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Author Topic: [ANN] Grin | PoW Mining | Electronic transactions for all. Community driven.  (Read 58682 times)
magisterr
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November 18, 2019, 08:52:00 AM
 #1401

I'm looking for an exchange I can buy grin. I used to use polo but us based so no can do. thank you

You can see exchanges where Grin listed here:

https://next-prod.coinmarketcap.com/currencies/grin/markets/

I would reccomend you Okex, Kucoin and Bibox (exchanges which I used and have not any problem).

Also, Grin listed to DEX exchange:

https://x.vite.net/trade?symbol=GRIN-000_ETH-000

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November 18, 2019, 03:43:45 PM
 #1402

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

Quote
TL;DR: Mimblewimble’s privacy is fundamentally flawed. Using only $60/week of AWS spend, I was able to uncover the exact addresses of senders and recipients for 96% Grin transactions in real time.

The problem is inherent to Mimblewimble, and I don’t believe there’s a way to fix it. This means Mimblewimble should no longer be considered a viable alternative to Zcash or Monero when it comes to privacy.

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November 18, 2019, 04:32:14 PM
Merited by Chris! (2), malevolent (1)
 #1403

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

Quote
TL;DR: Mimblewimble’s privacy is fundamentally flawed. Using only $60/week of AWS spend, I was able to uncover the exact addresses of senders and recipients for 96% Grin transactions in real time.

The problem is inherent to Mimblewimble, and I don’t believe there’s a way to fix it. This means Mimblewimble should no longer be considered a viable alternative to Zcash or Monero when it comes to privacy.

So he "researched" and found a limitation of MW known since 2016. That's $60 well wasted.

https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/wiki/Grin-and-MimbleWimble-vs-ZCash

Quote
While Grin transaction outputs are fully obscured, it's still possible to trace which inputs links to which outputs at least until some age. But it's unclear at this point what information could be derived from this.



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November 18, 2019, 07:34:23 PM
Merited by Chris! (2), malevolent (1)
 #1404


So he "researched" and found a limitation of MW known since 2016. That's $60 well wasted.

https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/wiki/Grin-and-MimbleWimble-vs-ZCash

Quote
While Grin transaction outputs are fully obscured, it's still possible to trace which inputs links to which outputs at least until some age. But it's unclear at this point what information could be derived from this.

Also, https://github.com/mimblewimble/docs/wiki/Grin-Privacy-Primer

Quote
Inputs and Outputs Linking

Transaction aggregation provides benefits, and the absence of useful information in either inputs or outputs complicates analysis drastically. However, there are techniques that can exploit linking between inputs and outputs to erode privacy guarantees. Practically, they all need to rely on having participated in a transaction "close to" the ones that need to be analyzed in order to gain additional information. By sending "tainted" outputs and following as they move through multiple transactions, information can still leak as these outputs can be followed after one hop, or statistically over multiple hops.

This is an area where more improvements from the Grin team can be expected in the future, after mainnet is released.
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November 19, 2019, 02:11:11 AM
Last edit: November 22, 2019, 03:52:20 AM by Hueristic
 #1405

Just a heads up guys, it is not a good Idea to be Holding right now.

Quote
Grin still affords a stronger privacy model than Bitcoin or other non-privacy coins, since amounts are safely encrypted. But Mimblewimble provides a strictly weaker privacy model than Zcash or Monero. This makes it insufficient for many real-world privacy use cases.


https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52


This is not FUD, just a heads up. I'm sure the Devs will address the issue if its possible.

I havn't spent any time in looking into this but wanted to give you guys a heads up asap.



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November 19, 2019, 02:19:42 AM
 #1406

Just a heads up guys, it is not a good Idea to be Holding right now.

Quote
Grin still affords a stronger privacy model than Bitcoin or other non-privacy coins, since amounts are safely encrypted. But Mimblewimble provides a strictly weaker privacy model than Zcash or Monero. This makes it insufficient for many real-world privacy use cases.


https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52


This is not FUD, just a heads up. I'm sure the Devs will address the issue if its possible.

I havn't spent any time in looking into this but wanted to give you guys a heads up asap.
Thanks to cAPSlOcK for pointing this out.

I'm a $GRIN fan and bagholder, I don't care about the privacy that they are facing right now but I'm unloading my big since yesterday, I'm more on chart analysis rather than the development. I'm not selling because of what you said. The chart of $GRIN is really bearish right now due to the effect of Bitcoin price. I still have high hope on MW protocol and probably will enter again once this bearish season was over. Can't afford to lose way higher if I stay on alt coins.

 
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November 19, 2019, 02:29:52 AM
 #1407

Just a heads up guys, it is not a good Idea to be Holding right now.

Quote
Grin still affords a stronger privacy model than Bitcoin or other non-privacy coins, since amounts are safely encrypted. But Mimblewimble provides a strictly weaker privacy model than Zcash or Monero. This makes it insufficient for many real-world privacy use cases.


https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52


This is not FUD, just a heads up. I'm sure the Devs will address the issue if its possible.

I havn't spent any time in looking into this but wanted to give you guys a heads up asap.
Thanks to cAPSlOcK for pointing this out.

I'm a $GRIN fan and bagholder, I don't care about the privacy that they are facing right now but I'm unloading my big since yesterday, I'm more on chart analysis rather than the development. I'm not selling because of what you said. The chart of $GRIN is really bearish right now due to the effect of Bitcoin price. I still have high hope on MW protocol and probably will enter again once this bearish season was over. Can't afford to lose way higher if I stay on alt coins.

This has not shaken my faith in Grins dev team but it looks like the protocol itself will need to be addressed and repaired so maybe a relaunch of the coin or a hard fork will be in order.

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November 19, 2019, 02:42:35 AM
 #1408

Just a heads up guys, it is not a good Idea to be Holding right now.

Quote
Grin still affords a stronger privacy model than Bitcoin or other non-privacy coins, since amounts are safely encrypted. But Mimblewimble provides a strictly weaker privacy model than Zcash or Monero. This makes it insufficient for many real-world privacy use cases.


https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52


This is not FUD, just a heads up. I'm sure the Devs will address the issue if its possible.

I havn't spent any time in looking into this but wanted to give you guys a heads up asap.
Thanks to cAPSlOcK for pointing this out.

I'm a $GRIN fan and bagholder, I don't care about the privacy that they are facing right now but I'm unloading my big since yesterday, I'm more on chart analysis rather than the development. I'm not selling because of what you said. The chart of $GRIN is really bearish right now due to the effect of Bitcoin price. I still have high hope on MW protocol and probably will enter again once this bearish season was over. Can't afford to lose way higher if I stay on alt coins.

This has not shaken my faith in Grins dev team but it looks like the protocol itself will need to be addressed and repaired so maybe a relaunch of the coin or a hard fork will be in order.

Relaunch is not necessary for the linkability issue of Mimblewimble protocol. I'm not pro at codes but hard fork is what I'm looking for as the best possible solution to address MW issue.
They can add a new way to improve MW so that the linkability issue can be solved. Grin is a solid project and I have 100% trust in devs. I'm sure they will come up with a solution to this issue
besides forking the coin.

 
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November 19, 2019, 05:04:39 AM
Last edit: November 19, 2019, 05:16:01 AM by Hueristic
 #1409


Relaunch is not necessary for the linkability issue of Mimblewimble protocol. I'm not pro at codes but hard fork is what I'm looking for as the best possible solution to address MW issue.
They can add a new way to improve MW so that the linkability issue can be solved. Grin is a solid project and I have 100% trust in devs. I'm sure they will come up with a solution to this issue
besides forking the coin.


Here is a rebuttal to the paper.

https://medium.com/p/8063371839b9/responses/show


Sounds good to me, move along nothing to see here.

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November 19, 2019, 05:58:26 AM
Merited by Hueristic (1)
 #1410

Here is a rebuttal to the paper.

https://medium.com/p/8063371839b9/responses/show


Sounds good to me, move along nothing to see here.

Thanks for sharing that. I wish that the markets had more trust on that as well... Well at least i can use this fear to fill some bags, it seems that the damage to the price is already happening.

 
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November 19, 2019, 02:34:23 PM
 #1411

Anonymity protocols need to evolve and work to improve constantly. This is not new. This is the case for Grin and Beam, but it is also the case on Monero, Zcash, Zcoin, .. Flaws have been found and solutions have been found or will be found. It's the evolution of technology.

Zcoin has stopped Zerocoin for a long time. Zcoin is based on Sigma now and will deploy Lelantus in the near future. For Beam and Grin, it's the same. These researches on possible faults are interesting and participate in the questioning of the protocol and its improvement!

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November 21, 2019, 04:14:41 AM
 #1412

Grin coin is one of limited altcoins that caught attention of theymos who integrated the second option to buy the forum's Coppermembership.
Days ago, he stated his opinion on the potential of development in a very long term aspect. The Grin coin rallied impressively and I congratulated for guys whom bought below 10k satoshis weeks ago.

Grin coin has lots of room for developments and growths.
AFAIK, that medium post is nothing new.

Base mimblewimble isn't really designed to be a "black box of reliable anonymity" in the way that Monero or Wasabi-CoinJoins are, where connections are hard-broken. It's more of a framework on which you could build solid anonymity using techniques that have largely not yet been perfected, plus major scaling benefits. Monero = CT + stealth addresses + ring signatures. Grin = CT + "stealth addresses" + mimblewimble. Because grin replaces ring signatures with mimblewimble, its privacy is less reliable than Monero's. Probably the grin developers have tried to make their mimblewimble transaction aggregation methods good, but I currently wouldn't put much faith in it, and IMO it'll take many years of research to get something really solid. That said, CT + stealth addresses offer a certain base level of privacy, and grin's method of handling stealth addresses (using an interactive protocol, exchanging "slates") is both more scalable than Monero and probably more private.

If your goal is to mix coins, grin is definitely not for you right now, and it may never be. Monero's goal is maximal privacy, regardless of the cost. Grin's goal is excellent privacy, consistent with scaling.

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|ROULETTE
MINES
TOWERS
DICE
CRASH
──── ─── ─
RivAngE
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November 21, 2019, 08:27:09 AM
 #1413

So he "researched" and found a limitation of MW known since 2016. That's $60 well wasted.

https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/wiki/Grin-and-MimbleWimble-vs-ZCash

Quote
While Grin transaction outputs are fully obscured, it's still possible to trace which inputs links to which outputs at least until some age. But it's unclear at this point what information could be derived from this.

Regarding the "...at least until some age" part,
I don't understand what the age of the blockchain has to do with this, probably because I didn't understand the exact method of this "attack" (I don't like to call it attack though since it's not damaging the integrity of the blockchain nor steals anyone's funds).

If I would make a guess, is it because the more people use GRIN and the more transactions are being broadcast, it becomes less possible to trace an individual transaction?
suchmoon
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November 21, 2019, 06:03:37 PM
 #1414

Regarding the "...at least until some age" part,
I don't understand what the age of the blockchain has to do with this, probably because I didn't understand the exact method of this "attack" (I don't like to call it attack though since it's not damaging the integrity of the blockchain nor steals anyone's funds).

If I would make a guess, is it because the more people use GRIN and the more transactions are being broadcast, it becomes less possible to trace an individual transaction?

By "age" they could have meant that linking is possible only early in the transaction broadcast process. Once the block is confirmed all inputs and outputs are in one big coinjoin, so it's much harder to figure out what goes where, especially since the amounts are not visible. And after the outputs are spent a few more times it becomes even harder.

And yes, the more transactions in a block the better it is for privacy.

DMDCreeper
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November 22, 2019, 11:35:40 AM
 #1415

I'm a $GRIN fan and bagholder, I don't care about the privacy that they are facing right now but I'm unloading my big since yesterday, I'm more on chart analysis rather than the development. I'm not selling because of what you said. The chart of $GRIN is really bearish right now due to the effect of Bitcoin price. I still have high hope on MW protocol and probably will enter again once this bearish season was over. Can't afford to lose way higher if I stay on alt coins.

Looks like you sold your bag just few days before -20% drop. Good catch!
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November 23, 2019, 05:03:11 PM
 #1416

Just a heads up guys, it is not a good Idea to be Holding right now.

Quote
Grin still affords a stronger privacy model than Bitcoin or other non-privacy coins, since amounts are safely encrypted. But Mimblewimble provides a strictly weaker privacy model than Zcash or Monero. This makes it insufficient for many real-world privacy use cases.


https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52


This is not FUD, just a heads up. I'm sure the Devs will address the issue if its possible.

I havn't spent any time in looking into this but wanted to give you guys a heads up asap.




I see him laying feces on mimblewimble in that medium article but I see no proof of the statement in the first paragraph. Can it be presented in the form of a proof? I can say that I could unveil sendees and senders in every single monero transaction but what will that account for without a shred of a proof. Disclaimer: Im not buying any of privacy coins. Will only buy when it tanks like 100 times of the current value.
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November 24, 2019, 05:38:13 AM
 #1417

Just a heads up guys, it is not a good Idea to be Holding right now.

Quote
Grin still affords a stronger privacy model than Bitcoin or other non-privacy coins, since amounts are safely encrypted. But Mimblewimble provides a strictly weaker privacy model than Zcash or Monero. This makes it insufficient for many real-world privacy use cases.


https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52


This is not FUD, just a heads up. I'm sure the Devs will address the issue if its possible.

I havn't spent any time in looking into this but wanted to give you guys a heads up asap.




I see him laying feces on mimblewimble in that medium article but I see no proof of the statement in the first paragraph. Can it be presented in the form of a proof? I can say that I could unveil sendees and senders in every single monero transaction but what will that account for without a shred of a proof. Disclaimer: Im not buying any of privacy coins. Will only buy when it tanks like 100 times of the current value.


Why don't you try reading the rest of the thread, specifically this post.



Here is a rebuttal to the paper.

https://medium.com/p/8063371839b9/responses/show


Sounds good to me, move along nothing to see here.

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November 29, 2019, 04:05:26 AM
 #1418

I'm looking for an exchange I can buy grin. I used to use polo but us based so no can do. thank you

You can see exchanges where Grin listed here:

https://next-prod.coinmarketcap.com/currencies/grin/markets/

I would reccomend you Okex, Kucoin and Bibox (exchanges which I used and have not any problem).

Also, Grin listed to DEX exchange:

https://x.vite.net/trade?symbol=GRIN-000_ETH-000

However, do Okex, Kucoin and Bibox not require their users to do give up identification and other private documents?

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......Play......
BLACKCOIN883
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November 29, 2019, 01:30:12 PM
 #1419

How's GRIN or Monero or others not absolute as soon as ETH will have privacy? I'm not a troll, I'm honestly curious if there's any argument against what I'm saying.
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November 29, 2019, 04:20:46 PM
 #1420

How's GRIN or Monero or others not absolute as soon as ETH will have privacy?

Absolutely!
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