Bitcoin Forum
December 07, 2016, 10:32:53 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 [24] 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 »
  Print  
Author Topic: ZTEX USB-FPGA Modules 1.15x and 1.15y: 215 and 860 MH/s FPGA Boards  (Read 174158 times)
Turbor
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1008


BitMinter


View Profile WWW
April 14, 2012, 11:16:24 AM
 #461

Very nice. If this is sold for a reasonable price then this is a big step forward.

1481149973
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481149973

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481149973
Reply with quote  #2

1481149973
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481149973
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481149973

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481149973
Reply with quote  #2

1481149973
Report to moderator
aTg
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302



View Profile
April 14, 2012, 06:42:33 PM
 #462


Awesome, that means that now one computer can handle about 84GH / s
Only I see a possible inconvenient, if you want to install a heatsink that covers the 4 FPGAs is hindering capacitors between 1.2 and 3.4 FPGA.
Hpman
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 176



View Profile
April 14, 2012, 07:39:45 PM
 #463


Awesome, that means that now one computer can handle about 84GH / s
Only I see a possible inconvenient, if you want to install a heatsink that covers the 4 FPGAs is hindering capacitors between 1.2 and 3.4 FPGA.
There is also the CPLD jtag pinheader between the FPGAs. But if there wasn't anything between I'm not sure if the four BGAs are plan enough for a monolith heatsink. Maybe it is possible to handle four single heatsinks with one big fan.

Hpman
Turbor
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1008


BitMinter


View Profile WWW
April 14, 2012, 08:23:14 PM
 #464

There is also the CPLD jtag pinheader between the FPGAs. But if there wasn't anything between I'm not sure if the four BGAs are plan enough for a monolith heatsink. Maybe it is possible to handle four single heatsinks with one big fan.

Hpman

A 120mm fan should work fine. The stock fans blow way less than 10 CFM each.

BR0KK
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742



View Profile
April 15, 2012, 08:58:12 PM
 #465

What if one FPGA Fails... No one knows about stability with theses things while mining. Than u end up losing 800MH/s for the time u have to replace it .....

I will buy one to try it out but i think i stick to single boards for now Smiley

If this thing is real theres no chance for BFL to get a stand in countries (like germany) where the miner has to pay attention to the electricity costs ?

ztex
Donator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 367

ZTEX FPGA Boards


View Profile WWW
April 16, 2012, 08:02:49 AM
 #466

What if one FPGA Fails... No one knows about stability with theses things while mining. Than u end up losing 800MH/s for the time u have to replace it .....

It the FPGA does not shortcut 3.3V or one of the commonly used I/O the other FPGA's can still be used. BTCMiner will support handling of failed FPGA's.

Also notice that there is a warranty.

tnkflx
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 346


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 08:06:52 AM
 #467

What if one FPGA Fails... No one knows about stability with theses things while mining. Than u end up losing 800MH/s for the time u have to replace it .....

It the FPGA does not shortcut 3.3V or one of the commonly used I/O the other FPGA's can still be used. BTCMiner will support handling of failed FPGA's.

Also notice that there is a warranty.

Any word about pricing?

| Operating electrum.be & us.electrum.be |
ztex
Donator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 367

ZTEX FPGA Boards


View Profile WWW
April 16, 2012, 08:14:34 AM
 #468

http://www.ztex.de/usb-fpga-1/usb-fpga-1.15y.e.html

Quad board, no pricing in shop as yet. Anymore info on timescales?

The new Quad FPGA Board should become available in about one week.

A new BTCMiner version (with Quad support and a lot of other new features) will be released in the next days. Typical performance should be 850 MH/s. (The prototype achieves 870 MH/s.)

The only difference between the bitstreams for Single FPGA Boards and Quad FPGA Boards are some changes in the glue logic. Therefore performance and power per FPGA are the same.

Prices are:
1..4 units: 999 EUR (1355 USD)
5..9 units: 899 EUR (1220 USD)
10..24 units: 809 EUR (1100 USD)
25..49 units: 719 EUR (975 USD)
50+ units:  699 EUR (950 USD)

I will add more info to the initial message of the thread in about one week. Meanwhile, please visit http://www.ztex.de/usb-fpga-1/usb-fpga-1.15y.e.html for details.

BR0KK
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742



View Profile
April 16, 2012, 08:49:45 AM
 #469

Quote
It the FPGA does not shortcut 3.3V or one of the commonly used I/O the other FPGA's can still be used. BTCMiner will support handling of failed FPGA's.

Also notice that there is a warranty.

Nice to know Smiley

I meant if i send it in for replacement i have to take down the whole miner and loose its MH/s.

Dhomochevsky
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 240



View Profile
April 16, 2012, 12:10:57 PM
 #470

One question - how much does shipping in the EU cost for these quad boards? Also, is VAT included in the prices you quoted?
vv01f
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 314


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 01:02:21 PM
 #471

-

donations to me please send via bitcoin 1vvo1FDwSAwNdLVA1mFkM7v76XPZAAUfb
a good European exchange: bitcoin.de (ref-link)
spiccioli
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1376

nec sine labore


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 01:41:45 PM
 #472

By the way: A German Bulk-Order is to be found in this Thread of Chefnet.
It could be worth also for people from Europe.

Sadly it is written in German...

Anyway, just a back of the envelope calc gives, for a 50 units order ( a 40K EUR value ), a single unit is 831 EUR using German VAT (19%) plus expedition (which could also be free).

One BFL single, for reference, sent to Italy is:

599 USD + 80 USD (expedition)
Italian customs rights 8%
-----------
Tot. 733 USD

Italian VAT 21%
----------
Tot. 887 USD

Converted into EUR (at 1.25) makes a final price of 709 EUR.

So, a bulk order of 50 units is still more expensive than a single BFL single (sorry for the pun).

I know that ztex boards have a two years warranty and that they use 50% less energy, but a single unit is 1188 EUR VAT included (without expedition).

Sadly.

spiccioli.

PS. maybe if someone here speaks german he could try to collect requests for that bulk order...
I think I'd pay 130 EUR for two years of warranty given that this makes me feel a lot safer than the 6 months only warranty of BFL.

edit: 130 EUR for two years for a product which has a price of 830 EUR is around 8% per year of warranty, not bad.
vv01f
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 314


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 02:27:08 PM
 #473

I know that ztex boards have a two years warranty and that they use 50% less energy, but a single unit is 1188 EUR VAT included (without expedition).
1st: Its not a single, its a quad.
2nd: When will an order of BFL be processed?! Can you point us to some bulk-order already in progress?! Why not start one?

I think I'm good with 2 years and better price/performance with these quads. Also colling, powering and building will be more easy than with singles (less y-adapter, usb-hubs etc.). And still I can invest less than 5k EUR / USD and have some Hardware soon.

donations to me please send via bitcoin 1vvo1FDwSAwNdLVA1mFkM7v76XPZAAUfb
a good European exchange: bitcoin.de (ref-link)
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Gerald Davis


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 02:42:26 PM
 #474

I think I'm good with 2 years and better price/performance with these quads. Also colling, powering and building will be more easy than with singles (less y-adapter, usb-hubs etc.). And still I can invest less than 5k EUR / USD and have some Hardware soon.

Why?

BFL Single = 830 MH/S
ZTEX Squad = 850-870 MH/S

You are getting roughly the same amount of hashing power per usb port or power plug.  Now the BFL Singles do use ~2x the power which is an advantage but the pricing as listed is a non-starter.   The largest issue w/ BFL is their abysmal delivery track record.  Still even if ztex can have new boards delivered in two weeks I am not sure it is worth the premium charged.

BFL Single - $600
ztex quad - $950 (as part of bulk buy 50+ units)
To keep the math simple lets assume roughly the same hash rate.

Pure and simple the the ztex quad costs $350 more.  

It does use half the energy but even at $0.15 per kWh that is only ~$70 saved annually.  So the turning point is 5 years.  After 5 years of continual mining the total cost of ownership (purchase price + all electrical consumption) between the two products will be roughly the same.  Hard to justify choosing A when it becomes cheaper only after 60 months.

While the ztex boards don't need to be cheaper they do need to close that cost gap.  The quad @ $800 in bulk (and $1000 individually) would have been impressive.  Between the $50-$100 annual power savings and the ~$80/mo opportunity cost* it would have been a solid competitor.  At $950 it is hard to make the math work even under most optimistic scenarios.


* By oppertunity cost I mean the delay between delivery of ztex board and delivery of BFL Single.  850 MH/s is worth ~80 per month.  So IF delivery of ztex boards are 2 months faster it is like having $160 lower capital cost.
spiccioli
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1376

nec sine labore


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 02:43:58 PM
 #475

I know that ztex boards have a two years warranty and that they use 50% less energy, but a single unit is 1188 EUR VAT included (without expedition).
1st: Its not a single, its a quad.
2nd: When will an order of BFL be processed?! Can you point us to some bulk-order already in progress?! Why not start one?

I think I'm good with 2 years and better price/performance with these quads. Also colling, powering and building will be more easy than with singles (less y-adapter, usb-hubs etc.). And still I can invest less than 5k EUR / USD and have some Hardware soon.

Yes, sorry, a single quad-fpga unit Smiley

I agree with you in that if a bulk order can be created, at 830 EUR/unit it is a viable/fair price (given better availability, less power used and longer warranty).

But this requires collecting requests, receiving and re-shipping units (if ztex does not split the shipping himself), which makes them a little bit more pricey given the double shipping.

spiccioli.

BR0KK
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742



View Profile
April 16, 2012, 03:18:55 PM
 #476

Quote
While the ztex boards don't need to be cheaper they do need to close that cost gap.  The quad @ $800 in bulk (and $1000 individually) would have been impressive.  Between the $50-$100 annual power savings and the ~$80/mo opportunity cost* it would have been a solid competitor.  At $950 it is hard to make the math work even under most optimistic scenarios.

They could close that gap by making the Bitstream faster Smiley Or isn't there some improvement space left?


Inspector 2211
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 383



View Profile
April 16, 2012, 03:37:09 PM
 #477

Quote
While the ztex boards don't need to be cheaper they do need to close that cost gap.  The quad @ $800 in bulk (and $1000 individually) would have been impressive.  Between the $50-$100 annual power savings and the ~$80/mo opportunity cost* it would have been a solid competitor.  At $950 it is hard to make the math work even under most optimistic scenarios.

They could close that gap by making the Bitstream faster Smiley Or isn't there some improvement space left?

Yes, there is: EldenTyrell's bitstream which squeezes three regular SHA algorithms (not double ones as the Bitcoin mining algorithm requires) into a Spartan6-150.
Assuming he ever sells it at a reasonable price.

But it also seems to have a higher power draw, and Stefan's 8 Amp VCCINT buck controller is not exactly helping in that department.

Elden, if you're reading this: What's up?

Stefan, if you're reading this: Have you thought about switching to 10 Amp buck controllers?
nedbert9
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252

Inactive


View Profile
April 16, 2012, 04:13:28 PM
 #478

I think I'm good with 2 years and better price/performance with these quads. Also colling, powering and building will be more easy than with singles (less y-adapter, usb-hubs etc.). And still I can invest less than 5k EUR / USD and have some Hardware soon.

Why?

BFL Single = 830 MH/S
ZTEX Squad = 850-870 MH/S

You are getting roughly the same amount of hashing power per usb port or power plug.  Now the BFL Singles do use ~2x the power which is an advantage but the pricing as listed is a non-starter.   The largest issue w/ BFL is their abysmal delivery track record.  Still even if ztex can have new boards delivered in two weeks I am not sure it is worth the premium charged.

BFL Single - $600
ztex quad - $950 (as part of bulk buy 50+ units)
To keep the math simple lets assume roughly the same hash rate.

Pure and simple the the ztex quad costs $350 more.  

It does use half the energy but even at $0.15 per kWh that is only ~$70 saved annually.  So the turning point is 5 years.  After 5 years of continual mining the total cost of ownership (purchase price + all electrical consumption) between the two products will be roughly the same.  Hard to justify choosing A when it becomes cheaper only after 60 months.

While the ztex boards don't need to be cheaper they do need to close that cost gap.  The quad @ $800 in bulk (and $1000 individually) would have been impressive.  Between the $50-$100 annual power savings and the ~$80/mo opportunity cost* it would have been a solid competitor.  At $950 it is hard to make the math work even under most optimistic scenarios.


* By oppertunity cost I mean the delay between delivery of ztex board and delivery of BFL Single.  850 MH/s is worth ~80 per month.  So IF delivery of ztex boards are 2 months faster it is like having $160 lower capital cost.


Completely agree with all points.

Give me Ztex Squads (lol) at 800 USD and I'll cancel my BFL order now.
Hpman
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 176



View Profile
April 16, 2012, 04:30:52 PM
 #479

Give me Ztex Squads (lol) at 800 USD and I'll cancel my BFL order now.
Give me BFLs within six weeks and I'll cancel my Ztex order Smiley.

Stefan, if you're reading this: Have you thought about switching to 10 Amp buck controllers?
Are there any layout optimization for heat transfers to the board?  I didn't check the papers but I guess with 10A@ 1.2V the BGA plastic package is near the limits.

Hpman
Epoch
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 917



View Profile
April 16, 2012, 04:38:30 PM
 #480

Give me Ztex Squads (lol) at 800 USD and I'll cancel my BFL order now.
Give me BFLs within six weeks and I'll cancel my Ztex order Smiley.
Wink Guess you'll be hanging on to your Ztex order, then. BFL has just begun shipping their mid-January orders.

BTC: 1DJVUnLuPA2bERTkyeir8bKn1eSoRCrYvx
NMC: NFcfHSBBnq622pAr1Xoh9KtnBPA5CUn6id
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 [24] 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!