[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[bitcoinbearhk]

I don't see how ROI on the miners can be achieved if the difficulty increases so fast before the miners can even get to us and make any respectable $$$. Looks like our only hope is if the BTC to USD rate goes up and that's not a gamble anyone should be taking with their money, and on the other hand if BTC to USD drops then you can see how the people mining are the ones that are screwed even further here...

Personally I don't believe the cost of the hardware itself is justified, it's too expensive and the hardware manufacturers keep the buyers thinking that at current mining difficulty and rate they will get their money back in 3 months, but that is not true.

When I purchased the miners in July 24 or so the difficulty was about 17.34G at a BTC to USD rate of $650 expecting to get a decent return, now I still don't have my miners and I have to wait another 1 month, have spent $125,900 USD to Spondoolies, difficulty is now at 23.84G at a BTC to USD rate of $500. By the time I get my miners up and working the difficulty will be about 30.00G if not more and even if the rate stays at $500 I'm basically still screwed because the miners will probably not make their money back before they out live their useful life.

Everyone better think well and hard before buying mining equipment on pre-order with 2 months waiting time, never again. I hope I can get my money back by running my 29 x SP30 miners until they end up in the bin by January or February 2015...

Mining Hardware producers like Spondoolies and the rest are pretty much safe. We are the ones worried about getting our money back while they sell us expensive hardware on pre-order.

29 x SP30??  You sure you have the power supply and ventilation to handle that?

[1715067978]

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[1715067978]

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[Biodom]

@ wissam

If you are so disappointed, why don´t you go for the refund?

Complaining on the forum how you think there will be perpetual difficulty rise and other factors not within direct control of spondoolies will certainly not help your position.

You will notice that the cost for the SP31 is about the same price of the SP30 I paid for but it has an additional 1TH speed. so they can sell the better/faster SP31 device for cheaper but not the SP30 after all the delays and disappointment that affects customer's return in such a negative way?

@wissam

you seem to be new to this "racket", but there will be about a month-month and a half between Sp-30 and SP-31, which means miner with higher speed, paradoxically, will most likely NOT produce more bitcoins. Spond basically calculated Sp-31 price based on ~22% increase in difficulty vs ~22% higher speed for almost the same price (after rebate)-at least that is what my numbers show. If there will be more than 22% difficulty increase between Sept batches and Sp-31, then Sp-30 WAS a better deal, and if less, than Sp-31 IS a better deal. The unknown makes the market and your risk in this choice.
Edit: by the same calculation, GB, is definitely a better deal than Sept Sp-30 and almost certainly better than Sp-31.

[wissam]

@ wissam

If you are so disappointed, why don´t you go for the refund?

Complaining on the forum how you think there will be perpetual difficulty rise and other factors not within direct control of spondoolies will certainly not help your position.

You will notice that the cost for the SP31 is about the same price of the SP30 I paid for but it has an additional 1TH speed. so they can sell the better/faster SP31 device for cheaper but not the SP30 after all the delays and disappointment that affects customer's return in such a negative way?

@wissam

you seem to be new to this "racket", but there will be about a month-month and a half between Sp-30 and SP-31, which means miner with higher speed, paradoxically, will most likely NOT produce more bitcoins. Spond basically calculated Sp-31 price based on ~22% increase in difficulty vs ~22% higher speed for almost the same price (after rebate)-at least that is what my numbers show. If there will be more than 22% difficulty increase between Sept batches and Sp-31, then Sp-30 WAS a better deal, and if less, than Sp-31 IS a better deal. The unknown makes the market and your risk in this choice.

@bitcoinbearhk: Will be hosting with Toom.im

@Biodom: Any idea on how long the units will ROI and the actual life of the units to begin with? If difficulty continues to rise the way they are then how long approx before the machines can't even pay for their own hosting you think if hosting is $270 a month per unit? I'm considering the high possibility of just running them until they can't break even and just drop out of this mining thing because it's not worth the risk.

[Collider]

@Biodom: Any idea on how long the units will ROI and the actual life of the units to begin with? If difficulty continues to rise the way they are then how long approx before the machines can't even pay for their own hosting you think if hosting is $270 a month per unit? I'm considering the high possibility of just running them until they can't break even and just drop out of this mining thing because it's not worth the risk.

Nobody can give a good prediction on this, as the parameters to calculate it are largely unknown.

A typical lifetime for a miner has been around 1 year , which is mainly due to high historical efficiency increases.

Current generation Spondoolies miners could proove to be a reliable backbone of the blockchain for over 1 year, if difficulty growth decreases as expected and / or bitcoin value increases.

It is also likely that August batch machines will be profitable.

[Biodom]

Nobody can give a good prediction on this, as the parameters to calculate it are largely unknown.

A typical lifetime for a miner has been around 1 year , which is mainly due to high historical efficiency increases.

Current generation Spondoolies miners could proove to be a reliable backbone of the blockchain for over 1 year, if difficulty growth decreases as expected and / or bitcoin value increases.

they cannot be a backbone because it is a small percentage of the network currently and in the near future.

[Collider]

they cannot be a backbone because it is a small percentage of the network currently and in the near future.

A very small backbone like an atlas (C1) then.

It remains to be seen whether spondoolies will be able to increase volume as (likely) planned (chip sales might add a good chunk to that).

[Biodom]

they cannot be a backbone because it is a small percentage of the network currently and in the near future.

A very small backbone like an atlas (C1) then.

It remains to be seen whether spondoolies will be able to increase volume as planned (chip sales might help here).

yes, fair comparison-I see that someone here knows anatomy  

[Collider]

they cannot be a backbone because it is a small percentage of the network currently and in the near future.

A very small backbone like an atlas (C1) then.

It remains to be seen whether spondoolies will be able to increase volume as planned (chip sales might help here).

yes, better than the axis (C2)-I see that someone here knows anatomy  

Because there is no corpus, so it is technically the smallest backbone.

Spondoolies miners seem very well-engineered and reliability is certainly important when speaking of longevity.

Economy of scale aswell as the huge importance of geographical position of your mining facility (as it relates to electricity prices)
will hopefully help the next deployment of spondoolies next gen equipment and customers to see even better ROI numbers in the not to distant future,
but for now the sp30 and sp31 seems like a very solid solution.

[wissam]

@Biodom: Any idea on how long the units will ROI and the actual life of the units to begin with? If difficulty continues to rise the way they are then how long approx before the machines can't even pay for their own hosting you think if hosting is $270 a month per unit? I'm considering the high possibility of just running them until they can't break even and just drop out of this mining thing because it's not worth the risk.

Nobody can give a good prediction on this, as the parameters to calculate it are largely unknown.

A typical lifetime for a miner has been around 1 year , which is mainly due to high historical efficiency increases.

Current generation Spondoolies miners could proove to be a reliable backbone of the blockchain for over 1 year, if difficulty growth decreases as expected and / or bitcoin value increases.

It is also likely that August batch machines will be profitable.

I guess the gamble to get your money back is generate BTC and save them for when and if the rate goes up. If it doesn't and it goes down then we're just screwed all over again. If the rate goes up then the machines will also still be profitable and will run longer since the BTC can be exchanged for more USD. Let's all hope that it goes up to about $750-$850 by end of year so that we can exit with our money back at least. Congrats SP you got yourself some good money at our gamble and expense.

[Syke]

@Biodom: Any idea on how long the units will ROI and the actual life of the units to begin with? If difficulty continues to rise the way they are then how long approx before the machines can't even pay for their own hosting you think if hosting is $270 a month per unit? I'm considering the high possibility of just running them until they can't break even and just drop out of this mining thing because it's not worth the risk.

At the current exchange rate, difficulty can go up about 5x before your costs equal your income. I'd estimate that'll be in about 1 year.

I don't know the specifics of your order, but here is my best guess:

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=23844670039&dcosts=4200&diff_mincrease=10&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=4500000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=506.17&dpowcon=3000&btcusd_mincrease=0&pcost=0.125&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=1&action=calc

[Collider]

I guess the gamble to get your money back is generate BTC and save them for when and if the rate goes up. If it doesn't and it goes down then we're just screwed all over again. If the rate goes up then the machines will also still be profitable and will run longer since the BTC can be exchanged for more USD. Let's all hope that it goes up to about $750-$850 by end of year so that we can exit with our money back at least. Congrats SP you got yourself some good money at our gamble and expense.

This is essentially what every hardware manufacturer does, spondoolies treats their customers quite fairly (and I know no better company in regards to this).

You cannot make spondoolies responsible for the way bitcoin mining (and the whole bitcoin ecosystem by extension) works.


If you are so angry about this, I would have liked to see your forum comments had you gone with BFL, or companies that didn´t deliver on their promises at all.

[faraway]

I don't see how ROI on the miners can be achieved if the difficulty increases so fast before the miners can even get to us and make any respectable $$$. Looks like our only hope is if the BTC to USD rate goes up and that's not a gamble anyone should be taking with their money, and on the other hand if BTC to USD drops then you can see how the people mining are the ones that are screwed even further here...

Personally I don't believe the cost of the hardware itself is justified, it's too expensive and the hardware manufacturers keep the buyers thinking that at current mining difficulty and rate they will get their money back in 3 months, but that is not true.

When I purchased the miners in July 24 or so the difficulty was about 17.34G at a BTC to USD rate of $650 expecting to get a decent return, now I still don't have my miners and I have to wait another 1 month, have spent $125,900 USD to Spondoolies, difficulty is now at 23.84G at a BTC to USD rate of $500. By the time I get my miners up and working the difficulty will be about 30.00G if not more and even if the rate stays at $500 I'm basically still screwed because the miners will probably not make their money back before they out live their useful life.

Everyone better think well and hard before buying mining equipment on pre-order with 2 months waiting time, never again. I hope I can get my money back by running my 29 x SP30 miners until they end up in the bin by January or February 2015...

Mining Hardware producers like Spondoolies and the rest are pretty much safe. We are the ones worried about getting our money back while they sell us expensive hardware on pre-order.

Spondoolies cannot guarantee positive ROI-nobody can. You took a large risk all at once and it MIGHT still work out, but it is better to spread the risk over time, in my opinion.

You are right the risk is high, and depends highly too on the J/GH that we can have with the latest chips; The hashrate can be 'diluted' quickly with future products.

[BitcoinPappi]

I guess the gamble to get your money back is generate BTC and save them for when and if the rate goes up. If it doesn't and it goes down then we're just screwed all over again. If the rate goes up then the machines will also still be profitable and will run longer since the BTC can be exchanged for more USD. Let's all hope that it goes up to about $750-$850 by end of year so that we can exit with our money back at least. Congrats SP you got yourself some good money at our gamble and expense.

This is essentially what every hardware manufacturer does, spondoolies treats their customers quite fairly (and I know no better company in regards to this).

You cannot make spondoolies responsible for the way bitcoin mining (and the whole bitcoin ecosystem by extension) works.


If you are so angry about this, I would have liked to see your forum comments had you gone with BFL, or companies that didn´t deliver on their promises at all.

+1  

At the end of the day we all took the risk. Mine with the hardware and cover your expenses then save the generated BTC. The money invested in your farm should be seen as more of a long term investment.

Once you reach ROI or break even on your farm you will be able to add to it and thus benefit from the compounding effect since you will not be starting from scratch then.

[s1gs3gv]

Spondoolies produces a quality product though

high quality slow corners

~L)L~

[zvisha]

New experimental SP30 version available - should improve your hash rate slightly.
Don't upgrade remotely when there is no-one near your miner because power cycle needed after reboot in about 10%-20% of cases. This issue will be resolved soon.

If you see any problems roll back and let me know

[s1gs3gv]

The money invested in your farm should be seen as more of a long term investment.

Long term investment in something whose value is more likely to depreciate to $100 / BTC than appreciate to $1200

~L)L~

[bitcoiner23]

New experimental SP30 version available - should improve your hash rate slightly.
Don't upgrade remotely when there is no-one near your miner because power cycle needed after reboot in about 10%-20% of cases. This issue will be resolved soon.

If you see any problems roll back and let me know

Do you update our hosted (in your DC) miners or do we get a remote access to them?

[wh00per]

The money invested in your farm should be seen as more of a long term investment.

Long term investment in something whose value is more likely to depreciate to $100 / BTC than appreciate to $1200

~L)L~

One should invest in a mining farm only as a hobby. Good investments are in infrastructure or hardware which can be reused for other purposes than mining.

If you have enough juice to build a data center and host other people's miners, if mining goes away, the place is good to host anything since you pay for the energy as you use it. The initial investment in transformers, cooling systems, racks etc .. is a good one.

[brontosaurus]

The Bitfury chip may be able to run at 0.38 JOULES/GH, not watts/GH, it's a measure of energy, not power, (just another little detail which shows up your lack of knowledge) and their chip runs in a mode call Sub Threshold where is sacrifices speed for lower energy per GH by using a lower supply voltage than normal. I'm sure that the ST guys and any other competent designers will confirm that their chips could run at much lower J/GH figures if they ramp down the voltage.

The trouble is with this scenario - and read this carefully here because you might have considerable difficulty in understanding it - is that the lower voltage makes the chip run slower, a lot slower. To get the same number of GH/second as a full voltage chip you need more chips, thus making the advantage of low energy/GH useless.

Did I say you should expect more hashrate when undervolting/underclocking? I thought that much was assumed. Does the lowered hashrate change the fact that a 55nm chip is still the most efficient chip to date?

It's amusing that you insult my lack of knowledge and then suggest that there is a difference between measuring w/gh and j/gh. 1 W(J/s)/GH = 1 J/s/GH.

You say the reason you want to know about compensation is so you can make informed decisions about whether to buy from ST in the future. This is rubbish, you simply want to make trouble for a competitor in whatever way you can, but you wrap it up in 'concerns' and criticism to try to get the community wound up.

So just because I own a very small amount of AM shares, my opinion is automatically void because obviously I'm a shill? If looked at my posts you would find I support plenty of companies which are not AM. I've said it before and will say it again, I would support SPtech if they would just drop the preorders.

I'm not lying when I say I would buy from SPtech in the future. They have the best support and great hardware. But at current prices there is no chance.

You really should give this up before you embarrass yourself further. You made a statement designed to demean the ST chip against a competitors without explaining the tech behind the apparent 'better' performance from the latter. That's not what good engineers do, they can only compare two devices by giving them the same operating conditions or by explaining how results come about from testing. Lower power consumption does not equate to higher efficiency, I don't have the motivation to explain it to you, so you'll have to work it out for yourself.

As for W/GH and J/GH, they are NOT the same. I would  gladly explain to you if I thought you might be capable of understanding what I said, but you clearly won't. Watts are a measure of power, Joules of energy. They are NOT the same, although again it's amusing that you think you can argue that they are.

I have no interest in what you buy of from whom but I'll be damned if I'll sit back and watch amateurs use misinformation to try to put down the technology of good companies that might pose a threat to their interests. I've read quite a lot of your comments about several companies, not much constructive criticism or support in there, is there? Not a lot of criticism of AM either, funnily enough, but I guess you feel you don't have to as they're going to 'crush' the competition, eh? I have the distinct feeling that you're going to regret ever having said that.

From now on, why don't you leave the technical stuff to the grown ups and stick to what you do best - entertainment?

While I'm writing can I also remind you that you haven't as yet done the ROI comparison between the AM solution and the SP30 I suggested? I'd really love to see it and I'll bet a lot of other would too, so get busy.

To the Spondoolies people, sorry for taking up space in your thread. I'm sure you have a lot on your plate at the moment but what you don't need is opportunists using this situation to push their own agendas.

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

S-T: So are there mounting ears included with SP30?

Forum members: What are your favorite pools you are using atm for you SP30s despite GHash.IO and why?