[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[karsy]

Hey, guys I have been gone for some time what is the status on the shares?

No real news at this point, it's still ongoing. Ken has said Havelock / C-T would be a temporary measure before coloured coin or Counterparty support.
Has been cagey on Havelock as he is worried the same thing will happen as did Bitfunder.

Yeah, I get that though. Considering amount of death threats when bitfunder went down probably were insane.

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[dahsto]

Hello Ken,

I pre-ordered a Fast-Hash-One Silver 64 GH/s PCI-E Module (Order Reference AGWQBVSDM) -- placed on 2013-12-03, my status on the VMC website is still showing "Awaiting bank wire payment" and i have absolutely no answers to my messages from the customer support. What is going on ? I would like a refund now..

Thanks

[kslaughter]

Hello Ken,

I pre-ordered a Fast-Hash-One Silver 64 GH/s PCI-E Module (Order Reference AGWQBVSDM) -- placed on 2013-12-03, my status on the VMC website is still showing "Awaiting bank wire payment" and i have absolutely no answers to my messages from the customer support. What is going on ? I would like a refund now..

Thanks

You should be getting an answer this week from Customer Support.

[drasted]

Why does Ken think havelock is more likely to shut down than crypto-trade? What makes crypto-trade safer?

[noah tall]

Ken,
Please note that virtually every shareholder is asking for the shares to be listed on Havelock.
There is a reason for this - it is better for shareholders.
Please do what is right for shareholders. List on Havelock! Please!

No!  Havelock is a bad idea: 

We are already trading on CT,
No setup required,
No waste of Ken's time setting up an additional exchange.

Ken, just let us verify our shares and add them to the CT list.  Simple.

Sorry if I am offending potential day traders and arbitragers.  Go make (or lose) somewhere else.

[drawingthesun]

Ken,
Please note that virtually every shareholder is asking for the shares to be listed on Havelock.
There is a reason for this - it is better for shareholders.
Please do what is right for shareholders. List on Havelock! Please!

No!  Havelock is a bad idea:  

We are already trading on CT,
No setup required,
No waste of Ken's time setting up an additional exchange.

Ken, just let us verify our shares and add them to the CT list.  Simple.

Sorry if I am offending potential day traders and arbitragers.  Go make (or lose) somewhere else.

I disagree completely. Havelock have reached out to Ken and said they will take care of share verification.

This would save Ken a lot of time.

You're offending shareholders that want an exchange that has enough volume to service 10,000,000 shares. CryptoTrade is a volume minow and the shares will drop to 0.000001 on CryptoTrade because there just cannot be enough buyers.

In addition to this CryptoTrade is fundamentally broken as it shows 700,000 outstanding shares when Ken has issued less than 300,000. I would prefer to not use a broken platform.

To me it sounds like you're a CryptoTrade bagholder who picked up UKYO shares on the cheap and are now very scared you'll be stuck on your own at CryptoTrade whilst the big boys move onto a real platform.

Ken has done 5 minutes work on CryptoTrade, he set up a security and issued <300,000 shares. It's not a lot of effort so far. The real meat is getting the old shareholders up and running so time investment to CryptoTrade and Havelock are roughly the same.

EDIT: If Ken still holds onto 100,000+ shares himself, it would be in his best interest to go to Havelock as he has a much better chance of getting ROI on those coin.

[noah tall]

... bagholder ...

I see you have contempt for AMC shareholders.  Why would anybody respect your wishes.

... ROI ...

Moron.

[drawingthesun]

... bagholder ...

I see you have contempt for AMC shareholders.  Why would anybody respect your wishes.

... ROI ...

Moron.

Actually it's the majority wishes to be on Havelock right now, you're one of the few standing in the way.

Yes ROI, Ken has personal shares he bought at a high price (similar to myself) and if I and Ken are to get even a bitcoin 1:1 ROI on those shares only Havelock is the answer.

How is that being moronic?

[noah tall]

How is that being moronic?

Moronic because you want Ken to waste time and energy putting shares up on 2 exchanges to facilitate day traders and arbitragers.  Fell free to list your own shares on a 2nd exchange with a pass-through.

Ken should concentrate on building value which includes sales and mining.  If these 2 activities succeed, share price will go up.

[bigdude]

Share price wont go up much if anything on CT ... there are NO buyers. No traders. No btc

There is NO way shareholders are better off on Crypto Trade

And at this stage, Ken has work to do no matter what for the shares to be listed. So better to do the work properly and get on Havelock

[drasted]

So can we get an update on why another self imposed deadline was missed? What went wrong? What unexpected delay occured?

[drawingthesun]

How is that being moronic?

Moronic because you want Ken to waste time and energy putting shares up on 2 exchanges to facilitate day traders and arbitragers.  Fell free to list your own shares on a 2nd exchange with a pass-through.

Ken should concentrate on building value which includes sales and mining.  If these 2 activities succeed, share price will go up.

I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that I want arbitrage? The last thing I will ever do is arbitrage between a mega low volume exchange and Havelock.

No no it's not wasted time and energy is it you fool? I already have shown that the amount of energy that already has gone into setting up CryptoTrade is piss all. He issued <300,000 and that is all. Ken hasn't even started the hard work yet so lets get us on Havelock before he invests time into the lowest volume bitcoin exchange.

Perhaps you can beg Ken to move your worthless CryptoTrade shares over to Havelock?

Ken should concentrate on miners, our ASIC, sales, website and shares. Now Ken is waiting on 5,000 boards this is the best time to focus on shares.

[Effayy]

I'm sorry I have no idea why this is even an issue at the moment.

The best possible solution would be to have a decentralized system that is widely accepted and used for our shares to reside.  Since that option is currently not available, we have a choice between 2 centralized exchanges.

CT have no volume. I mean literall NO volume. Not just ActM shares, I mean they barely trade in any security on that site. It would be a waste to host our shares there in the meantime.  Even if you intend to hold those shares long, what if by some bad turn of events you would need to sell in order to get coin quickly? Even that would be impossible on a website that hardly deals in any volume.

Havelock on the other hand do appear to be the current go-to location for commodity exchange.  They hold multiple securities, all of whom do decent volume.

What is the concern?  Does havelock have KYC/AML identification rules in place? Other than potentially becoming the next BitFunder (which to be honest I feel CT has as much of a chance of that seeing as they may not even be making profit).

My vote would be Havelock in the meantime, but obviously it would be best with an accepted and popular decentralized solution in the long-term.

[drawingthesun]

but obviously it would be best with an accepted and popular decentralized solution in the long-term.

This is true, and I am sure the many securities on Havelock would love to be on a decentralized system in the mean time but they are not. I agree with you that Havelock is the best choice.

Here are some facts:

- Decentralization is very hard. A lot of you are becoming complacent thinking that we can easily and without too much effort securely decentralise things like asset trading. Satoshi spent several years working on Bitcoin and there are only a handful of people on Earth that have created fully decentralised systems. Satoshi and Bram are the first two that come to mind. This decentralized asset trading system isn't going to be a walk in the park and I would want the system to be live for many months before moving over millions of dollars worth of assets.

- Most people agree with my point above simply due to the fact that most assets are listed on Havelock and not on CC or Counterparty. Once they are ready I am sure they will move. In this regard (where to list our shares lets FOLLOW the herd for once).

- If Ken wants to wait until the utopian ideal of decentralized asset trading systems are live, we might have to wait months. If we want to see how they go for a while to see what vulnerabilities are discovered because we don't want to lose all of our shares we could easily be waiting until early 2015.

- The shareholders including myself are tired of the endless excuses. There exists a high volume exchange ready to take us on and is arguably more secure and better run than CryptoTrade. Let's get listed on Havelock please.

- Regarding volume, many of us want to sell our shares and I know about a million shares want to get out for at least 2,500 bitcoin. I am 100% certain CrytoTrade will never see anywhere near that much volume. Lack of volume will create a share price of 0.000001 easily once 10 million shares are listed and about 10 bitcoin worth of buyers. It will be a blood bath on Havelock but a blackhole on CryptoTade.

- No one that wants to preserve our share value wants to be on CryptoTrade. I can only assume the CryptoTrade fans are either 1)shills 2)bought UKYO shares and are acting in self interest 3)are trolls.

[bigdude]

- No one that wants to preserve our share value wants to be on CryptoTrade. I can only assume the CryptoTrade fans are either 1)shills 2)bought UKYO shares and are acting in self interest 3)are trolls.

Couldn't agree more.

[Speediegonzalez]

Going to put in my two cents and jump on the Havelock train. It has volume... CT does not

Either way it is just a stop-gap solution. Maybe we should put it to another vote?

[tslimx]

havelock plx

[drasted]

Arguing about which exchange is kind of pointless if ken just keeps putting off working on it.

[drawingthesun]

Either way it is just a stop-gap solution.

It certainly is a stop-gap. But that stop-gap could last half a year or more.

Ken's waiting on the decentralized option reminds me of people waiting for decentralised filesharing. People had to wait about 3 years for Bittorrent.

Secure, tested decentralisation is hard and special. Even if CC was working tomorrow I would want to see some others on the system for several months before we jumped on board. The sad fact is the most likely outcome of the first decentralized asset trading system will be utter failure where everyone gets all their dividends and shares stolen. Satoshi was very special and very unique to release a system that worked very well. Most of the time grand ideas fall flat on their face.

[drawingthesun]

Arguing about which exchange is kind of pointless if ken just keeps putting off working on it.

If every shareholder just keeps posting about Havelock eventually he might get the hint.