Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB

[Hektur]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?

This person just asked a question.  Not everything on this thread has to do with you. 

[RealMalatesta]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?

Yes, it does. So the more details you can tell me, the more likely it is that a solution can be found.

[Brucexie]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

So you are saying that you only mined on eligius AFTER the hardware was fixed, and you were finding blocks and should be paid.

Eligius are saying that you mined with faulty hardware, weren't finding blocks, and therefore shouldn't be paid.

More detailed information would be needed to decide who is right, namely the dates, hashrate, shares and blocks found. GigaVPS has posted some numbers which seem to show that things aren't that bad statistically speaking.

For 1Gu8, it is fresh.
For 17jk, Not really just AFTER, we mined at it before, we start mining at that pool for a longer time and get paid normally. the pool never notify us for this, if there's really some issue.
After we reviewed the code check-in log, we found that this failure on code mostly impact the BTCguild part and another small pool's part, Eligius was also impacted just by some small testing rig running on it (several T maybe).
When we found that the payment was frozen at eligius, we get back to review the block list, we found nothing on 17jk's before.

[Brucexie]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?

Yes, it does. So the more details you can tell me, the more likely it is that a solution can be found.

What else can I offer?

[RealMalatesta]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?

Yes, it does. So the more details you can tell me, the more likely it is that a solution can be found.

What else can I offer?

If your setting is similar, I assume - and please correct me if I'm wrong - that the situation looks as follows:
a) You have a PC on which your wallet(s) is located
b) You switched your miners on and pointed them to BTCGuild
c) You realized that your software wasn't mining correctly
d) You fixed your software
e) You pointed your hardware to Eligius for the first time

So this would lead to the conclusion that you were not pointing your miners to Eligius before a), right?

And: Is the above summary about correct?

And finally: How long before you started to mine with BTCGuild have you used this PC?

[fryarminer]

I am the owner of 17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc , 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u.

Can you provide us with cryptographic proof of ownership?

No need, because whatever the end of this story is like, The speaking user "Brucexie" on bitcointalk cannot directly get even a cent from it.

17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc and 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u will take all.

You can treat me as a volunteer if you don't believe.

I call "troll". There's not proof that this individual even owns those addresses.

[Brucexie]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?

Yes, it does. So the more details you can tell me, the more likely it is that a solution can be found.

What else can I offer?

If your setting is similar, I assume - and please correct me if I'm wrong - that the situation looks as follows:
a) You have a PC on which your wallet(s) is located
b) You switched your miners on and pointed them to BTCGuild
c) You realized that your software wasn't mining correctly
d) You fixed your software
e) You pointed your hardware to Eligius for the first time

So this would lead to the conclusion that you were not pointing your miners to Eligius before a), right?

And: Is the above summary about correct?

And finally: How long before you started to mine with BTCGuild have you used this PC?

For address 1Gu8xxx, it is.
For 17jk, before A, I used to mined on eligius.
The endpoint is not a PC. A automatic image distributor deploy images of the HDD for it every week, so absolutely no virus.

[Brucexie]

I am the owner of 17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc , 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u.

Can you provide us with cryptographic proof of ownership?

No need, because whatever the end of this story is like, The speaking user "Brucexie" on bitcointalk cannot directly get even a cent from it.

17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc and 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u will take all.

You can treat me as a volunteer if you don't believe.

I call "troll". There's not proof that this individual even owns those addresses.

Under Raize's advice I'll give a signature after get approved from my mining group.
You can see that on the main thread in this sub-forum later.
Before that, please treat me as a "volunteer" of 17jk and 1gu8's owner.

[Luke-Jr]

Just curious, how can you be confident this was a hack?  I mean what is the probability that they've just had bad luck and never got a winning answer but have genuinely been playing fairly?

I've seen the evidence and am convinced (multiple different ways, even) that the miner in question was in fact block withholding.
Whether it was intentional or accidental, I consider irrelevant.
wizkid057 plans to release more information at some point publicly, I'm not sure when.

For your " demanding 1164%-APY interest", Let me paste my last post here:
...
2. Pay under a installment plan: pay 10% per week, or pay 5% a week, with a extra 5% interest.

I calculate 5%/week as 1264% APY... 1.05⁵² = 12.642808
Also, any interest beyond inflation is evil.

If I really wants to make eligius "bad", The right way is to use 10 btc to hire a buck of hacker in china to DDOS that website, instead of risking my 200+ BTC on pretending to be a normal miner.

Eligius is pretty much under constant DDoS these days, so you'd just be wasting your 10 BTC.

And he would had had to have planned this in advance -- it would be trivial to find blocks that paid out to Eligius miners that are not in that list.  So either Eligius is attacking you, or you are attacking Eligius.  (And if WK thought that withholding blocks was a good strategy, why would he focus on one user?)

Edit:  Dammit.  I suppose EvilEligius could just assign blocks to another user -- On reflection, there is nothing really to tie the block the finder.

Actually, this is one of the items planned to be improved for GBT2...
But even now, it's possible to store enough share data to prove that the block was found by the same person finding <bunch of other shares> - though I doubt wizkid057 stores that much data

Oh, you give me an idea.
To hire a PR professional to dress up myself as a selfless man, after being trusted, then start to steel 200+ btc from miner.
200+ btc is about 120K USD, which is enough to hire such part-time expert in mid euro, india, or china.
So it is really profitable.
If you are educated to think independently, my word is for your consider.

If wizkid057 wanted to do this, why wouldn't he take more BTC? 200 BTC isn't that much to be worth the risks of theft...

[thejewelrytech]

I am the owner of 17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc , 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u.
First of all, your PR is very good at dealing with such "incident", to make this thing clear, I'll past the timeline and post we have:

In 5.16, I post my ticket.
In 5.21, you replied to request signature for my address, I replied.
In 5.23, you found my signature is wrong. after investigate, I found that I add a extra space on somewhere, then I re-sign the text.
Then, a week passed. After I said that if there's no response, I will post it on society. Finally, you announced.
Then I give you some option.
Then you keep slience and post this.

The last shared submitted on these address is in first week of May, and you keep slience, until I warn you twice.

For your " demanding 1164%-APY interest", Let me paste my last post here:

===============
Hi,

This may be the last time I ask for your response.
You need to choose one of these two options in 72 hours, or we'll 'escalate' this case to the whole bitcoin society, and your local law enforcement agencies may also be involved later.

1. Pay all unpaid bitcoin before 6/15.
2. Pay under a installment plan: pay 10% per week, or pay 5% a week, with a extra 5% interest.
===================

Thats all, 5% interest. If you can pay me in 10 week, you can still pay nothing extra!!!

And for my "hacking your site if you dont pay", I post my origional words here:

==================
2. No one wants to risk its money (or hash power) to behave maliciously, under the design of bitcoin protocol, since it will for sure bring negative benefit. If I want to act "maliciously", I can pay just even a small proportion of 200btc to a professional hacker, and I believe he can tear your site for weeks. it may be a much better idea than messing your share system up with legal traffic.
==================

May be my english is poor, But I think you know what "IF" means. I just said that assume that I'm a bad guy and want to break your site, it's a better idea to hire a creaker than risk my power of calculation.

Overall, I think that you cannot prove that I was guilty, and you are innocent mathematically. The only word makes you look like innocent is like "I am the 2nd oldest pool, trust me".

Even if it was unintentional you fucked up at everyone elses expense. Other people paid for your mistake in coding. You should return ALL the BTC you've mined.

If you accidentally steal (or even just receive) money from a bank, you are legally required to return it.

Please return all the BTC you mined whilst withholding blocks. It was my understanding this happened by accident (in coding a custom mining client), but that wasn't my mistake, yet you have my money.

How can anyone prove that eligius not erase my block log from the website block list?
You trust eligius more than me, just because that eligius is the 2nd oldest pool?
We used to be as you, until this event.

Your thinly Veiled threats speak very much of your Guilt and Character and of a kid who got his hand caught in the cookie jar.........
Whizkid history on this forum speaks for itself about his character!!! A person who has dedicated his time FREE OF CHARGE never ever asking for a millibit from anyone!!! dedicating  0% fee pool for the public. His actions speaks  volumes about his character for beyond being the second  oldest pool? He's A completely SELFLESS INDIVIDUAL!! All the hard work he has done for the community and has never once asked for anything in return? Speaks for itself! If he wanted coin he could easily have mandated a % fee and yet he asks for NOTHING even after people urge him too make donations mandatory!
 If he was someone who was blinded by GREED he would  of made donations mandatory from the start! and He spends countless hours fixing and updating things for EVERYBODY out of the Goodness of his Heart and yet asks nothing in return?A THANK YOU is good enough for him. Wow  8)That alone speaks a thousand words about his character and what kind of person he is! A completely selfless individual who doesn't just think about himself who puts others before himself! Shoot the man has even put the community before his own wifey countless late nights updating and protecting the site for the betterment of EVERYBODY! Not for Himself!
His actions speak of Integrity of a First Class Individual and anyone who has been mining here knows that If whiz says it happened? You can bet the House rest assured that it's TRUE!!!
 

Oh, you give me an idea.
To hire a PR professional to dress up myself as a selfless man, after being trusted, then start to steel 200+ btc from miner.
200+ btc is about 120K USD, which is enough to hire such part-time expert in mid euro, india, or china.
So it is really profitable.
If you are educated to think independently, my word is for your consider.

Actions speak LOUDER then WORDS and Whiz's actions speak for them self! TRUST EARNED THROUGH Years OF HARD WORK that nobody asked for? It was FREELY GIVING!!That's something you can't put a price on and be taught and bought with because it comes from THE HEART! DOING as you SAY without blinking a EYE!Or having to Think about it !! Just like your actions speak for you? Maybe you should of followed that advise of yours before you stuck your foot in your mouth with veiled threats But fortunately it's way to late for that now rofl Your master is going to be asking for that money back now he paid you to broker this scam for him I bet! You blew it:o
That's Exactly what you ARe  aren't you a PR! The TRUTH gets revealed!!They Should of hired a Pr for the Pr  ;)A volunteer Don't you mean cough cough SOCK PUPPET!!! I can smell that BULLSHIT thousands of miles away like everybody else with half a brain........... Now WE KNoW and have the Answer of WHY CHINA BANS BITCOIN EVERY OTHER DAY? Because of dingle berries like you...................

[ProfMac]

How far back does this discussion start?
What is block withholding?

Just curious, how can you be confident this was a hack?  I mean what is the probability that they've just had bad luck and never got a winning answer but have genuinely been playing fairly?

I've seen the evidence and am convinced (multiple different ways, even) that the miner in question was in fact block withholding.
Whether it was intentional or accidental, I consider irrelevant.
wizkid057 plans to release more information at some point publicly, I'm not sure when.

[gmaxwell]

Actions speak LOUDER then WORDS and Whiz's actions speak for them self! TRUST EARNED THROUGH Years OF HARD WORK that nobody asked for? It was FREELY GIVING!!That's something you can't put a price on and be taught and bought with because it comes from THE HEART! DOING as you SAY without blinking a EYE!Or having to Think about it !! Just like your actions speak for you? Maybe you should of followed that advise of yours before you stuck your foot in your mouth with veiled threats But fortunately it's way to late for that now rofl Your master is going to be asking for that money back now he paid you to broker this scam for him I bet! You blew it:o
That's Exactly what you ARe  aren't you a PR! The TRUTH gets revealed!!They Should of hired a Pr for the Pr  ;)A volunteer Don't you mean cough cough SOCK PUPPET!!! I can smell that BULLSHIT thousands of miles away like everybody else with half a brain........... Now WE KNoW and have the Answer of WHY CHINA BANS BITCOIN EVERY OTHER DAY? Because of dingle berries like you...................

Eligius is also not proposting to keep any of that funds for the pools— but do instead return it to the miners who actually earned it, everyone that was mining during the time when the attacker was withholding blocks and were underpaid on account of the attacker being overpaid.

There is a lot of risk of theft by pool operators, but this isn't the form you should expect it to take.

[S4VV4S]

How far back does this discussion start?
What is block withholding?

Just curious, how can you be confident this was a hack?  I mean what is the probability that they've just had bad luck and never got a winning answer but have genuinely been playing fairly?

I've seen the evidence and am convinced (multiple different ways, even) that the miner in question was in fact block withholding.
Whether it was intentional or accidental, I consider irrelevant.
wizkid057 plans to release more information at some point publicly, I'm not sure when.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=441465.msg7282674#msg7282674

[bolverk]

Actions speak LOUDER then WORDS and Whiz's actions speak for them self! TRUST EARNED THROUGH Years OF HARD WORK that nobody asked for? It was FREELY GIVING!!That's something you can't put a price on and be taught and bought with because it comes from THE HEART! DOING as you SAY without blinking a EYE!Or having to Think about it !! Just like your actions speak for you? Maybe you should of followed that advise of yours before you stuck your foot in your mouth with veiled threats But fortunately it's way to late for that now rofl Your master is going to be asking for that money back now he paid you to broker this scam for him I bet! You blew it:o
That's Exactly what you ARe  aren't you a PR! The TRUTH gets revealed!!They Should of hired a Pr for the Pr  ;)A volunteer Don't you mean cough cough SOCK PUPPET!!! I can smell that BULLSHIT thousands of miles away like everybody else with half a brain........... Now WE KNoW and have the Answer of WHY CHINA BANS BITCOIN EVERY OTHER DAY? Because of dingle berries like you...................

Dude, you're starting to delve into idol worship, chill out.  Wiz is good at what he does, but he's also fallible.  Remember, his stats site got hacked by a SQL injection error which is basically web security 101.  He's also ignored and/or spurned many credible offers of free help, so there's likely a significant level of arrogance as well.  And before you start painting him as some kind of Bitcoin philanthropist you might consider that he *is* getting paid, just not in the coin of the realm.  Like most geeks, he probably takes a great deal of pride in his work, so his coin is in burnishing his reputation, paid by the adulation and appreciation of others.  Going all groupie mode might be overpaying, though.

That said, do I trust Wiz more than this dude?  Of course.  But chill out, and lets wait for full disclosure of the evidence.

In the interim, I express my trust by continuing to keep my paltry hash power on Eligius, where I believe there's little risk.

[mdude77]

Let's not forget if block with holding IS going on, it could be spread out across dozens of different addresses.  Only by comparing the source IPs of the addresses would you see who really owns them.

If I was doing block with holding attacks, I certainly wouldn't put it all on 2 addresses...

M

[coblee]

My guess is he's mining at a lot of pools at the same time and withholding blocks. When he finds a block at one pool, he would move all his hashes to that pool to increase his payout percentage. And then release his valid block after 10 minutes or less. This way, he can increase his expected payout.

It wouldn't be hard to catch this if the pool is paying attention.

[HypnoticGuy]

Under Raize's advice I'll give a signature after get approved from my mining group.

Do the people in your mining group know that you were involved in this withholding attack?

[Littleshop]

My guess is he's mining at a lot of pools at the same time and withholding blocks. When he finds a block at one pool, he would move all his hashes to that pool to increase his payout percentage. And then release his valid block after 10 minutes or less. This way, he can increase his expected payout.

It wouldn't be hard to catch this if the pool is paying attention.

This attack would not work.  Holding a valid block is dangerous as someone else can mine it first and you get less.  Pointing more power for that short period of time would make little difference. 

Block withholding is mostly done to harm a pool, give it back luck and drive users away.  It is not done for direct profit. 

[AnchorBTC]

[Do the people in your mining group know that you were involved in this withholding attack?

This kind of statement is typically pejorative - and its not been just you.

Who knows for sure if this was an attack (as in the sense of it being willful)?

Block withholding due to a bug in mining code that has now been fixed is one thing, an intentional block withholding attack is another.

Brucexie does not appear to deny the former - the extant narrative/claims suggests that there was a cgminer bug in their kit which got fixed - the time line on this is still a little unclear and it would be helpful if this was clarified.

So far as I can tell there is no evidence (that any one has seen presented so far on this forum) to support that this was willful.

Surely one needs this evidence in order to assess it; otherwise one is guessing.

[Entropy-uc]

[Do the people in your mining group know that you were involved in this withholding attack?

This kind of statement is typically pejorative - and its not been just you.

Who knows for sure if this was an attack (as in the sense of it being willful).

Block withholding due to a bug in mining code that has now been fixed is one thing, an intentional block withholding attack is another.

Brucexie does not appear to deny the former - the extant narrative/claims suggests that there was a cgminer bug in their kit which got fixed - the time line on this is still a little unclear and it would be helpful if this was clarified.

So far as I can tell there is no evidence (that any one has seen presented so far on this forum) to support that this was willful.

Surely one needs this evidence in order to assess it; otherwise one is guessing.

creating an account just to say that makes me think something very serious and systematic is going on.