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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1256293 times)
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majestymage
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September 23, 2015, 07:07:39 PM
 #13361


This is marginally better than KnC, who's been stuffing every ASIC at hand in their Swedish facility guarded by buxom blondes with machine guns Smiley

Economically, I would not pay much more than 1.0-1.2 BTC per TH for ANY new miner. At present BTC rates, this puts the economically feasible price for the SP50 around $25,000 per unit.

Pay more than that, and you are unlikely to see any ROI - which is kinda the point of the whole thing if you are a professional operator with access to low cost electricity.
 
Everything comes down to price, price, price...



i agree with you....but question...what knc product are you talking about? or you are a insider trying to light some fires  Roll Eyes

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September 23, 2015, 07:10:11 PM
 #13362

Good to see the 0.15W/GH/s Power Efficiency

On 28nm!

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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September 23, 2015, 07:16:47 PM
 #13363

Q: Now, what kind of company announces an amazing product but does not suggest a price for it?

A: A company who is uncertain of demand and price points

IMHO, Spondoolies has a small number of working prototypes of the SP50 and is trying to figure out how to gear up for production. They may have just barely enough demand from their hosting/merger partners to get production off the ground, and are naturally looking for ways to milk the wider market beyond at the highest price it can bear (with optimists leading the way of course).

This is marginally better than KnC, who's been stuffing every ASIC at hand in their Swedish facility guarded by buxom blondes with machine guns Smiley

Technically, I trust Spondoolies to deliver. I have looked at the guts and firmware of all their machines extensively. As an EECS myself, I think their implementation is indeed best in class (better than Bitmain and KNC). One suggestion - do not affix the heatsinks with an epoxy bead (a la SP20).

Economically, I would not pay much more than 1.0-1.2 BTC per TH for ANY new miner. At present BTC rates, this puts the economically feasible price for the SP50 around $25,000 per unit.

Pay more than that, and you are unlikely to see any ROI - which is kinda the point of the whole thing if you are a professional operator with access to low cost electricity.
 
Everything comes down to price, price, price...




Hi there,

I didn't know you cared for mining. Nice to see.

I think producers are forcing customers to realize that ROI in less than a year is not realistic any more. But with cheap electricity these new machines should be profitable for far longer than previous generations of asics. The nm race is grinding to a halt, and even if there is a breakthrough in that field it will take 2-4 years for it to make it to production.

"I predict the Internet will soon go spectacularly supernova and in 1996 catastrophically collapse." - Robert Metcalfe, 1995
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September 23, 2015, 07:28:35 PM
 #13364

Q: Now, what kind of company announces an amazing product but does not suggest a price for it?

A: A company that wants their target (in this case: bulk) consumers to think twice before investing in the competition, while they roll out production.  The same style PR that BitFury used here, with slightly more substance and considerably less bullshit.

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September 23, 2015, 07:39:20 PM
 #13365

Q: Now, what kind of company announces an amazing product but does not suggest a price for it?

A: A company who is uncertain of demand and price points

IMHO, Spondoolies has a small number of working prototypes of the SP50 and is trying to figure out how to gear up for production. They may have just barely enough demand from their hosting/merger partners to get production off the ground, and are naturally looking for ways to milk the wider market beyond at the highest price it can bear (with optimists leading the way of course).

This is marginally better than KnC, who's been stuffing every ASIC at hand in their Swedish facility guarded by buxom blondes with machine guns Smiley

Technically, I trust Spondoolies to deliver. I have looked at the guts and firmware of all their machines extensively. As an EECS myself, I think their implementation is indeed best in class (better than Bitmain and KNC). One suggestion - do not affix the heatsinks with an epoxy bead (a la SP20).

Economically, I would not pay much more than 1.0-1.2 BTC per TH for ANY new miner. At present BTC rates, this puts the economically feasible price for the SP50 around $25,000 per unit.

Pay more than that, and you are unlikely to see any ROI - which is kinda the point of the whole thing if you are a professional operator with access to low cost electricity.
 
Everything comes down to price, price, price...




Hi there,

I didn't know you cared for mining. Nice to see.

I think producers are forcing customers to realize that ROI in less than a year is not realistic any more. But with cheap electricity these new machines should be profitable for far longer than previous generations of asics. The nm race is grinding to a halt, and even if there is a breakthrough in that field it will take 2-4 years for it to make it to production.


Thanks.

Would you invest your money in mining if the baseline ROI was 1-2 years or more?

The VCs who are funding the large mining ops are definitely looking at much faster paybacks. The rational ones at least....

I'm worried about a new difficulty race. Spondoolies needs to sell only ~3000 SP50 to double the network difficulty and halve the yield (that's on top of the reward halving in June).

On the semi side, it's not that hard nowadays to step down to 20 or even 16 nm. The fab capacity and technical expertise is there, readily available.
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September 23, 2015, 08:03:14 PM
Last edit: January 08, 2016, 04:56:16 PM by jtoomim
 #13366

Toomim Bros may be organizing a group buy for SP50s. Send an email to orders@toom.im if you're interested.

Edit: This will not be happening.

Hosting bitcoin miners for $65 to $80/kW/month on clean, cheap hydro power.
http://Toom.im
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September 23, 2015, 08:04:50 PM
 #13367


On the semi side, it's not that hard nowadays to step down to 20 or even 16 nm. The fab capacity and technical expertise is there, readily available.

16 nm readily available.....  

"The fact that the 16nm production process is not yet widely available and ready for mass production would however mean that the first ASIC chips made using it may be pricier, at least until the yield of good chips is high enough. The development of very complex chips with thousands of cores is another thing that will require a serious financial support"

from crypto mining blog....

Seriously - 16nm desgin, fab, and implementation would be DRAMATICALLY more expensive and require a tremendous lead time.  Obviously Spon has done some amazing things with their current die size, and I can't wait to see these things in real life running.  I think it was a savvy business move, and a technical feat to do what they've done.  Hats off to them, their engineers, and their business leadership.  This is why they are the industry leader.
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September 23, 2015, 08:07:01 PM
 #13368

Congratulations to Spondoolies on their SP50!
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September 23, 2015, 08:37:57 PM
 #13369

Good to see the 0.15W/GH/s Power Efficiency

On 28nm!

That is something Cheesy

However anyone know the efficiency of KNC newest offering?
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September 23, 2015, 08:41:30 PM
 #13370

Good to see the 0.15W/GH/s Power Efficiency

On 28nm!

That is something Cheesy

However anyone know the efficiency of KNC newest offering?



what knc newest offering  Huh

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/iTEX/./INNOVATING TRADING EXCHANGE/.
/Whitepaper/ /Sign Up/ /Buy Token Now/


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September 23, 2015, 08:48:37 PM
 #13371

Good to see the 0.15W/GH/s Power Efficiency

On 28nm!

That is something Cheesy

However anyone know the efficiency of KNC newest offering?



what knc newest offering  Huh


I don't mean to derail so I will keep it short.

"First announced last November, the 16nm Solar is six times faster than the company's previous 28nm design."
"The company says the "environmentally friendly" chip, capable of 0.07 w/GHs, will increase the efficiency of its industrial mining farms by six to eight times."

Edit: bitfurys existing 0.2w/GHs and recently

"BitFury 16nm Bitcoin ASIC Taped Out"
The specifications on the new ASIC are excellent. From BitFury’s press release:

"“Executing its chip with expectations to operate as low as 0.06 joules per gigahash (unit of energy per unit of compute), BitFury is the first Bitcoin transaction processor ready to support the increased computing power required for the upcoming “Exahash Era” "
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September 23, 2015, 08:51:43 PM
 #13372

KNC has said a lot of things, many of them false.  Take it with a mine of salt...

I think it's very safe to say we can trust the word of a company like SP-Tech, they have been nothing but forthcoming and honest with us miners, with the only exception being the slight stretch on SP20's published hashrate

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September 23, 2015, 08:52:59 PM
 #13373

KNC has said a lot of things, many of them false.  Take it with a mine of salt...

Indeed it would be great to have it confirmed via community members.
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September 23, 2015, 08:53:07 PM
 #13374

"Spondoolies is shifting away from mass consumer sales to align itself with BTCS, offering the first batch of the SP50 servers to only a handful of select customers."

"BTCS and Spondoolies plan to host the SP50 in BTCS' North Carolina facility, as well as at other low cost facilities."

Quite the opposite - the press release is geared up for mass consumption, they are trying to gauge the level of interest by the broader market for the machine. You bet they've been talking numbers with the largest operators for a while now.

That comes from their own website.

How is that Lexical analysis working out bickneleski?
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September 23, 2015, 08:54:38 PM
 #13375

Good to see the 0.15W/GH/s Power Efficiency

On 28nm!

That is something Cheesy

However anyone know the efficiency of KNC newest offering?



what knc newest offering  Huh


I don't mean to derail so I will keep it short.

"First announced last November, the 16nm Solar is six times faster than the company's previous 28nm design."
"The company says the "environmentally friendly" chip, capable of 0.07 w/GHs, will increase the efficiency of its industrial mining farms by six to eight times."


yup but i do not think they are selling so its not relevant for us. maybe just for an ideea of where the engineering eficiency has gone.

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Fatman3001
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September 23, 2015, 08:58:19 PM
 #13376

Q: Now, what kind of company announces an amazing product but does not suggest a price for it?

A: A company who is uncertain of demand and price points

IMHO, Spondoolies has a small number of working prototypes of the SP50 and is trying to figure out how to gear up for production. They may have just barely enough demand from their hosting/merger partners to get production off the ground, and are naturally looking for ways to milk the wider market beyond at the highest price it can bear (with optimists leading the way of course).

This is marginally better than KnC, who's been stuffing every ASIC at hand in their Swedish facility guarded by buxom blondes with machine guns Smiley

Technically, I trust Spondoolies to deliver. I have looked at the guts and firmware of all their machines extensively. As an EECS myself, I think their implementation is indeed best in class (better than Bitmain and KNC). One suggestion - do not affix the heatsinks with an epoxy bead (a la SP20).

Economically, I would not pay much more than 1.0-1.2 BTC per TH for ANY new miner. At present BTC rates, this puts the economically feasible price for the SP50 around $25,000 per unit.

Pay more than that, and you are unlikely to see any ROI - which is kinda the point of the whole thing if you are a professional operator with access to low cost electricity.
 
Everything comes down to price, price, price...




Hi there,

I didn't know you cared for mining. Nice to see.

I think producers are forcing customers to realize that ROI in less than a year is not realistic any more. But with cheap electricity these new machines should be profitable for far longer than previous generations of asics. The nm race is grinding to a halt, and even if there is a breakthrough in that field it will take 2-4 years for it to make it to production.


Thanks.

Would you invest your money in mining if the baseline ROI was 1-2 years or more?

The VCs who are funding the large mining ops are definitely looking at much faster paybacks. The rational ones at least....

I'm worried about a new difficulty race. Spondoolies needs to sell only ~3000 SP50 to double the network difficulty and halve the yield (that's on top of the reward halving in June).

On the semi side, it's not that hard nowadays to step down to 20 or even 16 nm. The fab capacity and technical expertise is there, readily available.

If I had a good setup I wouldn't hesitate. That is, if I had a guaranteed access to a low cost facility and guaranteed cheap electricity. Now is the best time to do it, as the network will grow and the halving will keep overinvestment in the field at bay (I hope) you have a good chance to ROI (in terms of BTC) most of the costs (depending on the price of the blimmin miners, of course) before the halving. I do believe the BTC price has hit bottom. And I do believe it will pick up within the next 6 months. But if it stays sub $1000 for the next couple of years I would be much more comfortable with mining than speculating.

With regards to 20nm I don't know if it's relevant anymore. As I understood there were some minor efficiency advantages over 28nm, but its main advantage was the ability to run chips at higher frequencies with less leakage. I guess that's attractive if your chip designs focuses on a few massive chips, like with the KnC Neptune, rather than lots of smaller ones. But with the 14/16nm chips it will be interesting to see, if we ever get some confirmed power specs on Bitfurys, KnCs or LKETCs 14/16nm machines, how much there is to squeeze out of those processes.

I think Bitfurys claimed 0.06J/GH figure is not strictly down to fab process. They've been tweaking their chips for efficiency since day 1 and clearly have an advantage in this regard. But if it is mostly down to fab process it's worth to note that the difference in efficiency between 0.07J/GH and the specs for the SP50 is as large as between the antminer S5 and the first KnC machines, percentagewise.

In any event I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Disclaimer: I am not an EECS or anything like that. Just a plain good old overreaching nerd. Anything I say, hear or think may be cr@p.

"I predict the Internet will soon go spectacularly supernova and in 1996 catastrophically collapse." - Robert Metcalfe, 1995
majestymage
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September 23, 2015, 08:59:03 PM
 #13377

sp 50 bitmain slayer ? LOL
please spondoolies make a bitmain slayer mini 10-20 th and take my money  Grin

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September 23, 2015, 09:05:01 PM
 #13378

I don't think it would be hard for SPT to put one of the hashboards ~11 TH in a SP10 type enclosure.   Wink

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September 23, 2015, 09:09:36 PM
 #13379

I don't think it would be hard for SPT to put one of the hashboards ~11 TH in a SP10 type enclosure.   Wink

It wouldn't but I doubt they care to. What would be interesting is if they licensed someone else to make a smaller miner using their chips so they don't have to be bothered with tech support or manufacturing.
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September 23, 2015, 09:13:21 PM
 #13380

I don't think it would be hard for SPT to put one of the hashboards ~11 TH in a SP10 type enclosure.   Wink

It wouldn't but I doubt they care to. What would be interested is if they licensed someone else to make a smaller miner using their chips so they don't have to be bothered with tech support or manufacturing.

this is their baby...why would they do that?

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