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Author Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]  (Read 130989 times)
dogie
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September 05, 2014, 10:27:27 AM
 #501

Any chance at reviewing AMT's status? They have at least on the ethics side shown their colors. Deliveries started, but in various states of missing parts. I was lucky and got complete units only because they were meant for someone else. However, a number of other people got bad missing parts. Considering how long it also took and the issues still on going, it would seem to be worth another look.

Can you link me to some of the missing parts?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584891.700 this page and a few more things besides missing PSUs. Early orders not received and such.

I didn't actually see one case of missing parts on that page :/

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September 05, 2014, 04:35:44 PM
 #502

dogie, Curious what your take is on Antminer's move into the cloud mining business and their announcement of the L1 with pre-orders apparently starting 4 months in advance before they even have a prototype.  Seems like a dramatic departure for them from the previous practices that earned them the outstanding rep they currently have  in the community.
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September 12, 2014, 02:35:46 PM
 #503

Glad to see the guide stays updated Cheesy

"amtminers scam joshua zipkin scammer"
-Joshua Zipkin leaked skype chats http://bit.ly/1s7U2Yb
-For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself.
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September 12, 2014, 02:58:32 PM
 #504

Glad to see the guide stays updated Cheesy

Every time I update I get a fresh wave of flame so it only gets updated when I feel like getting flamed.

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September 12, 2014, 03:07:35 PM
 #505

Glad to see the guide stays updated Cheesy

Every time I update I get a fresh wave of flame so it only gets updated when I feel like getting flamed.

did not see any update Huh
regarding AM, there is not even a mention of the Tubes et al.
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September 12, 2014, 03:10:38 PM
 #506

Glad to see the guide stays updated Cheesy

Every time I update I get a fresh wave of flame so it only gets updated when I feel like getting flamed.

Hey, if you're getting flamed, it means a ton of people are reading your guides.

You know the saying, "opinions are like #holes, everyone's got one."

Personally, I think your guides are a good starting point for the uninitiated.  Are they perfect, nothing is, but to a noob who's about to pull a trigger on a purchase, they can see at a glance that Bitmain, Rockminer, and Spoondoolies ship and BFL, Black Arrow, and AMT suck donkey schlong.

Keep doing what your doing, screw the haters:

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September 12, 2014, 03:28:58 PM
 #507

I agree. You are doing great work. And you are clearly always looking to improve it. That is the most important thing. I think this is about as objective as you can make it. Now if anyone else can do better then they should open up their own thread and do the same. The problem is alot of times people will just talk and not back it up with something actionable. Its easy to talk crap but harder to back it up with something actionable. After my own personal experience with a couple of vendors here, I used this guide to great effect.  Now I deal with only one specific vendor regularly because of their service. The reviews plus research I did afterwards only cemented my confidence in this review thread as a source of info for new people. That of course is my own personal experience on the matter. I would urge anyone reading of course to do their own research. 

"amtminers scam joshua zipkin scammer"
-Joshua Zipkin leaked skype chats http://bit.ly/1s7U2Yb
-For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself.
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September 12, 2014, 05:27:28 PM
Last edit: September 13, 2014, 12:21:09 AM by dogie
 #508

Changelog 09/12/2014
Company changes:
  • Canaan Creative added (92).
  • XBTech Added (80).
  • Lightning ASIC 'Own Chips' changed from 'No' to 'Promised' (1 to 5). Overall score from 54 to 58.
  • BFL 'Own Chips' changed from 'Promised' to 'Yes' (5 to 10).
  • BFL 'Delivered Yet?' changed from 'No' to 'Few' (1 to 5). Overall score from 24 to 33.
  • BlackArrow 'Hardware Issues?' changed from 'Major' to 'Minor' (1 to 6). Overall score from 35 to 40.
  • Bitmine 'Hardware Issues?' changed from 'No' to 'Some' (10 to 6). Overall score from 63 to 59.
  • Technobit 'Hardware Issues?' changed from 'No' to 'Some' (10 to 6). Overall score from 78 to 74.
  • SpondooliesTech 'Preorders?' changed from 'Mix' to 'Yes' (8 to 1). Overall score from 85 to 78.
  • Bitmain 'Preorders?' changed from 'Batch' to 'Mix' (16 to 8 ). Overall score from 93 to 83.

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September 12, 2014, 06:27:48 PM
 #509

...
Keep doing what your doing, screw the haters:
...

^That.
Thanks for this thread.
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September 12, 2014, 10:10:48 PM
 #510

Looks like you're missing Black Miner

Rent my SHA-256 rigs on Mining Rig Rentals.
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September 12, 2014, 10:39:09 PM
 #511

Looks like you're missing Black Miner

Need to see them actually deliver stuff.

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September 12, 2014, 11:37:44 PM
 #512

Changelog 09/12/2014
Company changes:
  • Canaan Creative added (92).
  • XBTech Added (80).
  • Lightning ASIC 'Own Chips' changed from 'No' to 'Promised' (1 to 5). Overall score from 54 to 58.
  • BFL 'Own Chips' changed from 'Promised' to 'Yes' (5 to 10).
  • BFL 'Delivered Yet?' changed from 'No' to 'Few' (1 to 5). Overall score from 24 to 33.
  • BlackArrow 'Hardware Issues?' changed from 'Major' to 'Minor' (1 to 6). Overall score from 35 to 40.
  • Bitmine 'Hardware Issues?' changed from 'No' to 'Some' (10 to 6). Overall score from 63 to 59.
  • Technobit 'Hardware Issues?' changed from 'No' to 'Some' (10 to 6). Overall score from 78 to 74.
  • SpondooliesTech 'Preorders?' changed from 'Mix' to 'Yes' (8 to 1). Overall score from 85 to 78.
  • Bitmain 'Preorders?' changed from 'Batch' to 'Mix' (16 to 8 ). Overall score from 93 to 83.

Nice update.

Although saying BA has minor quality issues is a huge stretch.

As far as I know every single X3 shipped to date is at risk of catching on fire, X1's have a 50/50 chance of being dead and plenty of other issues with the hardware.

Also AMT and BA both deserve 1/10 in ethics for BFL'ing.

I don't think it needs explaining why they deserve BFL status but incase you haven't been following the shitstorms I'd be happy to explain.
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September 13, 2014, 12:20:06 AM
Last edit: September 14, 2014, 04:49:14 AM by dogie
 #513


Nice update.

Although saying BA has minor quality issues is a huge stretch.
As far as I know every single X3 shipped to date is at risk of catching on fire, X1's have a 50/50 chance of being dead and plenty of other issues with the hardware.

Also AMT and BA both deserve 1/10 in ethics for BFL'ing.

I don't think it needs explaining why they deserve BFL status but incase you haven't been following the shitstorms I'd be happy to explain.

Can you explain the BA BFLing. I had forgotten about the X3 problems, reversed it back to Major.

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September 13, 2014, 12:58:25 AM
 #514

Can you explain the BA BFLing. I had forgotten about the X3 problems, reversed it back to Major.

There are too many to list so here's just the main ones off the top of my head.

- Guaranteed price 25% less than the competition at time of shipping, which was later changed to match competition prices, then was completely thrown out the window because they couldn't afford to increase compensate due to their use of "premium quality parts".

- Completely lied in January about being on track for February delivery when they haven't even taped-out yet.

- Offered refunds but changed their mind and are now shipping hardware to those who requested them.

- Censoring negative posts on these and their own forums. Over 100 pages deleted on this forum alone. They even went as far as to make a moderating bot that automatically deletes certain users posts every 15 minutes. They are also claiming anyone with a negative opinion against BA is a paid shill from some competitor..

- Created a "naughtly list" like AMT so everyone critical of the company can receive special treatment. They even posted someones full name/address to "prove" they weren't a BA customer but in fact the person had purchased BA hardware from minersource (who gave BA the info).

- Apparently no money for refunds but enough money to make a scrypt asics as well as a 14nm bitcoin asic.

It's almost an exact repeat of BFL from a year ago.
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September 13, 2014, 04:43:57 PM
 #515

Can you explain the BA BFLing. I had forgotten about the X3 problems, reversed it back to Major.

There are too many to list so here's just the main ones off the top of my head.

- Guaranteed price 25% less than the competition at time of shipping, which was later changed to match competition prices, then was completely thrown out the window because they couldn't afford to increase compensate due to their use of "premium quality parts".

- Completely lied in January about being on track for February delivery when they haven't even taped-out yet.

- Offered refunds but changed their mind and are now shipping hardware to those who requested them.

- Censoring negative posts on these and their own forums. Over 100 pages deleted on this forum alone. They even went as far as to make a moderating bot that automatically deletes certain users posts every 15 minutes. They are also claiming anyone with a negative opinion against BA is a paid shill from some competitor..

- Created a "naughtly list" like AMT so everyone critical of the company can receive special treatment. They even posted someones full name/address to "prove" they weren't a BA customer but in fact the person had purchased BA hardware from minersource (who gave BA the info).

- Apparently no money for refunds but enough money to make a scrypt asics as well as a 14nm bitcoin asic.

It's almost an exact repeat of BFL from a year ago.

i second this.

They indeed 'guaranteed' to match or beat the price of competitors, but kept coming up with excuses as to why they couldn't keep their promises. Some of the excuses include competitors miners being less energy efficient, and/or having no fancy additions like LCD, wifi, aluminium casing etc (stuff we didn't even ask for in the first place). And Blackarrow claiming 'military grade hardware' (which proved to be just another lie, since they called back their X-3's for, you guessed it, fire hazard.

Deleted most of the complains, not only in their own forum, but also in the official blackarrow thread on bitcointalk, which is of course self-moderated, and just short of 30% of the posts has been deleted. (the thread itself is just over 300 pages, the thread of deleted posts is over 100 pages)

up till the end of february they claimed not only to be on time, but actually 'ahead of schedule'. They kept silent until days prior to delivery date, when people started to ask for their log-in information (as they promised 5 days of hosted mining prior to shipping). Then, they send a mass-email delaying the shipment by about 1 month but offering a generous compensation. They also kept pretty silent during that month, and once it became clear they would miss yet another deadline, they 'upgraded' the compensation package and claimed it would take 'just a few more weeks'. They also asked for even more money by demanding us to pay extra for the PSUs of the compensation, as the PSU was not included in the new compensation plan. They also offered to ship just the ASIC chips rather than a complete miner.

They also blamed various suppliers for their failure, rather than taking the blame themselves.

They do not honor refunds, even though they claimed they would refund as soon as the first miners would ship. Which is obviously a lie, and the lie only served to delay the inevitable.

About a year ago i ordered a miner from BFL, and though, never again, this time i'll buy from a trustworthy company, and though BA would be different because they had a good reputation with FPGAs. But to be honest at least BFL delivered a miner that is still working (i gave it to my cousin though), and at least made me back some money (not sure if i broke even or not, but still), BA has yet to deliver anything and in fact i don't even want it anymore because it's outdated by now and it will cost more electricity than it will mine.
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September 14, 2014, 05:18:50 AM
 #516

Well I have multiple concerns about the rating you gave Bitmain.

Not for their benefit either.

1. They never returned any of my coins and do not even have an Antminer S1 available anymore for me to purchase. They also do not reply at all when I ask about it and refuse to give my coins back when I give them an address to send back to , post the transaction ids and details about my 3 orders.

This all stems back to when I originally tried to secure 3 Orders of Antminer S1s that I was going to purchase 1 for myself , 1 for abbeytim and 1 for GTRsdk.

Less then a month after the Antminer S1 was up for sale the Gridseeds starting coming out and after 2 Months they were fully out and A LOT more profitable then the Antminer S1.

I had sent roughly a total of 0.1 Bitcoin split among the 3 orders and as much as it's not alot of Bitcoin it's about the lack of communication , lack of repayment , lack of even looking at my order , lack of customer service and lack of caring at all on the part of Bitmain Tech.

So to say they have good Communication is bad. The lack of Communication I consider is terrible Communication.

To say they refund orders is a complete lie I have never once seen them refund an order ever.

2. The next concern I have is about their ethics and quality of the miners. They do not have good ethics because they premine constantly on your hardware to the extent of them being a completely over-used almost dead unit when it arrives. This has been proven many times that they do in fact do this and that they do it more often then other companies. This is proof the company does not care about you as a Customer nor do they care if your unit dies or does not meet ROI. They also get ROI numbers from when your Overclock the Unit. If you Overclock the Unit you lose any RMA you could ever get again and Bitmain Tech as a company is telling you to Overclock simply for the fact they want you to break your unit and not be able to replace it.

3. My final concern is about the Pre-Orders. They went from being a company that was against taking Pre-Orders and wanting to sell their products as they had them to being a Company that has moved everything to the Cloud and just wants to sell out fast not caring if anyone can reach ROI (which they can't).

Overall I really dislike Bitmain Tech for the way they handle things , I dislike their ethics and I dislike the fact they don't seem to care about me as a Customer.

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September 14, 2014, 06:00:40 AM
 #517

how come using other companies chips drops the trustworthiness score?

I dont see how RM using AM chips should make them less trustworthy
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September 14, 2014, 06:06:05 PM
 #518

I really like your efforts here. Relative newbie saying "thanks".
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September 14, 2014, 08:29:53 PM
 #519

Bitmine has a way too high a score. Refunds, communication and ethics should all be 1/BFL. They owe customers hundreds of thousands if not millions and haven't paid a single refund in months. They answer maybe 1 out of 10 emails and every reply is some copy/paste BS. They built their own mining farm in Iceland using customer money they were supposed to pay back ages ago. They are definitely scammers, no doubt about it.
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September 16, 2014, 06:28:11 AM
 #520

After the Backlash I gave Bitmain Tech on their Official Thread I was offered a Full Refund within 3 days and their Financial Department is doing a full Inquiry into all other Orders that may need to be Refunded. I have 1000 times more respect for Bitmain Tech now and would like to retract what I previously said. Although it took an extremely long time to get a Refund when made aware of the Unfulfilled Orders I was offered a Refund in Full as well as them Inquiring about all other Unfulfilled Orders. This is an extremely good move on Bitmain Tech's part and makes them all the more Trusthworhy in my opinion.

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