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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1249415 times)
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smooth
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May 11, 2016, 12:50:39 AM
 #14141

"You can't cheat an honest person"

People got "ripped off" on ASICs because they thought someone was going to sell them a magic money machine for less than the amount of money said machine would magically create. #fail

Some people did, yeah. The rest, however, got "ripped off" on ASICs because they thought the people selling would actually deliver something near promised spec sometime near promised deadline. Or, you know, at all.

Yes that happened, in addition to thinking someone was going to sell them a magic money machine for less than the amount of money said machine would magically create. "You can't cheat an honest person".

A very few people ordered miners thinking they would break even or lose money because they wanted to mine altruistically to support the network. Those are indeed potential innocent victims. A tiny number, though.
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May 11, 2016, 12:53:13 AM
 #14142

"You can't cheat an honest person"

People got "ripped off" on ASICs because they thought someone was going to sell them a magic money machine for less than the amount of money said machine would magically create. #fail





Yah! I was so stupid for buying those knc machines back in 2013. #fail

I bought ASICs and made good money on them too (AntMiner S1). Even at the time I knew the game that was being played and assessed my risk accordingly, which included getting out of the game at the right time. Not on topic for this thread though, except that last phrase.

Also on topic from the point of view of an observer reading these claims (including mine) about having done well buying magic money machines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-card_Monte#Drawing_a_player_in
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May 11, 2016, 01:10:07 AM
 #14143

It's not that bad business practice to sell miners for less than they could feasibly earn. That would guarantee you a lot of market demand which means quick sales which gets your investment cost (plus profit) back pretty quickly. You lower the requirements for breakeven ROI, which can bring a lot of folks back to the game who would otherwise be cut out, which again increases your sales in addition to helping network distribution.
And compared to self-mining on machines instead of selling (or selling slowly due to high prices), it offsets the entire risk to the buyer, returns your investment instantly instead of drawing it out over the next year, and then you don't have the additional headache of establishing and maintaining your own mega farm.
That's how I'd do it.

The problem with miner sales hasn't so much been that people are charged too much. The real problems happen when people are charged about the right amount, and then when the gear arrives six months too late and the diff has doubled. Or when it doesn't arrive at all. If folks felt ripped off by the upfront price of gear they wouldn't buy it. The problem is when what was purchased isn't delivered at all or is delivered so late (or, as noted in this thread, delivered far out of promised spec) it ends up having less (or zero) worth compared to sales promises. "You can't cheat an honest person" makes no sense. You can; it's called "deception".

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May 11, 2016, 01:22:01 AM
 #14144

It's not that bad business practice to sell miners for less than they could feasibly earn. That would guarantee you a lot of market demand which means quick sales which gets your investment cost (plus profit) back pretty quickly. You lower the requirements for breakeven ROI, which can bring a lot of folks back to the game who would otherwise be cut out, which again increases your sales in addition to helping network distribution.
And compared to self-mining on machines instead of selling (or selling slowly due to high prices), it offsets the entire risk to the buyer, returns your investment instantly instead of drawing it out over the next year, and then you don't have the additional headache of establishing and maintaining your own mega farm.
That's how I'd do it.

The problem with miner sales hasn't so much been that people are charged too much. The real problems happen when people are charged about the right amount, and then when the gear arrives six months too late and the diff has doubled. Or when it doesn't arrive at all. If folks felt ripped off by the upfront price of gear they wouldn't buy it. The problem is when what was purchased isn't delivered at all or is delivered so late (or, as noted in this thread, delivered far out of promised spec) it ends up having less (or zero) worth compared to sales promises. "You can't cheat an honest person" makes no sense. You can; it's called "deception".

That's a nice theory (not really). Now look at the real world where most mining is now some form of self mining (including profit sharing) and even a lot of the machines that were ever supposedly sold to independent miners in the past were self-mined first.

When confronted with evidence that contradicts your theory, deny the evidence or reevaluate your theory. In this case, I'll keep it simple for you, your theory is just wrong.

Quote
The real problems happen when people are charged about the right amount, and then when the gear arrives six months too late and the diff has doubled.

Yes, and what do you know, often those miners were mining for the manufacturer "for testing" during that six months.
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May 11, 2016, 01:49:33 AM
 #14145

Pretty much all my theories on how to run a business break down in the face of overwhelming greed. But then, so do a lot of things; for reference, note the root causes of pretty much every economic depression. Just because it's not how everyone's doing business doesn't mean it's not possible to do business that way. I think not openly screwing over your customers in every possible way is probably a better business strategy for long-term viability. But, as Spondoolies proved, it hurts in the short term when everyone else is being as evil as possible to rake in money hand over fist in a market where, apparently, most customers would rather be knowingly screwed over than treated decently if it saves a dollar in the short term.

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May 11, 2016, 02:26:31 AM
 #14146

Did not think about it but with message coming out Sunday about stopping operations wonder if anyone made money going against BTCS stock Monday at opening- http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=BTCS+Interactive#{%22range%22:%225d%22,%22allowChartStacking%22:true}

And this thread sure is interesting to watch to say the least.

Its not easy to trade an illiquid penny stock on something like OTC as no ones going to give you a short position so once the stale order book gets eaten through it doesn't matter what the price is because you can't trade. The volumes even in the last few days are quite low, in the order of $200,000 over the last 5 days from their market cap of $20M odd. Unfortunately BTCS has quite a few creditors are vendors who received payment in stock so this is going to hurt many a business.

My broker does not allow sortng of pinks/OTC or i would have. but as you said, there may only be a few hundred shares bridging a $2 price difference

Im surprised it hasnt tanked further TBH. that sort of news pretty much dooms BTCS as their website is useless and thier mining doesn't have the SP50 contract.

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May 11, 2016, 02:55:45 AM
 #14147

Did not think about it but with message coming out Sunday about stopping operations wonder if anyone made money going against BTCS stock Monday at opening- http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=BTCS+Interactive#{%22range%22:%225d%22,%22allowChartStacking%22:true}

And this thread sure is interesting to watch to say the least.

Its not easy to trade an illiquid penny stock on something like OTC as no ones going to give you a short position so once the stale order book gets eaten through it doesn't matter what the price is because you can't trade. The volumes even in the last few days are quite low, in the order of $200,000 over the last 5 days from their market cap of $20M odd. Unfortunately BTCS has quite a few creditors are vendors who received payment in stock so this is going to hurt many a business.

My broker does not allow sortng of pinks/OTC or i would have. but as you said, there may only be a few hundred shares bridging a $2 price difference

Im surprised it hasnt tanked further TBH. that sort of news pretty much dooms BTCS as their website is useless and thier mining doesn't have the SP50 contract.

Its not $2 difference, its $0.02. The entirety of their order book down to $0.0001 is only worth approximately $55k on a cap of $15.2m. In their own SEC filings they say there isn't a liquid market for their shares and there never may be, and yet they want to uplist to NYSE?

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/BTCS/quote

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May 11, 2016, 06:14:52 AM
 #14148

"You can't cheat an honest person"

People got "ripped off" on ASICs because they thought someone was going to sell them a magic money machine for less than the amount of money said machine would magically create. #fail





Thank you Josh Zerlan !!!!!!!!!!!!!   Wink

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
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May 11, 2016, 07:34:33 AM
 #14149

TIL - you cant rape a fully clothed person..

Spastic logic!!

Jimbo & Searing, you're needed... Call in Phonie x, for the triforce of R-Tards
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May 11, 2016, 11:59:34 AM
 #14150

Meanwhile, back in the mysterious Orient, there was much merriment and rejoicing...

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May 12, 2016, 12:30:34 AM
 #14151

Meanwhile, back in the mysterious Orient, there was much merriment and rejoicing...



context ?

and it's sad to see SP go. some of the best HW $ for $ , performance , long value over 18 mo thus far. SP20s are legends of a HW generation.

OregonMines is expanding. Are you expanding with us?
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May 12, 2016, 04:51:32 AM
 #14152

SP20s are legends of a HW generation.

Why the SP20? It strugged to reach its stock speed, was loud as hell and not particularly efficient. The real game changer was the SP10.

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May 12, 2016, 12:33:09 PM
 #14153

But the SP20 isn't as loud (or at least isn't nearly as annoying) as the SP10; the form factor also made it more accessible than the SP20's rack case. And because the core voltage is fully adjustable it's still viable at some consumer-available electric rates a year and a half after it was introduced. I think that was his point.

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May 12, 2016, 12:42:53 PM
 #14154

But the SP20 isn't as loud (or at least isn't nearly as annoying) as the SP10; the form factor also made it more accessible than the SP20's rack case. And because the core voltage is fully adjustable it's still viable at some consumer-available electric rates a year and a half after it was introduced. I think that was his point.

yeah the ability to alter the watts per gh  was very good.

overclock raise volts  and do 1400gh at .65-.70 watts per gh

or downclock lower volts and do 900gh at  at .43-.46 watts a gh  was a good feature.

too bad no one sells miners  like this at the moment.


An s-9 that would allow for .07 to .13 watts a gh would be nice.

In fact any gear that allows a .07 to .13 watt a gh would be nice.


I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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May 12, 2016, 01:24:30 PM
 #14155

I dont get it though,  if so hard pressed for cash why not plug in all the inventory and gnereate BTC?


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May 12, 2016, 01:27:33 PM
 #14156

I dont get it though,  if so hard pressed for cash why not plug in all the inventory and gnereate BTC?

Found the problem.

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May 12, 2016, 01:32:07 PM
 #14157

I dont get it though,  if so hard pressed for cash why not plug in all the inventory and gnereate BTC?

Found the problem.

yupp haha.  they don't have any. they sold it all , and i still believe gave the rest to genesis, who then most likely proceeded to screw them with over-evaluated future profit numbers, effectively putting them out of business as the money never came.

theres no reason they should have went down otherwise, imo.   were their 0.16 chips real? (the SP50 chips i believe)
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May 12, 2016, 01:34:16 PM
 #14158

AH

I see....

Guess the audit was not worth the paper it was written on...

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May 12, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
 #14159

To my knowledge, they sold off the last of their Rockerbox rack units last June or so. It's the going assumption they never got the Pickaxe (SP50) to production, but I can't confirm that with documentation.

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May 12, 2016, 03:08:21 PM
 #14160

But the SP20 isn't as loud (or at least isn't nearly as annoying) as the SP10; the form factor also made it more accessible than the SP20's rack case. And because the core voltage is fully adjustable it's still viable at some consumer-available electric rates a year and a half after it was introduced. I think that was his point.

I remember plugging in my first SP10 (one of the early non-preorder batches) when i was running a few S1 units. Within seconds i knew that this was not meant for home mining, the sound was horrific at full speeds.


I tink spondoolies greatest problem was that they designed an amazing combination of hardware and software in anticipation of BTC>$1000. The SP50 would have been a hands-down king of the hill if bitcoin prices were high enough to cover its expensive hardware component choices.

in terms of $/TH (not even including the specialty PSUs), the Sp50 would probably cost at least 50% more to produce that whatever bitmain sold as an S9/S10 competitor. In the midst of a mining race, the manufacturing is a trivial part of the final pricing, but when things reach an equilibrium (as it has over the last few months), sales prices realign with manufacturing cost and only the cheapest products find sales. This is why bitfury is well-posed to take the crown with thier simple string designs and software

24" PCI-E cables with 16AWG wires and stripped ends - great for server PSU mods, best prices https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563461
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