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Author Topic: A Resource Based Economy  (Read 261214 times)
RealBitcoin
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October 10, 2015, 06:39:04 PM
 #2141


Stop being a professional troll. You aren't fooling anyone.

Sorry but this collectivist mindsent that is poisoning us for 300 years is just not going to move humanity forward.

In the past 300 years with the collectivism we have been enslaved more than any middle age serf could have imagined.

What we need is a free society with free market, not a totalitarian "resource based" system.


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October 10, 2015, 07:21:57 PM
 #2142


Stop being a professional troll. You aren't fooling anyone.

Sorry but this collectivist mindsent that is poisoning us for 300 years is just not going to move humanity forward.

In the past 300 years with the collectivism we have been enslaved more than any middle age serf could have imagined.

What we need is a free society with free market, not a totalitarian "resource based" system.



But, is a market really viable in a society where machines can make a surplus of a lot of stuff? is it possible to have a market when most jobs are just automated and most people simply "aren't needed"?

Well i'll tell you something, im not sure about it... and im a proposal for free market myself, but I think at some point in the future, it will make no sense. Maybe in 100, 1000 years, I don't care, it will eventually make no sense.

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October 10, 2015, 07:27:44 PM
 #2143


But, is a market really viable in a society where machines can make a surplus of a lot of stuff? is it possible to have a market when most jobs are just automated and most people simply "aren't needed"?

Well i'll tell you something, im not sure about it... and im a proposal for free market myself, but I think at some point in the future, it will make no sense. Maybe in 100, 1000 years, I don't care, it will eventually make no sense.

Yes because trading will always exist, and has always existed, since the beginning of the universe.

When you inhale air you trade your CO2 to the plants, and the plants give in return O2.

Not all trades are commercial, but trading will always be present. And for a trade you will always need a market, so the best and most efficient form is a free market, not a controlled zombie market.

Otherwise lets put trading tariffs and regulations on the plants O2 trade, and lets make the plants pay income tax Smiley

-------------------------------------

Trust me free market in its core will always be needed, even in the soviet union you could trade basic things, you just couldnt had means of productions. Imagine if you could have, people would live better.


Controlled market VS Free market  is like a disabled wheelchair person vs a marathon runner athlete, you just cant compare the two.

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October 10, 2015, 08:46:11 PM
 #2144

Sorry but free market is the way to go: tiny or no regulations, and tiny or no taxes Smiley

Merriam-Webster defines "free market" as

" an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government "

So, accordingly, to you denying the current paradigm to be a free market, in the US. for instance, where has the gov. stepped in and regulated prices for private businesses not subject to US. law?

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October 10, 2015, 08:55:57 PM
 #2145


Stop being a professional troll. You aren't fooling anyone.

Sorry but this collectivist mindsent that is poisoning us for 300 years is just not going to move humanity forward.

In the past 300 years with the collectivism we have been enslaved more than any middle age serf could have imagined.

What we need is a free society with free market, not a totalitarian "resource based" system.



We've never had a collectivist mindset. We've never had global real time collaborative capability. A global human effort to engage in a sustainable and rational economy has never been attempted. Markets have always failed and lead to ruin.

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RealBitcoin
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October 10, 2015, 09:04:18 PM
 #2146

Sorry but free market is the way to go: tiny or no regulations, and tiny or no taxes Smiley

Merriam-Webster defines "free market" as

" an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government "

So, accordingly, to you denying the current paradigm to be a free market, in the US. for instance, where has the gov. stepped in and regulated prices for private businesses not subject to US. law?

I dont understand your question, but the dictionary definition is pretty spot on.

And thus you realize that every market is controlled, because every market is either regulated or taxed, or both. And both the tax & the regulation distorts its price.

Tell me a VAT or (GST) tax doesnt distort the real price of any item? Doesnt the income tax destroy the spending power of the workers, and thus create mal-investments in the economy and tons of worthless bureocrats?

Yes it's not a free market, not by far.

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October 10, 2015, 09:06:13 PM
 #2147


We've never had a collectivist mindset. We've never had global real time collaborative capability. A global human effort to engage in a sustainable and rational economy has never been attempted. Markets have always failed and lead to ruin.

But the free market is collaboration too.

What you try to build will be a top down centralized system (since there is no other way to move resources "for the common good" elseway).

And a centralized system always needs force to keep the subjects in line, and force is violence, so what you are advocating, wont be a peaceful utopia, but rather a tyranical world dictatorship.

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October 10, 2015, 09:53:51 PM
 #2148

Sorry but free market is the way to go: tiny or no regulations, and tiny or no taxes Smiley

Merriam-Webster defines "free market" as

" an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government "

So, accordingly, to you denying the current paradigm to be a free market, in the US. for instance, where has the gov. stepped in and regulated prices for private businesses not subject to US. law?

I dont understand your question, but the dictionary definition is pretty spot on.
And thus you realize that every market is controlled, because every market is either regulated or taxed, or both. And both the tax & the regulation distorts its price.

Tell me a VAT or (GST) tax doesnt distort the real price of any item? Doesnt the income tax destroy the spending power of the workers, and thus create mal-investments in the economy and tons of worthless bureocrats?


The definition clearly states that if prices are not regulated and there is competition, there is a free market. So, according to you, where is the gov. regulating prices?

VAT and GST aren't really regulatory in nature since they are just a percentage added and are uniform; companies still (freely) set price on the underlying commodity.

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October 10, 2015, 10:01:08 PM
 #2149


We've never had a collectivist mindset. We've never had global real time collaborative capability. A global human effort to engage in a sustainable and rational economy has never been attempted. Markets have always failed and lead to ruin.

But the free market is collaboration too.

What you try to build will be a top down centralized system (since there is no other way to move resources "for the common good" elseway).

And a centralized system always needs force to keep the subjects in line, and force is violence, so what you are advocating, wont be a peaceful utopia, but rather a tyranical world dictatorship.

Markets are competitive, not collaborative. That is why there is violence inherent in every market and the states that they create.

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October 10, 2015, 11:48:33 PM
 #2150


But, is a market really viable in a society where machines can make a surplus of a lot of stuff? is it possible to have a market when most jobs are just automated and most people simply "aren't needed"?

Well i'll tell you something, im not sure about it... and im a proposal for free market myself, but I think at some point in the future, it will make no sense. Maybe in 100, 1000 years, I don't care, it will eventually make no sense.

Yes because trading will always exist, and has always existed, since the beginning of the universe.

When you inhale air you trade your CO2 to the plants, and the plants give in return O2.

Not all trades are commercial, but trading will always be present. And for a trade you will always need a market, so the best and most efficient form is a free market, not a controlled zombie market.

Otherwise lets put trading tariffs and regulations on the plants O2 trade, and lets make the plants pay income tax Smiley

-------------------------------------

Trust me free market in its core will always be needed, even in the soviet union you could trade basic things, you just couldnt had means of productions. Imagine if you could have, people would live better.


Controlled market VS Free market  is like a disabled wheelchair person vs a marathon runner athlete, you just cant compare the two.

True, but the point is, when there is a surplus of stuff, you can just use it and send it back to a place that stores all that stuff, I think this is the correct mindset for the future. Using something for free and then giving it back so other people can use it, instead of storing useless shit we only use once.

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October 11, 2015, 08:30:49 AM
 #2151

To transition to a resource based economy the Human Race must become more civilised and more disciplined. We cannot go to this level of economic stature unless we can become higher in consciousness and more caring towards others. This doesn't mean that our creativity should be thwarted, on the contrary I believe a resource based economy will facilitate more creativity and thriving in the Human Family than with the current economic systems at play.

RealBitcoin
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October 11, 2015, 09:28:32 AM
 #2152


The definition clearly states that if prices are not regulated and there is competition, there is a free market. So, according to you, where is the gov. regulating prices?

VAT and GST aren't really regulatory in nature since they are just a percentage added and are uniform; companies still (freely) set price on the underlying commodity.

Yes but we look at the consumer price not the manufacturer. The consumer is buying the item at whatever the government sets to.

If a pair of shoes costs 5$ to manufacture, and the government puts 95$ VAT on it, you pay 100$, how the fuck is that not price control?

Markets are competitive, not collaborative. That is why there is violence inherent in every market and the states that they create.

Sometimes they are competitive, in some cases they are collaborative.

And what is exactly your plan to make the market only collaborative?


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RealBitcoin
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October 11, 2015, 09:31:17 AM
 #2153


True, but the point is, when there is a surplus of stuff, you can just use it and send it back to a place that stores all that stuff, I think this is the correct mindset for the future. Using something for free and then giving it back so other people can use it, instead of storing useless shit we only use once.

That is contrary to human nature.

Human nature is based on hoarding and scarce resources. Whenever somebody find some rare item, he rather hoards it, instead of letting others to use it.

You are trying to change 1 million years old genetic instincts in a few years of "Venus Project" , well good luck with that. You dont understand how humanity's essence works.

Better luck trying your system with another species because with humans it wont work.

__________________________________-

Plus if you would put "income" tax on plants, in the forms of limiting the CO2 plants get, it's not like the plants will go a tax revolt.

However they will create less oxigen for humans, and we will all suffocate. Thats what government regulation does to the economy too.

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October 11, 2015, 09:36:26 AM
 #2154

There is no free market. The banking system is centralized, so it is communistic. Also bitcoin is centralized and communistic.
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October 11, 2015, 10:15:29 AM
 #2155


The definition clearly states that if prices are not regulated and there is competition, there is a free market. So, according to you, where is the gov. regulating prices?

VAT and GST aren't really regulatory in nature since they are just a percentage added and are uniform; companies still (freely) set price on the underlying commodity.

Yes but we look at the consumer price not the manufacturer. The consumer is buying the item at whatever the government sets to.

If a pair of shoes costs 5$ to manufacture, and the government puts 95$ VAT on it, you pay 100$, how the fuck is that not price control?


In my opinion, you are misinterpreting the definition of a "free market". Surely such a high VAT may have an indirect effect on prices, but the manufacturer's price itself is not subject to control. Compare a farmers market where a uniform admission fee is charged but the sellers still set their own price; it's unregulated.

Also, a percentage tax doesn't really affect competition since it subjects everyone to it - competition on equal terms.

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October 11, 2015, 03:04:28 PM
 #2156


Stop being a professional troll. You aren't fooling anyone.

Sorry but this collectivist mindsent that is poisoning us for 300 years is just not going to move humanity forward.

In the past 300 years with the collectivism we have been enslaved more than any middle age serf could have imagined.

What we need is a free society with free market, not a totalitarian "resource based" system.



But, is a market really viable in a society where machines can make a surplus of a lot of stuff? is it possible to have a market when most jobs are just automated and most people simply "aren't needed"?

Well i'll tell you something, im not sure about it... and im a proposal for free market myself, but I think at some point in the future, it will make no sense. Maybe in 100, 1000 years, I don't care, it will eventually make no sense.

Today is not "past 300 years", we do not know about online in 1700s or even in 1950s.

There are too much change which open the other opportunity. That is life.
All rich people will become richer because of their own skill to see "the value of something". property, stock, gold, and.. people (Resouce Based)

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October 11, 2015, 04:51:58 PM
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In my opinion, you are misinterpreting the definition of a "free market". Surely such a high VAT may have an indirect effect on prices, but the manufacturer's price itself is not subject to control. Compare a farmers market where a uniform admission fee is charged but the sellers still set their own price; it's unregulated.

Also, a percentage tax doesn't really affect competition since it subjects everyone to it - competition on equal terms.

No. VAT is meant to control prices.

If the government would not want to control prices then it would not have VAT or tariffs, it would just have 1 type of tax, and that would be it.

The reason why we got VAT,tariffs, income tax, etc is because they want to control the entire economy. That is not a free economy /free market.

Sorry but your logic fails.

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October 11, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
 #2158

Markets are competitive, not collaborative. That is why there is violence inherent in every market and the states that they create.

Sometimes they are competitive, in some cases they are collaborative.

And what is exactly your plan to make the market only collaborative?



Market participants collaborate to the detriment of other market participants by forming cartels and trusts, artificially manipulating prices and erecting barriers to entry by using the state. This is another reason why markets are self destructive.

The plan is to remove the market function entirely. Provide universal access to the infrastructure, goods and services consistent with a highly developed modern life style. Without the pressures of artificial competition for money through labor, we can work together to produce more and better technologies and ideas. By emphasizing the value of collaboration over the destructive values produced by artificial competition, we can significantly reduce the amount of crime and other social problems prevalent in the market driven world today.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
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October 11, 2015, 10:29:22 PM
 #2159


Market participants collaborate to the detriment of other market participants by forming cartels and trusts, artificially manipulating prices and erecting barriers to entry by using the state. This is another reason why markets are self destructive.

The plan is to remove the market function entirely. Provide universal access to the infrastructure, goods and services consistent with a highly developed modern life style. Without the pressures of artificial competition for money through labor, we can work together to produce more and better technologies and ideas. By emphasizing the value of collaboration over the destructive values produced by artificial competition, we can significantly reduce the amount of crime and other social problems prevalent in the market driven world today.

Cartels are formed when there is no competition, almost 100% of the case. Less competition is due to high taxes and regulations.

Artificially manipulated prices? That is called central bank, and its not a free market.

Erecting barriers through the state. But why is the state controlling the economy at all? That should be the first question that comes to your mind.

------------------------

Look a free market is simple, you trade 1 item for another, you want the other item more than yours, and the counterparty wants your item more than his, so when the trade is complete, you are both better off.

How is that not collaboration?

------------------------

Your ideas are nice and fine, but as of now its only a fantasy, and that shall remain, because there is no way to implement it in the current world, because once you give powers to somebody to do so, they will become corrupt, and will use the resources for himself. It's just not going to happen Cheesy

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October 11, 2015, 11:42:51 PM
 #2160

There can be no free market. Humanity cannot become free from reality. The market must create a state to protect itself from reality.

Could you please care to explain this post.

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