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Author Topic: [ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]  (Read 629712 times)
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minerpart
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April 26, 2014, 02:44:37 PM
 #2561

surely I'm allowed my opinion to call BS on any alleged instigation (haven't seen any proof!)… Otherwise why would trading still be on going? Also, why are other companies trading without harassment?

 Roll Eyes

This has literally been answered several times. Can I call BS on your question because I don't think it is genuine and is just another attempt at stirring up trouble?

Trading is not still going on. BF was shut down directly/indirectly by the SEC and since then trading has not been going on. Except on CT where Ken took a risk by listing a small number of shares with a possible upcoming MSD investigation - but he had to to quickly make sure the Ukyo lien progressed before Ukyo could take legal proceedings against the move. Ken took a chance and a risk here to safeguard company funds as he clearly said at the time. Company funds which he has likely spent on getting OUR mining farm running. Not that he gets much credit it seems from you about that knybe.

Are other companies trading without harassment? HOW do you know that? BF, BTC-TC closed down, you don't think anything else is going on? Maybe no other companies have had immature little Canadian boys (VE) reporting them to local authorities?
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April 26, 2014, 02:48:22 PM
 #2562

Surely allowing new investors to buy into the company is much worse than paying out dividends to existing customers.
This.  If the MSD investigation is serious/real enough to prevent divs being paid to existing shareholders, share trading should obviously be halted.  Has Ken's lawyer really advised him otherwise?  The legality of allowing some shares to trade while others are blocked is another question Ken clearly hasn't taken legal advice on.

surely I'm allowed my opinion to call BS on any alleged instigation (still haven't seen any proof)… Otherwise why would trading still be on going? Also, why are other companies trading without harassment?

No actual proof of any failed chip project or any ongoing chip project either. I still don't understand how can people still believe what ken is saying. How hard is to post a proof of an investigation or for an ongoing or failed project? If i recall correctly SP-Tech published their Hammer chip specifics and also some board specs. Aren't you guys tired of all the NDA lies from ken?

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April 26, 2014, 04:02:46 PM
 #2563

Lets just ask VE for proof of the complain he filed.
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April 26, 2014, 04:05:54 PM
 #2564

Aren't you guys tired of all the NDA lies from ken?

Ken hasn't said NDA in a long time. Ken has just be silent about all the juicy details of his own volition.
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April 26, 2014, 04:21:12 PM
 #2565

perhaps Ken and his entire staff do not yet realise that going to http://virtualminingcorp.com/  shows a ton of different products and none of these are actually for sale? The only product for sale is almost impossible to find and differentiate from all the other cancelled gear unless you have the direct link

Ken - its no surprise VMC cant sell more than a few dozen hashfast boards when the homepage of the site showcases a cancelled project that became obsolete months ago. (768GH/800W/$9000)

24" PCI-E cables with 16AWG wires and stripped ends - great for server PSU mods, best prices https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563461
No longer a wannabe - now an ASIC owner!
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April 26, 2014, 05:42:50 PM
 #2566

This is a really good point.  What is so difficult about bringing the website up to date?  Should this not be a priority?    Put me in charge for 24 hours please and I'll have a meeting to start the day, "Right, who's in charge of the website then?  You? Right.  I want it brought up to date and you've got until 3pm.  Right, who's in charge of shipping...?  Now get the MSD on the phone..."
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April 26, 2014, 06:04:20 PM
Last edit: April 26, 2014, 07:36:21 PM by WildFire.ca
 #2567

After looking at a few of those MSD investigations, I see for the most part company's got in too trouble when they were selling shares and then not doing what the shareholders were expecting them to do.  We are expecting to get our shares back and we are also expecting financials so we can see what has been done with our money. Ken is not doing what we want with our shares nor is he providing us with evidence of what has been happening with our money. If he is planning to register the shares as a Federally Covered Security then he needs to show them he has a lot more cash on hand then a normal security has to have on hand. This covert, just trust me CEO stuff is not going to fly with the SEC. As Federally Covered Security you need to start addressing these issues as a Federally Covered Security Provider. Ken if your waiting until the very last second before you file to start doing the stuff you are required to do as a Federally Covered Security it may not look so good to regulators. We have waited and trusted you with them for over 6 months now, you must understand why people are starting to get annoyed. I don't even have any plans to sell any of them I just want to be in possession of what I own. The whole idea about Bitcoin is not to trust other people with your money and most of us invested in Bitcoin due to this fact. You are holding the assets of people who do not wish you to hold them anymore. What we want are the financials, proof of Goxcoins and access to our shares or proof of why we can not have access to our shares. It's very simple.
http://www.investopedia.com/exam-guide/series-63/securities/federal-covered-securities.asp
http://www.investopedia.com/exam-guide/series-65/broker-dealers-securities-registration/state-authority-federal-covered-securities.asp
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-senior-security.htm

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JimmyJazz
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April 26, 2014, 06:28:10 PM
 #2568

This is a really good point.  What is so difficult about bringing the website up to date?  Should this not be a priority?    Put me in charge for 24 hours please and I'll have a meeting to start the day, "Right, who's in charge of the website then?  You? Right.  I want it brought up to date and you've got until 3pm.  Right, who's in charge of shipping...?  Now get the MSD on the phone..."

++++
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April 26, 2014, 06:58:50 PM
 #2569

I also think it should be a priority to update the website asap. Throw all the old stuff out and show the new mining hardware. It was only announced in this forum that there is a card with <$2/GH and not on the site as far as I know. This is not good. Wait a few weeks and the difficulty will be higher and people will have less incentive to actually buy the card. If the new card gets added, the price for the prospector card has to be corrected or it has to be taken of the shop. Nobody will pay 2000$ for 500 GH if they can get 750 GH for 1500$. This should be obvious.
I think, that if this gets taken care of and the logistic processes for shipping products are going to be optimized, we are on a good way.

All in all I appreciate the visible progress and the hard work thats getting put into this project.
minerpart
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April 26, 2014, 07:56:40 PM
 #2570

After looking at a few of those MSD investigations, I see for the most part company's got in too trouble when they were selling shares and then not doing what the shareholders were expecting them to do.

Can you list some of the ones you mention so I can have a look? Thanks.
minerpart
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April 26, 2014, 08:47:52 PM
 #2571

For anyone interested in the MSD investigation this is essential reading:

http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/AP-09-09.asp

I'd advise anyone to have a go reading through it slowly, it has some similarities to our case.

Some main points:

-Like the previously mentioned case it took 12months from the opening of the investigation until a ruling was made.
-Involves a CEO of a startup selling unregistered securities/shares to investors in MO.
-The ruling is that CEO is prohibited from issuing shares/must cease the share issue and pays a fine of $10k (max fine 'per violation') for breaching the MO securities law.
-States that the costs of the investigation will/may be charged to the defendant, depending on his excuses/explanations.



Apart from the issuing of unregistered shares the defendant is also found to have helped an agent and/or to have acted as an agent in the selling of unregistered securities in MO. There is also an additional finding that the CEO misled the investors by saying when he sold the shares that there was 'no risk involved'. I'm not sure if these would also entail a $10k fine per breach?

Two people who bought the shares have created the MSD complaint and the reason seems to be that they have had no return from their investment. One has asked for his investment money back (as had been promised as an option) but has not been given the money back. The CEO says the company is in financial difficulty. The MSD are not involving themselves in the issue of the return of the money and don't seem to be investigating whether this is a sham company or not - they are just solely looking at the Securities Laws that have been breached.

This lets us see the sort of issues the MSD will be looking at. IF they find 'securities have been issued' (grey area as we know) then our CEO is looking at a $10k fine (possibly for each breach that they find I'm not sure) plus covering the costs of the investigation. Ken would also (if the MSD think securities have been issued to residents of MO) be barred from issuing unregistered shares. So he would need to register them in the future or use a non regulated solution (such as Coloured Coins) if the MSD was happy with that solution.



I would say that the MSD seem to be a very thorough and professional outfit and also a fair one. They see a lot of cases through the year and they clearly make business-like cut and dry rulings on breeches of regulation. I'm confident they will rule sensibly in this case BUT having said that we may be the first crypto-currency/alt-security case they have seen. So I'm sure they will be finding this a very interesting case and may need to consult widely on it. My personal judgement would be that firstly these shares were offered world-wide not to MO residents in particular and second that they are not 'sold securities' in the traditional sense but crowd-funding in a digital currency. Crowd funding is OK in the US now right?

Whatever happens this shouldn't kill the company but it could lead to a very large fine and loss of money which we can't afford to lose out of the business. That could very easily mean the company looses it's place in the ever expanding mining market and we have to close due to lack of reinvestment funds. That would be tragic. Hundreds of investors WOULD then lose everything. So I really hope that the MSD take into account the effects a fine would have on a business in breach before deciding on the level that fine should be.

Any comments? Sorry for length of post.  



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April 26, 2014, 09:07:29 PM
 #2572

TOP OF THE POPS!!!

We just had a new entry at No 7 on Eligius!!!!



There is only 0.02TH/s in it between us and No 8!!! So do expect the positions to swing, but our 7th place looks solid long-term!

Great work at the datacentre Ken, keep up the progress, long way to go before we start making some decent money but you and the team are doing a good job with getting more machines online.
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April 26, 2014, 09:22:19 PM
 #2573

Aren't you guys tired of all the NDA lies from ken?

Ken hasn't said NDA in a long time. Ken has just be silent about all the juicy details of his own volition.

Because nobody asked him about the chip project. Please ask him and let's see what answer will you get. Why aren't people demanding more proof about all the uncertainties? It's YOUR money. Ask proof for MSD investigation, missing Gox coins and ongoing projects and cancelled projects. As far as i know nobody saw any other proof regarding how much was paid and how much was recovered from the eASIC deal until now. Can he claim NDA for a cancelled project?

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April 26, 2014, 09:48:43 PM
 #2574

Road Stress, you are just trying to shit stir again.  We really don't your help thank you very much as we are pretty good at doing that ourselves.  You are now just trolling this thread so please stop and go away.
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April 26, 2014, 09:51:29 PM
 #2575

Too many doubters on here. Do some research guys, stop with the conspiracy theories, give Ken a call, ask for a site visit. Cheer up for pete's sake.
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April 26, 2014, 09:58:12 PM
 #2576

Road Stress is only posting here to promote his own business.  How sad and transparent.
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April 26, 2014, 10:21:02 PM
 #2577

After looking at a few of those MSD investigations, I see for the most part company's got in too trouble when they were selling shares and then not doing what the shareholders were expecting them to do.
Can you list some of the ones you mention so I can have a look? Thanks.
Most of company's I was looking at got in trouble for not being registered as a broker-dealer and/or issuing some kind of financial product that they did not follow through on, and they for the most part the regulators only stepped in when someone complained about it(VE). There were no cases I could find where the company was doing what it promised to do, the investors were getting what they were promised (our shares) and then the state regulator issued a fine or ordered a cease and desist. I found a few of the company's got in to trouble for saying they were issuing an and not providing the investor with what they paid for and a few other cases were brought before regulators when it was found the CEO was out right lying. The real problem here is if Ken does get a cease and desist order we could never see our shares as he could be banned from ever issuing any security ever again. I wonder if they have any laws pertaining to re-issuing shares, as we already know there are laws against not issuing what was paid for.
I found each of these had a little bits in them that were relevant to our case.
http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/AP-12-04.asp
http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/AP-10-31d.asp
http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/AP-12-16.asp
http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/AP-12-10.asp
http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/AP-11-33a.asp

@ Ken Have you tried asking for an exemption. My next question is, do you even need one if you have not been issued a cease and desist order.
http://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2013/title-xxvi/chapter-409/section-409.2-203

After reading all of these securities outcomes I have decided to leave Bitcoin alone for a while and become a securities lawyer in Missouri. Cheesy

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WALLET




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WildFire.ca
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April 26, 2014, 10:26:40 PM
 #2578

TOP OF THE POPS!!!
We just had a new entry at No 7 on Eligius!!!!
There is only 0.02TH/s in it between us and No 8!!! So do expect the positions to swing, but our 7th place looks solid long-term!
Great work at the datacentre Ken, keep up the progress, long way to go before we start making some decent money but you and the team are doing a good job with getting more machines online.
1+

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minerpart
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April 26, 2014, 10:41:15 PM
 #2579

@ Ken Have you tried asking for an exemption. My next question is, do you even need one if you have not been issued a cease and desist order.
http://law.justia.com/codes/missouri/2013/title-xxvi/chapter-409/section-409.2-203

After reading all of these securities outcomes I have decided to leave Bitcoin alone for a while and become a securities lawyer in Missouri. Cheesy

+1

and +100 for the become a lawyer idea!! Maybe mining is the wrong business for us!
shaofis
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April 27, 2014, 01:07:58 AM
 #2580

Ken,

Did the DC go offline?

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1DJpsvnM7xTnQbWEhLYyCyfxQyxwupEzCa

Shao
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