Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[JayJuanGee]

Historically in bitcoin, in a year's time, there are always dips, even if the year happens to be a bullrun year - however, I probably agree with both you ginsan and with RewFrew (you guys don't seem to be saying anything much different from one another), that there may well be times in which whatever dip that we are experiencing might end up being all the dip that we are going to end up getting, and the dip might not end up getting any lower than the current price.. yet when we are in such situations, we are hardly ever really going to have a lot of realistic and accurate information to conclusively know if the BTC price is going to dip any further within this streak (correction) or not.

That is the volatility in Bitcoin DCA value, its always unstable and there is the possibility to have a bear market and a bull market in the same cycle let's say in the 1-year range we see multiple times when Bitcoin change its direction in price and this has been the market sentiment over the years and that is not going to change since it the nature of the market, bitcoin is designed to remain volatile in price and that is what makes it a speculative asset.

I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying Odusko in regards to both the advantages of DCA and the difficuties to figure out BTC price directions during short timelines; however, I may had misspoken a little bit in terms of whether I consider it to be realistic or even meaningful to be labelling switches from bullmarket (or bullcycle) in terms of short-term BTC price happenings, and in that regard, I refuse to accept some of the traditional market assessments regarding what is considered to be bull or bear markets, and largely so far in bitcoin's history, price cycles have tended to play out in four year periods, and it can be quite difficult to know (or to have solid conviction) whether a bottom (or a top) is in, and frequently we are not going to really know until quite far down the road, so there is a bit of a lagging indication regarding whether the bear market is over or the bull market is over.. ..

I respect the views of you guys, however, let me ship my little idea.

Many assume a lot with Bitcoin psychology, while many are just lucky with their assumptions at times, but still, there are good speculators that don't do that. I am such that believes in not just calling Dump, Pump, or Hodl without a basis for it. It might depend on the angle at which one looks at the market through the tradition/theory/cycle they believe in, but the market will remain the market, and Bitcoin is not an exception so far it's charted. This is why we will always be seen the bottom, peak, and sideways (neutral) in every market including Bitcoin and it might be for either short, medium or long-term, it doesn't market.

That said, there is a basis to knowing these levels and conditions, particularly on the chart, and as an experienced speculator, I know when there are short, medium and long-term actions whether it's to buy, sell or pause the action. And if anyone doesn't want to believe that it's possible, then it's a choice but has been guiding all professional traders around the world.

The market has its psychology, and the psychology could be known under careful studies, while the approach used matters too. And presently, on the long-term view, Bitcoin has bottomed at $15,413 (November 2022's low), it's all bullish now unless it slips below the level. Elliot wave theory, Fibonacci and Trendline studies on both the weekly and monthly charts confirmed it. 'You can take my word for it.'
.
Bitcoin will not meet that quoted bottom in the next 2 years. Speculative analysis may not be perfect and also be viewed as a possibility, but when it has been successfully guiding someone with about 85-95% accuracy, then it's worth using.

It sounds to me as if you are trying to sell some kind of a trading package, and the vast majority of longer term HODLers in bitcoin do way better by erroring on the side of buying and accumulating rather than trading.

Yeah, sure it is possible to be profitable with trading and it is even more likely that positions can be bolstered by attempting to buy more when the BTC price is down; however, it way more likely that normies are going to do way worse in their BTC accumulation (and therefore future profits) if they fuck around with trading... beyond maybe some minor attempts to buy more during dip periods...and erroring on the side of mostly just regular and persistent buying and accumulating of BTC and increasing their wealth (or likely wealth) through such ongoing, regular and persistent accumulating/buying efforts.

[1714590132]

1714590132

[1714590132]

1714590132

[Hamza2424]

It sounds to me as if you are trying to sell some kind of a trading package, and the vast majority of longer term HODLers in bitcoin do way better by erroring on the side of buying and accumulating rather than trading.

Yeah, sure it is possible to be profitable with trading and it is even more likely that positions can be bolstered by attempting to buy more when the BTC price is down; however, it way more likely that normies are going to do way worse in their BTC accumulation (and therefore future profits) if they fuck around with trading... beyond maybe some minor attempts to buy more during dip periods...and erroring on the side of mostly just regular and persistent buying and accumulating of BTC and increasing their wealth (or likely wealth) through such ongoing, regular and persistent accumulating/buying efforts.

Very well said JJG even I have some living examples in my network who owned a good amount of Bitcoins and they went for trading to increase the number of their holdings but it went into reverse mode and lost around 25%. Avoiding loss is also considered as Profit. So your advice is acceptable for those who don't know the market behaviors and trading skills.

Whoever wants to start accumulating Bitcoin whether in a Bearish market, Consolidation, or Bull market in every circumstance the DCA works efficiently to provide a reasonable average price of the Investment.

[EarnOnVictor]

Historically in bitcoin, in a year's time, there are always dips, even if the year happens to be a bullrun year - however, I probably agree with both you ginsan and with RewFrew (you guys don't seem to be saying anything much different from one another), that there may well be times in which whatever dip that we are experiencing might end up being all the dip that we are going to end up getting, and the dip might not end up getting any lower than the current price.. yet when we are in such situations, we are hardly ever really going to have a lot of realistic and accurate information to conclusively know if the BTC price is going to dip any further within this streak (correction) or not.

That is the volatility in Bitcoin DCA value, its always unstable and there is the possibility to have a bear market and a bull market in the same cycle let's say in the 1-year range we see multiple times when Bitcoin change its direction in price and this has been the market sentiment over the years and that is not going to change since it the nature of the market, bitcoin is designed to remain volatile in price and that is what makes it a speculative asset.

I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying Odusko in regards to both the advantages of DCA and the difficuties to figure out BTC price directions during short timelines; however, I may had misspoken a little bit in terms of whether I consider it to be realistic or even meaningful to be labelling switches from bullmarket (or bullcycle) in terms of short-term BTC price happenings, and in that regard, I refuse to accept some of the traditional market assessments regarding what is considered to be bull or bear markets, and largely so far in bitcoin's history, price cycles have tended to play out in four year periods, and it can be quite difficult to know (or to have solid conviction) whether a bottom (or a top) is in, and frequently we are not going to really know until quite far down the road, so there is a bit of a lagging indication regarding whether the bear market is over or the bull market is over.. ..

I respect the views of you guys, however, let me ship my little idea.

Many assume a lot with Bitcoin psychology, while many are just lucky with their assumptions at times, but still, there are good speculators that don't do that. I am such that believes in not just calling Dump, Pump, or Hodl without a basis for it. It might depend on the angle at which one looks at the market through the tradition/theory/cycle they believe in, but the market will remain the market, and Bitcoin is not an exception so far it's charted. This is why we will always be seen the bottom, peak, and sideways (neutral) in every market including Bitcoin and it might be for either short, medium or long-term, it doesn't market.

That said, there is a basis to knowing these levels and conditions, particularly on the chart, and as an experienced speculator, I know when there are short, medium and long-term actions whether it's to buy, sell or pause the action. And if anyone doesn't want to believe that it's possible, then it's a choice but has been guiding all professional traders around the world.

The market has its psychology, and the psychology could be known under careful studies, while the approach used matters too. And presently, on the long-term view, Bitcoin has bottomed at $15,413 (November 2022's low), it's all bullish now unless it slips below the level. Elliot wave theory, Fibonacci and Trendline studies on both the weekly and monthly charts confirmed it. 'You can take my word for it.'
.
Bitcoin will not meet that quoted bottom in the next 2 years. Speculative analysis may not be perfect and also be viewed as a possibility, but when it has been successfully guiding someone with about 85-95% accuracy, then it's worth using.

It sounds to me as if you are trying to sell some kind of a trading package, and the vast majority of longer term HODLers in bitcoin do way better by erroring on the side of buying and accumulating rather than trading.

Yeah, sure it is possible to be profitable with trading and it is even more likely that positions can be bolstered by attempting to buy more when the BTC price is down; however, it way more likely that normies are going to do way worse in their BTC accumulation (and therefore future profits) if they fuck around with trading... beyond maybe some minor attempts to buy more during dip periods...and erroring on the side of mostly just regular and persistent buying and accumulating of BTC and increasing their wealth (or likely wealth) through such ongoing, regular and persistent accumulating/buying efforts.

Lol, I perfectly agree with you and no one is perhaps selling anything here, and what's it to sell? Me, I so much understand you, just trying to explain how else an effective way to know the market psychology. Mind you, you might see it in the way of trading, but it's way beyond that, I see it in the way of speculation which both traders and investors could benefit from.

Our styles and ideology on this might not be the same but I can assure you that it's still towards the same goal.

[salad daging]

Very well said JJG even I have some living examples in my network who owned a good amount of Bitcoins and they went for trading to increase the number of their holdings but it went into reverse mode and lost around 25%. Avoiding loss is also considered as Profit. So your advice is acceptable for those who don't know the market behaviors and trading skills.

Whoever wants to start accumulating Bitcoin whether in a Bearish market, Consolidation, or Bull market in every circumstance the DCA works efficiently to provide a reasonable average price of the Investment.

Actually it's not easy to read the behavior of the market in trading it will be much more complicated if they want to increase it there whereas the convenience of owning bitcoin is much more meaningful which will avoid losses of course in BTC trading it will be very difficult to gain so I also not against trading, you will be more comfortable with the accumulation of additional money because if you trade, you will definitely rotate the capital that has been built from the start.

DCA is a healthy way for us to continue to accumulate, the pressure here is not too heavy when there is additional money to enter DCA and let it run according to the cash flow you want as long as you can manage it properly.

Whatever it is financial management is very important.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Lol, I perfectly agree with you and no one is perhaps selling anything here, and what's it to sell? Me, I so much understand you, just trying to explain how else an effective way to know the market psychology. Mind you, you might see it in the way of trading, but it's way beyond that, I see it in the way of speculation which both traders and investors could benefit from.

Our styles and ideology on this might not be the same but I can assure you that it's still towards the same goal.

Fair enough in regards to your attempt to describe some sharing of values, yet I would expect that each person is going to differ in regards to the various ways that they accumulate BTC, maintain their BTC stash or even engage in liquidation practices.. .. and some folks will be more introspective in terms of analyzing their budget and their practices, and other people will resort to gambling tactics/techniques, and perhaps there could be some shared intentions in terms of "everyone wants to get richie," but at the same time, some folks will not engage in certain risks, and/or they might also consider certain practices to be morally reprehensible, so they won't do them, even though they might be able to get rich by scamming others.. for example.

There are all kinds of variations including that each of us likely will be coming to different assessments in terms of how we choose to invest that should include some kinds of assessment regarding our particulars related to cashflow, how much bitcoin you have already accumulated, your other investments, your view of bitcoin as compared with other investments, timeline, risk tolerance, and your time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets) and your abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time to consider trading, reallocating, use of leverage and/or financial instruments.

Some people are going to be more thorough than others in terms of tailorizing their approach to their own circumstances, and some people will learn how to improve their techniques along the way, so sometimes their earlier errors might contribute to their improvement, and surely some people do not ever overcome their willingness to take risks... even if it might not be for their own good - and even other people have difficulties learning from their past mistakes so they end up repeating past mistakes over and over and over.

You may or may not come to success through trading or through selling BTC on the way up and buying on the way down, and personally, I remain quite reluctant to suggest anyone engage in any kinds of meaningful selling of bitcoin on the way up in order to buy more on the way down, even though I am accepting of such a practice in moderation.. and I already know from experience that there are a lot of people who have real difficult times being moderate in their actions or even difficulties in weighing how to go about moderate kinds of practices.. and some people are never going to even agree with a "moderation" framework, but instead believe "in themselves" and believe that they can "beat the odds," which sometimes may well end up being true, even though many times it is not true.. and even sometimes emotions get in the way.. and such emotions could have had been sparked from their past practices or even traumatic experiences that they had in their lives or maybe such emotions might ONLY come on the margins in certain stressful times in which it becomes difficult to control emotions (and they may or may not even be able to realize it, while it is happening) and then causing them to do the wrong things (in terms of failing to buy or selling too soon or some variation of such).

So, there may be ways in which people share practices, but when push comes to shove, there likely are a lot of variations in terms of how values and personalities and personal circumstances are going to affect what people do, whether they end up profiting from their practices or not.

[imamusma]

So, there may be ways in which people share practices, but when push comes to shove, there likely are a lot of variations in terms of how values and personalities and personal circumstances are going to affect what people do, whether they end up profiting from their practices or not.

I must say that this is an absolutely correct conclusion and one of the facts that many investors have experienced. We can only plan something consistently, but in practice it is difficult and it is still very possible to change, especially when we are faced with a precarious situation.

Strategy does not have to be rigid, while it can still be adjusted over time as long as the goal is achieved. There's no need to force it, and it should be something that's done as simply as possible.

[ginsan]

I must say that this is an absolutely correct conclusion and one of the facts that many investors have experienced. We can only plan something consistently, but in practice it is difficult and it is still very possible to change, especially when we are faced with a precarious situation.

Strategy does not have to be rigid, while it can still be adjusted over time as long as the goal is achieved. There's no need to force it, and it should be something that's done as simply as possible.

as simple as possible, can you interpret this to provide broader insight. I'm not going to do something that I've missed in previous years I mean not gradually accumulating bitcoin in my portfolio. So going back to the basics and building awareness of things that have happened before to do it in each period with the DCA strategy and have a bit of an aggressive spirit that I can increase when I get higher earnings.

In adjusting the level of purchases, investors generally do it gradually, and they also do it repeatedly until they get a certain momentum in each of their purchases to multiply aggressively when they have the confidence to do so.

[Kaliandra]

So, there may be ways in which people share practices, but when push comes to shove, there likely are a lot of variations in terms of how values and personalities and personal circumstances are going to affect what people do, whether they end up profiting from their practices or not.

I must say that this is an absolutely correct conclusion and one of the facts that many investors have experienced. We can only plan something consistently, but in practice it is difficult and it is still very possible to change, especially when we are faced with a precarious situation.

Strategy does not have to be rigid, while it can still be adjusted over time as long as the goal is achieved. There's no need to force it, and it should be something that's done as simply as possible.

yes, and we as human beings and given reason and mind by God,
so we have to be able to think well and we have to learn to strategize and we have to fight as hard as we can.
and invest in btc in my opinion need an investment trading strategy and so on.

and usually many people are forced to sell btc because of emergencies such as illness,
which of course requires a large fee.

and in my opinion it would be better if a btc investor has a health card or health insurance. With the aim not to interfere with investing in btc.

[Rabata]

Yeah, sure it is possible to be profitable with trading and it is even more likely that positions can be bolstered by attempting to buy more when the BTC price is down; however, it way more likely that normies are going to do way worse in their BTC accumulation (and therefore future profits) if they fuck around with trading... beyond maybe some minor attempts to buy more during dip periods...and erroring on the side of mostly just regular and persistent buying and accumulating of BTC and increasing their wealth (or likely wealth) through such ongoing, regular and persistent accumulating/buying efforts.

As a small bitcoin holder i dare not to trade with BTC if I wish. Because volatility might eat up my little BTC. But for small holders I think holding Bitcoin is more suitable than trading. A trader is not always profitable. But I want to keep myself out of this calculation of profit or loss and try to keep up with DCA. There are many small BTC holders like me who were afraid to dream. Today they dare to dream that is only by holding BTC. A big trader might be able to temporarily invest in Bitcoin and walk away with money but there are many holders like us who choose Bitcoin as their permanent asset. More than gold or any other precious commodity, BTC has come to be considered a permanent asset to our holders. When the price of Bitcoin falls, some people express disappointment, but some holders like us smile because there will be an opportunity to buy Bitcoin at a lower price.

[JayJuanGee]

Yeah, sure it is possible to be profitable with trading and it is even more likely that positions can be bolstered by attempting to buy more when the BTC price is down; however, it way more likely that normies are going to do way worse in their BTC accumulation (and therefore future profits) if they fuck around with trading... beyond maybe some minor attempts to buy more during dip periods...and erroring on the side of mostly just regular and persistent buying and accumulating of BTC and increasing their wealth (or likely wealth) through such ongoing, regular and persistent accumulating/buying efforts.

As a small bitcoin holder i dare not to trade with BTC if I wish. Because volatility might eat up my little BTC. But for small holders I think holding Bitcoin is more suitable than trading.

I somewhat understand what you are saying about some of the additional considerations in regards to being small, yet I would somewhat fight about this idea - and even Wind_FURY has brought it up many times..... and I tended to ongoingly assert that management of your BTC holdings (or even your cashflow) is not so much about how BIG or small you are, but instead in regards to reaching certain levels of profitability.

Of course, there can be confusion and overlap of the ideas because if you are early in your wealth accumulation, it may well NOT really seem like very much money that you are working with, and if you are adding $10 per week, it could take a long time to reach any kind of meaningful levels of accumulation... .. so sometimes we might consider what is the annual amount that we need to live, and if we were saving/investing 10% of our annual income, it may well take us 10 years to reach 1 year's annual income (that is if the investment asset merely just keeps up with inflation)... so yeah, if we had been investing for a while, then we might start to have several years worth of income in our investment portfolio.. and so then we are likely at more liberty to manage our holdings in different ways, and surely I have not been an advocate of selling any BTC prior to reaching a certain level of investment comfort (which likely is going to vary from individual to individual) and so for me, we are on a similar page in terms of talking about building to get up to a certain level, and selling is not part of the strategy to build.. .

A trader is not always profitable.

I suppose that I mostly agree with this because once any of us gets to a state that we are able to sell on the way up (rather than just merely buying regularly and buying on the way down), we probably should be selling on the way up just to be able to offset some of our already having had achieved overexposure to the asset (in this case bitcoin), so maybe we start out by investing around 10% of our annual salary into bitcoin, and then maybe we do not have any other investments, so after a few years, we might start to get close to having all our investments ONLY in bitcoin, so in those kinds of cases, there may be some considerations regarding how to diversify some of the value out.. even though it is not necessarily a good idea to diversify out of winners and then end up investing in losers.

In terms of diversification, I am not referring to shitcoins, but instead diversifying out of bitcoin and into other asset classes.. maybe property and index funds.. and so these are difficult choices when trying to build wealth... and it is not so much about trading even though there may well be strategies that contribute to differing ways of portfolio management and investing into other items that might be affected more by if the price of BTC is either up or down.. and another difficulty is trying to be able to identify which asset might be more up or down than others, especially right now when the market value of so many asset classes is perverted by cheap money and outrageously and increasing levels of overall debt in society that systematically ends up affecting everyone and all of the various possible investments that can be made.

But I want to keep myself out of this calculation of profit or loss and try to keep up with DCA. There are many small BTC holders like me who were afraid to dream. Today they dare to dream that is only by holding BTC. A big trader might be able to temporarily invest in Bitcoin and walk away with money but there are many holders like us who choose Bitcoin as their permanent asset. More than gold or any other precious commodity, BTC has come to be considered a permanent asset to our holders. When the price of Bitcoin falls, some people express disappointment, but some holders like us smile because there will be an opportunity to buy Bitcoin at a lower price.

That does seem like a healthy way to think about your bitcoin while you are building the size of your holdings, and surely it is possible that it could take less than 10 years to reach 1 year worth of salary, even though historically, there have been some folks who ended up accelerating their wealth appreciation through their ongoing increasing of their BTC stash that ended up paying off when BTC prices went up.. and yeah, we know that there are no guarantees.. but still at minimum, many of us are still going to hope that after 5 or 10 years or more investing into bitcoin that we would be able to look back and see that bitcoin was at least as good of an investment as anything else that we might have had been able to invest into, and it would be icing on the cake if bitcoin were to have had outperformed other asset classes, even though surely there are no guarantees that it is going to have had outperformed all asset classes, and we merely are making an asymmetric bet in that potential for profit direction that may or may not end up playing out.

[Odusko]

It sounds to me as if you are trying to sell some kind of a trading package, and the vast majority of longer term HODLers in bitcoin do way better by erroring on the side of buying and accumulating rather than trading.

Long term holding far more better and less risky, compared to trading, which is why i spend more time on reading Bitcoin speculative comments rathers to look for a trading package, because, by accumulating Bitcoin consistently I will arrive.at my financial goals easily and securely but unlike trading which is a gamble, one can lose everything at some point so i will rather hold for the long term rather than to risk everything trying to catch in on short-term trading gains.

Yeah, sure it is possible to be profitable with trading and it is even more likely that positions can be bolstered by attempting to buy more when the BTC price is down; however, it was more likely that normies are going to do way worse in their BTC accumulation (and therefore future profits) if they fuck around with trading... beyond maybe some minor attempts to buy more during dip periods...and erroring on the side of mostly just regular and persistent buying and accumulating of BTC and increasing their wealth (or likely wealth) through such ongoing, regular and persistent accumulating/buying efforts.

I think buying more Bitcoin during a dip period shouldn't be considered as trading, even though that is what it is in practice, but also since accumulation is done occasionally, it cant be referred to as passive trading since a buyer may not even take note or try to take advantage of any leverage, all a holder does is to make a new purchase at internal unlike like passive traders, who are engaged with the market constantly and this activity reflect the activeness in day to day trading.

[JayJuanGee]

It sounds to me as if you are trying to sell some kind of a trading package, and the vast majority of longer term HODLers in bitcoin do way better by erroring on the side of buying and accumulating rather than trading.

Long term holding far more better and less risky, compared to trading, which is why i spend more time on reading Bitcoin speculative comments rathers to look for a trading package, because, by accumulating Bitcoin consistently I will arrive.at my financial goals easily and securely but unlike trading which is a gamble, one can lose everything at some point so i will rather hold for the long term rather than to risk everything trying to catch in on short-term trading gains.

Yeah, sure it is possible to be profitable with trading and it is even more likely that positions can be bolstered by attempting to buy more when the BTC price is down; however, it was more likely that normies are going to do way worse in their BTC accumulation (and therefore future profits) if they fuck around with trading... beyond maybe some minor attempts to buy more during dip periods...and erroring on the side of mostly just regular and persistent buying and accumulating of BTC and increasing their wealth (or likely wealth) through such ongoing, regular and persistent accumulating/buying efforts.

I think buying more Bitcoin during a dip period shouldn't be considered as trading, even though that is what it is in practice, but also since accumulation is done occasionally, it cant be referred to as passive trading since a buyer may not even take note or try to take advantage of any leverage, all a holder does is to make a new purchase at internal unlike like passive traders, who are engaged with the market constantly and this activity reflect the activeness in day to day trading.

Of course there are degrees in which some of us might attempt to time the market or to attempt to buy more on the dip or to buy less because we expect a dip to come in the future (that may or may not happen), so in that regard, there can be variance in terms of how much we end up attempting to strategize buying dips, which might not exactly be trading, but it is a kind of behavior that would deviate from a more strict practice of DCA buying that would not be so much concerned about whether a dip is happening or not.

Surely a more strict kind of trading would be to be selling BTC because you have a belief that the price is going to sufficiently drop lower in order that you would be able to buy back more than what you previously had (prior to your selling), and there are various ways in which selling can occur in terms of how much of your BTC portfolio that you might sell, how much of a dip that you would expect to experience before buying back, so there could be some variations of selling on the way up that might not really fit into traditional ideas of trading because at the time that you sell you are not expecting to buy back at lower prices, and maybe you end up selling lower amount or maybe you do end up using some or all of that money to buy BTC back because the BTC price ended up dropping.. but at the time that you sold, you were not selling for the purpose of expecting to be able to buy back at lower prices.

I tend to believe that it is not good to sell BTC with intentions to buy BTC back lower unless you get to a level of profits that causes your behaviors to be profitable no matter what you do, and in those kinds of cases, you have already reached a certain (high) level of BTC accumulation that you have a lot of options - which might not really be the case for anyone in their earlier stages of BTC accumulation and maybe that they have not even saved up a whole year of salary (in BTC) so they are hardly even close to having any kind of meaningful size in their budget in order that they should be feeling that they have a lot of options... and surely, guys (and gals) will vary in their determinations regarding how much BTC they feel that they need to accumulate in order to feel that they have a lot more BTC portfolio management options that might include both buying and selling with goals of BTC accumulation or whatever it might be that they feel their goals to be in terms of if they feel that they are mostly in BTC accumulation stages, or maintenance or liquidation.. and whether those different stages might trigger at 1x annual salary, 10x annual salary 25x annual salary or at some other point (possibly a higher threshold).... It seems to me that if guys (and gals) have not even accumulated 1x or 2x their annual salary, then they are likely not in a good position to be selling any of their BTC until they reach much higher levels of BTC accumulation.. and sure my opinion is likely to vary from the opinion of others on this matter in terms of where the threshold of sufficiently high enough BTC accumulation is enough...

I already mentioned in a previous post that in traditional asset evaluation circles, you likely need somewhere in the ballpark of 20x to 30x your annual salary to get to entry-level fuck you status.. and so getting into entry-level fuck you status might well be a reasonable goal for some people.. that could affect how they view their BTC accumulation or maintenance (management) in order to strive towards giving financial freedom (or at least financial options, if that might be part of what is sought).

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

and we have to fight as hard as we can.
and invest in btc in my opinion need an investment trading strategy and so on.

and usually many people are forced to sell btc because of emergencies such as illness,

Well, to invest in Bitcoin, you don't have to fight for it; you don't have to struggle for it. What happens to some people is that they lack the right investment ideas and management. Someone is not supposed to invest in Bitcoin in a way that could interfere with their mental health, like investing when you cannot have a peaceful sleep because you are either bothered about the Bitcoin price fluctuation or because your supposed period of investment is about to elapse (like if you just want to invest and hold for some months with the hope of making profit within that period).

Bitcoin investment is supposed to be done in such a way that you don't have to get so worked up about anything or even some arising emergencies. Let's take, for example, someone who is working and earning $500 per month. He or she can make a budget for their needs in a month and decide to invest just $100 into Bitcoin every month and use the rest to settle their needs, but some people would just invest like $400 into Bitcoin and assume they can use the $100 to cater for their needs in that month, and if they are unable to manage that $100 for that month, they may be forced to sell some Bitcoin, and they might be selling it when the price is lower than what they have bought.

Although it might not be all, but some people are forced to sell their holdings because of a lack of planning on how their investment should go. They don't budget very well to know how much they are supposed to spend, how much they should keep in fiat for emergencies, and how much they should invest that will not affect them in any way. When all that is handled, the person will not be forced to sell their coins in just some situations.

[JayJuanGee]

and we have to fight as hard as we can.
and invest in btc in my opinion need an investment trading strategy and so on.

and usually many people are forced to sell btc because of emergencies such as illness,

Well, to invest in Bitcoin, you don't have to fight for it; you don't have to struggle for it. What happens to some people is that they lack the right investment ideas and management. Someone is not supposed to invest in Bitcoin in a way that could interfere with their mental health, like investing when you cannot have a peaceful sleep because you are either bothered about the Bitcoin price fluctuation or because your supposed period of investment is about to elapse (like if you just want to invest and hold for some months with the hope of making profit within that period).

Bitcoin investment is supposed to be done in such a way that you don't have to get so worked up about anything or even some arising emergencies. Let's take, for example, someone who is working and earning $500 per month. He or she can make a budget for their needs in a month and decide to invest just $100 into Bitcoin every month and use the rest to settle their needs, but some people would just invest like $400 into Bitcoin and assume they can use the $100 to cater for their needs in that month, and if they are unable to manage that $100 for that month, they may be forced to sell some Bitcoin, and they might be selling it when the price is lower than what they have bought.

Although it might not be all, but some people are forced to sell their holdings because of a lack of planning on how their investment should go. They don't budget very well to know how much they are supposed to spend, how much they should keep in fiat for emergencies, and how much they should invest that will not affect them in any way. When all that is handled, the person will not be forced to sell their coins in just some situations.

Practice can bring a lot of improvements, and sometimes it could take a few years to really start to get used to how aggressive a person might be able to be without becoming overly aggressive in terms of how much to invest in bitcoin, how much to use for expenses and how much to keep in some other kinds of emergency funds that might not be linked to the price of bitcoin, but instead linked to the fiat currency in which expense might be accounted, and for sure, over 2-4 years many emergencies can happen, and it is not good that the person might have put themselves into their own emergency because they were trying to be more aggressive than they should have had been, just like your example of a person with a $500 monthly budget spending $400 on bitcoin when maybe that person should start out with smaller amounts, such as $100 and maybe build up to $400 later, if $400 is even reasonable at all.

There are likely ways to also consider an investment budget in terms of a percent of the cashflow.. maybe start out with 10% and then work towards higher levels, but at the same time,  many of us should be able to count up all of our expenses, but sometimes we also have difficulties being able to identify the variances in our cashflow and our expenses, and if we are able to plot out our budget on Excel spreadsheets or some kind of a easy way to keep track then we can try to both attempt to identify past issues but also attempt to project out future cashflows in such a way that we always have a bit of a budget cushion, too.. so it becomes less likely that we will have various cash crunches, and we might even be able to better see potential cash crunches that might come at future dates that might be based on various payment plans that we might get into and also even various ways that we might generate cash in the future that may or may not contribute towards greater abilities to have a cash cushion and also to potentially be able to invest in bitcoin now or in the future based on our cashflow projections - and hopefully we do not overly anticipate and we error on the side of NOT having as much cashflow and having more expenses.. and ONLY committing to buying bitcoin with our extra cashflow when we know that our cushion is fairly and reasonably projected into the future.

By the way, recently, I had gone out and projected out my cashflow until the end of 2024.. and I made some changes in some of my projected expenses (and to increase and double some of the categories) assumptions.. and so then when I went out and made the increased expenses changes, I saw that there were a few different months down the road that I would have some cashflow shortages based on my updated/amended projections - and I am glad that I when through the process of making those changes, so I can anticipate those shortage periods in advance and be in a better place to prepare for them, including having ideas from where I will draw the extra money in the event that my projections end up playing out and I don't have enough cash on hand to cover the expenses during the various shortage periods that I currently have projected out towards the end of 2024 (and that is ONLY projecting out about 20 months.. with the nearest 3-4 months being more important - and more of a potential crises - if there were to be some cashflow shortage considerations - as compared to the further out months). 

[Falconer]

Practice can bring a lot of improvements, and sometimes it could take a few years to really start to get used to how aggressive a person might be able to be without becoming overly aggressive in terms of how much to invest in bitcoin, how much to use for expenses and how much to keep in some other kinds of emergency funds that might not be linked to the price of bitcoin, but instead linked to the fiat currency in which expense might be accounted,

JayJuanGee, what you say is certainly highly recommended for any investor. I believe each of them need not put their budget 100% on bitcoin without diversifying their budget elsewhere. Even having some fiat reserves is recommended so that when they need money they don't have to ruin their long term investment plans. In the case of buy on dip and hold, selling bitcoins at a time of urgency should be avoided, so to be sure, adjusting or diversifying the budget is required. The emergency fund is mandatory instead of continuously growing the investment portfolio.

My guess is anyone who has an investment in bitcoin without having an emergency fund in fiat, then sooner or later they will sell their bitcoin. At least 20% - 40% of the total investment budget must be saved as an emergency fund, this will definitely help them if an emergency occurs.

[ajiz138]

Practice can bring a lot of improvements, and sometimes it could take a few years to really start to get used to how aggressive a person might be able to be without becoming overly aggressive in terms of how much to invest in bitcoin, how much to use for expenses and how much to keep in some other kinds of emergency funds that might not be linked to the price of bitcoin, but instead linked to the fiat currency in which expense might be accounted,

JayJuanGee, what you say is certainly highly recommended for any investor. I believe each of them need not put their budget 100% on bitcoin without diversifying their budget elsewhere. Even having some fiat reserves is recommended so that when they need money they don't have to ruin their long term investment plans. In the case of buy on dip and hold, selling bitcoins at a time of urgency should be avoided, so to be sure, adjusting or diversifying the budget is required. The emergency fund is mandatory instead of continuously growing the investment portfolio.

My guess is anyone who has an investment in bitcoin without having an emergency fund in fiat, then sooner or later they will sell their bitcoin. At least 20% - 40% of the total investment budget must be saved as an emergency fund, this will definitely help them if an emergency occurs.

Don't be too fanatical about bitcoin so you don't need fiat, in fact, that is the wrong way, however, fiat is an important thing in life for everything we need, while bitcoin is only for the long term that can be obtained.

Reserve money is very important so that when there is an urgency that is needed it can be used in the right way and I always allocate where the emergency fund must be required while investing in bitcoin only a few percent must be set aside as long as we can routinely do that too much better for their investment in BTC.

You are right, maybe that has happened a lot when they already have assets in bitcoin while fiat money has never been reserved for other emergency needs, the safe way is the method above by balancing what our needs are.

20% bitcoin investment
30% emergency fund
50% as our daily needs/months

I think that's more than enough.

[JayJuanGee]

My guess is anyone who has an investment in bitcoin without having an emergency fund in fiat, then sooner or later they will sell their bitcoin. At least 20% - 40% of the total investment budget must be saved as an emergency fund, this will definitely help them if an emergency occurs.

I am not sure if there is a need to set aside any kind of specific amount (on a regular basis) in order to maintain your emergency fund, yet there are a variety of ways to assess whether your emergency fund is enough, including some kinds of considerations that if your cashflow were to dry up for six months could you still survive?  or if your expenses (also) were to go up for 6 months, or maybe both negative events happen at the same time, and in that regard, from where are you going to draw in order to be able to survive during that period in order to hopefully also attempt to be able to secure additional cashflow or to reduce your expenses back to levels in which your income is greater than your expenses... .so yeah, it may well not be prudent to be investing much if any into bitcoin while you are building your emergency fund, even though surely sometimes we can still start to invest and know that we are building up towards reaching a certain target (in terms of either building our emergency fund or maybe even replenishing our emergency fund if we had to draw from it at an earlier date)...

Some schools of thought would suggest not to invest at all into bitcoin or into anything else until you get your finances in order - even though I understand that sometimes there are not necessarily going to be strict rules, but ways that any of us might exercise caution and/or moderate investment approaches while we are getting our various finances into a better status (in the event that we might have some issues (problems) in regards to either the level of our cashflow or the level of our expenses or both).

Ultimately we are in charge of exercising our own judgements, including needing to take responsibility if we screw things up, and whether or not others are hurt from our mismanagement of our finances is part of the process of taking responsibility, hopefully learning along the way and hopefully improving our practices along the way.

You are right, maybe that has happened a lot when they already have assets in bitcoin while fiat money has never been reserved for other emergency needs, the safe way is the method above by balancing what our needs are.

20% bitcoin investment
30% emergency fund
50% as our daily needs/months

I think that's more than enough.

I doubt that there are any strict formulas regarding how much to be in your budget for any specific category, and sure we can create formulas and targets for ourselves that might help us to attempt to create and/or to reach certain goals that we have created, and surely some folks have more discretionary income (which means money that is free to do whatever that you want with it because it is in excess of the money that you would need for expenses and/or in excess of any money that you might need to build or create an emergency fund) than others, and if you have a lot of discretionary income, then you are free to use more money to buy bitcoin with it.

And, yeah, to some extent, you might be able to create your own discretionary income or your own discretionary levels by figuring out how well your finances are in order at the time that you get into bitcoin or otherwise make your assessments about target levels of investment that you might want to achieve and how much that you are able to dedicate to such bitcoin investment process based on how much income that you have coming in versus how many expenses that you have, and sure you might have some months in which your income and your expenses are consistently the same, but you might have other months in which you might have either great cash surpluses or great shortages of cash for a variety of reasons that might have to do with irregular expenses or maybe even some "surprise" expenses... when you have surprise expenses within a particular month, for example, you might be faced with some dilemmas regarding whether you should still invest into bitcoin during that month or to cut back with your bitcoin investment or to completely withhold your investment into bitcoin until you are able to get your cashflow/expenses ratio back in order and perhaps aiming to replenish your cash reserves prior to resuming investing into bitcoin, too.

[bangjoe]

.....but you might have other months in which you might have either great cash surpluses or great shortages of cash for a variety of reasons that might have to do with irregular expenses or maybe even some "surprise" expenses... when you have surprise expenses within a particular month, for example, you might be faced with some dilemmas regarding whether you should still invest into bitcoin during that month or to cut back with your bitcoin investment or to completely withhold your investment into bitcoin until you are able to get your cashflow/expenses ratio back in order and perhaps aiming to replenish your cash reserves prior to resuming investing into bitcoin, too.

Unexpected expenditure or surprise is indeed very disturbing in the process of implementing the discipline of financial flow, which makes financial principles unstable, because usually emergency expenditure or surprise expenditure must be made priority, we must immediately complete it first. Emergency funds prepared must be sufficient in handling this but sometimes indeed beyond predictions, funds 30% of our salaries collected within a few months, with a surprise expenditure we need funds even more than what we have collected, in that position Indeed, temporarily making the decision to pause/reduce investment in Bitcoin is the right decision and we can continue the DCA back after everything is normal.
Maybe in the stage of refilling the emergency fund, after being drained more due to surprise spending, I think it depends on how the calculation takes into account the condition of his situation, whether he needs to recharge or continue as usual by saving 30% of his total income, and I think there's nothing wrong with that too Replenish your emergency fund before continuing with your investment.

[BITCOIN4X]

~Snip

Unexpected expenditure or surprise is indeed very disturbing in the process of implementing the discipline of financial flow, which makes financial principles unstable, because usually emergency expenditure or surprise expenditure must be made priority, we must immediately complete it first. Emergency funds prepared must be sufficient in handling this but sometimes indeed beyond predictions, funds 30% of our salaries collected within a few months, with a surprise expenditure we need funds even more than what we have collected, in that position Indeed, temporarily making the decision to pause/reduce investment in Bitcoin is the right decision and we can continue the DCA back after everything is normal.
Maybe in the stage of refilling the emergency fund, after being drained more due to surprise spending, I think it depends on how the calculation takes into account the condition of his situation, whether he needs to recharge or continue as usual by saving 30% of his total income, and I think there's nothing wrong with that too Replenish your emergency fund before continuing with your investment.

I also have doubts about the consistency of someone routinely setting aside 30% of their salary for an emergency fund. You might be able to if you have a good job that pays you every month, but really 30% is a very high percentage to save during inflation. All basic necessities are expensive and it will probably be really hard to maintain that consistency because the funds you need for unforeseen needs may vary from one month to another.

You may need to pay car taxes, replace some household appliances or maybe something else. This can ruin your fund-saving plan so that an emergency fund doesn't have to be forced into each month. An emergency fund is necessary, but you don't have to force it on a percentage or amount.

[DaNNy001]

Yeah, sure it is possible to be profitable with trading and it is even more likely that positions can be bolstered by attempting to buy more when the BTC price is down; however, it way more likely that normies are going to do way worse in their BTC accumulation (and therefore future profits) if they fuck around with trading... beyond maybe some minor attempts to buy more during dip periods...and erroring on the side of mostly just regular and persistent buying and accumulating of BTC and increasing their wealth (or likely wealth) through such ongoing, regular and persistent accumulating/buying efforts.

As a small bitcoin holder i dare not to trade with BTC if I wish. Because volatility might eat up my little BTC. But for small holders I think holding Bitcoin is more suitable than trading. A trader is not always profitable. But I want to keep myself out of this calculation of profit or loss and try to keep up with DCA. There are many small BTC holders like me who were afraid to dream. Today they dare to dream that is only by holding BTC. A big trader might be able to temporarily invest in Bitcoin and walk away with money but there are many holders like us who choose Bitcoin as their permanent asset. More than gold or any other precious commodity, BTC has come to be considered a permanent asset to our holders. When the price of Bitcoin falls, some people express disappointment, but some holders like us smile because there will be an opportunity to buy Bitcoin at a lower price.

Well said my friend, I think its probably better to hold than to risk your little coins on trading that is something more like gambling and everyone is well aware of the risks than its involved in gamble so being a patient buyer would probably be the trick to actually achieved some benefit in your long term investment. And like you said, I am still confused on how folks who hold small btc would complain when the price start dipping, it should actually be like some kind of blessing because that's exactly the way I see it, because the lower the market price the better chances you have to accumulate as much btc as you can for your investment because the number of bitcoin will get for 50$ when the price is 20k $  is not same when the price pumps to 30k$.