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Author Topic: Crimea  (Read 156909 times)
247crypto (OP)
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March 02, 2014, 06:47:33 PM
 #41

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Great, conspiracy theories!

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March 02, 2014, 08:07:26 PM
 #42

First, let get the facts straight. Crimea was controlled by the Crimean Khanate until 1783, when Russia annexed it. It was then part of Russia for 138 years until 1921. Then it was part of the Russian SFSR from 1921-1954, when it was transferred to the Ukrainian SSR. So, it has been part of Russia for 171 years and after that Ukraine for 60 years.

Let's not forget the time before Russian annexation. The Crimean Khanate existed between 1441-1783 and even during most of the period of Russian control the majority of the population consisted of Crimean Tatars. It was due to Soviet policies that the Crimean Tatars either perished in famine or were deported to remote areas of the Soviet Union, thus opening up for Russian immigration. After the break-up of the Soviet Union, the Crimean Tatars were allowed to move back to their motherland, but they're still a minority.

So, yes, the majority in the Crimea are Russians, but they certainly cannot claim centuries' old right to it. That only the Crimean Tatars can do, who were robbed of their homeland by the bolsheviks. However, they want their homeland to stay part of Ukraine, as they have been oppressed by Czar Russia and then Soviet Union for a very long time.

About the claims of Nazis now controlling Kyiv. Well, yes, there are neo-Nazis in Kyiv. There are also neo-Nazis in Moscow... and in Berlin for that matter. In neither city they are in control. The Nazis committed horrible crimes in most countries of Europe and people remember that. Claiming that Nazis are now controlling any country is ridiculous, to be honest. If you believe that, you are falling for propaganda. I myself was once very close to get beaten up by skinheads in Moscow (in Izmaylovskiy Park) a couple of years ago (I had long hair and apparently Russian skinheads don't like people with long hair, I learnt afterwards), but I don't go around saying that Nazis are controlling Moscow... I'm sure you can film some neo-Nazis in either Kyiv or Moscow. The question is what you do with it. If it's only the neo-Nazis you're showing in media and not much else, then it's propaganda...

Now, my take on the situation; Janukovich is a corrupt politician who has stolen millions, if not billions, of hryvnias from the Ukrainian people. They were fed up with him and got rid of him. Probably the new leaders are also corrupt, but that's another story. Yes, the revolution was led by people from Western Ukraine and they are more friendly towards the EU than towards Russia, but that doesn't mean they will start oppressing Russian-speaking people. I was actually hoping that the new Ukrainian government would be more inclusive than Janukovich and be the government for all Ukrainian citizens, not just one part. Anway, my impression is that Putin ceased this opportunity to spread propaganda, which created fear in the Russians on the Crimea. Thus Putin could use the protection of his countrymen abroad as an excuse to take control of the Crimea. This is a very useful excuse and has been used many times before. By the Americans in 1846 (Texas) and by the Germans 1938 (Sudetenland), for example.

"Peace in our time"
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March 02, 2014, 08:27:07 PM
 #43


well... depends on way we look at the things..
.

doesn't ?

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March 02, 2014, 08:28:01 PM
 #44


So what? There are Saudi terrorists too, are all Saudis terrorists? Same for Americans, and in the end probably there are <put the country name here> terrorists too, maybe just not from Pitcairn where they are all pedophiles.


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March 02, 2014, 08:53:55 PM
 #45


So what? There are Saudi terrorists too, are all Saudis terrorists? Same for Americans, and in the end probably there are <put the country name here> terrorists too, maybe just not from Pitcairn where they are all pedophiles.



You are blind.
Russian Federation talk about "Russian language speaking people".


"Government of Victory" ban Russian language as "regional language", the reaction You can see in "Eastern Ukraine".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language

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March 02, 2014, 08:59:33 PM
 #46


How way i need to look at people fighting government forces with salafi maniacs, on territory of Russian Fedration?

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March 02, 2014, 09:04:11 PM
 #47

Now it is by speaking.
I will never stop to be amazed on how many excuses that pathetic form of life we call humans can come up with to wage war amongst their own kind!

Your argument just made a plausible excuse for EU to expel all Russian-speaking immigrants out of here, as a potential menace they should be kept within Russia, inside cages if possible.

Bottom line, are Ukrainians threatening Crimeans? No. Russia is reacting out of fear. And Putin probably is sharing the offshores with Yanukovych as it comes to knowledge they are just the same sort of corrupt dictators.
Don't let yourself get duped by nationalisms!

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March 02, 2014, 09:17:30 PM
 #48

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Your argument just made a plausible excuse for EU to expel all Russian-speaking immigrants out of here, as a potential menace they should be kept within Russia, inside cages if possible.

Russians in EU are not immigrants, see, how many are Russians in EU, and Russian speaking too.



Quote
Bottom line, are Ukrainians threatening Crimeans? No.
Yes. And after that, they does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014

Quote
Russia is reacting out of fear. And Putin probably is sharing the offshores with Yanukovych as it comes to knowledge they are just the same sort of corrupt dictators.
Don't let yourself get duped by nationalisms!

Russian Government is 100% ZOG, is hard to be accused in "nationalism".

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March 02, 2014, 10:04:58 PM
 #49


Russians in EU are not immigrants, see, how many are Russians in EU, and Russian speaking too.

http://www.worldmapsonline.com/images/Cram/History/expansionrussianemp.jpg


What are you trying to say with that map? That all of the coloured areas are more or less Russian? I could show you Mongol, Swedish or German maps where most of these territories belong to other nations. Would that make the Mongols European or St Petersburg Swedish?
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March 02, 2014, 10:13:29 PM
 #50

I'm far far away from Russia and can find Russians at every place. Don't tell me they're portuguese natives too.  Grin

Still, to "defend" someone that someone has to be under attack. And there were no Ukrainian attacks on Crimea, that alone makes you the aggressor not the defender of anything.
Russians should side along with Ukrainians and kick the despots out of the throne! Isn't Russia, EU, USA or anything the problem, but a constant load of dictators causing mass corruption and slowing down the Russian sphere development. You were offering the Ukrainians the choice to side along a place discussing civil rights, EU, and a place that is still deciding if gays can attend Winter Olympics. Guess who I would side with!

P.S.: Don't bother, we don't attack Russians, or Ukrainians, here. We see you both as quite alike actually, both great working people. So get along, war isn't going to help anyone on anything!

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March 03, 2014, 01:14:05 AM
 #51


What are you trying to say with that map? That all of the coloured areas are more or less Russian?

That "Russians" and "Russian speaking" are born in territories of modern EU States.
In EU are some 6 million of Russians, and other 3 million of Russian speaking Germans, and i know not, how many russian speaking Ukrainians are now in EU.



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March 03, 2014, 01:17:51 AM
 #52

What about those who are 50% Russian/Ukrainian+50% something else?  Roll Eyes

Seriously, it sounds like caveman nationalism! Those "Russians", unless apply to Russia Nationality are simply "Russian Descendants" but Germans, Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish, Italians or wherever they are.

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March 03, 2014, 01:18:30 AM
 #53

Still, to "defend" someone that someone has to be under attack. And there were no Ukrainian attacks on Crimea,



Learn, why is  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014

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March 03, 2014, 01:20:05 AM
 #54

What about those who are 50% Russian/Ukrainian+50% something else?  Roll Eyes

Seriously, it sounds like caveman nationalism! Those "Russians", unless apply to Russia Nationality are simply "Russian Descendants" but Germans, Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish, Italians or wherever they are.

Yeah , but they don't care about Russian nationality , they are happy to be Germans and Polish and etc.
Unlike German people in Russia , how many are left ....we all know why:)


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247crypto (OP)
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March 03, 2014, 01:21:40 AM
 #55

What about those who are 50% Russian/Ukrainian+50% something else?  Roll Eyes


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494128.msg5469656#msg5469656

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March 03, 2014, 01:23:15 AM
 #56



You are blind.
Russian Federation talk about "Russian language speaking people".


"Government of Victory" ban Russian language as "regional language", the reaction You can see in "Eastern Ukraine".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language

I just saw your crappy map , wtf man.....
Russian speaking people in Dobrogea , in Romania?  common.....


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March 03, 2014, 01:24:53 AM
 #57

Unlike German people in Russia , how many are left ....we all know why:)

there is a great difference in income from Kazahstan/Russia income and Germany

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March 03, 2014, 01:26:15 AM
 #58


I just saw your crappy map , wtf man.....
Russian speaking people in Dobrogea , in Romania?  common.....

update WIKI, with a new map, or listen about what is there shown (Russian as second language)

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March 03, 2014, 01:26:38 AM
 #59

Unlike German people in Russia , how many are left ....we all know why:)

there is a great difference in income from Kazahstan/Russia income and Germany

And a bigger difference when you go to siberia to dig your own grave Wink


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New Age of DEFI
A Non-Code Platform for
Decentralized Trading Instruments

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247crypto (OP)
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March 03, 2014, 01:29:21 AM
 #60

you go to siberia to dig your own grave Wink

In Siberia whit Minelab II is not to bad to dig

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