[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[NotFuzzyWarm]

https://medium.com/@vcorem/the-real-savings-from-asicboost-to-bitmaintech-ff265c2d305b

Hey Guy!

Please post how you arrived at "15% power savings". What are the components of the practical loss versus theoretical gain? How much worse is the highest achievable overclock or lowest achievable undervolt? How much worse is the useable manufacturing yield?

Is rather what I was thinking about.

Ok, AB allows for somewhat faster processing of a possible hash by being able to internally come up with a new hash to work on vs getting new work from a pool/server right?

But - since most of the power is consumed when the ASICs actually clock to crunch the numbers, where does energy saving come in? When they are twiddling their thumbs waiting for new work power consumption drops quite a bit. so I would think it rather evens out, no?

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[2112]

Ok, AB allows for somewhat faster processing of a possible hash by being able to internally come up with a new hash to work on vs getting new work from a pool/server right?

But - since most of the power is consumed when the ASICs actually clock to crunch the numbers, where does energy saving come in? When they are twiddling their thumbs waiting for new work power consumption drops quite a bit. so I would think it rather evens out, no?

ASICBOOST whitepaper computes savings purely by counting one-bit logical operations (gates) in a purely combinatorial (fully unrolled) implementation. That's how they arrived at their numbers:

	Number of colliding work items	1	2	4	5	8	16
	Gain in percent	0.00	12.50	18.75	20.00	21.9	23.4

I have no non-bullshit information about any actual implementation. I presume that in a pure-ASICBOOST chip the savings would come from less combinatorial logic. In a mixed, switchable chip (that can mine both raw and boosted) the power savings would come from disabling clock on a portion of circuitry that computes terms that are common under boosting.

Edit: added table formatting

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Bitmain's variant of ASICBoost https://www.google.com/patents/CN105245327A?cl=en
And yer right. The abstract mentions disabling a part of the logic during some operations. Aside from that is wayyyy beyond my depth.

[-ck]

https://medium.com/@vcorem/the-real-savings-from-asicboost-to-bitmaintech-ff265c2d305b

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.

[Guy Corem]

https://medium.com/@vcorem/the-real-savings-from-asicboost-to-bitmaintech-ff265c2d305b

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.

They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.

[-ck]

https://medium.com/@vcorem/the-real-savings-from-asicboost-to-bitmaintech-ff265c2d305b

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.

They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.

Which makes their violent reaction to a BIP proposal that makes asicboost not work somewhat baffling. I guess they were more objecting to the intent in the move's aggression rather than the actual BIP, but it made most of the community convinced they were using it covertly.

[Guy Corem]

https://medium.com/@vcorem/the-real-savings-from-asicboost-to-bitmaintech-ff265c2d305b

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.

They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.

Which makes their violent reaction to a BIP proposal that makes asicboost not work somewhat baffling. I guess they were more objecting to the intent in the move's aggression rather than the actual BIP, but it made most of the community convinced they were using it covertly.

Try to read the BIP proposal from their perspective. They distrust and dislike the author. He makes bogus inflated claims. The entire community believes they hold unfair advantage.
I hardly blame them. Yes, their PR is awful.

[klondike_bar]

https://medium.com/@vcorem/the-real-savings-from-asicboost-to-bitmaintech-ff265c2d305b

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.

They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.

Which makes their violent reaction to a BIP proposal that makes asicboost not work somewhat baffling. I guess they were more objecting to the intent in the move's aggression rather than the actual BIP, but it made most of the community convinced they were using it covertly.

so let me understand: asicboost essentially is an added logicgate at chiplevel that determines whether a specific nonce is worth hashing, and if not, the chip doesnt do any other work for that cycle (hence the savings). So its not any faster at mining, it just saves some power??

if thats the case, it actually serves to decentralize mining by making minimal savings for the big (cheap-power) miners but significant savings for smaller miners who have more expensive electricity. ie: someone paying $0.03/kwh saves maybe $5/month, while someone paying $0.10/kwh saves $15/month

[Guy Corem]

https://medium.com/@vcorem/the-real-savings-from-asicboost-to-bitmaintech-ff265c2d305b

Thanks for that Guy. I wasn't convinced they were using it anyway but that adds much useful data.

They are not. They didn't even know about the covert method Gmaxwell found out until he published.
They did careful analysis afterwards of what needed, and got to the conclusion that they will need to tapeout custom 130nm and add it to the miner board to support this method.

Which makes their violent reaction to a BIP proposal that makes asicboost not work somewhat baffling. I guess they were more objecting to the intent in the move's aggression rather than the actual BIP, but it made most of the community convinced they were using it covertly.

so let me understand: asicboost essentially is an added logicgate at chiplevel that determines whether a specific nonce is worth hashing, and if not, the chip doesnt do any other work for that cycle (hence the savings). So its not any faster at mining, it just saves some power??

if thats the case, it actually serves to decentralize mining by making minimal savings for the big (cheap-power) miners but significant savings for smaller miners who have more expensive electricity. ie: someone paying $0.03/kwh saves maybe $5/month, while someone paying $0.10/kwh saves $15/month

No, your description of AB is completely wrong.
Please research online, there are enough resources these days.

[Guy Corem]

Another interesting proposal is Cuckoo hash by John Tromp:
https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo

I have been told that an attack has been found on Cuckoo hash recently (trading memory for more work).
I didn't look into it.

[Guy Corem]

PSA:
We released the following miners only when we were operational: SP10, SP20, SP30, SP31 and SP35.
If you see anything else offered online, it's a scam.
We designed but never completed the SP50.

[HagssFIN]

PSA:
We released the following miners only when we were operational: SP10, SP20, SP30, SP31 and SP35.
If you see anything else offered online, it's a scam.
We designed but never completed the SP50.

What about the SP45 Newton 16 Th/s miner?
http://spondoolies-tech.co/products/sp45-newton-shipping-from-stock.html

edit: I guess this was a scam as well?
Because your domain use to be http://www.spondoolies-tech.com and not the one above?

[Guy Corem]

PSA:
We released the following miners only when we were operational: SP10, SP20, SP30, SP31 and SP35.
If you see anything else offered online, it's a scam.
We designed but never completed the SP50.

What about the SP45 Newton 16 Th/s miner?
http://spondoolies-tech.co/products/sp45-newton-shipping-from-stock.html

edit: I guess this was a scam as well?
Because your domain use to be http://www.spondoolies-tech.com and not the one above?

It's a scam and scam site

[jborkl]

I enjoyed the mining rigs while they were around! lost track of what has been going around here

[Zeta0S]

I still mis Spondoolies-Tech, I wish there miners where still whit us. 
Spondoolies-Tech Where well build quality miners I ask my self what went wrong


BitmainTech is now (almost) allown and that is not good at all.

[edgar]

I still mis Spondoolies-Tech, I wish there miners where still whit us.  
Spondoolies-Tech Where well build quality miners I ask my self what went wrong


BitmainTech is now (almost) allown and that is not good at all.

no, its fine.

we've been assured that the rampant dishonesty, delayed shipping, dusty/rusty rigs  & corner cutting was all pure coincidence and in no way intentional on the part of bitmain or any of his current and/or future business associates.

haven't we, guy...

[Unacceptable]

I still mis Spondoolies-Tech, I wish there miners where still whit us. 
Spondoolies-Tech Where well build quality miners I ask my self what went wrong


BitmainTech is now (almost) allown and that is not good at all.

no, its fine.

we've been assured that the rampant dishonesty & corner cutting was a pure coincidence and in no way intentional on the part of bitmain or any of his current and/or future business associates.

   It makes little difference...ASIC mining at home is mostly over so Bitmain being a monopoly has little meaning....

There are other whales mining away & between them all,they will take Bitcoin where THEY want it to go...you little folks have no voice in the matter anymore 

[BitcoinPSU]

PSA:
We released the following miners only when we were operational: SP10, SP20, SP30, SP31 and SP35.
If you see anything else offered online, it's a scam.
We designed but never completed the SP50.

What about the SP45 Newton 16 Th/s miner?
http://spondoolies-tech.co/products/sp45-newton-shipping-from-stock.html

edit: I guess this was a scam as well?
Because your domain use to be http://www.spondoolies-tech.com and not the one above?

It's a scam and scam site

Also check the image, they mirrored the front, but forgot to mirror the names of the ports back

[Guy Corem]

Congratulations to LTC for what appears to be an agreed upon resolution to the conflict: https://medium.com/@Litecoinchina/litecoin-global-roundtable-resolution-001-2017-c67b729bc06d

[-ck]

Congratulations to LTC for what appears to be an agreed upon resolution to the conflict: https://medium.com/@Litecoinchina/litecoin-global-roundtable-resolution-001-2017-c67b729bc06d

Well this is 'offtopic' for this thread but since it's your thread you can take it whichever direction you want.

Bitmain's on that list? Did Jihan pull his head out of his arse and realise he was one person against the rest of the world at last? Now if only he'd do the same thing for bitcoin - but then he'll argue the only reason he agreed on the ltc roundtable was because they agreed to a block size increase when they need it which is laughable since ltc has almost completely empty blocks and may never need it. Oh well, I'll reserve further discussion for bitcoin/