Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia.

[Nemo1024]

Please create a separate topic for USSR discussion, not related to the region of Novorossia/Ukraine!
I might be interested in replying to some of the statements then.

Do I have to ask you even more politely?

[1714718253]

1714718253

[1714718253]

1714718253

[Nemo1024]

2 southeast Ukrainian regions to hold referendum May 11 as planned
http://rt.com/news/157640-donetsk-ukraine-referendum-may/

“This is not our decision [of the politicians] , this is the decision of people of Donbas region,” said Andrey Purgin, one of the leaders of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, “People of Donbas [Region] got their chance to make a heroic deed and we can’t deprive them from this chance.”

The decision of holding a referendum as scheduled was approved on the council of People’s Republic of Donetsk unanimously.

“People don’t trust Kiev authorities,” Miroslav Rudenko, one of the Donbas self-defense leaders, told Interfax, “Also the reaction of [coup-appointed PM Arseny] Yatsenyuk to the proposal of Russian President [calling for an end to Kiev’s military operation] was inadequate.”

Here is what Yatsenjuk's reaction was:

Ukraine’s coup-appointed PM Arseny Yatsenyuk criticized Putin’s proposal to postpone the referendum.

“The fact that Russia asks to postpone some referendum? Then we need to inform the Russian president that Ukraine hasn’t planned any referendum on May 11. And if terrorists and separatists, who are supported by Russia, were ordered to postpone what wasn’t planned, then it’s their internal affairs,” he said.

Earlier Thursday, the head of Ukrainian National Security and Defense Committee, Andrey Parubiy, said that the military operation in the southeast of Ukraine will continue, regardless of the decision made on the Donetsk regional referendum.

“The counter-terrorist operation will continue unhindered, despite the presence of terrorist and insurgent groups in the Donetsk region,” he said.

[bryant.coleman]

The referendum in Donetsk & Lugansk is to proceed: 'Make your choice on 11 May 0900-2200 hours':

[Stalinist]

by 1980 USSR got highest average living standards on planet.

How does it go? There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I didn't have a chance to travel all the way to USSR but as a youngster I've been visiting Hungary and Czechoslovakia while they were still part of the Soviet block. I cannot tell for sure, but I suppose that their official state numbers describing living standards weren't lagging much behind the Soviet Union. Anyway. I still remember terribly poor people, devastated infrastructure, neglected cities and ridiculously low prices for... well, just about everything: my friends and I were quite amazed by the fact that it's almost impossible to spend what we were considering just a pocket money in those times. Everyone were friendly though, but one could always feel some sort of envy directed towards us coming from (ex) Yugoslavia. Which even at its economical peak at the late 80's wasn't really a rich country, compared to west European standards.

I also recall Polish tourists on Yugoslavian coast: they were laughing stock for our less polite people. To watch them eating tinned food on the beach (because they couldn't afford restaurant) was almost unpleasant.

It is simple to understand. While average living standards was highest on planet, it was scarse on luxury. So you would not see fancy casino streets full of expensive malls, but you would not see extreme poverty either. They wasn`t terribly poor in fact. They had many stuff for free that you could afford yourself only with loan from the bank. Like house, medicine and education.

Start educating yourself, you are danger to humanity!

I wonder how do you believe all this crap and yet you come to btc forum. Do you know what btc is? I guess not.

I know this "crap", its very well documented statistics, and experience of my family and myself. Now excuse  me, will you please stop your ad hominem and insults and get to intelligent arguments? As for BTC, i was smart enough to get over 5000 of those in 2010, any more questions?

[Balthazar]

I wonder how do you believe all this crap and yet you come to btc forum. Do you know what btc is? I guess not.

By "crap" you mean something you disagree with? It's about USSR, nobody cares about Romania, Albania, Poland or whatever.

Forget about milk, salary or utility bills.... I'll give you single example, which turns all 'ex-commie' talks into propaganda bullshit:

In USSR petroleum was cheaper than water.

Congratulations.

[bryant.coleman]

Please create a separate topic for USSR discussion, not related to the region of Novorossia/Ukraine!

Agreed,

BTW... Nemo, are you the user mentioned here:

https://twitter.com/GrahamWP_UK/status/464100191940141056

News just in: Two more soldiers from the Ukrainian army defected to the Donetsk People's Army in Slavyansk.

http://lifenews.ru/news/132879

[Snorek]

I wonder how do you believe all this crap and yet you come to btc forum. Do you know what btc is? I guess not.

By "crap" you mean something you disagree with? It's about USSR, nobody cares about Romania, Albania, Poland or whatever.

Forget about milk, salary or utility bills.... I'll give you single example, which turns all 'ex-commie' talks into propaganda bullshit:

In USSR petroleum was cheaper than water.

Congratulations.

That proves nothing. Tell me how many countries in the last 50 years changed their political system from democracy to communism? And how many countries did the opposite?


As for Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk. I already said that in previous post: for referendum to be legitimate it cannot be done under pressure from any side

[Stalinist]

I wonder how do you believe all this crap and yet you come to btc forum. Do you know what btc is? I guess not.

By "crap" you mean something you disagree with? It's about USSR, nobody cares about Romania, Albania, Poland or whatever.

Forget about milk, salary or utility bills.... I'll give you single example, which turns all 'ex-commie' talks into propaganda bullshit:

In USSR petroleum was cheaper than water.

Congratulations.

That proves nothing. Tell me how many countries in the last 50 years changed their political system from democracy to communism? And how many countries did the opposite?


As for Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk. I already said that in previous post: for referendum to be legitimate it cannot be done under pressure from any side

Communism IS democracy. They changed their goverment and economy systems to capitalist  plutocracy. As i tld already, their demographic stats pretty much proves when they was better off.

Let american professor of economy educate you on thing or two
http://rdwolff.com/content/marxian-economics-intensive-introduction


As for referendum, it will be absolutely legitimate. In Kosovo there was no referendum at all, while pressure was 72 days of bombings of Serbia by NATO

[Snorek]

By "crap" you mean something you disagree with? It's about USSR, nobody cares about Romania, Albania, Poland or whatever.

Forget about milk, salary or utility bills.... I'll give you single example, which turns all 'ex-commie' talks into propaganda bullshit:

In USSR petroleum was cheaper than water.

Congratulations.

That proves nothing. Tell me how many countries in the last 50 years changed their political system from democracy to communism? And how many countries did the opposite?


As for Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk. I already said that in previous post: for referendum to be legitimate it cannot be done under pressure from any side

Communism IS democracy. They changed their goverment and economy systems to capitalist  plutocracy. As i tld already, their demographic stats pretty much proves when they was better off.

Let american professor of economy educate you on thing or two
http://rdwolff.com/content/marxian-economics-intensive-introduction


As for referendum, it will be absolutely legitimate. In Kosovo there was no referendum at all, while pressure was 72 days of bombings of Serbia by NATO

How can You say that Communism is a democracy when there is only one political party? As for the professor I'm shure there are planty other professors that sees this differently.



And as for Kosovo where do You see the connection if there wasn't any referendum?

[bryant.coleman]

Despite Putin's request, Right Sector leader says that the military operation against the Donetsk and Lugansk federalists will continue.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/parubiy-says-anti-terrorist-operation-will-continue-as-separatists-in-luhansk-donetsk-reject-putins-call-to-postpone-referendum-346933.html

[Snorek]

Despite Putin's request, Right Sector leader says that the military operation against the Donetsk and Lugansk federalists will continue.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/parubiy-says-anti-terrorist-operation-will-continue-as-separatists-in-luhansk-donetsk-reject-putins-call-to-postpone-referendum-346933.html

Iv'e got a question for You: Why to You right
"Despite Putin's request, Right Sector leader says that the military operation against the Donetsk and Lugansk federalists will continue."
When in the link You posted is written:
"Parubiy says anti-terrorist operation will continue as separatists in Luhansk, Donetsk reject Putin’s call to postpone referendum"
??

[Stalinist]

How can You say that Communism is a democracy when there is only one political party? As for the professor I'm shure there are planty other professors that sees this differently.



And as for Kosovo where do You see the connection if there wasn't any referendum?

Parlament of the USSR had almost half of independent deputies who was members of any party at all. Multiple party does not mean democracy at all, it is just deception for people to think that they have any choice. They not.

Communism is - public property on means of production, public property on surplus value, management and distribution of it made through direct, common and democatic decisions of the people. Nothing else. There isn`t even place for state.

Socialism is same as communism but management and distribution part is made by democraticaly appointed goverment.

In capitalism however, goverment is defacto property of rich elite, that uses it to suppress people and ensure their profits, i e exploittion of workers through theft of surplus value from them.

As for professor Richard Wolff, i think you better listen him first.

Kosovo didn`t had referendum, it was just stolen from Serbia with use of NATO military force. Yet UN Court and US acknowleged this whole thing legit. In Crimea people come at Referendum and voted their choice in, yet you all declared it illegitimate despite it is no authority that is higher than Referendum on this planet.

"Parubiy says anti-terrorist operation will continue as separatists in Luhansk, Donetsk reject Putin’s call to postpone referendum"

Because Parubiy is a nazi, co-founder of Social-Nationalist Party of Ukraine, the man behind murders in Kiev and Odessa. And his "anti-terrorist" operation is just at of genocide over ukrainean population.

[minime]

author=bryant.coleman link=topic=518645.msg6615149#msg6615149 date=1399565274]
Despite Putin's request, Right Sector leader says that the military operation against the Donetsk and Lugansk federalists will continue.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/parubiy-says-anti-terrorist-operation-will-continue-as-separatists-in-luhansk-donetsk-reject-putins-call-to-postpone-referendum-346933.html

they have too... credit will be invalid for ua if some regions splitt up

[CyberMOS]

И тyт тpoлли? Axyeть

[Stalinist]

И тyт тpoлли? Axyeть

A ты дyмaл, глoбaльнaя xepня

[bryant.coleman]

First East Ukraine Elections to Be Held

http://landandseajournal.com/first-east-ukraine-elections-to-be-held

The People’s Council of the People’s Republic of Donetsk (DNR) has scheduled a referendum for May 11, according to Council Chairman Denis Pushkin, despite warnings from Kiev and a request by Russian President Vladimir Putin. The referendum will concern the status of the region–whether it wishes to remain Ukrainian or become Russian. The council moved forward with the referendum after a unanimous vote that the referendum would not be postponed.

[Morbid]

greg hunter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZD1i0GbQzg

[Pagan]

how to grill a duck by ruSSian  

Taк шoби ви знaли: в oднoм из cбитыx ceпapaтиcтaми вepтoлeтoв вoзлe Cлaвянcкa пoгиблo 13 aмepикaнcкиx нaeмникoв. A Baшингтoн вce cкpывaeт. Cвeдeния caмыe нaдeжныe! Иx cooбщaeт, нaпpимep, coлиднaя poccийcкaя гaзeтa "Bзгляд" http://vz.ru/news/2014/5/7/685681.html. Кoтopaя ccылaeтcя нa coлиднoe издaниe The European Union Times http://www.eutimes.net/2014/05/us-refuses-to-take-back-13-dead-cia-spies-killed-in-ukraine/. Кoтopoe ccылaeтcя нa eщe бoлee coлиднoe издaниe whatdoesitmean http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1767.htm. B кoтopoм oб этoм пишeт 73-я пpeдcтoятeльницa opдeнa Sorcha Faal, ocнoвaннoгo, нa ceкyндoчкy, eщe в шecтoм вeкe дo нaшeй эpы cтapшeй дoчepью цapя Зeдeкии http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index7381.htm.

Пpи этoм - внимaниe! - caмa пpeдcтoятeльницa вeликoгo и мoгyщecтвeннoгo opдeнa ccылaeтcя нa... дoклaд Mиниcтepcтвa oбopoны Poccии. Кoтopoгo, пpaвдa, нe цитиpyeт и дaжe нe нaзывaeт, oткyдa o нeм yзнaлa - нe cooбщaeт.

A пoтoм выйдeт Лaвpoв и cкaжeт: "Кaк нeoднoкpaтнo cooбщaлocь в пpecce..."

[Pagan]

 ruSSian and nazis are allies

Marxism = Nazism = Juche

The marxist roots of National Socialism

Hegel is the source. Hegel made Marx and Marx made Socialism. As for Hitler, he was influenced by both, Hegel and Marx, but also by Nietzsche, Wagner and Darwin.

Nationalism is no proof of anti-Socialism (Rightism), nor is racialism. At least initially, racialism and nationalism seem essentially undistinguishable so does racialism or Nationalism make a National Bolshevist non-socialist? Hardly. The post-war exodus of Jews from the Soviet Union and the tales of persecution that they brought with them are surely proof enough of that. Or was the Soviet Union rightist? And it is also clear that anti-Semitism was not a defining feature of Mussolini's Fascism. It was more a defining feature of Northern European culture AND of LEFTISM. Both Mussolini in Italy and Mosley in Britain were fascist leaders but neither was initially anti-semitic or racialist. Hitler also rejected the leninist and trotskyite claim that "the NSDAP is capitalist" and always stated it is anti-capitalist. He put "nature" (environmentalism) at the centre of his thinking.

He was against "multinational banks and companies" (globalization). And he regarded the German social system (welfare state) as an outstanding achievement. And while Hitler did not nationalize all industry, there was extensive compulsory reorganization of it and tight party control over it. Clearly, the NSDAP, Horst Wessel, Gregor Strasser, Ernst Roehm, Joseph Goebbels etc. did indeed reflect all of Socialism's themes and clearly were of the Left. Hitler was a Leftist by the standards of his day, as his championship of eugenics showed. And who popularized eugenics before him? It was the "progressive movement" which was created by American Progressive, Woodrow Wilson.


Nazi propagandists insisted again and again that Marxism is the quintessence of the "Jewish mind", and that it is the great historic mission of National Socialism to root it out. It's true that this attitude didn't prevent Hitler either from cooperating with the German Communists in undermining the Weimar Republic, or from training his black guards in Russian artillery and aviation camps in the years 1923 - 1933, or -- in the period from August 1939 until June 1941 -- from entering into a close political and military complicity with Soviet Russia.

Nevertheless, public opinion supports the view that Nazism and Bolshevism are philosophies implacably opposed to each other. In reality, Bolshevism and National Socialism are two forms of extreme Socialism / Leftism.

Hegel's basic idea, the idea that absolutely GRABBED Marx, Engels, the Nazis and other Socialists, was that history is ORDERLY -- rather than just repeating itself, it is actually a progression towards an endpoint of perfection. And that perfect end is freedom, but not freedom as we would know it: THE STATE is the essential reality and embodies all of human progress.

The contempt that German Hitlerytes had for "Bolshevism" or "marxist Jews" generally should also not mislead us in assessing the similarity between National Socialism and Communism. Leftist sects are very prone to rivalry, dissension, schism and hatred of one-another. One has only to think of the Bolsheviks versus the Mensheviks, Stalin versus Trotsky, China versus the Soviet Union etc. Similarity does not preclude rivalry. Hitler and Stalin were literally brothers in arms BEFORE they became rivals. That socialist brothers sometimes fall out should not prevent us from noting the brotherhood concerned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa1sj0gwnuQ

[Stalinist]

dhdffukgyigui

I will not even bother myself adressing your recent gibberish. I still waiting answers regarding Katyn and definition of Communism, Socialism

1) Why was men in Katyn shot only with use of german weapons, namely Walther PPK and Kar98k with latest rounds dated 1941?

2) Why men in Katyn "forest" was actualy shot in SMALL PARK between boyscout camp and countryhouses full of people on promenade in spring 1940?

3) Why polish policemen from same soviet POW camp that supposedly killed in Katyn and buried there was found in proven nazi execution site in Volodymyr-Volynskyi?