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Question: How would you rate Bitcoin Savings & Trust?
5 - Excellent
4 - Very Good
3 - Good
2 - Fair
1 - Poor
No comment just show me the results.

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

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Author Topic: Bitcoin Savings and Trust | Home | Closed  (Read 773983 times)
danieldaniel
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July 04, 2012, 05:26:42 PM
 #1381

It's fear, uncertainty, and doubt.  Not destruction.

Ahh ok, my mistake. The post could be called that although it's not. Regardless, I still don't understand why would FUD mater to a legitimate business. Do you not remember that there was a time when he even had a limit to how many people could deposit? But suddenly if people leave and voice their opinion it's called FUD and ex clients are being told to keep it to themselves? What changed?
Here's my view on all this.  I personally don't think he is a scam/ponzi.  I am not saying that I don't have any doubts, because I have self-debated about the topic many times.  I don't have many BTC with him anymore, just enough to make a reasonable profit. 

What I think is bad, however, is what Blitz stated in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91552.0.
Summary of his thread:
Let's say that pirate is running a legit operation, it's still indistinguishable from a Ponzi.  What's to stop people from defending a real ponzi?

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July 04, 2012, 05:31:11 PM
 #1382

... surely a legitimate business should be able to survive a single client leaving, right?

Now, hypothetically speaking let's for just a second, lol, assume that here is indeed a ponzi scheme, and this ponzi scheme has announced that soon it will significantly lower "the interest" at some given date. This hypothetical ponzi scheme has also made some announcement that it's principal who remained anonymous for long time will magically appear at some meetup (with "private security") just a few days before the interest cut-off date and reveal to the world his identity.

The question is: Why our hypothetical ponzi scheme would make such moves? The only plausible answer I can see is that this is an attempt to create an incentive for investors to postpone the decision on withdrawing "the investments" until the cut-off date and play on healthy curiosity of most of the hopium smoking victims. Thus this is creating a window of maximum opportunity for said hypothetical ponzi master to have all the money suddenly "evaporated" right before expected miracle of ceasing being anonymous and actually instead of it.

Now, for another second let's equally hypothetically speaking assume that this is indeed not a ponzi but some miracle worker with some troubles rising low cost capital. Why would such a legitimate gentleman all of the sudden decide to go public on some second tier meet up? Right before dramatical change of "interest" date and after ignoring persistent calls to come clean for very long time, no less. Why not just have a website and post registration details of a relevant company?

Curiosier and curiosier.

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July 04, 2012, 05:57:24 PM
 #1383

So.. there appears to be a whole lot of lenders, but no sign of borrowers paying the interest?

Have any pirate investors seen any episode of a show called American Greed? weeknights at 10pm on CNBC.

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July 04, 2012, 06:59:22 PM
 #1384


Dear pirate,

Sorry, i ment 1.5 trillion missing from the pentagon and of course good storys got be enjoyed not critisised Cool

Impeccable services got to be advertised the whole world over, instead of kept secret in blocked threads..no?

Especially Europe now needs an alternative currency , secure and safe banks.....exactly which is written in the subject :


 BTCBitcoin Savings and Trust | HomeBTC


Its only there, where german savings are not to be confiscated by profiligate GS alumni like Draghi, Monti or the hell what other mafiosi Wink

yeah lets get the new reserve bank rock !!!.....coming from 24% monthly thats lasts another 2000 years before reaching 0,15 % yearly

this time no lip quivering asshole at the helm but a pirate Roll Eyes

D´accord ?

Zyk





Uh.... I gotta stop drinking.  I didn't follow any of that. Sad




Being a drunken european newbee to the bitcoin scenery am a bit concerned about the agressive FUDS thrown around in the " community ".

Haven´t you all recognized that the world lives in a huge american dollar ponzi scheme since the Fed in 1913 was given the right to loan your aircraft carriers into existence??

This FUD broke 2008, its barely growing now and of course only the deptenslavery of our unborn children and studentloans are enforced, cause they are the last members which

haven´t been used up in this chain letter. The TBTF and the responsible criminals are still at the helm, trying to get out of dodge.


Right along comes the Bitcoin, supposedly immun to inflation at will, trying to be the new worldwide accepted and decentralised medium of exchange, leaving out the fraudsters.

Hammering away on pirate doesn´t serve the common purpose, which is, as i ve been coming to experience since now, the trustworthy and honorful conduct of the users

of bitcoin. Really ashamed that Burt W is able to sell bad loans:-)


Bitcoin in and of itself is the new ponzi in town and pirate happens to be somebody who has become with GPUmax and BST a centralising force in the scene.

As far as i can judge him by the things he wrote, its rather unlikely, that he just wants to be a thief but he is, and thats apparently not just my concern, not able

or willing to extrapolate or projecting a coherent story about his dealings ......the bitcoin world is still small, but international and of course could be growing by 10 per cent

weekly....did you see the different prices in the countries and those arbitrage opportunities?.....

Problem in my view is, that  the pirate by not percieving his buiseness  a ponzi scheme, involuntarily delivers the community to the old world and their machinations because

he declines to speak about the motives of his clients.....if they are just served...alright.....but if he takes sides with them rather then comforting himself in the position as our

unelected leader, lets get him knee holed :-)


P.S dear pirate.... don´t start drinking, not just yet:-)


Cheers Zyk
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July 04, 2012, 07:01:12 PM
 #1385

... surely a legitimate business should be able to survive a single client leaving, right?

Now, hypothetically speaking let's for just a second, lol, assume that here is indeed a ponzi scheme, and this ponzi scheme has announced that soon it will significantly lower "the interest" at some given date. This hypothetical ponzi scheme has also made some announcement that it's principal who remained anonymous for long time will magically appear at some meetup (with "private security") just a few days before the interest cut-off date and reveal to the world his identity.

The question is: Why our hypothetical ponzi scheme would make such moves? The only plausible answer I can see is that this is an attempt to create an incentive for investors to postpone the decision on withdrawing "the investments" until the cut-off date and play on healthy curiosity of most of the hopium smoking victims. Thus this is creating a window of maximum opportunity for said hypothetical ponzi master to have all the money suddenly "evaporated" right before expected miracle of ceasing being anonymous and actually instead of it.

Now, for another second let's equally hypothetically speaking assume that this is indeed not a ponzi but some miracle worker with some troubles rising low cost capital. Why would such a legitimate gentleman all of the sudden decide to go public on some second tier meet up? Right before dramatical change of "interest" date and after ignoring persistent calls to come clean for very long time, no less. Why not just have a website and post registration details of a relevant company?

Curiosier and curiosier.


Ive noted this before, him making himself visible in public in vegas would be his worst move if he does intend to run off with the funds. I said this before but I will say it again, he will NOT be able to vanish completely before some people will catch up to him out of principal due to organized crime that took place against these investors.

To summarise, No ponzi scheme have ever gone out in public before running off with peoples money however they either got caught as the house started to crumble and people not receiving steady flow of interest anymore or they got caught later on by people tracking them down since they never made their real identity public.

These 2 scenarios is why I cant believe this is a scam to run off with peoples money, it makes no sense and he will be brutally fked up if he even decides to do that.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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zyk
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July 04, 2012, 07:05:16 PM
 #1386

When a scammer asks you to leave his thread, ignore it.

We're not here to be nice. People are convinced the topic in question here is stealing peoples' money, and trying to stop that discussion by telling people to go away is absurd.

I, for one, am ready to face the consequences if I'm wrong. I wouldn't be doing this if I had any doubt I'm seeing a textbook HYIP scam.


What would be your consequences please?  sth to witness please:-)
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July 04, 2012, 07:06:14 PM
 #1387

When a scammer asks you to leave his thread, ignore it.

We're not here to be nice. People are convinced the topic in question here is stealing peoples' money, and trying to stop that discussion by telling people to go away is absurd.

I, for one, am ready to face the consequences if I'm wrong. I wouldn't be doing this if I had any doubt I'm seeing a textbook HYIP scam.


What would be your consequences please?  sth to witness please:-)

Im guessing he will take a photo with a shoe on his head.  Shocked

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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pirateat40
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July 04, 2012, 07:07:50 PM
 #1388

Update

To those that use this thread as it's intended.

I've been informed by Theymos of the following:

The starter of the topic may not change rules after posting their topic (not even by editing the topic post).

So instead of having to watch and reply to a new thread I'll be moving to a new channel on IRC.  Once I have the channel ready I'll add a post here and on the Alerts & Updates thread and lock this one.

Thanks,

-pirate

Vladimir
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July 04, 2012, 07:14:41 PM
 #1389

... surely a legitimate business should be able to survive a single client leaving, right?

Now, hypothetically speaking let's for just a second, lol, assume that here is indeed a ponzi scheme, and this ponzi scheme has announced that soon it will significantly lower "the interest" at some given date. This hypothetical ponzi scheme has also made some announcement that it's principal who remained anonymous for long time will magically appear at some meetup (with "private security") just a few days before the interest cut-off date and reveal to the world his identity.

The question is: Why our hypothetical ponzi scheme would make such moves? The only plausible answer I can see is that this is an attempt to create an incentive for investors to postpone the decision on withdrawing "the investments" until the cut-off date and play on healthy curiosity of most of the hopium smoking victims. Thus this is creating a window of maximum opportunity for said hypothetical ponzi master to have all the money suddenly "evaporated" right before expected miracle of ceasing being anonymous and actually instead of it.

Now, for another second let's equally hypothetically speaking assume that this is indeed not a ponzi but some miracle worker with some troubles rising low cost capital. Why would such a legitimate gentleman all of the sudden decide to go public on some second tier meet up? Right before dramatical change of "interest" date and after ignoring persistent calls to come clean for very long time, no less. Why not just have a website and post registration details of a relevant company?

Curiosier and curiosier.


Ive noted this before, him making himself visible in public in vegas would be his worst move if he does intend to run off with the funds. I said this before but I will say it again, he will NOT be able to vanish completely before some people will catch up to him out of principal due to organized crime that took place against these investors.

"if he does intend to run off with the funds." after revealing his identity -> Yes.
"if he does intend to run off with the funds." before and instead of revealing his identity -> No.
"if he does NOT run off with the funds." and instead reveals his identity -> WOW, no comments.

You assumption does not cover all range of eventualities. Fail.

To summarise, No ponzi scheme have ever gone out in public before running off with peoples money however they either got caught as the house started to crumble and people not receiving steady flow of interest anymore or they got caught later on by people tracking them down since they never made their real identity public.

They did not had Bitcoin and Tor and supid 80% of Bitcoin public in their arsenal. So this actually could be the first time. I did not try to trace this however, and have no idea how good he is at being anonymous. But we know that it is doable with some effort.

These 2 scenarios is why I cant believe this is a scam to run off with peoples money, it makes no sense and he will be brutally fked up if he even decides to do that.

You completely missed the point of my post and illogically jumped to false conclusion. Is anyone here capable of logical reasoning. Anyone?


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July 04, 2012, 07:15:25 PM
 #1390

I've been informed by Theymos of the following:

The starter of the topic may not change rules after posting their topic (not even by editing the topic post).
I don't see any reason to enforce such a rule - there are several threads where the 'FUD' can be discussed and pirate has even posted links to them in the OP  Huh




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July 04, 2012, 07:16:18 PM
 #1391

This thread will miss you,

@

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”  -- Mahatma Gandhi

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July 04, 2012, 07:24:17 PM
 #1392

Should be easy for the forum operators to determine whether Pirate always accesses the forums using Tor. I'd say that if he does, it's pretty damning evidence.
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July 04, 2012, 07:24:40 PM
 #1393

... surely a legitimate business should be able to survive a single client leaving, right?

Now, hypothetically speaking let's for just a second, lol, assume that here is indeed a ponzi scheme, and this ponzi scheme has announced that soon it will significantly lower "the interest" at some given date. This hypothetical ponzi scheme has also made some announcement that it's principal who remained anonymous for long time will magically appear at some meetup (with "private security") just a few days before the interest cut-off date and reveal to the world his identity.

The question is: Why our hypothetical ponzi scheme would make such moves? The only plausible answer I can see is that this is an attempt to create an incentive for investors to postpone the decision on withdrawing "the investments" until the cut-off date and play on healthy curiosity of most of the hopium smoking victims. Thus this is creating a window of maximum opportunity for said hypothetical ponzi master to have all the money suddenly "evaporated" right before expected miracle of ceasing being anonymous and actually instead of it.

Now, for another second let's equally hypothetically speaking assume that this is indeed not a ponzi but some miracle worker with some troubles rising low cost capital. Why would such a legitimate gentleman all of the sudden decide to go public on some second tier meet up? Right before dramatical change of "interest" date and after ignoring persistent calls to come clean for very long time, no less. Why not just have a website and post registration details of a relevant company?

Curiosier and curiosier.


Ive noted this before, him making himself visible in public in vegas would be his worst move if he does intend to run off with the funds. I said this before but I will say it again, he will NOT be able to vanish completely before some people will catch up to him out of principal due to organized crime that took place against these investors.

To summarise, No ponzi scheme have ever gone out in public before running off with peoples money however they either got caught as the house started to crumble and people not receiving steady flow of interest anymore or they got caught later on by people tracking them down since they never made their real identity public.

These 2 scenarios is why I cant believe this is a scam to run off with peoples money, it makes no sense and he will be brutally fked up if he even decides to do that.

As Vladimir said already : FAIL.

Look at shakaru and how that turned out. Lots of people knew him, went to his house, he stole $20K.

What happened afterwards ? NOTHING. Nobody can do anything against BTC thieves.

I dare you to do anything to shakaru or pirateat40 ( if he turns out to be a scam - which I doubt at this point ).

If he does turn out to be a scam, all I want from him is a personal autograph for my collection. He truly will be the biggest BTC scammer EVER.

Respect, matey !
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July 04, 2012, 07:37:52 PM
 #1394

Pirate's primary (and only one, so far as I know) is because if he disclosed his operation, it would allow more competition to come in.  But the thing is, he's the big player in this unknown niche, as often happens when you're first-to-market.  He's already #1 by a HUGE margin.  Why not just disclose the working operations of your business and put all the nay-sayers to rest?  Competition would be fighting an uphill battle at that point. Pirate would have the iPad of investment schemes while others would be scambling to design something competitive to hopefully capture just 5% of the market.

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July 04, 2012, 07:41:58 PM
 #1395

One question that pops in my mind regularly is : how would he cash out those 100k BTC ? MtGox would trace him down. Use torwallet / bitcoin fog ? BTC-e russian scammer exchange that does not care about taint coins ? GPUMAX - pirate himself said that he does not care about stolen / tainted coins ?

I am very interested as to how he will cash out the BTC to USD if this does turn out to be a scam.

I'm not saying it's a ponzi, but if it is, Pirate would probably already have started to sell off his BTC. Naturally, what he's selling are freshly mined coins acquired with GPUmax.

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July 04, 2012, 07:42:39 PM
 #1396

One question that pops in my mind regularly is : how would he cash out those 100k BTC ? MtGox would trace him down. Use torwallet / bitcoin fog ? BTC-e russian scammer exchange that does not care about taint coins ? GPUMAX - pirate himself said that he does not care about stolen / tainted coins ?

I am very interested as to how he will cash out the BTC to USD if this does turn out to be a scam.

For all we know most of it potentially could have been cashed out already. There must be a reason for all that unnatural stability around 5$ since February. For all we know it hypothetically could be an endless supply of "invested" BTC sold just around 5$ mark. Tripple tap:
1. liquidation done slowly,
2. keep speculators desperate for volatility starve them of any action, push "growth" "investors" into "value" "investing".
3. Cash out before people run to track tainted coins.

Makes sense.





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imsaguy
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July 04, 2012, 07:45:02 PM
 #1397

One question that pops in my mind regularly is : how would he cash out those 100k BTC ? MtGox would trace him down. Use torwallet / bitcoin fog ? BTC-e russian scammer exchange that does not care about taint coins ? GPUMAX - pirate himself said that he does not care about stolen / tainted coins ?

I am very interested as to how he will cash out the BTC to USD if this does turn out to be a scam.

I'm not saying it's a ponzi, but if it is, Pirate would probably already have started to sell off his BTC. Naturally, what he's selling are freshly mined coins acquired with GPUmax.

Obviously you don't know how gpumax works.  The coins go to the pool account of whoever does the purchase.  GPUMax hasn't done anywhere near the amount of leased work that would be required to launder the coins that pirate touches, especially when I subtract the purchases of people I know to have purchased.

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July 04, 2012, 07:55:11 PM
 #1398

by the way ... is BCST taxable?
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July 04, 2012, 07:55:58 PM
 #1399

by the way ... is BCST taxable?
If the tax man knows you are making 7% per week, the tax man wants his cut.

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July 04, 2012, 08:13:38 PM
 #1400

by the way ... is BCST taxable?
If the tax man knows you are making 7% per week, the tax man wants his cut.

ALL capital gains are taxable!!  We have had these tax discussions many, many times already. When in doubt, ask your accountant/CPA.....

@Buluna, it is very much likely your WOW gold will eventually be taxed. You seem to not be keeping up on the IRS and tax laws. New blizzard RMAH, while it may not get taxed directly, if you cash out through Paypal you will find yourself falling under their newer reporting requirements. Which right now are still $20k before they 1099-K you(citation neeeded). Same with Amzon for example, " Re: Does Amazon Send You A 1099/ Here it is straight from Amazon
Posted: Apr 20, 2011 3:46 PM    in response to: jgreen30     Reply  

Hello to All ,
Amazon sent me the following :

Hello from Amazon,

We're writing to let you know about new Internal Revenue Service (IRS) regulations that may impact your seller account.

Beginning with the 2011 tax year, new IRS regulations require that U.S. payment processors, including Amazon, file Form 1099-K for sellers that exceed $20,000 in gross sales and 200 transactions in a calendar year. The regulations also require that registered sellers (regardless of account status and sales volume) have taxpayer identification information on file in order for backup withholding not to apply on gross sales."



Just 2 examples. You may say, "well, I only make $1200 whole year from RMAH sales, or BTC sales". Do what you want but legally you should be reporting it imho.

Yes, I filed last year and will file this year my capital gains/losses from Bitcoin related activies..

 

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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