[ICO ENDED] Jarvis Network - bridge legacy and digital finance

[Jarvis Edge]

Guys what are your thought about STO ? Are security tokens a more interesting vehicle of investment than utility token ?

After taking time for much needed reflection on the past years, I have come to the conclusion ICOs failed because there is no incentive for the project teams to create any value for the investors, as the utility tokens are not allowed to increase in value. Would they be sold with the intention to increase in value, they were at risk of being deemed securities. And securities come with regulatory oversight and cannot be sold on unregistered exchanges. Additionally in contrast to shares utility tokens do not grant any rights other than access to the product. So you understand why being labeled a security or equity was to be avoided. Even though the teams could sell their unsold tokens on the secondary market, that would just be a bonus. The focus was to raise as much capital as possible before the regulatory ban hammer came down while pretending to be productive. Obviously raising money riding the hype was much easier than actually building a product that could give the utility tokens any value.

Security tokens grant right to dividends, however I am not sure they give a significantly bigger guarantee to ROI compared ICOs. Why? Security tokens still do not grant any voting rights nor any rights to company assets. Therefore security token teams still do not have to have any responsibility as the relation with their investors harbors no threat, liability or urgency. We can only hope the dividends increase the incentive a little bit for the teams to build some value for security tokens.

Great thoughts! It is true that utility token is to incentivize (usually) the people handling the network, but the team has not interest as if they are a normal company, they will do revenue in another way. This is what happens with Ripple. The team/company does not care what can happen to XRP. Because they make money without using this crypto.

We can discuss a long time to find other problems: the fact that there was a bubble was also a problem! Raising millions with a basic website was easy. Also, utility were listed months, if no years before any product to be delivered, so it is basically only a speculative market. Listing a utility token ONLY when a product is live, and the token is used within it, would have been better for ICO and for the market.

As you said, the problem with STO is the ROI... you can forget about x1000.

Therefore, maybe the truth is in the middle : to always have two tokens, one for staking/dividend, and one for utility. There is a VERY interesting one, one of our advisors work on. http://wetonomy.com/ and the concept of debt token is very promising to me. An interesting mix could be : you could sell an utility token (to pay fees); for each utility token bought, you send as well 7, 10 or 20 times more "debt token". You buy back debt token with your profit so contributors receive somehow a dividend until they run out of token, and they still have a utility token.

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[Jarvis Edge]

Important !!

To put all the chance on our side, we have decided to divide our ICO in two parts : a presale and a mainsale. We do want to launch our first products before the mainsale, to give more value to our ICO and to our token as soon as the ICO ends.

Also, the markets conditions does not allow us to get the traction we are looking at, so we will need more time, and probably spend more funds to raise the awareness of our project. We do know that our project is a good one, but it deserves more coverage. Dividing the ICO into two will give us more time to get to this point (we started our campaign and publish the website at the end of october). We have been advised for a while to postpone our ICO due to this, but we think it is better to divide the ICO into two parts, rather than postpone it.

Makes sense, its rare that projects have their beta product ready before ICO and that is one of the reasons, token sales dont go that well for them. Having a product ready gives you the necessary boost, especially now in this bear market.

Yes it is rare, but we try to listen the market, and what the market wants now is to show some beta.

[Jarvis Edge]

Guys what are your thought about STO ? Are security tokens a more interesting vehicle of investment than utility token ?

After taking time for much needed reflection on the past years, I have come to the conclusion ICOs failed because there is no incentive for the project teams to create any value for the investors, as the utility tokens are not allowed to increase in value. Would they be sold with the intention to increase in value, they were at risk of being deemed securities. And securities come with regulatory oversight and cannot be sold on unregistered exchanges. Additionally in contrast to shares tokens utility do not grant any rights other than access to the product. So you understand why being labeled a security or equity was to be avoided. Even though the teams could sell their unsold tokens on the secondary market, that would just be a bonus. The focus was to raise as much capital as possible before the regulatory ban hammer came down while pretending to be productive. Obviously raising money riding the hype was much easier than actually building a product that could give the utility tokens any value.

Security tokens grant right to dividends, however I am not sure they give a significantly bigger guarantee to ROI compared ICOs. Why? Security tokens still do not grant any voting rights nor any rights to company assets. Therefore security token teams still do not have to have any responsibility as the relation with their investors harbors no threat, liability or urgency. We can only hope the dividends increase the incentive a little bit for the teams to build some value for security tokens.

I agree with you, something is fundamentally wrong in the way ico are run today and should be changed, not sure how but there need to be more reason for the team to close the project, not just fill their pockets with cash.

I know I will sound demagogic, but our goal is to change the way people do things. If we can become rich doing that then it is perfect, let's be honest! But if the motivation is only the money, it is soo sad, so little... This is absolutely not how you build something that people love.

[Jarvis Edge]

ICO's are so 2017.

if it ain't broke don't fix it bro. as long as they get what they need , why wouldn't they do it.

Well, he is kind of right. In 2017 it was much, much easier to raise money during an ICO. All you needed was basically a fancy whitepaper with a blockchaih-related idea and people threw money at you.

But that doesn't mean that you can't have a successful ICO nowadays. Investors are now just way more cautious and reluctant and it takes more to convince them of your project.

Call it ICO, STO or whatever. Projects want to raise money to finance development. That hasn't changed since 2017.

That hasn't changed for decades... for centuries actually

Guys what are your thought about STO ? Are security tokens a more interesting vehicle of investment than utility token ?

I guess both has its pros and cons and its too early to tell which could be the ideal investment vehicle as also we need some time to see how those two will evolve. Maybe in 2 - 3 years time we could already figure that out.

My feeling is people now are orientating more toward STO's.
But with this incredible fast developing I am not sure if not a new technique is interesting in 2-3 years and nobody will speak about POW or ICO's anymore.

From what I have seen, STO is mainly interesting for US; they is a big demand for security token and STO; in europe and in asia, I am not sure. And ICO are still sexy! Way more than STO.

[Jarvis Edge]

Will it be possible to connect my Jarvis account and trade via your interface also on other exchanges like Binance, Bittrex?

Yes! Most of the exchanges Our prototypes has been done using Binance and HITBTC

Very interesting exchange idea.
Is your prototype already in a state of a demo/MVP, so that we can test it?

I know the one on the Jarvis Trader platform, but I was also going to ask the question for the exchange, if there is a specific day?

I was not answered on the prototype question, if there is a date ?

Is there a date of arrival of the prototype of the exchange ?

The prototype will not be launched, only the exchange, in Q1 2019. However you can use the Fx prototype (Jarvis Trader) in demo with FXCM.

[24Kt]

Guys what are your thought about STO ? Are security tokens a more interesting vehicle of investment than utility token ?

After taking time for much needed reflection on the past years, I have come to the conclusion ICOs failed because there is no incentive for the project teams to create any value for the investors, as the utility tokens are not allowed to increase in value. Would they be sold with the intention to increase in value, they were at risk of being deemed securities. And securities come with regulatory oversight and cannot be sold on unregistered exchanges. Additionally in contrast to shares tokens utility do not grant any rights other than access to the product. So you understand why being labeled a security or equity was to be avoided. Even though the teams could sell their unsold tokens on the secondary market, that would just be a bonus. The focus was to raise as much capital as possible before the regulatory ban hammer came down while pretending to be productive. Obviously raising money riding the hype was much easier than actually building a product that could give the utility tokens any value.

Security tokens grant right to dividends, however I am not sure they give a significantly bigger guarantee to ROI compared ICOs. Why? Security tokens still do not grant any voting rights nor any rights to company assets. Therefore security token teams still do not have to have any responsibility as the relation with their investors harbors no threat, liability or urgency. We can only hope the dividends increase the incentive a little bit for the teams to build some value for security tokens.

I agree with you, something is fundamentally wrong in the way ico are run today and should be changed, not sure how but there need to be more reason for the team to close the project, not just fill their pockets with cash.

I know I will sound demagogic, but our goal is to change the way people do things. If we can become rich doing that then it is perfect, let's be honest! But if the motivation is only the money, it is soo sad, so little... This is absolutely not how you build something that people love.

I agree with that. Of course one of the major ambitions of every project is to earn money but there should be a strong motivation why they want to establish their platform. If it's all money, then, it would crumble easier because the foundation is weak. Hopefully, you really have the good intentions of why building this platform and thru time we will see such underlying intentions. Good luck!

[lvsca]

currently, jarvis has demo mode with FXCM.
what the next forex exchange will be add by jarvis? it should be low spread, no commision, swap free, etc.
there are some big retail exchange regulated in europe as far as i know

[nugrama]

It looks like the team in this project will manage this project well, we will all look forward to its development for this project, hopefully everything will run smoothly and achieve success with maximum results.

[jonnytracker]

So many exchange already why is this one special ?

[dubignyp]

currently, jarvis has demo mode with FXCM.
what the next forex exchange will be add by jarvis? it should be low spread, no commision, swap free, etc.
there are some big retail exchange regulated in europe as far as i know

Have you ever seen a free CFD SWAP in the trading world ?
A SWAP allows you to keep your positions for more than 24 hours and this has a cost in all logic. It happens that sometimes the SWAP brings you back, being a professional trader in swing trading, with the USD/CHF in sales mode the SWAP is rather positive, (if it is below 1.00 unless I am mistaken).
Moreover, it is not Jarvis who decides the prices of the broker's SWAP fees. The Jarvis Trader is a platform that is connected by broker API. It is the broker who should be informed of the price of SWAP. Some of them vary from one to the other.

[levyashin]

From what I have seen, STO is mainly interesting for US; they is a big demand for security token and STO; in europe and in asia, I am not sure. And ICO are still sexy! Way more than STO.

I don't think ico's are still sexy anymore. Right now every ico fails unless they have some kind of burning program or buyback program which makes it a similar to securities. No burning or no buyback means a definite failing right now.

But securities something hot. People want some value behind their tokens. Not useless utility tokens anymore.

[Jarvis Edge]

From what I have seen, STO is mainly interesting for US; they is a big demand for security token and STO; in europe and in asia, I am not sure. And ICO are still sexy! Way more than STO.

I don't think ico's are still sexy anymore. Right now every ico fails unless they have some kind of burning program or buyback program which makes it a similar to securities. No burning or no buyback means a definite failing right now.

But securities something hot. People want some value behind their tokens. Not useless utility tokens anymore.

Yes, this is why our token has both: revenue + buy back program. But when I mean sexy, I meant that the success of an ecosystem can propulse an utility token very high (see Binance, the best example possible); a circular economy is smart, and to have a token which is used to pay fees on a working product (but this has to be seamlessly integrated, with a one-click purchase from exchange button) is great because you know that the more people come, the more this token will be bought, so the more you want to accumulate it for you and to sell it to newcomers.

[DelricoFabien]

Who are you working with if I may ask?

[Jarvis Edge]

currently, jarvis has demo mode with FXCM.
what the next forex exchange will be add by jarvis? it should be low spread, no commision, swap free, etc.
there are some big retail exchange regulated in europe as far as i know

So Jarvis itself do not add exchange; but Jarvis Trader (the interface) can be connected to several exchanges and FXCM. At the moment there is not another broker planned to be added soon, but next year we will try to add 1 or 2 more. It is very long to integrate a broker and not all the brokers allows to access the proper API to do so (unlike crypto exchanges which are more open).

[pynetx]

when you mentioned "Jarvis card" is it something like a debit or credit cards where a user can withdraw funds from an ATM or spend for online transactions?

[magisterr]

About the shares, we will start with european one; depending on our liquidity providers.

As for crypto, we need to deliver value, so our token can be very attractive as soon as possible. So we will first list popular cryptocurrencies, the one which are liquid, and where there is a demand.

Over the time, we will gradually extend our offering.

You mean just one type (product)  of shares? Which ones? or you will collaborate with only one brokers which will provide different type of shares (companies) ?

At the launch it will be easier and more scalable to do it with CFDs; so it will to conenct directly with liquidity provider of CFDs, not going through a broker, but directly the issuer.

But you said that you will be working at first with one european. Can you name this company? You have collaborate with them already?

[Jarvis Edge]

when you mentioned "Jarvis card" is it something like a debit or credit cards where a user can withdraw funds from an ATM or spend for online transactions?

As soon as Visa and MasterCard keep allowing to work with crypto related business, yes, it will. The main problem for Visa/Mastercard is the KYC/AML; they do not feel any threat from crypto, but they do not want to take the risk of supporting it. So strong KYC/AML has to be taken in place to provide such services. Alternatively, we have some plan B if a world ban happen on crypto card.

[Jarvis Edge]

About the shares, we will start with european one; depending on our liquidity providers.

As for crypto, we need to deliver value, so our token can be very attractive as soon as possible. So we will first list popular cryptocurrencies, the one which are liquid, and where there is a demand.

Over the time, we will gradually extend our offering.

You mean just one type (product)  of shares? Which ones? or you will collaborate with only one brokers which will provide different type of shares (companies) ?

At the launch it will be easier and more scalable to do it with CFDs; so it will to conenct directly with liquidity provider of CFDs, not going through a broker, but directly the issuer.

But you said that you will be working at first with one european. Can you name this company? You have collaborate with them already?

Giving name will be losing our competitive edge at the moment Hope you understand.

[wissy]

when you mentioned "Jarvis card" is it something like a debit or credit cards where a user can withdraw funds from an ATM or spend for online transactions?

As soon as Visa and MasterCard keep allowing to work with crypto related business, yes, it will. The main problem for Visa/Mastercard is the KYC/AML; they do not feel any threat from crypto, but they do not want to take the risk of supporting it. So strong KYC/AML has to be taken in place to provide such services. Alternatively, we have some plan B if a world ban happen on crypto card.

I assume you are not ready to hint what your plan B might be. I wonder how branchless banks or direct banks deal with KYC since they also dont have physical branches opened to public. Do they not issue credit cards?

[omwibya]

when you mentioned "Jarvis card" is it something like a debit or credit cards where a user can withdraw funds from an ATM or spend for online transactions?

As soon as Visa and MasterCard keep allowing to work with crypto related business, yes, it will. The main problem for Visa/Mastercard is the KYC/AML; they do not feel any threat from crypto, but they do not want to take the risk of supporting it. So strong KYC/AML has to be taken in place to provide such services. Alternatively, we have some plan B if a world ban happen on crypto card.

plan B? like issuing your own card based on the financial services that you provide? that would be risky in that context