Bitcoin Forum
February 19, 2020, 08:30:15 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.19.0.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Login to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution.
Pages: « 1 ... 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 [89] 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 ... 272 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]  (Read 629453 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
drawingthesun
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 1002


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 08:39:45 AM
 #1761

if all of us are here for the long term and believe in ken,we will choose option 1,but not all of us ,i think a lot of people want to out.

If they want out they need to be allowed to trade their shares and leave.

Option 2 will spell quick doom for the company, even myself who leans towards wanting out would never choose option 2 because it just kills the company. The company needs to be able to maintain a warchest.

Option 2 just means we mine for a few months until we die and we all get back a few satoshi per share. Option 1 is long term thinking.
100% First Deposit Bonus Instant Withdrawals Best Odds 10+ Sports Since 2014 No KYC Asked Play Now
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1582144215
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1582144215

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1582144215
Reply with quote  #2

1582144215
Report to moderator
1582144215
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1582144215

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1582144215
Reply with quote  #2

1582144215
Report to moderator
minerpart
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 250

IIIIII====II====IIIIII


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 01:27:50 PM
 #1762

We have two options for reinvestment:

1 - Mine with hardware using 100% of funds until it ROI (This should also be tax free up until ROI because we are recovering a deduction in funds) and then after split earnings in two, first half for reinvestment and the other half for dividends (At this point tax applies)

2 - Split in two right away.

I prefer option 1 because it means that the company will always keep it's bank up before money flows outside to us.

If we start getting money back straight away we could end up where Ken is thousands of Bitcoin short when we need the money for our own chip.

Please discuss.

This is really interesting and we have discussed it before.
Is  there a mathematical formula that could be used? Let's have the numbers decide this.

So for example:

1) If over the next 6months we reinvest 100% of profits into the business then revert to the 50/50 split what will we earn in dividends in year 1?
2) If we have 50/50 split (reinvest and dividends) permanently over the next 12months what will we earn in dividends in year 1?

By working this out we can decide what hodlers will make over the next 12months and if 100% or 50/50 is the way to go.

My view is that CEO's are supposed to look after Hodlers. That's what dividends are all about. Whatever maximizes our dividends in year one is the best course of action for the shareholders. Especially in this very competitive market.

In terms of share price, a higher total dividend payout in year 1 will actually lead to a higher share price. That's because Long term hodlers will be more inclined to hold for the full year (so fewer sellers to meet buying demand). Also people will see the shares as a good invest and will buy them knowing that a very good dividend is on it's way.
drawingthesun
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 1002


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 02:04:41 PM
 #1763

Minerpart. I'm really drunk at the moment so I can't be too detailed. But I made a simulator in MATLAB ages ago for activemining and shareholders were always better off when money was reinvested as soon as possible.

The more coin that leaves the operation back to shareholders sooner always made the shareholders worse off in the long run.
thefunkybits
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 03:42:23 PM
Last edit: April 05, 2014, 05:08:45 PM by thefunkybits
 #1764

Minerpart. I'm really drunk at the moment so I can't be too detailed. But I made a simulator in MATLAB ages ago for activemining and shareholders were always better off when money was reinvested as soon as possible.

The more coin that leaves the operation back to shareholders sooner always made the shareholders worse off in the long run.

In Ken's original post in one of the old ACTM threads he states that reinvestment/dividends will be 50/50


edit: We're supposed to have 60-100 TH/s online right now, whats going on Ken?? (I'm sure you're working hard and fast, but we've been waiting on 100TH for a few weeks now)
minerpart
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 250

IIIIII====II====IIIIII


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 03:56:22 PM
Last edit: April 05, 2014, 04:10:06 PM by minerpart
 #1765

Sure we knew that (50/50 split) last time we talked this  over too but that was when we were expecting to start hashing in Q4 of last year I think.

Ken is always open to our ideas,  let's talk more about it.

D t s  you done OK for being drunk - but don't go  buying any Neo bee shares, remember what happened last time you got drunk and spent all your cash on stocks (he bought ActM!)  Wink
klondike_bar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1918
Merit: 1001

ASIC Wannabe


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 04:03:52 PM
 #1766

Minerpart. I'm really drunk at the moment so I can't be too detailed. But I made a simulator in MATLAB ages ago for activemining and shareholders were always better off when money was reinvested as soon as possible.

The more coin that leaves the operation back to shareholders sooner always made the shareholders worse off in the long run.

In Ken's original post in one of the old ACTM threads he states that reinvestment/dividends will be 50/50

edit: We're supposed to have 60-100 TH/s online right now, whats going on Ken??

50/50 makes sense. That hopefully is enough that the re-investment is sufficient to maintain a constant bitcoin income by increasing the hashpower at roughly the same rate as difficulty rises.

it took a few days to get to 10TH. I cant see 100TH being deployed in any less than another 5-10 business days (it probably takes a full day to load up a rack, and get 20 boards wired and cooled properly for another 10TH - this estimate would be for 2-3 people working together) In order to actually have 100TH by the ned of next week would likely require 4-5 people working together 8hrs/day

24" PCI-E cables with 16AWG wires and stripped ends - great for server PSU mods, best prices https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563461
No longer a wannabe - now an ASIC owner!
drawingthesun
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 1002


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 04:04:40 PM
 #1767

In Ken's original post in one of the old ACTM threads he states that reinvestment/dividends will be 50/50

I fear this is the case, I really think that the split should happen after Ken has made ROI on the chips from hashfast. This gives the company better chance to acquire new hardware sooner and speed up R&D.

edit: We're supposed to have 60-100 TH/s online right now, whats going on Ken??

Yeah I have been excited to see the increase over the past few days, but was hoping for a quicker deployment than 5TH/s per day. However I'm glad this progress has been made.

Ken is always open to our ideas,  let's talk more about it.

Certainly. I might make a newer more up to date model in Matlab or something over the next few days if I get a lot of my assignment out the way with.

D t s  you done OK for being drunk - but don't go  buying any Neo bee shares, remember what happened last time you got drunk and spent all your cash on stocks (he bought ActM!)  Wink

Haha no drunk shares from me! I have my remaining coin in JustDice for the time being. :p
Flashman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 500


Hodl!


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 04:56:07 PM
 #1768

50/50 makes sense. That hopefully is enough that the re-investment is sufficient to maintain a constant bitcoin income by increasing the hashpower at roughly the same rate as difficulty rises.

it took a few days to get to 10TH. I cant see 100TH being deployed in any less than another 5-10 business days (it probably takes a full day to load up a rack, and get 20 boards wired and cooled properly for another 10TH - this estimate would be for 2-3 people working together) In order to actually have 100TH by the ned of next week would likely require 4-5 people working together 8hrs/day

That's what I'd like to see, an endeavor to maintain a roughly constant BTC amount per share, even though it will be a bit "sawtoothy" due to add hardware, lose to diff etc on a week to week basis. So by the time BTC is in multiple figures I get enough to maintain my champagne and caviar beer and chips lifestyle.

Yeah I have been excited to see the increase over the past few days, but was hoping for a quicker deployment than 5TH/s per day. However I'm glad this progress has been made

I think it's a reasonable pace and will probably speed up a bit with experience. Sure you can throw 5TH online in an evening if everything all goes well, but you'll probably have wires everywhere and tinker with it for a week afterwards, maybe take it down and redo something a couple of weeks later, etc etc, hobby tinkerer style.. BUT that ain't the game here, it's double check everything, dot the i's cross the t's manage the cables neatly, label everything, document everything, make the whole setup scalable... a bit more effort in the beginning to ensure trouble free long term operation. Then there's stuff like cgminer being a bitch and USB cables glitching out etc, random annoyances that tend to slow you down... I take my machines down for whatever and I'm DELIGHTED if I get them back up and running properly inside half an hour.

TL;DR See Spot run. Run Spot run. .... .... Freelance interweb comedian, for teh lulz >>> 1MqAAR4XkJWfDt367hVTv5SstPZ54Fwse6

Bitcoin Custodian: Keeping BTC away from weak heads since Feb '13, adopter of homeless bitcoins.
klondike_bar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1918
Merit: 1001

ASIC Wannabe


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 05:46:34 PM
 #1769

Weekly Update 3/26/2014

AMC Mining:

We have completed the signing of our lease for our ~3,700 sq feet datacenter.  The datacenter has 2 480 Volt 250 amp 3 phase power supplies, plus a backup generator which supplies the same amount, the air conditioning has it own power supply.  we are in the process of bringing this datacenter online with ~100 TH of mining equipment.  We also expect to increase to 200 TH within 4 weeks after bringing up the first 100 TH.  The datacenters power and air conditioning can easily support up to 800 TH of mining equipment.  We are planning on adding 100 TH per month until we reach the maximum above.

Shares:
We want to get share trading up and running on Colored Coins as soon as it is safe and legal to do so.


Weekly Update 4/2/2014

Datacenter:

The datacenter should be coming on line this week, barring any unforeseen problems.  We will be bring up 1 rack at a time.  We will have 4 racks in this phase with ~60 TH/s coming on line.  We will be adding additional step-down transformers to bring the total up to 100 TH/s after we get the first phase running.  The next phase will be to bring the datacenter up to 200 TH/s after the first month of running the first phase.

Shares:
Next week I will start transferring shares to CT so our investors can start trading.

it sounds like it is expected to take a few weeks to reach 100TH, and another month to reach 200TH. That means about 5TH is to be added per business day if all goes smoothly

24" PCI-E cables with 16AWG wires and stripped ends - great for server PSU mods, best prices https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563461
No longer a wannabe - now an ASIC owner!
JimmyJazz
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 207
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 06:16:12 PM
 #1770

Its really going to need to be much faster if we stand a chance of keeping up with difficulty.
VinceSamios
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


View Profile WWW
April 05, 2014, 07:27:37 PM
 #1771

Seems like we're gaining hashrate again... 11.5TH +

The Happy Clappy Bitcoin Chappy - http://twitter.com/vincesamios
minerpart
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 250

IIIIII====II====IIIIII


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 07:33:59 PM
 #1772

I agree Jimmy.  We need to put everything we have into getting more machines and more machines and more machines hashing. We can't do that by taking profits out of the company this early.  

I see either short term gain for us, say six months before difficulty over takes us and we die a slow death unable to hold our ground.  OR I see  serious reinvesting taking us  to a level where we can comfortably hold our ground AND pay superb dividends - not just for six months but literally for years.

Think about this guys: if we can first get to 2% of network (a BIG task) then hold that for the next 2 years what would we be making in mining revenue each month if BTC is then at 10k.

I think EVERYONE holding shares should do this calculation for themselves and realise this is POSSIBLE for us if we put everything into reinvesting for now.

72x10,000x30

I make that 21.6 Million dollars a month.

And what happens if we hold 4% of network and BTC is at 25k in two years??



MilkyWayMasta
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 221
Merit: 100



View Profile
April 05, 2014, 07:50:37 PM
 #1773


And what happens if we hold 4% of network and BTC is at 25k in two years??


Let's say dividends are 0.0002 BTC per share per month, how would that compare to the share price?

DISCIPLINA — The First Blockchain For HR & Education
From core developers of Cardano, PoS minting, unique Web Of Trust & Privacy algorithms. Be the first, join us!
  WEBSITE  TELEGRAM  ANN  BOUNTY  LINKEDIN  WHITEPAPER  Referral Program 5%
JoTheKhan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 07:57:03 PM
 #1774


And what happens if we hold 4% of network and BTC is at 25k in two years??


Let's say dividends are 0.0002 BTC per share per month, how would that compare to the share price?

I would be more than content with that div/share price. That's a really high div/share IMHO.
BitSwe
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 38
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 08:03:49 PM
 #1775


And what happens if we hold 4% of network and BTC is at 25k in two years??


Let's say dividends are 0.0002 BTC per share per month, how would that compare to the share price?

For that to come true, ActM would need at least 4% of total hashrate. Assuming 50% is payed out in divs and that all mining expenses are covered by ActM's sales.
Once .0025 per share is payed out and Ken recieve divs on his 15'000'000 shares we need 9% to keep that div up.

I would not bet my pension on that to happen.

If we can even keep 1% we will get .000054 (for 10 million shares) or .0000216 (for 25 million shares) per month assuming 50% payout and no mining expenses.

EDIT: 1% hashrate = 1080 mined BTC / month.
1080 / 10,000,000 x 50% = .000054
1080 / 25,000,000 x 50% = .0000216
MilkyWayMasta
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 221
Merit: 100



View Profile
April 05, 2014, 08:10:26 PM
 #1776


And what happens if we hold 4% of network and BTC is at 25k in two years??


Let's say dividends are 0.0002 BTC per share per month, how would that compare to the share price?

For that to come true, ActM would need at least 4% of total hashrate. Assuming 50% is payed out in divs and that all mining expenses are covered by ActM's sales.
Once .0025 per share is payed out and Ken recieve divs on his 15'000'000 shares we need 9% to keep that div up.

I would not bet my pension on that to happen.

If we can even keep 1% we will get .000054 (for 10 million shares) or .0000216 (for 25 million shares) per month assuming 50% payout and no mining expenses.

EDIT: 1% hashrate = 1080 mined BTC / month.
1080 / 10,000,000 x 50% = .000054
1080 / 25,000,000 x 50% = .0000216


What happens to the share price when the 0.0025 divs are almost paid out and the other 15 mil shares start getting divs?

DISCIPLINA — The First Blockchain For HR & Education
From core developers of Cardano, PoS minting, unique Web Of Trust & Privacy algorithms. Be the first, join us!
  WEBSITE  TELEGRAM  ANN  BOUNTY  LINKEDIN  WHITEPAPER  Referral Program 5%
BitSwe
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 38
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 08:13:56 PM
 #1777

What happens to the share price when the 0.0025 divs are almost paid out and the other 15 mil shares start getting divs?

I would imagine the share price will slowly go down to 40% of its previous value over time. Beginning around when half of the divs (0.0012 ish) are payed out.
Pure speculation though, but mathematically our divs will be cut to 40%, so I'd imagine that would apply on share price as well.
Simon Templar
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 42
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 08:27:07 PM
Last edit: April 05, 2014, 08:40:06 PM by Simon Templar
 #1778

Let's also consider hardware sales if we want to speculate on divs.  One of the main challenges is how quickly ActiveMining can get the farm up to 1% of the network.  If only 100TH can be added every month, it would take 10 months to get up to 1PH.  How high will the difficulty have grown in ten months?  JimmyJazz is correct, Ken needs to find a way of accelerating the process for getting up to the desired hash rate.  The farm needs to grow at 100TH+ per week.
JimmyJazz
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 207
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 08:52:48 PM
 #1779

It really is just the first hurdle of getting to a decent hashrate. It shouldn't be hard to maintain with the 50/50 reinvestment in place (could initially go even higher)
thefunkybits
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000


View Profile
April 05, 2014, 08:57:08 PM
Last edit: April 05, 2014, 09:17:10 PM by thefunkybits
 #1780

The farm needs to grow at 100TH+ per week.

With access to 3 PH in the coming month or two, I think it would be a bad business decision not to put up at least 1 PH by that point. especially if the plan is to solo mine ASAP like Ken has stated. Once all of our pre-order customers have been dealt with there will no longer be a conflict of interest to mine with everything we've got and put more focus on the shareholders.
Pages: « 1 ... 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 [89] 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 ... 272 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!