[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[shaofis]

No you haven't, I have been waiting 9 weeks for my refund and despite a vague promise to look into it I have yet to to receive a refund. You are a muppet.
No, I am a muppet for believing this scam in the first place.

You WILL be hearing from the Office of the  Attorney general's Consumer protection Division in Jefferson County quite soon (if not already)

I don't know the timelines... but I'd say you are welcome to report to who ever. If Ken has done as he has said he'll have proof that it's been mailed and can put it to bed pretty quick.

I sincerely hope you get your refund ASAP. These types of claims are probably the worst Black Eye that Ken and company can receive. I hope he understand that responding to customer requests such as this should be a priority and if he's busy with engineering decisions that one of the others on his staff should have some ability to take care of operational issues while he's away.

Despite all of the delays... I hope ActM/VMC can recall the community backlash of BFL. Delays are understandable and explainable but remember your customer base.

[1714805859]

1714805859

[Bargraphics]

Reposting a comment without the giant spammy text. The concern of customers receiving refunds is legitimate.

This was already posted in the unmoderated thread, but I think it's relevant so I'll re-post it here.
VMC's rating was demoted from B to E, because of refunds being ignored and no products on the horizon.
I can't blame them on the "no product on the horizon", but refunds being ignored can't be good for business.

Ken, can you address this?

We have processed refunds this week and mailed out checks.  With the volume of refunds being processed, we are running behind.

No you haven't, I have been waiting 9 weeks for my refund and despite a vague promise to look into it I have yet to to receive a refund. You are a muppet.
No, I am a muppet for believing this scam in the first place.

You WILL be hearing from the Office of the  Attorney general's Consumer protection Division in Jefferson County quite soon (if not already)

Did you try to PM Ken on here with the details of your order. It just seems odd everyone else is getting refunds but you.

[zumzero]

We are expecting to recover most of the eASIC NRE.

I would like to examine this statement further and demonstrate why it is essential that Ken hires a professional PR person who can take Ken's words and translate them into something which is clear and concise and is not vague and open to interpretation.  This, in my opinion, is a problem and partly why ActM has a poor reputation as Ken's vagueness breeds speculation.

Due to the unfortunate use of the word 'expecting', Ken's statement would ring true if the following hypothetical were also true;  "eAsic and ActMs' business relationship has failed and Ken's lawyer has told him that if they pursue legal action to recover the $1,000,000 they have a good chance of winning and recouping over 50% of the NRE paid."

I'm not saying the above is true, although it might be, however if a professional PR person is infinitely more qualified than I, then think how good it could be if I can offer this simple alternative in just a few seconds?

"While the eAsic deal never saw fruition, both parties have amicably agreed to part company and eAsic have agreed to refund part of the NRE.  That exact figure is still being negotiated and we are confident the final sum will be in excess of 50% of the initial $1,000,000 paid.  Shareholders will be informed as soon as we know that exact figure and also when the funds have been received."

[funkymunky]

Firstly I apologise if i am pointing the finger without warrant here.

But.

Has anybody including Ken verified this requested refund is legitimate.
If this is a real request rather than yet another Troll account then sorry Magsy, it's just because there appears to be an ongoing campaign against this company.

It's just that every single post by Magsy - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=219397;sa=showPosts who joined in January 14, 2014 is negative about VMC/ActM.
What strikes me especially as odd is their first post on the 15th Jan asking about shipping, then going on to 16th Feb about having already cancelled their order 3 months prior.




9     Bitcoin / Custom hardware / Re: [VMC] Official Virtual Mining Corporation Discussion    on: February 06, 2014, 10:27:34 PM
I requested a refund in November. Am still awaiting my money nearly 2 months later. Customer service is terrible zero communication on this issue. I fear my money is lost and this has been a scam from the outset.

I had to register on this forum and PM Kenneth directly for answers but still, there's no definitive answer on where or when my refund is going to materialise. I have already lost a lot of money on this deal.




10     Other / Beginners & Help / Vitrualmining corp shipping dates    on: January 15, 2014, 12:39:00 AM
Does anyone know when the new shipping dates will be?
the website did show 31-dec-13 but it has changed

[minerpart]

We are expecting to recover most of the eASIC NRE.

I would like to examine this statement further and demonstrate.....

You are way off. This deal with its grand press release which came to nothing is potentially very embarrassing for this SC firm with it's unblemished global reputation. They will not sanction any press or news release from Ken regarding it and will want it firmly swept under the carpet. I would suggest you delete your post as it is potentially damaging to the company and Ken's on-going negotiations. Baseless talk about suing this ex-partner is not exactly a smart line to introduce to the thread.

[adameb]

Doesn't it make sense to just take the refunded NRE money, throw it into Gox, buy back our BTC at the same price as IPO, then pay it out immediately if Gox withdrawals actually materialize? Naturally Ken should fold the company afterwards.

Sure, it might just be a small chance that actually works.  But I like my chances of coming close to breaking even, BTC-wise, there waaaaaaaay better than through hardware/mining at this point.

[ActM Thread]

We are expecting to recover most of the eASIC NRE.

I would like to examine this statement further and demonstrate why it is essential that Ken hires a professional PR person who can take Ken's words and translate them into something which is clear and concise and is not vague and open to interpretation.  This, in my opinion, is a problem and partly why ActM has a poor reputation as Ken's vagueness breeds speculation.

Due to the unfortunate use of the word 'expecting', Ken's statement would ring true if the following hypothetical were also true;  "eAsic and ActMs' business relationship has failed and Ken's lawyer has told him that if they pursue legal action to recover the $1,000,000 they have a good chance of winning and recouping over 50% of the NRE paid."

I'm not saying the above is true, although it might be, however if a professional PR person is infinitely more qualified than I, then think how good it could be if I can offer this simple alternative in just a few seconds?

"While the eAsic deal never saw fruition, both parties have amicably agreed to part company and eAsic have agreed to refund part of the NRE.  That exact figure is still being negotiated and we are confident the final sum will be in excess of 50% of the initial $1,000,000 paid.  Shareholders will be informed as soon as we know that exact figure and also when the funds have been received."

The eASIC deal did not "fail" - Ken did not move forward with it and it never materialized after the NRE was paid. He "haulted" the project due to competition and BTC price. Once BTC price did its huge jump he tried to figure out the best way to continue the project with a full-custom 28 but his RTL did not work for that. He then proceeded to purchase the People's ASIC IP who already had a 55nm project that was at tape out and RTL that was proven to work through initial testing and gate level simulation. A choice had to be made with regards to sticking with the backend design company that did the 55nm or continueing on with eASIC due to them already having the NRE. Ken seems to have went with the initial 55nm backend design company and is seeking a refund of whatever was not used out of the eASIC NRE.

That's basically where we are now.

[zumzero]

I am fully aware that the deal did not fail.  If you re-read my post you will notice I used a hypothetical situation formed from speculation and reading between the lines in order to demonstrate the necessity for a professional PR person to report official announcements on Ken's behalf.  With Ken you'll notice he keeps his answers short and the problem with that is it leaves us guessing, all the time, about what he actually meant.  His posts almost always follow with questions seeking confirmation of what he meant and this is far from ideal.  To make matters worse when he doesn't respond we all end up having a go at filling in the gaps which causes a lot of unnecessary conflict in the thread which doesn't look good.  When speculating many of us tend to lean toward the bleaker possibilities which shouldn't be dismissed just because they are perceived to interfere with the company image. Just take a look at wasubii's last post as a prime example of a shareholder who's faith in the company has clearly dwindled due to poor communication.  This can all be avoided and many benefits would be seen if we continue to impress upon Ken the need for a professional PR person to come on board.

Together, the shareholders helped restructure the company, they eventually convinced Ken to issue regular updates and have finally got a troll free thread.  Once things start ramping up, Ken is going to need all the help he can get and when products start shipping it will be too late if we still don't have this role filled.

[knybe]

is it just me or does no one in here realize that WE ARE NOT HASHING and from the looks of it we won't be hashing until sometime next fall…  IF AT ALL.

Why you all continue spinning and discussing this failure is beyond me.

it's done.

For the first real time since October\November 2013, we are on track to get a >30% difficulty adjustment.

EDIT: pardon me for being the Voice of Reason.

another EDIT: and you all do realize we still have no proof that we own shares in this company and that fact is looking worse and worse everyday.

[shadallion]

is it just me or does no one in here realize that WE ARE NOT HASHING and from the looks of it we won't be hashing until sometime next fall…  IF AT ALL.

Why you all continue spinning and discussing this failure is beyond me.

it's done.

For the first real time since October\November 2013, we are on track to get a >30% difficulty adjustment.

EDIT: pardon me for being the Voice of Reason.

another EDIT: and you all do realize we still have no proof that we own shares in this company and that fact is looking worse and worse everyday.

It DOES strain credulity to think that almost a year later, ActiveMining still doesn't have any hardware.  

Ken you seriously need to list our shares on Crytpo-Trade.  You did it easily enough when you deemed it urgent and in your own best interests (re: Ukyo's shares) but now suddenly you're waiting for approval from some lawyer?

kynbe's point is well taken - we are basically standing here with our dicks in the wind.  We theorhetically have shares of ownership but with no control over those - and no dividends being paid out - it's all just talk.  Words are wind.  

[knybe]

yeah like it's great to chitchat and pipe dream all the chip dimensions and the hash rates and the boards and the vendors and the makers and the blah blah blah of who said what and what the lawyers are gonna do and eASIC nonsense,

BUT

until Ken shows some kind of good faith move, and immediately… I only see this thing ending one way: BADLY.


EDIT: all I know is that this operation is following, almost to a Tee, the same pattern of other bitcoin related failures/cons/scams…

EDIT2: good faith move for me would be (I'll start a list):

• 1. images of paper work i.e. receipts, contracts, etc. or better yet images of boards or chips or wafers.
  
  
• 2. shares on CT made available.
  

feel free to add to this list please.

[zumzero]

@knybe.  So are we or are we not to discuss this failure?  I thought you said this failure is over.  Either go back and correct your first post or your second one so that there is at least some continuity in what you are saying.

It's one thing to vent and that's fine but try and not call it a scam please.

@shadallion.  Colored Coins (Chroma Wallet) is just around the corner.  I expect there to be some exciting news within the next two weeks regarding our trading options.

[knybe]

...It's one thing to vent and that's fine but try and not call it a scam please.

ACTM is following suit to every other failure I've seen in this "business." no communication, no product, lots of failed deadlines, LIES, dramatic changes of original plan… nothing ever coming to fruition.

All I'm asking for is something, anything from Ken. After all there is no NDA with eASIC anymore and there is no need at all for secrecy.

[knybe]

I expect there to be some exciting news within the next two weeks™ regarding our trading options.

FIFY

[zumzero]

FIFY

Hi Ken,

I am struggling to keep optomistic at the moment.  Do you have any words that will make me feel better about our situation?

This certainly is a rollercoaster of emotion but in light of the recent news about Missouri Securities Division I am feely pretty despondent.

I don't think the MSD has any jurisdiction over AMC in Belize, but I will have to wait until I talk with the lawyer on Monday or Tuesday to be sure. 

Are you likely to delay the shares being listed due to being approached by the MSD?  Are you concerned yourself or are you confident this won't effect he business?

I want to list the shares ASAP; however, I just got a PM from killerstorm saying that colored coin may be ready in two weeks.  I am confident that we will work through the MSD problem and it won't effect the business long term.

How do you feel about some of he long term supports now suggesting this is a scam?  Don't you want to issue evidence to prove them wrong?

How could it be a scam, scammer's don't pay our ~1 Million of there cash.  We are here everyday working hard on the business to make it successful, we are thinking everyday about how to make a profit for our investors.  Business is sometimes not easy, lots of competition, lot of changes and we can see in the drop in bitcoin prices this last week. 

It's not as though I am looking to sell because I don't think the price would be high enough, I just think if we could get these shares listed then everyone would stop focussing on this issue on we would all start talking about the core business instead. This would certainly change the mood.

I understand.

[kleeck]

...It's one thing to vent and that's fine but try and not call it a scam please.

ACTM is following suit to every other failure I've seen in this "business." no communication, no product, lots of failed deadlines, LIES, dramatic changes of original plan… nothing ever coming to fruition.

All I'm asking for is something, anything from Ken. After all there is no NDA with eASIC anymore and there is no need at all for secrecy.

Communication has been good. Many securities do not get weekly updates. Ken responds to many PMs and you can call him on the phone. Within the weekly updates we have had detailed specs of the 55nm with ETA and recently more general figures for the 28nm offering. I'd say two of your three complaints are pretty questionable.

Failed deadlines is pretty spot on. Granted, the nExtreme deadlines were "aborted" due to changing technology to something more competitive but I'd rather not dress it up. We all expected a product before the end of 2013 and are now waiting until six months into 2014. It is what it is.

[knybe]

whatever, just trying to pry the rose colored spectacles off.

As far as I'm concerned this company and Ken haven't proven themselves worthy.

The minute they do, I'll be the loudest cheerleader on the block...

[minerpart]

Can we have less of the FIFY nonsense? We are supposed to be behaving like adults here.

[MilkyWayMasta]

is it just me or does no one in here realize that WE ARE NOT HASHING and from the looks of it we won't be hashing until sometime next fall…  IF AT ALL.

Why you all continue spinning and discussing this failure is beyond me.

it's done.

For the first real time since October\November 2013, we are on track to get a >30% difficulty adjustment.

EDIT: pardon me for being the Voice of Reason.

another EDIT: and you all do realize we still have no proof that we own shares in this company and that fact is looking worse and worse everyday.

We should be mining by May if we get the 55nm chips in mid-April.

[SebastianJu]

If eASIC is 5-10 times as expensive as the other choice then yes it would make sense to forego the eASIC NRE cost and go with another company. I assume Ken wanted to go with eASIC but they simply were not competitive with their 28nm Full-Custom pricing and likely made Ken go with certain Fabs/Packages at a premium.

I'm happy that we got away from eASIC for a Full-Custom as their only purpose was the Nextreme quick to market niche that was passed up already.

Hopefully Ken can get back the majority of the NRE.

You think eASIC can be 10 times more expensive than competition? And you think a competition that costs 10% is anything near the quality work of eASIC? I know personally from calling companies who sell ASIC developing software for 28nm ASIC that this software costs a fortune. I was checking out the prices and investments needed for creating a own ASIC that time. Even when you rent the software only its very expensive. Its not going to happen that you find a company that is 10% or at least 20% of the eASIC price. If you do its most probably a scam. Or why do you think ken would have gone through the hassle to collect 10 times more bitcoins to be able to use eASIC then?

If eASIC couldnt create a full custom from the start it was a big misjugdement of ken to chose them. And theres the next point... you know that normal asics have one or two layers with standard routines included? Those can be used by the remaining layers to run the calculations. When you take them away you have to build even more logic than you would have with normal ASIC's. You cant await that it gets cheaper that way. At least i dont see that a company offering that is legit since other companies would use them then too and because of the demand they would raise their price. Its not like ASIC-Developers are sitting around workless.