[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]

[kano]

^^ Lol, not even going to bother quoting that. Well aware of what you've said, but its still bullshit.

Its an open economic market, if you think its overpriced then don't buy. Its like blaming your local butcher for selling chicken at $10/lbs when walmart has it for $8/lbs. Just don't buy there. But to then cry at the local butcher, while buying his chicken.... there is no logic there.

I suggest you start here.

I don't buy.
D'oh.

Then what are you complaining about... The market sets the prices with supply and demand, like the exchanges. Should I start rating bitstamp F because they were selling bitcoins overpriced at $1200 using hindsight?

Bitcoin Miners: more willing to take it up the asic and say harder, than a Hentai Anime Girl

My issue with your OP post is that you ignore this fact and even hide it in obscurity since most people are as ignorant as you on the subject and don't even see they are losing BTC ... tis funny also.

I'm happy with my hardware that isn't losing BTC

[1715172282]

1715172282

[SebastianJu]

I think buyers should calculate themself if its worth to buy miners. A link to a proper calculator might be helpful for noobs though.
At the end... only because Asicminer was the first in the market, and started with the target to do what they did, means that they destroyed mining? It was simply inevitable. It doesnt matter who did it. It would have happened anyway.

[dogie]

I think buyers should calculate themself if its worth to buy miners. A link to a proper calculator might be helpful for noobs though.
At the end... only because Asicminer was the first in the market, and started with the target to do what they did, means that they destroyed mining? It was simply inevitable. It doesnt matter who did it. It would have happened anyway.

Exactly :/ I'd have to rate every company equally responsible and then we'd just have everyone between F- and E. What's the point of that? I'm very surprised a 1k activity member is saying such weird things, I guess he just longs for the days when an FPGA was the best you could buy.

[kano]

I think buyers should calculate themself if its worth to buy miners. A link to a proper calculator might be helpful for noobs though.
At the end... only because Asicminer was the first in the market, and started with the target to do what they did, means that they destroyed mining? It was simply inevitable. It doesnt matter who did it. It would have happened anyway.

Yes.

But giving the company that has done this the longest, and made massive profit overcharging people, an "A+", really make a "Trustworthiness Guide" a sham.

Sounds more like "they bought an A+ by lining my wallet" ...

"The market has made their price OK to rip people off due to their ignorance, give them an A+" is what he is saying.

Thread fail - bye.

[dogie]

"The market has made their price OK to rip people off due to their ignorance, give them an A+" is what he is saying.

Quoted here for the future. You ARE asking me to downvote every company that offers up a price unfavourable to you. Remember, ASICMiner made its money for its shareholders (people in the community). And for the record, I've never held ASICMiner stock and nor do they 'line my wallet'. I have a man purse.

[aigeezer]

"The market has made their price OK to rip people off due to their ignorance, give them an A+" is what he is saying.

Quoted here for the future. You ARE asking me to downvote every company that offers up a price unfavourable to you. Remember, ASICMiner made its money for its shareholders (people in the community). And for the record, I've never held ASICMiner stock and nor do they 'line my wallet'. I have a man purse.

Heh - it's destined to be a lightning rod thread. No matter what you do, somebody won't like it.

In that vein, perhaps BFL doesn't really deserve a Z- because, despite everything, their products actually work. Maybe a Z would be low enough? (Never again for me, BFL, even though it works just fine. There are things that can never be forgiven).

[kano]

"The market has made their price OK to rip people off due to their ignorance, give them an A+" is what he is saying.

Quoted here for the future. You ARE asking me to downvote every company that offers up a price unfavourable to you. Remember, ASICMiner made its money for its shareholders (people in the community). And for the record, I've never held ASICMiner stock and nor do they 'line my wallet'. I have a man purse.

Heh you brought up another issue about Asicminer ...

Look at that graph I posted ... see if you can see how it clearly shows they ripped off the community who had stock in the early days ... and doing that right back at the start ...

[dogie]

"The market has made their price OK to rip people off due to their ignorance, give them an A+" is what he is saying.

Quoted here for the future. You ARE asking me to downvote every company that offers up a price unfavourable to you. Remember, ASICMiner made its money for its shareholders (people in the community). And for the record, I've never held ASICMiner stock and nor do they 'line my wallet'. I have a man purse.

Heh you brought up another issue about Asicminer ...

Look at that graph I posted ... see if you can see how it clearly shows they ripped off the community who had stock in the early days ... and doing that right back at the start ...

Those people were misinformed when making investment decisions then. ASICMiner from the start published they wanted the farm of all farms. All their early hardware was sold at auction anyway, so WE set the prices. I had B1 B2 and B3 blades, I have no problem with the prices I paid because I offered to pay them.

[railzand]

I still think your excellent op needs more newby-proofing.

Sth along the line of big bold letters, more caveats, calculators,

links to warnings about the 99.99% likelihood of losing btc when buying from any asic mfg. without reselling on ebay. (bitmain was the 0.01% for some weeks)

As it stands many newbs will cursorily look at your work, buy the next ASICminer offerings and blame you, albeit wrongly, for losing their precious.

[SebastianJu]

I think buyers should calculate themself if its worth to buy miners. A link to a proper calculator might be helpful for noobs though.
At the end... only because Asicminer was the first in the market, and started with the target to do what they did, means that they destroyed mining? It was simply inevitable. It doesnt matter who did it. It would have happened anyway.

Yes.

But giving the company that has done this the longest, and made massive profit overcharging people, an "A+", really make a "Trustworthiness Guide" a sham.

Sounds more like "they bought an A+ by lining my wallet" ...

"The market has made their price OK to rip people off due to their ignorance, give them an A+" is what he is saying.

Thread fail - bye.

I wouldnt buy any mining hardware at the moment too. Its simply too risky OR not profitable from the start. But i think this thread isnt about profitability at all. Its only about rating the companies. If they deliver in time, if they deliver at all, how trustworthy were they to deliver at the end and so on.
At the end... if i would have run Asicminer... i wouldnt sell the miners for cheaper as long as there are enough buyers. It simply wouldnt make sense to throw away money.
And the buyers are responsible for themself. Thats why people buy cigarettes and still are happy even though they should know what they do to themselfes.

[dogie]

I still think your excellent op needs more newby-proofing.

Sth along the line of big bold letters, more caveats, calculators,

links to warnings about the 99.99% likelihood of losing btc when buying from any asic mfg. without reselling on ebay. (bitmain was the 0.01% for some weeks)

As it stands many newbs will cursorily look at your work, buy the next ASICminer offerings and blame you, albeit wrongly, for losing their precious.

Ill think about it

[SebastianJu]

I still think your excellent op needs more newby-proofing.

Sth along the line of big bold letters, more caveats, calculators,

links to warnings about the 99.99% likelihood of losing btc when buying from any asic mfg. without reselling on ebay. (bitmain was the 0.01% for some weeks)

As it stands many newbs will cursorily look at your work, buy the next ASICminer offerings and blame you, albeit wrongly, for losing their precious.

Ill think about it

I think its needed to at least post one or 2 calculators that take the future diff-development into account. Im saying that because its happening occassionally that i get requests to buy avalon gen 1! chips or miners from me. People probably found my old groupbuy thread and dont realize how very much outdated this is. Giving some links at hand would be a real help to safe a lot noobs from errors. Guys that only heard that they need to buy a miner to earn money and dont know the facts.

[thenextmoney]

I like this thread. thank you.
Being a newbie to mining, when I read the title of the thread manufacturers trustworthiness, I in no way expected there to be info regarding profitability of said equipment. The Title is clear, how trust worthy are the manufacturers ( do they actually deliver / on time) I think this thread covers that well.
If profitability is your main concern as a buyer / miner, you should really do some due dilligence and hit up some calculators as the profitability of mining directly correlates with the price of btc.
Anyone willing to drop money into more advanced asics (bigger $$) if of a reasonably sound mind can do that research on their own.
again good thread op.

[dogie]

I like this thread. thank you.
Being a newbie to mining, when I read the title of the thread manufacturers trustworthiness, I in no way expected there to be info regarding profitability of said equipment. The Title is clear, how trust worthy are the manufacturers ( do they actually deliver / on time) I think this thread covers that well.
If profitability is your main concern as a buyer / miner, you should really do some due dilligence and hit up some calculators as the profitability of mining directly correlates with the price of btc.
Anyone willing to drop money into more advanced asics (bigger $$) if of a reasonably sound mind can do that research on their own.
again good thread op.

This is what I was thinking, thanks for writing down your thoughts. No where have I mentioned anything about $$$ or projections or income or costs. (For now), all this is is historically and recently, has company x tried to swindle people, how much karma do they have?

[-ck]

What we really need is : Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Profitability Loss Guide

[dogie]

What we really need is : Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Profitability Loss Guide

I've been thinking about it a lot and been watching some of the previous attempts, but its a hard and potentially misleading thing to do. There is no universally accepted difficulty prediction thread, so there would be a reasonable spread. And what exactly is the usefulness if its just going to show that no hardware will pay itself back? Can it do more damage than good if a product appears that it will make a profit and then is delayed 6 weeks?

Problems, problems.

[alfabitcoin]

I also think at least a note next to the bitmine that they have completed their asic A1 chip and trough site and Zefir diy community got samples and can buy chips. Marto technobit already delivered miners based on bitmine chip.
* read my prior post to see other comments. Misleading note about bitmine not honoring refunds when they have cpp, while you praise black arrow who does not issue refunds also and does not have even manufactured asic chip. Both company are delayed but bitmine has a working chip what can be bought, ba does not and maybe will in May.

[dogie]

I also think at least a note next to the bitmine that they have completed their asic A1 chip and trough site and Zefir diy community got samples and can buy chips. Marto technobit already delivered miners based on bitmine chip.
* read my prior post to see other comments. Misleading note about bitmine not honoring refunds when they have cpp, while you praise black arrow who does not issue refunds also and does not have even manufactured asic chip. Both company are delayed but bitmine has a working chip what can be bought, ba does not and maybe will in May.

Changelog 02/20/2014

• Added explanation regarding chip integrators having lower ratings compared to chip creators.
• Added explanation regarding the higher weighting of more recent problems/good work.

Company changes:

• BitMine to be reviewed 1st March on release performance (with delay compensation).
  
• AMT moved to chip integrators. Set C. Promoted to C+ on delivery of first orders, taken a hit due to delays and lack of communication.
• VMC Set D. Promoted to C+ on testing publication, with no additional problems.

[alfabitcoin]

Again, black arrow can have b rating but only as chip integrator! They does not have asic yet? They do not offer refunds! Did not even taped out!
So how is fair that bitmine has lower grade when they have working and delivered asic chip?

[SebastianJu]

dogie... in case you add a link to a calculator i suggest this one: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/
The future diff-development is calculated automatically from the past diff-rises. So its pretty noobfriendly and way more real than the calculators that dont take diff-increases into account and might mislead noobs.