[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]

[dogie]

I hope KNC are going to go from B+ to "Holy shit, did you see that garbage they just shipped to customers that were all completely broken?". Badly packaged, but also very badly designed.

You realize that dogie is forced to grade on a curve, right?  How useful would this thread be if all the grades were "F-"?

Yeah this. No point having a 2 tone system.

I never suggested F- for all. I suggest that a massive failure like this entitles them to a downgrade, probably bumping someone else up a bit. So you still have your curve, but it's more reflective of what's actually happening right now. Meh.

Remember ratings also have quite a historical lag period, taking the last 3 months strongly into account, 6 months weaker into account and then all of the company's trading history even weaker into account (unless they did something terrible, at which point that overrules all). KNC will be reconsidered in the next cycle.

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[dogie]

Changelog 04/30/2014

• Removed future development list
  
• Cleaned up some text

[whonesta]

@ 23+ days withholding refunds KnC should be MUCH lower grade, they have been waffling, excusing, and BS'ing for the last month should be .5 higher then BFL and no more, IMHO 

[Biffa]

@ 23+ days withholding refunds KnC should be MUCH lower grade, they have been waffling, excusing, and BS'ing for the last month should be .5 higher then BFL and no more, IMHO  

There is no way you can relate slightly slow refunds to companies that have been up to a year late with no chance of refund or that have taken over 6 months to refund.

KNC delivered miners over advertised specs pretty much on schedule and have been issuing refunds for those people who don't want to wait for their Neptune Preorder which despite everything are still not late for another two months.

Yes they are self mining, yes you can consider that to be disingenuous, maybe they need the money. It doesn't mean they haven't fulfilled their obligation as hardware suppliers.

Imho of course.

[Bicknellski]

IMO any company that took money for products they reasonably should have known would not be delivered in time to be profitable, while at the same time lying about their ability to deliver should be labeled as scams. That includes HF and BFL.

+1 I agree with that.

At this point it is clear that BFL is not just incompetent in getting a 28nm to market it really is fraud. Given the way the three card monty the orders from Jala's to Monarch to Cloud hashing. You can't really believe it takes 30 to 45 days to get a refund does it? This is counter to FTC regulation and they are breaking the law plain and simple. It is a scam. Now for HF the long trail of changing ToS and NDA type refunds is a huge warning to everyone not to do business with them.

I might add that Dogie is championing Avalon as a renewed trustworthy supplier but we still have not been given any explanations of what really went on and how they have changed significantly so that we are given proper updates as customers. Until that is cleared up I wouldn't recommend buying anything from Avalon they have to earn that trust back and I am willing to listen to Avalon as it moves forward without Yifu but what has changed on the customer relations end is really important. Are they going to communicate with the community when people put in tickets this time? What has changed? Nothing I have seen in the forums indicates that they have a new way of dealing with complaints. They might need a CRM team who speak English I think and are in communication with Avalon daily otherwise why bother buying from Avalon?

[cedivad]

+1 I agree with that.

How is it possible that people don't realise that there is an economic incentive in creating and maintaining such a list?

[Bicknellski]

+1 I agree with that.

How is it possible that people don't realise that there is an economic incentive in creating and maintaining such a list?

Well there can be multiple lists. Websites and media for this. Too bad more people are not taking up what Dogie is doing here. We need more reviews and reviewers and more independent people like Dogie. I am sure we will see the community mature and HF and BFL and other like companies will disappear. We need to promote the good as much as we need to point out the bad. In fact pointing to the good companies is far more effective I think.

[Blazed]

I think that most of these ratings seem pretty good except the Avalon being a B+.  I know you like them for some reason, but they screwed a lot of people over really bad.  They are boycotted for a reason...and should stay that way.

[Blazed]

"Trade in orders were never refunded" I mean come on...

[Lincoln6Echo]

I think that most of these ratings seem pretty good except the Avalon being a B+.  I know you like them for some reason, but they screwed a lot of people over really bad.  They are boycotted for a reason...and should stay that way.

+1
Exactly my point!

[dogie]

+1 I agree with that.

How is it possible that people don't realise that there is an economic incentive in creating and maintaining such a list?

How is it possible that I post a question in your thread, and suddenly the list is corrupt and every company ever is paying me to rate them? Lul. I have made a total sum of -300 hours and $0 from this guide.

I think that most of these ratings seem pretty good except the Avalon being a B+.  I know you like them for some reason, but they screwed a lot of people over really bad.  They are boycotted for a reason...and should stay that way.

+1
Exactly my point!

I spent a lot of time with them trying to unravel what happened and laid out plans of how to make it right and move on. The community hatred was too much for the small team to handle and they gave up with us and now don't trade here. They don't trade so their rating is frozen regardless of up or down. But people got what they want, which was to drive them away and no one to buy from them. Now china just enjoys more variety and market competition.

[kano]

+1 I agree with that.

How is it possible that people don't realise that there is an economic incentive in creating and maintaining such a list?

How is it possible that I post a question in your thread, and suddenly the list is corrupt and every company ever is paying me to rate them? Lul. I have made a total sum of -300 hours and $0 from this guide.
...

No, you have been sent hardware ... no idea why you would lie about that $0 since it is obvious and well known.

How is it that that slipped your mind?

(aside: I also receive hardware as cgminer donations)

[dogie]

+1 I agree with that.

How is it possible that people don't realise that there is an economic incentive in creating and maintaining such a list?

How is it possible that I post a question in your thread, and suddenly the list is corrupt and every company ever is paying me to rate them? Lul. I have made a total sum of -300 hours and $0 from this guide.
...

No, you have been sent hardware ... no idea why you would lie about that $0 since it is obvious and well known.

How is it that that slipped your mind?

(aside: I also receive hardware as cgminer donations)

Because that's an entirely entirely separate side of what I do and that's made very clear both before and after. A good portion of people who request a review actually pull out when they find that I've still given their company a 'bad' rating. You might not have ethics (if you're accusing me) but I do. If you want to accuse me of being biased then you can start a thread in meta or scam accusations.

So yes, the hours spent on this resource for the community nets me $0.

[Bicknellski]

+1 I agree with that.

How is it possible that people don't realise that there is an economic incentive in creating and maintaining such a list?

How is it possible that I post a question in your thread, and suddenly the list is corrupt and every company ever is paying me to rate them? Lul. I have made a total sum of -300 hours and $0 from this guide.
...

No, you have been sent hardware ... no idea why you would lie about that $0 since it is obvious and well known.

How is it that that slipped your mind?

(aside: I also receive hardware as cgminer donations)

Because that's an entirely entirely separate side of what I do and that's made very clear both before and after. A good portion of people who request a review actually pull out when they find that I've still given their company a 'bad' rating. You might not have ethics (if you're accusing me) but I do. If you want to accuse me of being biased then you can start a thread in meta or scam accusations.

So yes, the hours spent on this resource for the community nets me $0.

Again I would disagree with Dogie about Avalon but he has his reasons and puts them out for scrutiny of all and doesn't use this position to "pressure" people to give him units to review unlike some in this community who beg for units for any number of reasons. Not seen him once ask for a unit to review they have been given based on his reputation for being fairly neutral. If you are a reputable fab then you would give him a unit knowing you would get an unbiased and fair review. This is a needed service just need more people willing to do the same like Neil at minepeon. At this point in time there are no others reviewing companies in this way. If you don't like what he does then do your own reviews but we all should be thankful someone is doing it. It probably has saved some people financial ruin just by trusting his reviews.

[kano]

+1 I agree with that.

How is it possible that people don't realise that there is an economic incentive in creating and maintaining such a list?

How is it possible that I post a question in your thread, and suddenly the list is corrupt and every company ever is paying me to rate them? Lul. I have made a total sum of -300 hours and $0 from this guide.
...

No, you have been sent hardware ... no idea why you would lie about that $0 since it is obvious and well known.

How is it that that slipped your mind?

(aside: I also receive hardware as cgminer donations)

Because that's an entirely entirely separate side of what I do and that's made very clear both before and after. A good portion of people who request a review actually pull out when they find that I've still given their company a 'bad' rating. You might not have ethics (if you're accusing me) but I do. If you want to accuse me of being biased then you can start a thread in meta or scam accusations.

So yes, the hours spent on this resource for the community nets me $0.

Ah OK it's all under the table - pretend you never got any of it

Again I would disagree with Dogie about Avalon but he has his reasons and puts them out for scrutiny of all and doesn't use this position to "pressure" people to give him units to review unlike some in this community who beg for units for any number of reasons.

Anyone in particular?
When I was offered a unit from the company that kicked you out, I told them I didn't want it - that was related to you also why I didn't want it

Not seen him once ask for a unit to review they have been given based on his reputation for being fairly neutral. If you are a reputable fab then you would give him a unit knowing you would get an unbiased and fair review. This is a needed service just need more people willing to do the same like Neil at minepeon. At this point in time there are no others reviewing companies in this way. If you don't like what he does then do your own reviews but we all should be thankful someone is doing it. It probably has saved some people financial ruin just by trusting his reviews.

This last point is complete crap.
Pretty much anyone who takes note of this thread and decides to buy hardware will lose BTC.
That's a fact that has been ignored by the thread even after I've brought it up.
i.e. he is covering for the manufacturers in the opening post - hiding the fact that it is a loss to buy mining hardware.
... so the question is ... why does he hide that?

[dogie]

Ah OK it's all under the table - pretend you never got any of it

Eh? All hardware I receive is published unlike yours I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it doesnt make much sense for you to say I'm receiving hardware under the table?

This last point is complete crap.
Pretty much anyone who takes note of this thread and decides to buy hardware will lose BTC.
That's a fact that has been ignored by the thread even after I've brought it up.
i.e. he is covering for the manufacturers in the opening post - hiding the fact that it is a loss to buy mining hardware.
... so the question is ... why does he hide that?

The thread doesn't once mention profitability, or "buy this product it is a money printer" - its not to do with that. This resource is for people who are going to buy so they can have the best chance of not getting screwed by the marketplace. We can't make or prevent buyers from buying, so might as well help educate.

+ any thread along those lines would sit in mining speculation.

[Bicknellski]

You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.

Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...

I overhauled Luke-jr's BFL code to make it more robust, but also slight more efficent (cpu usage wise).

P_Shep definitely did make notable contributions to the BFL driver.

Ya I wouldn't be throwing any stones Kano. Especially when ckolivas basically says you extort people for mining equipment. To paraphrase a pm he sent me September 17, 2013,: 'Just give him a miner and he will leave you alone.'

[kano]

You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.

Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...

I overhauled Luke-jr's BFL code to make it more robust, but also slight more efficent (cpu usage wise).

P_Shep definitely did make notable contributions to the BFL driver.

Ya I wouldn't be throwing any stones Kano. Especially when ckolivas basically says you extort people for mining equipment. To paraphrase a pm he sent me September 17, 2013,: 'Just give him a miner and he will leave you alone.'

Feel free to post the whole PM
Clearly it's not something I said so you'll need to get someone else's approval though. Oh I didn't write that? Hmm ..........
I'd be curious to see exactly where you think someone else has said something - and then also claim that your 'adjustment' of what they said means I extort people.
Show me one post anywhere on this forum where I have extorted ANYONE to send me hardware.
One post. Just one. Anywhere on this entire forum.

I could also point out how you dropped the ball with Klondike.
Something that I spent a lot of effort working on with the teams doing the Klondike hardware, long after you'd dropped the ball.

As for quoting Luke-Jr - I've no idea why that's even relevant.
Many things Luke-Jr says about cgminer are lies ... and I have proven that a number of times on this forum.
Github doesn't lie and it often proves he is lying.

In fact that post you are quoting is a clear lie also.
Check github about where the code was committed.
It was committed by Luke-Jr first into cgminer.
Ckolivas changed some of that code also, and those early changes made, Luke-Jr later committed into his hostile fork of cgminer.
So oddly enough, though strange that I need to explain it, you must clearly be a moron, but that means we also contributed to the BFL FPGA driver. I never took credit for the whole driver. But strange as it may sound to a moron like you, I do take credit ..... for the code I write
Find me a post anywhere on this forum where I have attempted to take credit for anything Luke-Jr wrote. Ever.
I wouldn't be stupid enough to put my name behind any code written by Mr McDonalds hamburger chef.
I will also point out that the first major change in the BFL FPGA driver by ckolivas was to do with handling LP and thus improving it pool accept rate.
Luke-Jr also wrote an LP change before this, but did not release it to the public, he kept it to himself - which was the reason I pestered ckolivas to write LP changes for it.

Now since there's also the possibility that you might have been stupid enough to read that quote and not even know which driver it refers to, I'll add:
The BFL ASIC driver in cgminer was written by me.
It now includes changes since then by ckolivas also.

[dogie]

Anyway, back on topic now

[Bicknellski]

Anyway, back on topic now

Funny how Kano skews things off topic wherever he goes.