[ANN] Grin | PoW Mining | Electronic transactions for all. Community driven.

[Gash]

@tromp. Would Grin's monetary policy not end similar to the diamond market where different groups come into agreement and does artificial scarcity by controling the supply of diamonds released in the market?

Release of Grin into the market is controlled by mathematics dictating 1 Grin/sec, which is beyond the control of any cartel.

A cartel of all chip manufacturers, by TSCM, Samsung, Intel, etc. could produce superior Grin ASICs and keep them all to themselves, running them in their own data centers, and thus mine a majority of Grins. It would still be 1 Grin per second.
There would be little point in doing that for Grin (at a huge loss) when it could be done for Bitcoin instead (at a smaller loss).
In any case, in that exceedingly unlikely event, Grin could then change PoW.

I reckon Asic miners might form a similar type of understanding. Would it not be the best for the Grin project if it copied Monero's exploration on Asic resistance to avoid formation of similar power groups?

Monero is just one ASIC away from realizing that their quest for ASIC resistance is futile.

However the cartel would hold most of the coins from being released on the market to create artificial scarcity and manipulate the price, similar to what a cartel is doing on the diamond market. The cartel will have power over coin issuance. It might appear like they are the federal reserve hehehe.

In any case, agreed. That was why we in the Aeon community supported smooth and stoffu's hardfork to kangaroo12 mining algorithm and welcomed Asics. However, for infinite emission, I reckon Asic resistance might be more of a serious concern?

@Hueristic. What the source of this information?

Secret cartel mining a shitcoin ... lol Dont get taken away by these absurd fancies. For that matter, if hypothetical cartels made it their mission to pursue really big profit, It would be more profitable for them to export heroine from Afghanistan, and have people sniff it at home and then manufacture asics out of metal talons found in locks in which bags with heroin are hidden.

[bbc.reporter]

@Febo @Hueristic. I have forgotten that stoffu already explained about this issue. Miners mine on a higher hashrate in RandomX because it is faster to compute than cryptonight.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg53324704#msg53324704

You misread my statement, I never said there were current ASICS and do not believe there are or even will be if the Devs do as I suggested years ago and have a backup algo ready to go as a deterrent. AAMOF if they had done it back then then we never would have had the secret ASIC mining issue we did have in the first place as we could have forked immediately instead of waiting 6 months when the rate doubled when the first cryptonight ASICs were created(2017 IIRC) and that would have made their venture unprofitable and therefore they would not have wasted the resources to try it again.

All you need to do for a deterrent is to prove you are willing to do what it takes, mutually assured destruction is the ultimate form of this (I.E. a Doomsday machine) and it is 100% effective. That is an example it would be foolish to make a doomsday for a decentralized network as an asic friendly would be preferable to that but I think you get the idea I am trying to put across here. I think my mother described it best when she said I would cut off my nose to spite my face.

You talk of a decentralized network, however, a cryptocoin that can change the mining algorithm from the decision of a group of people anytime they order it is centralized. It is also not an assurance that it will stop Asics.

@Gash. Remove your bias. Let us pretend that a cryptocoin with a similar monetary policy as Grin has reached $50 billion market capitalization.

[Hueristic]

@Febo @Hueristic. I have forgotten that stoffu already explained about this issue. Miners mine on a higher hashrate in RandomX because it is faster to compute than cryptonight.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg53324704#msg53324704

You misread my statement, I never said there were current ASICS and do not believe there are or even will be if the Devs do as I suggested years ago and have a backup algo ready to go as a deterrent. AAMOF if they had done it back then then we never would have had the secret ASIC mining issue we did have in the first place as we could have forked immediately instead of waiting 6 months when the rate doubled when the first cryptonight ASICs were created(2017 IIRC) and that would have made their venture unprofitable and therefore they would not have wasted the resources to try it again.

All you need to do for a deterrent is to prove you are willing to do what it takes, mutually assured destruction is the ultimate form of this (I.E. a Doomsday machine) and it is 100% effective. That is an example it would be foolish to make a doomsday for a decentralized network as an asic friendly would be preferable to that but I think you get the idea I am trying to put across here. I think my mother described it best when she said I would cut off my nose to spite my face.

You talk of a decentralized network, however, a cryptocoin that can change the mining algorithm from the decision of a group of people anytime they order it is centralized. It is also not an assurance that it will stop Asics.

Not when it is done by consensus.

[mankuk0007]

@Febo @Hueristic. I have forgotten that stoffu already explained about this issue. Miners mine on a higher hashrate in RandomX because it is faster to compute than cryptonight.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg53324704#msg53324704

You misread my statement, I never said there were current ASICS and do not believe there are or even will be if the Devs do as I suggested years ago and have a backup algo ready to go as a deterrent. AAMOF if they had done it back then then we never would have had the secret ASIC mining issue we did have in the first place as we could have forked immediately instead of waiting 6 months when the rate doubled when the first cryptonight ASICs were created(2017 IIRC) and that would have made their venture unprofitable and therefore they would not have wasted the resources to try it again.

All you need to do for a deterrent is to prove you are willing to do what it takes, mutually assured destruction is the ultimate form of this (I.E. a Doomsday machine) and it is 100% effective. That is an example it would be foolish to make a doomsday for a decentralized network as an asic friendly would be preferable to that but I think you get the idea I am trying to put across here. I think my mother described it best when she said I would cut off my nose to spite my face.

@Febo @Hueristic. I have forgotten that stoffu already explained about this issue. Miners mine on a higher hashrate in RandomX because it is faster to compute than cryptonight.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg53324704#msg53324704

You misread my statement, I never said there were current ASICS and do not believe there are or even will be if the Devs do as I suggested years ago and have a backup algo ready to go as a deterrent. AAMOF if they had done it back then then we never would have had the secret ASIC mining issue we did have in the first place as we could have forked immediately instead of waiting 6 months when the rate doubled when the first cryptonight ASICs were created(2017 IIRC) and that would have made their venture unprofitable and therefore they would not have wasted the resources to try it again.

All you need to do for a deterrent is to prove you are willing to do what it takes, mutually assured destruction is the ultimate form of this (I.E. a Doomsday machine) and it is 100% effective. That is an example it would be foolish to make a doomsday for a decentralized network as an asic friendly would be preferable to that but I think you get the idea I am trying to put across here. I think my mother described it best when she said I would cut off my nose to spite my face.

You talk of a decentralized network, however, a cryptocoin that can change the mining algorithm from the decision of a group of people anytime they order it is centralized. It is also not an assurance that it will stop Asics.

@Gash. Remove your bias. Let us pretend that a cryptocoin with a similar monetary policy as Grin has reached $50 billion market capitalization.

@Febo @Hueristic. I have forgotten that stoffu already explained about this issue. Miners mine on a higher hashrate in RandomX because it is faster to compute than cryptonight.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg53324704#msg53324704

You misread my statement, I never said there were current ASICS and do not believe there are or even will be if the Devs do as I suggested years ago and have a backup algo ready to go as a deterrent. AAMOF if they had done it back then then we never would have had the secret ASIC mining issue we did have in the first place as we could have forked immediately instead of waiting 6 months when the rate doubled when the first cryptonight ASICs were created(2017 IIRC) and that would have made their venture unprofitable and therefore they would not have wasted the resources to try it again.

All you need to do for a deterrent is to prove you are willing to do what it takes, mutually assured destruction is the ultimate form of this (I.E. a Doomsday machine) and it is 100% effective. That is an example it would be foolish to make a doomsday for a decentralized network as an asic friendly would be preferable to that but I think you get the idea I am trying to put across here. I think my mother described it best when she said I would cut off my nose to spite my face.

You talk of a decentralized network, however, a cryptocoin that can change the mining algorithm from the decision of a group of people anytime they order it is centralized. It is also not an assurance that it will stop Asics.

Not when it is done by consensus.

really it will be based on consensus.

[lovelysingh]

@Febo @Hueristic. I have forgotten that stoffu already explained about this issue. Miners mine on a higher hashrate in RandomX because it is faster to compute than cryptonight.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641696.msg53324704#msg53324704

You misread my statement, I never said there were current ASICS and do not believe there are or even will be if the Devs do as I suggested years ago and have a backup algo ready to go as a deterrent. AAMOF if they had done it back then then we never would have had the secret ASIC mining issue we did have in the first place as we could have forked immediately instead of waiting 6 months when the rate doubled when the first cryptonight ASICs were created(2017 IIRC) and that would have made their venture unprofitable and therefore they would not have wasted the resources to try it again.

All you need to do for a deterrent is to prove you are willing to do what it takes, mutually assured destruction is the ultimate form of this (I.E. a Doomsday machine) and it is 100% effective. That is an example it would be foolish to make a doomsday for a decentralized network as an asic friendly would be preferable to that but I think you get the idea I am trying to put across here. I think my mother described it best when she said I would cut off my nose to spite my face.

You talk of a decentralized network, however, a cryptocoin that can change the mining algorithm from the decision of a group of people anytime they order it is centralized. It is also not an assurance that it will stop Asics.

@Gash. Remove your bias. Let us pretend that a cryptocoin with a similar monetary policy as Grin has reached $50 billion market capitalization.

It seems that network may be centralized as cryptocoins may transform the mining algorithm.

[Chris!]

Secret cartel mining a shitcoin ... lol Dont get taken away by these absurd fancies. For that matter, if hypothetical cartels made it their mission to pursue really big profit, It would be more profitable for them to export heroine from Afghanistan, and have people sniff it at home and then manufacture asics out of metal talons found in locks in which bags with heroin are hidden.

1. They aren't secret. They're just unknown to the general public.
2. If you're already making ASICs for every other algo, why not c29? It would just make sense so you can squeeze every penny out of your production line.

[tromp]

2. If you're already making ASICs for every other algo, why not c29? It would just make sense so you can squeeze every penny out of your production line.

Because a mean ASIC would need over 4GB of external DRAM, limiting its advantage over a GPU
Because a lean ASIC, while still needing 128MB of on-chip SRAM, incurs a computational overhead of having to compute 64 siphashes even if only one is needed.
And last but not least, because each Cuckaroo29 variant only lasts for 6 months before being replaced by a substantially different one, leaving no time to ROI.

[Chris!]

2. If you're already making ASICs for every other algo, why not c29? It would just make sense so you can squeeze every penny out of your production line.

Because a mean ASIC would need over 4GB of external DRAM, limiting its advantage over a GPU
Because a lean ASIC, while still needing 128MB of on-chip SRAM, incurs a computational overhead of having to compute 64 siphashes even if only one is needed.
And last but not least, because each Cuckaroo29 variant only lasts for 6 months before being replaced by a substantially different one, leaving no time to ROI.

Alright alright my real point was that if you know how to creates ASICs you aren't going to move drugs in Afghanistan. It was a terrible example of trying to solely earn profit. I'm always out for profit in my business but not by any means necessary.

[Hueristic]

2. If you're already making ASICs for every other algo, why not c29? It would just make sense so you can squeeze every penny out of your production line.

Because a mean ASIC would need over 4GB of external DRAM, limiting its advantage over a GPU
Because a lean ASIC, while still needing 128MB of on-chip SRAM, incurs a computational overhead of having to compute 64 siphashes even if only one is needed.
And last but not least, because each Cuckaroo29 variant only lasts for 6 months before being replaced by a substantially different one, leaving no time to ROI.

Alright alright my real point was that if you know how to creates ASICs you aren't going to move drugs in Afghanistan. It was a terrible example of trying to solely earn profit. I'm always out for profit in my business but not by any means necessary.

You are answering your own question here.

[bbc.reporter]

Is grin ready to be an anonymous enough cryptocoin to be the primary medium of exchange in the forum for protection and unlinkability?

Our tormentors will begin identifying independent currency exchangers on online forums as illegal money transmitting businesses.

[Neo-Geo]

Notice the title of this thread, "[ANN] Grin | PoW Mining | Electronic transactions for all. Community driven."

So, let’s see what the GRiN community wants, your vote may change the direction of this project. Should David Burkett (creator of Grin++ wallet) be part of the Grin core team?
Vote here: https://www.strawpoll.me/19637251

[Cryptotourist]

Notice the title of this thread, "[ANN] Grin | PoW Mining | Electronic transactions for all. Community driven."

So, let’s see what the GRiN community wants, your vote may change the direction of this project. Should David Burkett (creator of Grin++ wallet) be part of the Grin core team?
Vote here: https://www.strawpoll.me/19637251

Without knowing any details, that was a solid "yes".

[Neo-Geo]

More details found in this thread:
https://forum.grin.mw/t/lets-talk-about-the-elephant-in-the-room/7169/53

[Tarz]

Notice the title of this thread, "[ANN] Grin | PoW Mining | Electronic transactions for all. Community driven."

So, let’s see what the GRiN community wants, your vote may change the direction of this project. Should David Burkett (creator of Grin++ wallet) be part of the Grin core team?
Vote here: https://www.strawpoll.me/19637251

Man David quit crypto. Its been a while now. If you didnt know that, this might come as shock to you. But roughen up and hold your floor firmly however hard this info might be to stomach. David was a friend, seriously. I remember testing his head with a solid 30x9 inch red brick, that was more fun for me and him than my whole life prior to that. #Nostalgia. I clonked him with that red slab and cracked the skull above ear. We laughed!

[Febo]

Notice the title of this thread, "[ANN] Grin | PoW Mining | Electronic transactions for all. Community driven."

So, let’s see what the GRiN community wants, your vote may change the direction of this project. Should David Burkett (creator of Grin++ wallet) be part of the Grin core team?
Vote here: https://www.strawpoll.me/19637251

Man David quit crypto. Its been a while now. If you didnt know that, this might come as shock to you. But roughen up and hold your floor firmly however hard this info might be to stomach. David was a friend, seriously. I remember testing his head with a solid 30x9 inch red brick, that was more fun for me and him than my whole life prior to that. #Nostalgia. I clonked him with that red slab and cracked the skull above ear. We laughed!

Yup. Community driven dont mean that you order people what to do, but it mean that you can hire people to work on Grin. Neo-Geo, you could gather founds and try to convince him to come develop back or convince some other good developer to help with development.  You can be the change!

[ilyapx]

Network Upgrades / Hard forks on Grin v5.0.0 and beyond

https://forum.grin.mw/t/network-upgrades-hard-forks-on-grin-v5-0-0-and-beyond/7231

[tromp]

Final CuckARoo tweak announced at

https://forum.grin.mw/t/introducing-the-final-tweak-cuckarooz

[bbc.reporter]

@tromp. What can you say and do about this? I find it very unconvincing coming from a single person who runs shitcoin.com that spreads fear and doubt among the community while pumping and hyping the coins they like.



I had to read over much of the GRIN source code due to lack of documentation. The Rust code appeared to be written by someone with very little Rust programming experience.

Source https://twitter.com/abrkn/status/1262324530363629569

[AdamCox9]

I created an article on Medium about Grin: https://medium.com/@NewBtcOrder/grin-getting-started-c47947dc50bf?source=friends_link&sk=e243f4556da9f3c2a05c5b95dc14d483

[tromp]

The Rust code appeared to be written by someone with very little Rust programming experience.[/i]

Among the core devs, I am one of the few with little Rust programming experience.

I wrote large parts of https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/blob/master/core/src/consensus.rs and https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/blob/master/core/src/core/pmmr/pmmr.rs but most of my efforts are in the Cuckoo Cycle repository.

The twitter author would do well to substantiate their criticism on code quality.

I agree our documentation is below par and we hope to make improvements in the coming years as the code stabilizes.