1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[bulanula]

I think it is best to keep this thread on topic.

I can hardly await the first deliveries of the unicorn. Hopefully somebody pulls out the chips so we can see what is behind God's creation .

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[Epoch]

Maybe we should try and keep this thread on topic for those who actually have skin in the game... 

Now that BFL has left the building ('chased out', perhaps being more accurate), and no one yet has a Single to play with, there isn't much else that can be said other than speculation. I'd rather not be wading through this noise, but I'm not surprised at all these off-topic posts. Let's (myself included) try to keep them to a minimum as a courtesy to the people waiting for real information.

Within 2 weeks BFL should have their new batch of updated boards and then we'll actually have something relevant to discuss.

[legolouman]

BFL once said that they wouldn't ship until capacity increased. They won't 'ship' until they've made enough money to happily disappear?

[Epoch]

BFL once said that they wouldn't ship until capacity increased. They won't 'ship' until they've made enough money to happily disappear?

I think you are taking the comment out of context. I assume the message you are referring to is this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53530.msg662295#msg662295

All BFL says is "it's our goal to reduce lead time as volume increases." Nothing about not shipping until capacity increases.

A more recent post by BFL, and the most recent on the subject, is this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53530.msg662272#msg662272

The relevant part being where BFL says "We're currently scheduled for initial pre-order purchases to be delivered in January." There is no news, either from BFL or forum members who actually have orders, that indicate a delivery estimate beyond January.

[DeathAndTaxes]

The relevant part being where BFL says "We're currently scheduled for initial pre-order purchases to be delivered in January." There is no news, either from BFL or forum members who actually have orders, that indicate a delivery estimate beyond January.

Well there is no firm delivery estimate period.  If you buy one today the order page says 4-6 weeks which would be mid February.

[Epoch]

The relevant part being where BFL says "We're currently scheduled for initial pre-order purchases to be delivered in January." There is no news, either from BFL or forum members who actually have orders, that indicate a delivery estimate beyond January.

Well there is no firm delivery estimate period.  If you buy one today the order page says 4-6 weeks which would be mid February.

True, but I'm more interested in the people who already have orders in. @jddebug, for example, posted just a few days ago:

I ordered my singles middle of November. I came across this or actually the previous thread about a week later and got very concerned about it possibly being a scam. I decided to ride it out and wait and see.

BFL has kept in touch with me or at least they reply to my emails whenever I have contacted them. I'm currently told that I can expect shipment third week of January. (Originally delivery would have been about right now)

[ZedZedNova]

Maybe we should try and keep this thread on topic for those who actually have skin in the game... 

I'm actually interested in getting an FPGA miner which is why I'm here. The BFL single seems interesting. The question now is do I wait (and for how long) for BFL, or get one of the existing designs which are actually shipping.

The draw for me is that I do not have any existing hardware that I can permanently use for mining, and at this point in time I'm not inclined to go buy the infrastructure to support GPU mining.

- Zed

[jddebug]

I have plenty of "Skin" in this as you can see below.

One thing to notice is the PS. at the end of the below email (I changes the @ symbols and bolded the PS). I feel I was well informed that this could be a several month wait although in other (previous) emails they were more optimistic. These were all before the demonstration btw. The posters that have been so critical have had numerous valid concerns that have made me sweat a bit. I hope to be able to report back later this month and tell you all how great they are.

If they don't deliver: It will hurt but I will recover and I'll be far more pessimistic in the future.

If they do deliver and for whatever reason I think they will: I have a rather good rig with my investment returned in about 4 months at current prices. After that its just electricity and these are so much better than the other options I was considering even with the ramp up in wattage. I live in Alaska so those extra watts won't be a total waste anyway. Its -7F -22C here in Anchorage as I post this.

From:    BFLabs <sonny(at)butterflylabs.com>
Subject:    Re: New submission from Pre-Order Form
Date:    November 16, 2011 3:06:15 PM AKST

Thank you for your order.

You are now registered for delivery of 10 Pre-Order units of our BitForce SHA256 Single product.

Completing your order:

You have chosen to pay via PayPal.  I've just sent a PayPal invoice to this email address for the order amount of $5,008.00.  Please be aware that we can only ship to PayPal customers at their PayPal verified address.  If the shipping address you gave is not your PayPal verified address, please supply the correct one.

Our PayPal corporate account email is office(at)butterflylabs.com

Once payment has been received, I'll respond with final confirmation of your order.

Once again, thank you for your purchase and interest in our company.

Kind regards,
Sonny K
BF Labs Inc.

PS.  Please properly consider the 4-8 week delivery time before completing your order.

[jamesg]

I have plenty of "Skin" in this as you can see below.

One thing to notice is the PS. at the end of the below email (I changes the @ symbols and bolded the PS). I feel I was well informed that this could be a several month wait although in other (previous) emails they were more optimistic. These were all before the demonstration btw. The posters that have been so critical have had numerous valid concerns that have made me sweat a bit. I hope to be able to report back later this month and tell you all how great they are.

If they don't deliver: It will hurt but I will recover and I'll be far more pessimistic in the future.

If they do deliver and for whatever reason I think they will: I have a rather good rig with my investment returned in about 4 months at current prices. After that its just electricity and these are so much better than the other options I was considering even with the ramp up in wattage. I live in Alaska so those extra watts won't be a total waste anyway. Its -7F -22C here in Anchorage as I post this.

From:    BFLabs <sonny(at)butterflylabs.com>
Subject:    Re: New submission from Pre-Order Form
Date:    November 16, 2011 3:06:15 PM AKST

Thank you for your order.

You are now registered for delivery of 10 Pre-Order units of our BitForce SHA256 Single product.

Completing your order:

You have chosen to pay via PayPal.  I've just sent a PayPal invoice to this email address for the order amount of $5,008.00.  Please be aware that we can only ship to PayPal customers at their PayPal verified address.  If the shipping address you gave is not your PayPal verified address, please supply the correct one.

Our PayPal corporate account email is office(at)butterflylabs.com

Once payment has been received, I'll respond with final confirmation of your order.

Once again, thank you for your purchase and interest in our company.

Kind regards,
Sonny K
BF Labs Inc.

PS.  Please properly consider the 4-8 week delivery time before completing your order.

+1 for having skin in the game.

[bulanula]

I guess if people are buying 10 singles and hand them 5k the BFL Labs people might find a fool willing to buy the rig box as well for 25k. Then they can happily disappear like many others before.

[rjk]

I guess if people are buying 10 singles and hand them 5k the BFL Labs people might find a fool willing to buy the rig box as well for 25k. Then they can happily disappear like many others before.

Or, they might even deliver something awesome. Hell, you never really know at this point.

[jamesg]

I guess if people are buying 10 singles and hand them 5k the BFL Labs people might find a fool willing to buy the rig box as well for 25k. Then they can happily disappear like many others before.

Here's a suggestion. If YOU have skin in the game, reply to the email from Sonny and ASK him when your delivery date will be, what production run you are in, etc. It's pretty simple idea. If you don't like the answers you get, cancel your order and ask for a refund.

I have done all these things and am quite pleased with both BFL's responsiveness and their answers.

[jddebug]

I guess if people are buying 10 singles and hand them 5k the BFL Labs people might find a fool willing to buy the rig box as well for 25k. Then they can happily disappear like many others before.

Here's a suggestion. If YOU have skin in the game, reply to the email from Sonny and ASK him when your delivery date will be, what production run you are in, etc. It's pretty simple idea. If you don't like the answers you get, cancel your order and ask for a refund.

I have done all these things and am quite pleased with both BFL's responsiveness and their answers.

+1 for thinking like an investor.

While I admit I'm waiting for my singles and getting them running before I will order the rig box, as soon as they are running I will likely get my order in for it too.

I have many successful investments. None have been a sure thing. If I didn't ever take a chance I wouldn't enjoy the life I now have.

No one should suggest those of us who are in the game are fools. I for one am no fool. Even if they don't deliver that wouldn't change that. Its a calculated risk.

[O_Shovah]

Hello,
to add some math to this disscussion i would like to advertise my new

"Bitcoin mine or invest spreadsheet & mining rig comparison spreadsheet"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56475.new#new

Please use it to find your very own answer about how your minig rig will perform.

I hope it is helpfull to you all

[O_Shovah]

The links to the files have been reapired to dropbox

[rjk]

Hello,
to add some math to this disscussion i would like to advertise my new

"Bitcoin mine or invest spreadsheet & mining rig comparison spreadsheet"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56475.new#new

Please use it to find your very own answer about how your minig rig will perform.

I hope it is helpfull to you all

For simpler profitability calculations, my favorite calculator is http://bitcoinma.appspot.com/, coded by nmat. Works like a champ.

[bulanula]

Any news for BFL

I think I am going to need some Kleenex when a unit is actually delivered and we get to see what is under the hood

[jamesg]

Any news for BFL

As I said before, you should email BFL directly if you would like information on your order.

[fred0]

Any news for BFL

I think I am going to need some Kleenex when a unit is actually delivered and we get to see what is under the hood

If you want to know whats under the heatsink, you are going to have to order one.  There is no way in hell I am going to remove the heatsink on any of mine.

[jddebug]

Any news for BFL

I think I am going to need some Kleenex when a unit is actually delivered and we get to see what is under the hood

If you want to know whats under the heatsink, you are going to have to order one.  There is no way in hell I am going to remove the heatsink on any of mine.

Me either. I do not care whats under it as long as it works.