would be annoying, which is why the indicator is now disabled by default. Try the same thing and you won't be able to see it start up.

The app doesn't "waste network or battery". Go and look at the actual usage in your data/battery usage screens. It's probably 1% or less. This issue exists in your head only.
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August 16, 2013, 05:26:16 PM
 #398

Quote
Keep private key on paper, and public key in wallet. To spend money, QR scan the private key, store only in memory, spend from private key, and wipe from memory, never saving to storage

This is a recipe for disaster. If you try that with Bitcoin Wallet, you likely will loose all your change from that paper wallet. So say you have stored your lifetime savings of 500 BTC on one paper wallet. Now you decide to pay a hefty doctor's bill from that wallet, let's say 10 BTC. The doctor will receive 10 BTC, the other 490 BTC will disappear into the void. So don't ever do this!

What? Why can't the change address simply be the paper wallet itself? Plus isn't this how Android Bitcoin Wallet works already, sending from it's main address, and sending all change right back to the same main address?

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August 16, 2013, 06:57:58 PM
 #399

Sigh. I should have known better considering this app comes from a Google culture.

People do have a right to be able to choose when they run the software on devices that belong to them, disabling choice after so much good work has been done to get this app where it is is a real shame.

I shall be voting with my feet in the future: roll on Ubuntu phone project, they're much more likely to respect the right to choose, as well as people's intelligence. [...]

Vires in numeris
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August 17, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
 #400

Please remove or re-label the "Disconnect" option, it is now clear that the function it implies is disingenuous

Vires in numeris
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