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Author Topic: [ANN] | DUSK Network | Privacy-oriented blockchain for Digital Securities!  (Read 145622 times)
jonnytracker
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October 03, 2018, 04:07:51 PM
 #561

There are many anonymous blockchain , is this different from others ?
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October 03, 2018, 04:23:30 PM
 #562

So many data project, I wonder what is special with this one

The WP is very technical so maybe the team is trying to find new and different solutions.

Yes of course. Every day the team of this project is looking for new solutions to the problems that exist today. they process a large amount of information and create all the conditions for the development of their product. this is important.



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October 03, 2018, 04:45:16 PM
 #563

So many data project, I wonder what is special with this one

I don't think that there are other projects out there which aims to create an ecosystem for private security tokens like Dusk. Feel free to prove me wrong of course

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October 03, 2018, 08:44:09 PM
 #564

Why don't you build on top of Ethereum? Other projects did so and that worked out well. Building your own blockchain takes a lot of time and effort, which could then be spent on other things like marketing.

Ethereum offers no ledger privacy apart from zk-SNARKS (which is reliant on a trusted setup which needs to run at any configuration change). This basically forces issuers to avail of off-chain solutions which is very expensive and defeats the purpose of 1) decentralization 2) common task automation 3) streamline legal process 4) performances (as trading restriction needs to be arbitrated all the time through third party smart contracts, rather than being embedded at protocol level). So, to be able to meet the requirements of STOs, Ethereum needs third party platforms (like Polymath, Harbor, etc etc) which are basically application-level smart contracts, which resort mostly to off-chain processing, with no exception.

This is also because these platforms have absolutely no say at the protocol level and must adapt to what it is available to them. In that respect, they have a very limited control on the confidentiality level (and in fact they resort almost always to suboptimal off-chain solutions - see for example Harbor, Polymath or even Securitize) and are bound to biblical release time for anything that revolves around NFRs (Non Functional Requirements, such as, for instance, scalability, security, resource management, network configurations, SLAs, etc etc) since Ethereum must scale GLOBALLY all the propositions (meaning smart contracts or set of smart contracts).

Dusk is NOT a general purpose smart contract platform.
It is extremely focused on the use cases it intends to unlock and as a result it can be very specific in the strategies it adopts to scale and satisfy the NFRs of the use cases at hand.

It basically focuses on providing the right confidentiality in the 3 different scenario that render the platform a true network:
1 - Unidirectional atomic transfer of value (basically, payments)
2 - Bidirectional atomic exchange of value (transfer of asset ownership - securities fall in this category)
3 - Time unbound exchange of value (transmission of data stream - such as audiovisual conferencing, content streaming, etc)

We are gonna rollout sequentially the three layers of the network, which will each unlock one of these 3 parts
However we believe that 2 is the most critical as it taps into a market which potential is in the Trillions of Euros
Since we are heavily partial for this particular use case, it is very logical that we adjust the protocol to satisfy all the regulations (and not, like in the cases above, adjust the application layer to workaround the protocol limitations)

To give you an example of what we can do on Dusk which would be unthinkable in Ethereum please consider the following feature.

Dusk decouples the (centralized) KYC/AML vendor process from the (decentralized) security issuance and transaction arbitration with the aid of time-locked accumulators. Cryptographic accumulators are ideal for implementing zero-knowledge white/black listing accreditation of (un-)compliant investors and automated accreditation. Also, expiry mechanism can be added for forcing rechecks. It roughly works in the following way: as soon as the KYC/AML process completes, the transactor identifier (basically his registered wallet address, but it can also be something else, i.e. biometric data, etc) is committed to the accumulator, which remains opaque and discloses nothing of its set. A witness (called compliance witness) is thus generated and returned to the applicant. Such witness is the proof of set inclusion. From that point on, all transactions related to that particular asset class (token) must include the compliance witness. Since the info is directly added as payload of our own (improved) version of bulletproof transactions, the need for open data inspection on transaction clearance is therefore removed. The accumulator is stored on-chain (as it basically is just a number) and recheck forcing can happen through a removal operation which activation can be coded trustlessly and can be as simple as a periodic expiry or by encoding more sophisticated rules through a (zk-)smart contract.
Dusk will host the accumulators directly ON CHAIN, since it is line with our strategy to handle scenario nr. 2 of the above list

Ethereum would never do such a thing considering that it would not make sense to store a data structure on chain that is specific for a tiny fraction of its applications (i.e. Polymath and Harbor) and would be completely useless for, say, propositions such as Omisego, Kyber, Basic Attention Token, Bancor, Status, Civic, Aragon, etc etc.

This means that the applications would have to battle against the Ethereum protocol (i.e. move an eventual accumulator off-chain to the detriment of decentralization).

This would have nefarious consequences for scalability as well, considering that these proposition must resort to  continuously calling smart contracts in order to arbitrate the transaction operations (to the detriment of both performance and privacy), while Dusk is in the liberty of enriching the transaction directly with zero knowledge data from the transactors (the compliance witness), leaving absolute liberty over which vendor the issuer wants to rely upon and keeping the centralized compliance-related operations (like for instance KYC/AML) separated from the transaction stream.


I just wanted to express my gratification for actually taking your time and answering on questions and explaining in depth. I can't remember ever seeing this level of detailed answers on any ann thread.
well a very specific and detailed explanation, i think it is much better to build a new blockchain from scratch on a new network even if it certainly takes more time than working on a blockchain (eth) that does not offer adequate standards that ensure complete anonymity
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October 03, 2018, 09:02:18 PM
 #565

Anyways, they started from ETH, right? What is the point to start based on ETH and then claim for independence? It'd be better to start everything aside from others, am I right?
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October 03, 2018, 10:08:24 PM
 #566

Another new advisor have joined the team and he seems very competent. I think the team is an important part of the sucess of a project, even the biggest part I think. And the dusk network team seems very interesting, i think they can do something interesting.
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October 03, 2018, 10:47:13 PM
 #567

How many people do you think are needed to get Dusk to mainnet? Because this seems quite a large undertaking, while the tech team is not that large. In comparison Cardano has 91 contributors on their Github and their are 26 people affiliated with Input Output.
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October 04, 2018, 04:50:44 AM
 #568

Nicolas Cimon joins Dusk Network as Strategic Advisor

We are delighted to announce that Nicolas Cimon, Managing Director of Cross Border Consulting, and former Senior Associate in Securities, is joining the Dusk Foundation as a Strategic Advisor for the Dusk Network.



Nicolas Cimon has 20 years of experience in the legal and consulting business working in Canada and Europe and serving clients in Europe, Middle East and Africa. Nicolas worked as a securities lawyer for Ogilvy Renault (now Norton Rose Fulbright) in Canada and Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer in France. He was involved in major initial public offerings of securities, issuance of debt and hybrid securities and takeovers of publicly listed corporations in Canada, US and Europe. In particular, Nicolas was involved in the IPO of the pan-European exchange Euronext. As a consultant, Nicolas is executing strategic recruitments for international law firms, investment banks and leading blockchain technology companies.

Nicolas graduated in law at Laval University in Quebec, Canada and completed an MBA at Laval University and Universidad Nacional de Córdoba in Argentina. He is fluent in English, French and Spanish.

The Dusk Foundation will benefit strongly from his expertise as a legal counsel in the securities industry to navigate through the different legal systems and setting up the standard for a decentralized privacy network and Security Token Offerings.

How to learn more about Dusk Network
The Dusk Network is a project coordinated by the Dusk Foundation. We are a decentralized ecosystem entirely focused on providing the perfect trade-off between privacy and transparency. Dusk protects privacy and fits regulations in payments, communications and asset transfers.

Please consider joining us at the following media:
Wow! Congratulations! when such people with great experience and knowledge join the project it makes the project better!

Actually, the adhesion of people like Cimon, provided with capacity and experience, bring to any project an extra potential, especially with imminent regulations and adverse market situations, is someone to contribute during and even after sale, in the long term work . Congratulations

what a resume he has.. i did become a little bit jealous after the things he did:) canada, various europe locations, argentina.. that i can say he is a global person..

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October 04, 2018, 05:57:27 AM
 #569

How many people do you think are needed to get Dusk to mainnet? Because this seems quite a large undertaking, while the tech team is not that large. In comparison Cardano has 91 contributors on their Github and their are 26 people affiliated with Input Output.

You don't need that many people working on code to push it out for sure. Software development doesn't really work in the way "the more people you have coding the faster you finish" often having few programmers with a clear vision can get the work done in a reasonable time. And in this particular case you need to have people that knows what they are coding since the problems to solve are quite hard.

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October 04, 2018, 06:32:54 AM
 #570

Anyways, they started from ETH, right? What is the point to start based on ETH and then claim for independence? It'd be better to start everything aside from others, am I right?

If you check tezos, they did as you mentioned. But people discussed very long time it is a scam or not. So, it is good to have something on eth blockchain before mainnet is ready.

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October 04, 2018, 06:58:52 AM
 #571

There are many anonymous blockchain , is this different from others ?

Most of them are just used as currencies whereas DUSK has many use cases.
You can see the comparison table here: https://dusk.network/faq/
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October 04, 2018, 07:12:35 AM
 #572

They want to issue security tokens? But for security tokens you must have a lot of licenses, and I dont think that SEC or any other government structure allow issue tokens on anonymous platform ...  Huh

From their FAQ section:

Is DUSK a security token?
No. DUSK is not a security because it presents a protocol-regulated inflationary mechanism and provides no profit or dividends whatsoever. It absolves the same role of Ether in the Ethereum ecosystem.

My question was in another. They will have smart contracts for creating tokens like Ethereum? But this is anonymous coin, so SEC will allow create security tokens on anonymous blockchain?
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October 04, 2018, 07:45:46 AM
 #573

They want to issue security tokens? But for security tokens you must have a lot of licenses, and I dont think that SEC or any other government structure allow issue tokens on anonymous platform ...  Huh

From their FAQ section:

Is DUSK a security token?
No. DUSK is not a security because it presents a protocol-regulated inflationary mechanism and provides no profit or dividends whatsoever. It absolves the same role of Ether in the Ethereum ecosystem.

My question was in another. They will have smart contracts for creating tokens like Ethereum? But this is anonymous coin, so SEC will allow create security tokens on anonymous blockchain?

I suppose not. In general this is doubtful. On the other hand, the SEC does not have global power in the field of cryptocurrency.
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October 04, 2018, 08:38:54 AM
 #574

They want to issue security tokens? But for security tokens you must have a lot of licenses, and I dont think that SEC or any other government structure allow issue tokens on anonymous platform ...  Huh

From their FAQ section:

Is DUSK a security token?
No. DUSK is not a security because it presents a protocol-regulated inflationary mechanism and provides no profit or dividends whatsoever. It absolves the same role of Ether in the Ethereum ecosystem.

My question was in another. They will have smart contracts for creating tokens like Ethereum? But this is anonymous coin, so SEC will allow create security tokens on anonymous blockchain?

I suppose not. In general this is doubtful. On the other hand, the SEC does not have global power in the field of cryptocurrency.

They said before that they shouldn't have problems with the SEC. Don't know if the reality will be any different.

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October 04, 2018, 08:50:31 AM
 #575



At least we can clearly say DuskNetwork knows what is talking about and it's actually interesting reading the answers and insights of how their product is going to work.

In the case somebody has the hash of a block in hand however i don't understand what advantage would give, since the information you need is actually in the block.  Huh

If you can clarify that thank you

Could you maybe rephrase your question, I am not sure what you mean  Wink
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October 04, 2018, 08:54:19 AM
 #576

So many data project, I wonder what is special with this one

Dusk is unique because our Dusk blockchain basically focuses on providing the right confidentiality in the 3 different scenario that render the platform a true network:

1 - Unidirectional atomic transfer of value (basically, payments)
2 - Bidirectional atomic exchange of value (transfer of asset ownership - securities fall in this category)
3 - Time unbound exchange of value (transmission of data stream - such as audiovisual conferencing, content streaming, etc)

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October 04, 2018, 09:01:20 AM
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 #577

They want to issue security tokens? But for security tokens you must have a lot of licenses, and I dont think that SEC or any other government structure allow issue tokens on anonymous platform ...  Huh

This is a misconception. In democratic societies, privacy is very well accepted and even enforced at legislative levels by policy makers. An example is the GDPR. Another is the SEC enforcing secrecy to trading bodies in the stock market to prevent price manipulation. The Dusk Network provides the same level of privacy enforced by regulators. Only, it eliminates the “trusted third party” and returns the power of disclosure directly to the user.

For instance, in the case of payment, it is the responsibility of the wallet holder to show the details of the transactions on request of the auditors (by providing a view-key). In the use case of security, compliant confidentiality is achieved with KYC built in the protocol and the use of zero knowledge accumulators to keep the whitelist confidential.

Here's an example of why STO's need privacy;
Publicly opening a position in a security, heavily manipulates the price of that security. If Blackrock wishes to open a, say, $10M long position on a tokenized stock, they would raise the price of that asset if they would do it publicly. This is why it is illegal in regulated markets to openly advertise positions and why the buy/sell wall tricks so often seen on token exchanges would lead to indictments on regulated security exchanges. This is also the reasons why financial institutions resort to let brokers open positions on different exchanges on their behalf and most often resort to darkpools to execute their purchases or sales. If you wanna get rid of the broker middlemen and cebtralization, while enjoying the same benefits of darkpools in a decentralized fashion without prohibitive mediator fees you need (regulator friendly) confidentiality.
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October 04, 2018, 09:07:28 AM
 #578

They want to issue security tokens? But for security tokens you must have a lot of licenses, and I dont think that SEC or any other government structure allow issue tokens on anonymous platform ...  Huh

From their FAQ section:

Is DUSK a security token?
No. DUSK is not a security because it presents a protocol-regulated inflationary mechanism and provides no profit or dividends whatsoever. It absolves the same role of Ether in the Ethereum ecosystem.

My question was in another. They will have smart contracts for creating tokens like Ethereum? But this is anonymous coin, so SEC will allow create security tokens on anonymous blockchain?

I suppose not. In general this is doubtful. On the other hand, the SEC does not have global power in the field of cryptocurrency.

They said before that they shouldn't have problems with the SEC. Don't know if the reality will be any different.

Considering how the development is going on and the fact that they are on the verge of crossing the laws, then problems can be very possible. It is enough to change a couple of paragraphs of financial regulators in the United States to close the project data and send the creators to court.
In such projects it is necessary to use legal assistance, otherwise the result will be very offensive for everyone.
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October 04, 2018, 09:31:08 AM
 #579

They want to issue security tokens? But for security tokens you must have a lot of licenses, and I dont think that SEC or any other government structure allow issue tokens on anonymous platform ...  Huh

From their FAQ section:

Is DUSK a security token?
No. DUSK is not a security because it presents a protocol-regulated inflationary mechanism and provides no profit or dividends whatsoever. It absolves the same role of Ether in the Ethereum ecosystem.

My question was in another. They will have smart contracts for creating tokens like Ethereum? But this is anonymous coin, so SEC will allow create security tokens on anonymous blockchain?

I suppose not. In general this is doubtful. On the other hand, the SEC does not have global power in the field of cryptocurrency.

They said before that they shouldn't have problems with the SEC. Don't know if the reality will be any different.

Considering how the development is going on and the fact that they are on the verge of crossing the laws, then problems can be very possible. It is enough to change a couple of paragraphs of financial regulators in the United States to close the project data and send the creators to court.
In such projects it is necessary to use legal assistance, otherwise the result will be very offensive for everyone.

So this is basically a utility token which will be used on the platform?
Or am i missing the point here?
IT's always a bit difficult to know what is being used where.
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October 04, 2018, 09:52:33 AM
Merited by o48o (1)
 #580

Anyways, they started from ETH, right? What is the point to start based on ETH and then claim for independence? It'd be better to start everything aside from others, am I right?

Thank you for your question. We have been discussing this point ourselves and there are pros and cons to both options; issue erc20 / delay.  The opportunity presented itself to work with a leading exchange and private sale contributors were vocal that they prefer to get tokens, or an erc20-voucher sooner than later. However, everyone agreed that a longer vesting schedule is preferred to reflect time till mainnet. Therefore we have decied to implement a state-of-the-art 12 month vesting system that we name; Second-by-Second (SbS) vesting.

It works as follows:
The smart contract will vest allocations second by second. What this means in practice is that,  at any point a token investor wanted to release their tokens, they can make a call on the smart contract and then will have access to the total number of tokens that will have vested at that second. For example. After the lockup, tokens will be vested over (365 days x 24 hours x 60 minutes x 60 seconds) 31,536,000 seconds. If someone wanted their tokens at the 1,234 second of the 12 month period, and they had purchased 31,536,000 tokens, they would receive 1,234 tokens at that point. If they did it at 6 months, they would receive half. If they did it at 1 day, 10 days, 57 days, and then every 3 weeks; they would receive the relevant whole tokens (rounded down) at each specific second.
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