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Author Topic: Crimea  (Read 156496 times)
niothor
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May 05, 2014, 12:14:09 PM
 #561

Choosing between two evils ... that's not really choosing Smiley. It's signing your way to slavery.

Sometimes you have to chose the less evil side, when there is no other choice. And I think Ukraine would be better with Putin rather than they will be with Tymoshenko, the EU and the IMF.

IMF means also China Russia and India ... and Ukraine and Moldova Smiley.

Let's check it out 5 years from now on. I bet nothing will have changed , a 5$ extra and the same corruption and many other bad things as before.
This is not really improving , it's just switching your jail cell.

It seems that you have no idea how close Ukraine to ideal case of corrupt state. The only thing left is legalization &taxation of bribery.

In comparison with Ukraine, RF has ideally democratic civil society with zero level of corruption.

You think that Russia is a role model for zero corruption? That is a sad joke , even when comparing it to urk.
So , how will Belorussian be placed compared to the two above?

I didn't say even once that they should continue with the former government , I just said that their current choice is just as bad as doing nothing.
Why choose a less corrupt government when you can start with a fresh one.


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May 05, 2014, 12:17:36 PM
 #562

Yep, of the two evils you choose the lesser one. For example the one that does not prosecute you for using your mother tongue.

Well , if you keep choosing the lesser evil instead of sending them both to hell with a fork down their a** , I doubt that even the fourth generation will live in a decent country.
We Romanians have made always this choice , and 20 years from 89 we still have to choose between two evils.
The only good thing is that we don't have to choose between two ex kgv officers anymore.


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May 05, 2014, 12:37:56 PM
 #563

You think that Russia is a role model for zero corruption? That is a sad joke , even when comparing it to urk.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Just try to imagine a situation when regional government forced to pay bribes in order to get any money for local budget, and 1 minute of talking with prime minister costs $10000.

I didn't say even once that they should continue with the former government , I just said that their current choice is just as bad as doing nothing.
Should they kill themselves instead of living in this cruel world?

Why choose a less corrupt government when you can start with a fresh one.
C'mon, this is Earth, and it's not a Wonderland. You can't create a fresh government on your will, due to many reasons. The fresh government could be created only when there are serious social changes, switching from one social organization to another, for example. When you are switching from feudalism to liberal society, then you have to create new government.

Without having serious social reasons, any attempt to create new government from scratch is doomed to turn into the deal between two evils. The major reason is that people are the source of power. Newly formed government can't be less corrupt than its creators and it's pretty obvious. And you are participating in such deal on every elections or referendum.

By the way, they still have their old government and parliament, they haven't created anything new. And that was right decision, much better then running another coup without any reason.

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Nemo1024
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May 05, 2014, 12:42:08 PM
 #564

Ukrainian authorities announced about closing the border with Crimea:
http://www.aif.ru/politics/world/1162590

They are blaming worsening of the situation in Crimea, and penetration of armed groups from Crimea into Ukraine.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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May 05, 2014, 12:49:14 PM
 #565

In the last few days, there were demonstrations by the Crimean Tatars in a few cities. They were blocking roads and obstructing traffic. The police didn't used force, so the things were kept under control.


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May 05, 2014, 01:02:13 PM
 #566

In the last few days, there were demonstrations by the Crimean Tatars in a few cities. They were blocking roads and obstructing traffic. The police didn't used force, so the things were kept under control.

I read an article in the paper edition of KP about Crimean Tatars. The more educated ones and the ones living in or near the civilisation centres are OK with Crimea joining RF. It's the problem with the isolated villages, where imported Turkish imams hold the minds of the Tatars (Tatars have a shortage of imams, so they import them). The article had an interview with two Tatar brothers, who work in construction in Simferopol. They told that when they came to their village saying that their condition and salary actually improved during the 1 month with RF, they were treated by the villagers as traitors.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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May 05, 2014, 01:15:18 PM
 #567

I read an article in the paper edition of KP about Crimean Tatars. The more educated ones and the ones living in or near the civilisation centres are OK with Crimea joining RF. It's the problem with the isolated villages, where imported Turkish imams hold the minds of the Tatars (Tatars have a shortage of imams, so they import them). The article had an interview with two Tatar brothers, who work in construction in Simferopol. They told that when they came to their village saying that their condition and salary actually improved during the 1 month with RF, they were treated by the villagers as traitors.

More than half of the Crimean Tatars do live in the villages. And many go to Turkey for seasonal work. In an opinion poll conducted a few years back, more than 40% of the Tatars wanted Crimea to merge with Turkey. So I don't think that money will cause a split in their loyalties.


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May 05, 2014, 02:30:41 PM
 #568

More on the topic of the bridge:
http://itar-tass.com/ekonomika/1167152

200 billion roubles from the Federal budget are planned to be set aside for the construction which should be complete within 5 years.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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May 05, 2014, 02:37:38 PM
 #569

200 billion roubles from the Federal budget are planned to be set aside for the construction which should be complete within 5 years.

The bridge is OK.... But what they are going to do about the water supplies? Already crops are getting damaged in the northern part of the republic due to water shortage. And there are no major rivers in Crimea which can be exploited for water.


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May 05, 2014, 02:45:40 PM
 #570

200 billion roubles from the Federal budget are planned to be set aside for the construction which should be complete within 5 years.

The bridge is OK.... But what they are going to do about the water supplies? Already crops are getting damaged in the northern part of the republic due to water shortage. And there are no major rivers in Crimea which can be exploited for water.

They said that drinking water is not a problem, yet crops might need to be abandoned this year. The farmers will be compensated from the state budget.

On related news, Russia plans to invest up to 1 trillion roubles into Crimea until 2020:
http://www.aif.ru/money/economy/1162800
95% of that sum will be coming from the Federal budget.
By 2017 the region should become self-reliant and should not need excess donations.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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May 05, 2014, 11:30:49 PM
 #571

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ydudqGDBg

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May 06, 2014, 03:40:10 AM
 #572

They said that drinking water is not a problem, yet crops might need to be abandoned this year.

Sad to hear that. But what about the next year? Since Crimea is not connected by land to mainland Russia, a canal can't be constructed from the latter. What can be done to get the agricultural water?


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bryant.coleman
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May 06, 2014, 10:39:49 AM
 #573

New subs, warships, SAMs, troops to be deployed in Crimea

http://rt.com/news/157064-black-sea-fleet-deployment/

Quote
The Russian Defense Ministry is planning to deploy additional forces in Crimea as part of beefing up the Black Sea fleet under a $2.5 billion program. The need for new deployment emerged after the formerly Ukrainian peninsula joined Russia. “Before year’s end we will form new units of air defense and marine troops at the sites of our fleet’s deployment,” Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said Tuesday. “The fleet will receive new submarines and surface ships of new generation this year. This requires our attention.”


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Nemo1024
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May 06, 2014, 11:58:33 AM
 #574

They said that drinking water is not a problem, yet crops might need to be abandoned this year.

Sad to hear that. But what about the next year? Since Crimea is not connected by land to mainland Russia, a canal can't be constructed from the latter. What can be done to get the agricultural water?

New water pipeline from Russian mainland should be complete before the end of 2014.
I posted some quotes to that end a few pages back.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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May 06, 2014, 01:15:26 PM
 #575

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

Quote
Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; Only 15% Voted For Annexation

 Grin


http://www.president-sovet.ru/structure/gruppa_po_migratsionnoy_politike/materialy/problemy_zhiteley_kryma.php


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_status_referendum,_2014#Observers

http://www.focus.de/regional/rostock/konflikte-linke-abgeordnete-als-wahlbeobachter-bei-krim-referendum-kritik_id_3694807.html



fail propaganda ?

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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May 06, 2014, 01:27:18 PM
 #576

Uhaha I see many new *panic-panic-panic* pages... And accession page has been renamed into annexation Cheesy It's time to create Mars annexation page.

It was pretty predictable to see such type of butthurt related propaganda activization after incredible failure in Odessa. They need to distract attention from the massacres.

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Nemo1024
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May 06, 2014, 01:52:37 PM
 #577

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

Quote
Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; Only 15% Voted For Annexation

 Grin


Looks like a last stab at anti-Russia propaganda. They could have at least cooked a more plausible "fail" number, say 49%.   Tongue
15% just does not rhyme with the sense of euphoria and relief that Crimeans felt after reunification.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
bryant.coleman
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May 06, 2014, 02:11:21 PM
 #578

Russia's Gazprom says no decision on Crimea investment

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/29/ukraine-crisis-gazprom-crimea-idUSL6N0NL56J20140429

Quote
Russia's top natural gas producer, Gazprom, said on Tuesday there has been no decision on whether to invest in the Crimea peninsula, annexed by Russia from Ukraine last month. "At this point in time there is no decision in terms of projects or funds made available to invest in Crimea," Alexander Ivannikov, deputy head of Gazprom's finance and economy department, told a conference call.


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May 06, 2014, 07:46:44 PM
 #579

Merkel criticized Russia for planning to conduct the Victory parade on the 9th of May in Crimea:
http://ria.ru/world/20140506/1006760730.html

As if anyone asked her. Crimea conducted such parades even when it was under the Ukrainian rule.

So, victory parade in Berlin next year? Eh? Cool



Crimean votes at the ongoing EuroVision are counted as Ukrainian (because of how mobile networks are still trunked), so Crimeans can vote for Russia Cheesy
http://www.gazeta.ru/culture/news/2014/05/06/n_6134141.shtml

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
bryant.coleman
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May 07, 2014, 03:19:57 AM
 #580

Ukrainian Ministry of Social Policy: 8,000 people moved from Crimea to mainland Ukraine

http://euromaidanpr.com/2014/05/06/ministry-of-social-policy-8-000-people-moved-from-crimea-to-mainland-ukraine/

Quote
More specifically, she informed that today 7,723 have relocated from the Crimean autonomy, excluding military servicemen. In addition, the 1,862 pensioners out of that number have already received their pensions for April in their temporary places of residence. “The largest number of resettled Crimeans, 2,111, is located in Kyiv. There are many that have not registered yet; nevertheless, all citizens will receive the necessary consultations and assistance,” stressed Ms. Denisova.



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