[ANN] Grin | PoW Mining | Electronic transactions for all. Community driven.

[Texacha]

Actually, I'm expecting the block reward to be a reason for GRIN to fork split down the road, when the community will be divided between reducing the block reward or sticking with their initial announcement.

Actually, I find your opinions to be very rational and I have to agree again.

[dungp3132]

Grin coin is the hottest altcoins launched in 2018, and it has still been the hottest in early months of 2019.
Miners, traders, investors, crypto enthusiasts, lots of people have interests and huge demand on Grin coin.
I believe that after next two or three years, Grin coin will jump into the top 50 on coinmarketcap, at least.

[Texacha]

 Did I tard out and miss a memo somewhere ?
 I thought the emission-rate was always going to be 60 coins per minute, forever.

If you look percentages, inflation is same like any other coin have.
When 4 years pass, then we will see inflation bigger than Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ravencoin or any other similar coin have, since there is no halving. In fifth year of mining, GRIN will have 25% yearly inflation since there is no halving and Bitcoin or Ravencoin for example had/will have 12.5% per year. Until fifth year, inflation is exactly same.

[pbfarmer]

If you look percentages, inflation is same like any other coin have.
When 4 years pass, then we will see inflation bigger than Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ravencoin or any other similar coin have, since there is no halving. In fifth year of mining, GRIN will have 25% yearly inflation since there is no halving and Bitcoin or Ravencoin for example had/will have 12.5% per year. Until fifth year, inflation is exactly same.

I'm not sure I entirely get this "inflation vs block reward reduction" issue, clearly.

Is the implication that 1 GRIN I own today, will be worth less in 4 years ?

I understand that 1 BTC == 1 BTC, but with inflation and GRIN, I'm not sure what the long-term implications are for this project, and the risk-reward effort of mining this stuff.

Math is not a strong suit of mine, unfortunately.

I'm just here because of that Theymos guy.

Bottom line, the 'block reward reduction' of BTC is really just the means to the end of a fixed supply.  That fixed supply is the real consideration -- it incentivizes hoarding, and therefore is more suited to an 'investment' or store of value.  Compare this to GRIN, which has an unlimited supply, which puts constant downward pressure on the value (until/unless emission gets to replacement parity), and therefore incentivizes 'working capital' - i.e. use as a medium of exchange.

In short, yes, 1 GRIN you own today should be worth less not just in 4 years, but tomorrow, before any considerations of current fair value and/or speculative pressures.

[Dig Bicks]

won't be long until it goes under $1, sorry to say this but your an idiot if you are buying at the current price with the massive inflation rate.

[Hueristic]

Please explain this to me again, I guess maybe I have no reading comprehension?

https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/blob/master/doc/grin4bitcoiners.md

"For first 4 years" is the key in my statement.

@RivAnge
Neither Ethereum had or have max supply. Overall, I agree with almost everything you wrote.

I think your math sucks, try doing it again.

[Texacha]

I think your math sucks, try doing it again.

Oh, I suck at lot of things in life, but math.... never.

[RivAngE]

If you look percentages, inflation is same like any other coin have.
When 4 years pass, then we will see inflation bigger than Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ravencoin or any other similar coin have, since there is no halving. In fifth year of mining, GRIN will have 25% yearly inflation since there is no halving and Bitcoin or Ravencoin for example had/will have 12.5% per year. Until fifth year, inflation is exactly same.

I'm not sure I entirely get this "inflation vs block reward reduction" issue, clearly.

Is the implication that 1 GRIN I own today, will be worth less in 4 years ?

I understand that 1 BTC == 1 BTC, but with inflation and GRIN, I'm not sure what the long-term implications are for this project, and the risk-reward effort of mining this stuff.

Math is not a strong suit of mine, unfortunately.

I'm just here because of that Theymos guy.

pbfarmer gave a correct explanation, but I'll try offer an example with numbers.

BITCOIN
Coins issued per day: 1800 BTC (12.5 BTC per 10 minutes)
Current price: 3800$
Current MarketCap.: $67 billions

GRIN
Coins issued per day: 86400 GRIN (60 GRIN per 1 minute)
Current price: 3.80$
Current MarketCap.: $14 millions

Now imagine that every day people are spending dollars to buy Bitcoin. There are some who would sell but after subtracting this amount, we have an overall amount of 6,840,000$ fresh fiat spent to buy Bitcoin.
They keep buying Bitcoin every day and forever and the amounts stay the same.
If they'd buy every Bitcoin for 3800$ each, they'd buy all the 1800 issued Bitcoins and the price wouldn't move at all.

When the issued Bitcoins are halved, if the interest for Bitcoin is still the same, there won't be enough mined coins for all the buyers. Therefore they'll have to buy from the market, raising the price until we reach a price where the interest to buy is reduced.
This bold sentence is the essence of the matter and why people are suggesting that GRIN won't enjoy very high prices.
Sure, there are many more factors than just the inflation rate, but the inflation rate is the most predictable and known factor of them all. It's logical that speculators and especially investors will weigh heavily this factor.
For example we can't know what amount of coins will be dumped by the miners.

By the way, GRIN requires 328,320$ every day to hold this price.

[tromp]

BITCOIN
Coins issued per day: 360 BTC (2.5 BTC per 10 minutes)

Make that 1800 BTC (12.5 BTC per 10 minutes) ...

[RivAngE]

BITCOIN
Coins issued per day: 360 BTC (2.5 BTC per 10 minutes)

Make that 1800 BTC (12.5 BTC per 10 minutes) ...

Oops! Fixed now! Yes, the number looks better now, thanks for letting me know!
Those figures... they make you wonder just how much money is required to keep so many different cryptocoins floating.

[mindrust]

By the way, GRIN requires 328,320$ every day to hold this price.

That's too much for a small market cap coin. 1/20 of bitcoin's daily FIAT meal.

If you make the same calculation for LTC, it is 14400coins x $44 = $633k / daily need to keep the LTC price stable.

LTC is the 5th biggest coin.

GRIN is 199th.

Doesn't look good.

Imma buyer at $0.5.

[notocactus]

That's too much for a small market cap coin. 1/20 of bitcoin's daily FIAT meal.

If you make the same calculation for LTC, it is 14400coins x $44 = $633k / daily need to keep the LTC price stable.

LTC is the 5th biggest coin.

GRIN is 199th.

Doesn't look good.

Imma buyer at $0.5.

Nice comparision.
Theymos, months ago, in December of 2018, stated that he believed Grincoin price might decrease over time since its start.
The FOMO-period likely gone away, let's see how deeply the Grin coin will fall.

[tromp]

By the way, GRIN requires 328,320$ every day to hold this price.

That's too much for a small market cap coin. 1/20 of bitcoin's daily FIAT meal.

If you make the same calculation for LTC, it is 14400coins x $44 = $633k / daily need to keep the LTC price stable.

LTC is the 5th biggest coin.

GRIN is 199th.

Doesn't look good.

Imma buyer at $0.5.

This argument strikes me as rather bogus.

LTC has way higher marketcap because it has had 2701 days of issuance, where Grin had only 44 days.

That in no way explains why Litecoin's daily issuance should be higher than Grin's.

Rather, it begs the question of why Litecoin deserves such a high daily issuance.

[BCMINER1911]

Your theory also makes the assumption that no miners are hodlers on the coin.  In my circles, most miners on new coins like Grin are speculative miners that are in for the long hodl, not mining just to sell immediately.

[mindrust]

Your theory also makes the assumption that no miners are hodlers on the coin.  In my circles, most miners on new coins like Grin are speculative miners that are in for the long hodl, not mining just to sell immediately.

If all miners hold what they mine, then who has been generating that $14million trading volume in the last 24 hours? Nope, not buying it.

Miners are dumping them.

That's the general rule of mining anyway.

GRIN is a lot more profitable to mine than other GPU coins. Because of that, miners are dumping their coins for FIAT. It would be dumb if they didn't. That's how mining works. Miners are in for FIAT profits. (at least most of them) Big operations have high electricity and maintenance costs, even if they wanted to hodl GRIN, at some point they HAVE TO sell some. It is not a matter of want or not want, they have no other choice.

If all miners were running 1 gpu each, nobody would give a fuck about the mining costs probably but that's not how it is.

[RivAngE]

If all miners were running 1 gpu each, nobody would give a fuck about the mining costs probably but that's not how it is.

Ye well... that's what I remember mining be like, a hobby for enthusiasts, not a game of greedy people where each one tries to outmatch the other.
We've end up with a system that's cannibalising itself.

When cryptocoins were supposed to empower the people equally, the mining business has ended up making rich people richer again. A lot of money have gone/are going out of the ecosystem and into (1) GPU manufacturers and re-sellers, (2) electricity providers and the most evil of all, (3) ASIC manufacturers who overcharge their products, many of which never reaching ROI for holders.

I was kinda happy with the bear market because all the greedy people got punished, maybe with the next bull market people will have learnt their lesson and won't rush to waste money in anything other than buying their favourite coin. Unfortunately, if GRIN's difficulty to go higher in price is an indicator, it seems we still have GPU farms mining for the sake of paying their electricity.
I guess this bear market has still some way to go!

[tbct_mt2]

For any coins, miners are not holders, I believe.
Most of them, more exactly, are not holders.
Why I thought like this?
Because miners have to get their money back to pay for electricity bills.
They probably sell all their coins to cash out, take profits, pay bills; or simply sell parts of their coins.
No one knows, but we absolutely know that miners have to sell their coins when they need money.
Of course, miners need money for sure.

If all miners hold what they mine, then who has been generating that $14million trading volume in the last 24 hours? Nope, not buying it.

They dumped from time to time, at highs when they feel that is right time to take profits, or even at lows when they need money.

Miners are dumping them.

I can not disagree with you, fella.

That's the general rule of mining anyway.

Profitable really?
I can even not mine the coin with my graphic cards 4 GB in mem.

GRIN is a lot more profitable to mine than other GPU coins.

[BCMINER1911]

Did i say all miners are hodlers?  No, i said you're assuming all miners are dumpers. 

[Piston Honda]

lmao i see this garbage is still going.
nice chart btw  
keep being rekt on vapors.

[Hueristic]

If all miners were running 1 gpu each, nobody would give a fuck about the mining costs probably but that's not how it is.

Ye well... that's what I remember mining be like, a hobby for enthusiasts, not a game of greedy people where each one tries to outmatch the other.
We've end up with a system that's cannibalising itself.

When cryptocoins were supposed to empower the people equally, the mining business has ended up making rich people richer again. A lot of money have gone/are going out of the ecosystem and into (1) GPU manufacturers and re-sellers, (2) electricity providers and the most evil of all, (3) ASIC manufacturers who overcharge their products, many of which never reaching ROI for holders.

I was kinda happy with the bear market because all the greedy people got punished, maybe with the next bull market people will have learnt their lesson and won't rush to waste money in anything other than buying their favourite coin. Unfortunately, if GRIN's difficulty to go higher in price is an indicator, it seems we still have GPU farms mining for the sake of paying their electricity.
I guess this bear market has still some way to go!

Bolded, You give them far too much credit.

lmao i see this garbage is still going.

What is your major malfunction ?

He has a shitcoin and is butt hurt.