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Question: How would you rate Bitcoin Savings & Trust?
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Author Topic: Bitcoin Savings and Trust | Home | Closed  (Read 774384 times)
hazek
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July 03, 2012, 10:26:41 PM
 #1341

hazek: we may be talking around each other. I'm just saying that his hedge only helps if the BTCUSD drops, and if it rises, he has extra liability. This is probably what you're saying as well.

Not at all. His "hedge" is that he is using other people's money. If the BTCUSD rate drops, he makes more, if it goes up his clients lose, or so the story goes. His clients should have lost money with the recent significant exchange rate increase, they haven't, why? Because he's not really exchanging anything.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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pirateat40
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July 03, 2012, 10:29:57 PM
 #1342

Riiiight ok, that's a valid reason.. Except there's one tiny little problem with your story: Your clients haven't had any loses yet even though the price rose which should have meant that you couldn't have possibly bought back all the bitcoins people "invested" with you that you initially, as you claim, converted to fiat. How is this possible? How are you able to meet your obligations even though the risk event for which you insured yourself against by using other people's bitcoins clearly happened?

Do you really think someone that manages as many coins as I do, doesn't have an influence on market movements?  What I do with the coins is my business and my lenders are well aware of the risks associated with entrusting someone with them.  If anyone has a reason to not trust me with their coins they're more than welcome to withdraw them.

I'm done discussing the same stuff over and over, if someone has something new to add fine but until then...  I be havin' t' get aft t' me ship.

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July 03, 2012, 10:30:00 PM
 #1343

Okay, I wasn't familiar with that term. But that still sounds like something that would have to be done in the future, unless you are saying someone has already applied these techniques to identify him. Is that what you're saying?

I assume if Pirate is sophisticated enough to run a successful long-running ponzi scheme, he's sophisticated enough to also cover his tracks. Or at least thinks he is.

Yes, that's what he is saying.  

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July 03, 2012, 10:30:59 PM
 #1344

hazek: we may be talking around each other. I'm just saying that his hedge only helps if the BTCUSD drops, and if it rises, he has extra liability. This is probably what you're saying as well.

Not at all. His "hedge" is that he is using other people's money. If the BTCUSD rate drops, he makes more, if it goes up his clients lose, or so the story goes. His clients should have lost money with the recent significant exchange rate increase, they haven't, why? Because he's not really exchanging anything.

Okay, when you say 'clients' do you mean the people giving him BTC or the people supposedly giving him $? I'm talking about the people giving him BTC. And I'm saying that under the assumption that somehow pirate is doing something legit or semi-legit, having to pay people back in BTC is good for him if BTCUSD  goes down and harder for him if it goes up. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. It might be something about his supposed real-world ($) clients losing money?

-bgc

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For Settlers/Dominion/Carcassone etc., I do email gift cards on Amazon for a 5% fee. PM if you're interested.
hazek
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July 03, 2012, 10:32:45 PM
 #1345

Riiiight ok, that's a valid reason.. Except there's one tiny little problem with your story: Your clients haven't had any loses yet even though the price rose which should have meant that you couldn't have possibly bought back all the bitcoins people "invested" with you that you initially, as you claim, converted to fiat. How is this possible? How are you able to meet your obligations even though the risk event for which you insured yourself against by using other people's bitcoins clearly happened?

Do you really think someone that manages as many coins as I do, doesn't have an influence on market movements?  What I do with the coins is my business and my lenders are well aware of the risks associated with entrusting someone with them.  If anyone has a reason to not trust me with their coins they're more than welcome to withdraw them.

I'm done discussing the same stuff over and over, if someone has something new to add fine but until then...  I be havin' t' get aft t' me ship.

So you basically have no answer why your clients HAVEN'T lost money "investing" with you after the recent significant exchange rate increase, which is the risk you hedge against by using their money instead of your own?

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
pirateat40
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July 03, 2012, 10:33:52 PM
 #1346

Riiiight ok, that's a valid reason.. Except there's one tiny little problem with your story: Your clients haven't had any loses yet even though the price rose which should have meant that you couldn't have possibly bought back all the bitcoins people "invested" with you that you initially, as you claim, converted to fiat. How is this possible? How are you able to meet your obligations even though the risk event for which you insured yourself against by using other people's bitcoins clearly happened?

Do you really think someone that manages as many coins as I do, doesn't have an influence on market movements?  What I do with the coins is my business and my lenders are well aware of the risks associated with entrusting someone with them.  If anyone has a reason to not trust me with their coins they're more than welcome to withdraw them.

I'm done discussing the same stuff over and over, if someone has something new to add fine but until then...  I be havin' t' get aft t' me ship.

So you basically have no answer why your clients HAVEN'T lost money "investing" with you after the recent significant exchange rate increase, which is the risk you hedge against by using their money instead of your own?

I really wish you knew what you were talking about. Sad

Ok really, I'm done.

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July 03, 2012, 10:34:32 PM
 #1347

I have no idea if pirate is running a Ponzi or not. My mind comes and goes on the subject, but I'm sure of just one thing. If bitcoin has no value, nobody has any business in bitcoin. And if pirate owns all bitcoins, bitcoins has no value. By distributing wealth, and by paying a huge interest rate, pirate is putting pressure on the exchange rate, and is making bitcoin become valuable. Maybe that's the only way he can have his business going...
hazek
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July 03, 2012, 10:36:42 PM
 #1348

hazek: we may be talking around each other. I'm just saying that his hedge only helps if the BTCUSD drops, and if it rises, he has extra liability. This is probably what you're saying as well.

Not at all. His "hedge" is that he is using other people's money. If the BTCUSD rate drops, he makes more, if it goes up his clients lose, or so the story goes. His clients should have lost money with the recent significant exchange rate increase, they haven't, why? Because he's not really exchanging anything.

Okay, when you say 'clients' do you mean the people giving him BTC or the people supposedly giving him $? I'm talking about the people giving him BTC. And I'm saying that under the assumption that somehow pirate is doing something legit or semi-legit, having to pay people back in BTC is good for him if BTCUSD  goes down and harder for him if it goes up. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. It might be something about his supposed real-world ($) clients losing money?

-bgc

He claims:
- he is facing risk when converting BTC to fiat and back
- therefor he is using other people's money to do his investing to avoid a loss if BTCUSD goes up

My conclusions:
- the risk event he is hedging against by using other people's money has happened
- his clients haven't lost money when they should have
- he isn't really exchanging anything
- his stated reason for giving up some of his "profits" and using other people's money is bogus

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
hazek
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July 03, 2012, 10:37:31 PM
 #1349

Riiiight ok, that's a valid reason.. Except there's one tiny little problem with your story: Your clients haven't had any loses yet even though the price rose which should have meant that you couldn't have possibly bought back all the bitcoins people "invested" with you that you initially, as you claim, converted to fiat. How is this possible? How are you able to meet your obligations even though the risk event for which you insured yourself against by using other people's bitcoins clearly happened?

Do you really think someone that manages as many coins as I do, doesn't have an influence on market movements?  What I do with the coins is my business and my lenders are well aware of the risks associated with entrusting someone with them.  If anyone has a reason to not trust me with their coins they're more than welcome to withdraw them.

I'm done discussing the same stuff over and over, if someone has something new to add fine but until then...  I be havin' t' get aft t' me ship.

So you basically have no answer why your clients HAVEN'T lost money "investing" with you after the recent significant exchange rate increase, which is the risk you hedge against by using their money instead of your own?

I really wish you knew what you were talking about. Sad

Ok really, I'm done.

We'll see about that in a new thread, coming soon Wink

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
CecilNiosaki
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July 03, 2012, 10:39:00 PM
 #1350

hazek: we may be talking around each other. I'm just saying that his hedge only helps if the BTCUSD drops, and if it rises, he has extra liability. This is probably what you're saying as well.

Not at all. His "hedge" is that he is using other people's money. If the BTCUSD rate drops, he makes more, if it goes up his clients lose, or so the story goes. His clients should have lost money with the recent significant exchange rate increase, they haven't, why? Because he's not really exchanging anything.

Okay, when you say 'clients' do you mean the people giving him BTC or the people supposedly giving him $? I'm talking about the people giving him BTC. And I'm saying that under the assumption that somehow pirate is doing something legit or semi-legit, having to pay people back in BTC is good for him if BTCUSD  goes down and harder for him if it goes up. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. It might be something about his supposed real-world ($) clients losing money?

-bgc

He claims:
- he is facing risk when converting BTC to fiat and back
- therefor he is using other people's money to do his investing to avoid a loss if BTCUSD goes up

My conclusions:
- the risk event he is hedging against by using other people's money has happened
- his clients haven't lost money when they should have
- he isn't really exchanging anything
- his stated reason for giving up some of his "profits" and using other people's money is bogus

Who said he is converting directly to FIAT, though? For instance, I've personally traded a few intermediate currencies to get from BTC to USD, and in turn draw in a bigger profit for a lower USD to BTC price. It's quite possible if you know what you're doing.
the joint
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July 03, 2012, 10:40:06 PM
 #1351

Guys, guys...this is an easy fix.

If you want to know if he's lying or not, just ask him to swear on his grandmother's grave and promise that he's not running a ponzi.

Easy peasy.

imsaguy
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July 03, 2012, 10:43:27 PM
 #1352

Email alerts suck!

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pirateat40
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July 03, 2012, 10:43:49 PM
 #1353

Email alerts suck!

Fixed, that for ya.

pirateat40
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July 04, 2012, 03:05:17 PM
 #1354

We're all filled up on crazy here!  Got FUD?  Check out these threads.


John (John K.)
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Will read PM's. Have more time lately


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July 04, 2012, 03:07:59 PM
 #1355

We're all filled up on crazy here!  Got FUD?  Check out these threads.


inb4 thread locked again. Cheesy
On a more serious side, why is there a sudden surge of people attacking BS&T?

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hazek
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July 04, 2012, 03:16:01 PM
 #1356

We're all filled up on crazy here!  Got FUD?  Check out these threads.


inb4 thread locked again. Cheesy
On a more serious side, why is there a sudden surge of people attacking BS&T?

Personally I got inspired by the EVE story which pirate's business has a remarkable similarity with, but it also reminded me of my crossing paths with ponzi scams irl and the devastation it always causes and so I couldn't help myself but to be another voice of serious concern in hopes to save some people from unnecessarily losing their hard earned money.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
hazek
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July 04, 2012, 03:17:13 PM
 #1357

Bitcoin is not fiat yet.  That doesn't mean it won't be at some point nor does it mean I don't believe in it.  There's simply no reason at this time for me to risk market movements with my converted fiat > bitcoin
Riiiight ok, that's a valid reason.. Except there's one tiny little problem with your story: Your clients haven't had any loses yet even though the price rose which should have meant that you couldn't have possibly bought back all the bitcoins people "invested" with you that you initially, as you claim, converted to fiat. How is this possible? How are you able to meet your obligations even though the risk event for which you insured yourself against by using other people's bitcoins clearly happened?

Do you really think someone that manages as many coins as I do, doesn't have an influence on market movements?  What I do with the coins is my business and my lenders are well aware of the risks associated with entrusting someone with them.  If anyone has a reason to not trust me with their coins they're more than welcome to withdraw them.

I'm done discussing the same stuff over and over, if someone has something new to add fine but until then...  I be havin' t' get aft t' me ship.

So you basically have no answer why your clients HAVEN'T lost money "investing" with you after the recent significant exchange rate increase, which is the risk you hedge against by using their money instead of your own?

I really wish you knew what you were talking about. Sad

Ok really, I'm done.

Btw people should pay attention to this ^. It's a serious red flag and he's "done" explaining..

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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Pasta


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July 04, 2012, 03:41:30 PM
 #1358

Pirate, do you have a Skype or other VoIP account? Why not hold a conference and assuage your inventors.
pirateat40
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July 04, 2012, 03:42:40 PM
 #1359

Pirate, do you have a Skype or other VoIP account? Why not hold a conference and assuage your inventors.

I have no need to hold a conference call to talk about anything that they don't already know.  What do you mean?

Raoul Duke
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July 04, 2012, 03:50:36 PM
 #1360

Pirate, do you have a Skype or other VoIP account? Why not hold a conference and assuage your inventors.

I'm pretty sure it's not his investors who are bombarding him with questions Wink

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